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Why is TLAD not as popular as TBOGT?


FanEu7
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Just now, Niobium said:

i would drive even an infernus

Then why did you say that GTA 5 got the ugly supercars? IV's Infernus are just the same as V's Infernus.

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1 hour ago, JaeDan 101 said:

Then why did you say that GTA 5 got the ugly supercars? IV's Infernus are just the same as V's Infernus.

 

i was just trying to make a point that i don't care what i drive as johnny

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universetwisters
4 hours ago, Niobium said:

 

 

i would drive even an infernus as johnny. i don't give a sh*t lol

 

I know this is moot because you blocked me for not liking johnny as much as you do but did you forget you had to for one of stubb’s missions?

 

@Algonquin Assassin Fair points but to me there’s def something interesting about someone who’s preaches loyalty ripping someone off who, despite coming off as sneaky, really didn’t do anything wrong and I believe took Johnnys side in the civil war fiasco

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MiamiViceCity1986
4 hours ago, universetwisters said:

 

@Algonquin Assassin Fair points but to me there’s def something interesting about someone who’s preaches loyalty ripping someone off who, despite coming off as sneaky, really didn’t do anything wrong and I believe took Johnnys side in the civil war fiasco


When Johnny preaches loyalty it’s obvious he means in regards to the Lost brotherhood. Like Johnny or not he stays loyal to the chapter until the very end when scumbags like Brian and Billy sellout. 

 

I like Ray, but sometimes I think he’s held up a bit too high on a pedestal and even a bit overrated like he’s somehow a martyr when really Johnny and Ray barely know each other. 

 

It’s not like Ray took Johnny under his wing and mentored him and then Johnny stabbed him in the back out of spite. Dog eat dog as far a I’m concerned. Like most characters in GTA IV/EFLC Ray’s a pretty shady character and he’s probably ripped off others in the past so being ripped off himself is something that he more than likely had coming to him.

 

EDIT: Ray was the one who stole the diamonds off of Gay Tony. Like I said he’s a shady character so being ripped off after him ripping off others is karma IMO. We’re not exactly talking about a sweet and innocent bible salesman here.

 

 

Edited by Algonquin Assassin
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People are too fixated on Ray vs Johnny when the original argument is that Ray as a character in GTA IV was treated poorly in general.

 

He helps Niko find Bernie and pays him a lot for his services yet Niko hates him for some reason.

He helps Johnny and the Lost with explosives and finding Brian yet they hate him.

He is loyal to Jimmy Peg yet he hates him and gets him killed.

He is a fair boss to Luca and the gang yet they decide to rip him off.

 

So Johnny ripping off Ray isn't the issue, that shouldn't be the argument at all. It's that what did Ray do in the past life to deserve all this sh*t? Only thing scummy about Ray is that, like Vlad, he preys on other people's women. He doesn't like Phil because he is a rival (but never goes as far as to harm him) and that's it, pretty decent compared to GTA standard.

Edited by Ryo256
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MiamiViceCity1986
4 minutes ago, Ryo256 said:

 It's that what did Ray do in the past life to deserve all this sh*t? 


During “Taking In The Trash” Luca mentions that he flipped out when one of his waste management managers held out on paying money and he fed him to a dump truck.

 

I really think he just gives off an untrustworthy vibe which is why he comes up at the short end of the stick by multiple people instead of just one having a beef with him.

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billiejoearmstrong8

Is there even a significant difference in how many people prefer TLAD and how many people prefer TBOGT, especially on here? Both seem fairly well liked on here and when there's polls with them both on it they usually score about the same. Neither game is overly loved or overly hated, seems like a non-issue. 

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billiejoearmstrong8
9 hours ago, Niobium said:

 

 

3) johnny has some voicelines that has him referring to a car as a "cage". "cage" is just biker slang for "car". when jacking a car, sometimes he'll say stuff like "dude the cage is mine!" and sometimes when crashing into another vehicle, he'll say stuff like "the caaaaaage!" and "cagers, man...." johnny's use of biker slang for cars can still help people immerse themselves as a biker, even if they are using a car instead of a bike.

 

 

Am I the only one who finds this extremely cringeworthy? I'd never heard of it before I heard Johnny say it, do bikers really say that?! Cringiest slang term I've ever heard.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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MiamiViceCity1986
7 minutes ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

Is there even a significant difference in how many people prefer TLAD and how many people prefer TBOGT, especially on here? Both seem fairly well liked on here and when there's polls with them both on it they usually score about the same. Neither game is overly loved or overly hated, seems like a non-issue. 


I think TLAD is slightly more popular with the hardcore GTA IV fans. TBOGT seems more popular with non-GTA IV fans.

 

It ends up cancelling out though depending on the thread/poll.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Algonquin Assassin said:


During “Taking In The Trash” Luca mentions that he flipped out when one of his waste management managers held out on paying money and he fed him to a dump truck.

 

I really think he just gives off an untrustworthy vibe which is why he comes up at the short end of the stick by multiple people instead of just one having a beef with him.


Yes I know that part, he is severe with those who cross him which is acceptable BUT even after Luca ripped him off, he didn't approve Niko killing him and the gang. So tell me, should we trust Luca or what the game is actually showing us? Even when it seems like Johnny and Niko might be ripping him off, Ray still gives them the benefit of the doubt, hoping his suspicions are wrong. He is a reasonable person.

Edited by Ryo256
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Ray is less of a scumbag than some others but there is something about his attitude that’s a bit...eh, you know. People ripping off others in Gta is kind of a part of the series, Johnny f*cked himself by doing it but Ray is no good guy.

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MiamiViceCity1986
8 minutes ago, Payne said:

Ray is less of a scumbag than some others but there is something about his attitude that’s a bit...eh, you know. People ripping off others in Gta is kind of a part of the series, Johnny f*cked himself by doing it but Ray is no good guy.


Yeah.

 

He’s not as much of a scumbag compared to other characters, but I’m not going to lie that he left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth on first impression.

 

The couple of good deeds he does hardly make it up.

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Legomanarthur

There's clearly some history between Ray and the people he works with or for, all of them seem to qualify him as a scumbag. Packie, Phil and even Pegorino if I remember correctly all show contempt for Ray, so we clearly have a reason not to fully trust him in spite of his good deeds. But then is it really a good excuse? It depends I guess, maybe Ray was planning on ripping Niko off after seeing that he was in Pegorino's good graces during that last meeting. And maybe he had similar plans with Johnny but he got ripped of first. We'll never really know unfortunately.

Who knows, maybe Rockstar had other plans for Ray. After all we were able to choose between him and Phil in Pest Control at one point. Maybe Rockstar wanted him to come across as a scumbag to the player despite never ripping Niko off, making it a tad more difficult for us to choose between the two.

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MiamiViceCity1986
2 hours ago, Ryo256 said:


Yes I know that part, he is severe with those who cross him which is acceptable BUT even after Luca ripped him off, he didn't approve Niko killing him and the gang. .


In Niko’s defense the only reason he ended up killing Luca and his crew is because he had no choice.

 

They sped off and crashed in Middle Park and Niko was met with a hail of bullets when he got there. Sure Ray was pissed in the heat of the moment, but he didn’t know all the facts that transpired.


Niko could’ve let them get away, but then Ray would’ve thrown a tantrum or he had to defend himself and kill them to get the diamonds back. Damned if you do damned if you don’t it seems.

Edited by Algonquin Assassin
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38 minutes ago, Algonquin Assassin said:


In Niko’s defense the only reason he ended up killing Luca and his crew is because he had no choice.

 

They sped off and crashed in Middle Park and Niko was met with a hail of bullets when he got there. Sure Ray was pissed in the heat of the moment, but he didn’t know all the facts that transpired.


Niko could’ve let them get away, but then Ray would’ve thrown a tantrum or he had to defend himself and kill them to get the diamonds back. Damned if you do damned if you don’t it seems.


I'm not accusing NIko of anything. He did the right thing but my point was that Ray wasn't interested in murdering Luca and his buddies like the story of him and the guy being fed to a dump truck just because he held back money. It shows that it takes a lot to get on Ray's bad side and he is a reasonable patient sort. In fact it did catch me off guard as Niko when he told me that I was simply meant to retrieve the diamonds, not kill Luca and his pals, you would think the average mob boss would want em dead.

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universetwisters
5 hours ago, Algonquin Assassin said:


When Johnny preaches loyalty it’s obvious he means in regards to the Lost brotherhood. Like Johnny or not he stays loyal to the chapter until the very end when scumbags like Brian and Billy sellout. 

 

I like Ray, but sometimes I think he’s held up a bit too high on a pedestal and even a bit overrated like he’s somehow a martyr when really Johnny and Ray barely know each other. 

 

It’s not like Ray took Johnny under his wing and mentored him and then Johnny stabbed him in the back out of spite. Dog eat dog as far a I’m concerned. Like most characters in GTA IV/EFLC Ray’s a pretty shady character and he’s probably ripped off others in the past so being ripped off himself is something that he more than likely had coming to him.

 

EDIT: Ray was the one who stole the diamonds off of Gay Tony. Like I said he’s a shady character so being ripped off after him ripping off others is karma IMO. We’re not exactly talking about a sweet and innocent bible salesman here.

 

 

 

True, but I can't think of any other protagonist who blatantly ripped off any mission giver for no particularly good reason. Johnny did, and it dealt a big blow to the chapter. Kinda makes sense that the second to last mission is titled "Was it worth it?"

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MiamiViceCity1986
5 hours ago, universetwisters said:

 

True, but I can't think of any other protagonist who blatantly ripped off any mission giver for no particularly good reason. Johnny did, and it dealt a big blow to the chapter. Kinda makes sense that the second to last mission is titled "Was it worth it?"

 

I get what you're saying and obviously Johnny ripping  him off played a part in the Lost's downfall, but Johnny never preached "his" loyalty to Ray and went back on that oath. 

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universetwisters
2 minutes ago, Algonquin Assassin said:

 

I get what you're saying and obviously Johnny ripping  him off played a part in the Lost's downfall, but Johnny never preached "his" loyalty to Ray and went back on that oath. 

 

Oktru

 

I guess foresight don’t see that far then, especially in johnnys case. 

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  • 1 month later...

I personally prefer TLAD over TBOGT.There are some things they could have done better,such as adding more bikes and a better variety of them (some Japanese and European cruisers, a few more sports bikes and dirt bikes, maybe some two strokes, etc.), bike customization, different outfits for Johnny, more missions showing Johnny interact with Jim, Terry, Clay, Angus, Jason, Malc and other characters, underground fight club like in TBOGT and some other stuff that would fit the theme,but it's still a great game.

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  • 4 weeks later...
DownInThePMs
Posted (edited)

After a while I'm starting to feel maybe The Lost ripping Ray off was totally in-character for Johnny.

 

Think about it, at that point in the game, The Lost was pretty much decimated and balkanized into several warring factions, and with Brian dead and Billy in prison and possibly turning states and the drug business being the only think keeping them afloat, not to mention an ongoing war with the Angels and a narcotics investigation courtesy of the LCPD, there was pretty much no reason for the Alderney chapter to stay together.

 

This leads to the only option that Johnny, Angus, Jim and the rest of the faction loyal to them that they can take being the law-abiding citizens they were, keep fanning the flames of this fiasco. It was either burn out or spend the rest of their days in a cell for the dope and murder charges.

 

Ripping off Ray was just the final f*ck you to all the employers that used Johnny and the rest of the Alderney chapter only for them to get nothing in return.

 

The only problem I had was the absence of more missions which could help to explain the internal conflicts within the Lost post-Brian's death or exile. I've also never really understood why Johnny would still be leading a large faction of the Lost in V. It makes absolutely no sense.

Edited by DownInThePMs
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RenegadeAngel

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand TLAD. The story is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of psychology most of the situations will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Johnny's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of the story to realise that it's not just funny- it says something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike TLAD truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the depth of Johnny's existential quote  "A brother might stab you in the back, a woman certainly will, but a bike will never let you down", which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Houser's genius depth unfolds itself on their screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂

And yes, by the way, i DO have a TLAD tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎

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this is strange, from the time ive lurked and even since i signed up and checked other gaming forum's tlad is preferred over tbogt, it's story is way better and i always liked the characters, i also really like the sawed off because you can do drivebys with it and it can 1 shot car tanks half the time

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  • 1 month later...
MerclessNoble7
On 1/8/2021 at 8:06 AM, FanEu7 said:

On reddit and other gaming forums it seems like people really love TBOGT and easily prefer it over TLAD (some even prefer it over IV..).

 

I don't get it. TLAD had a much better story and characters and it still had plenty of mission variety too. 

 

I disagree, while TLAD had a lot of fun features like Gang Wars and other activities, the story was very weak for me in terms of other GTA games. I didn't care about Johnny nor the Lost chapter and when I played TBOGT, I felt it was a bit better story then TLAD. As much as I didn't care a lot about Johnny, I still felt they really did him dirty in GTA V and he was a former shell of himself. I'll give you this though, atleast TLAD's story was a tiny bit better then GTA Vs.

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