What's so wrong with GTA V's story/How would you fix it?

[RobeX]

I would like to know and share other people's opinion I have seen a lot of negative discussion towards the narrative of this game.

I personally don't think there is anything really wrong with the story but I would like to share my opinion and hear others

[FanEu7]

Overall the story is good but it has some flaws.

I think the antagonists were rather weak. Steve Haines is fine but doesn't really come close to the likes of Dimitri and Tenpenny. And Devin was just kind of a joke + I barely remember Stretch or that Chinese dude. Madrazo was disappointing too.

 

The story could have used at least a few more serious moments.

 

The FIB story was also too dragged out

[Payne]

It seems to me they just mess around rather than acting like actual criminals. Missions may be alright but it can get messy if you pay attention to the storyline.

[billiejoearmstrong8]

It's just the decision to focus so heavily on government/FIB stuff and only include tiny amounts of organised crime/street crime stuff. They still could've had the same backstory and told the story of Michael and Trevor meeting again with Franklin in the mix and still could've had it revolve around heists, but with cartels/gangs/their own desire for money as the main theme instead of having everything being focused on working for government organisations.

 

It was all there, Franklin and Lamar being Families members and having beef with the Ballas, Michael angering a cartel boss, Trevor being involved in some turf warfare with Aztecas/The Lost/the O'Neils and getting in trouble with the Triads. They could've been doing heists to get out of trouble with gangs and make money for themselves. But they chose to sideline that stuff and make them run around working for the FIB for the majority of the story/missions/heists instead.

 

I don't know how that could be fixed exactly since it's not so much tweaking the story as changing the focus of it. But I wish they'd chosen differently. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by billiejoearmstrong8

[Algonquin Assassin]

Franklin’s introduction should’ve been longer before he started working with Michael. It’s crazy to think it’s only a small handful of missions before they start planning a heist together.

IMO much of the story’s flaws come from break neck pace and barely developing arcs before moving onto the next making them feel insanely rushed.

 

I could write an essay on how I’d fix GTA V’s story, but it’d be fairer to others to give their own ideas instead of just listening to me lecture lol.

 

[billiejoearmstrong8]

One thing that might've helped for an ambitious three protagonist game would've been doubling the number of missions. Simply no way to tell three protagonists' stories sufficiently with "69" (more like 50 if you discount the heist set up "missions" such as buying boiler suits or stealing a trash truck and the assassinations) missions.

Edited January 2, 2021 by billiejoearmstrong8

[FanEu7]

1 hour ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

It's just the decision to focus so heavily on government/FIB stuff and only include tiny amounts of organised crime/street crime stuff. They still could've had the same backstory and told the story of Michael and Trevor meeting again with Franklin in the mix and still could've had it revolve around heists, but with cartels/gangs/their own desire for money as the main theme instead of having everything being focused on working for government organisations.

 

It was all there, Franklin and Lamar being Families members and having beef with the Ballas, Michael angering a cartel boss, Trevor being involved in some turf warfare with Aztecas/The Lost/the O'Neils and getting in trouble with the Triads. They could've been doing heists to get out of trouble with gangs and make money for themselves. But they chose to sideline that stuff and make them run around working for the FIB for the majority of the story/missions/heists instead.

 

I don't know how that could be fixed exactly since it's not so much tweaking the story as changing the focus of it. But I wish they'd chosen differently. 

 

The government organizations focus lead to some fun missions but they definitely went too far with it. Like each time you thought it was over, there was yet another mission with f*cking Steve Haines.

 

I don't really care about repeating the Ballas vs Families conflict or Trevor killing the Lost or hillbilly's but I think Martin Madrazo should have been a more important and threatening antagonist. He had a lot of potential

[billiejoearmstrong8]

15 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

 

The government organizations focus lead to some fun missions but they definitely went too far with it. Like each time you thought it was over, there was yet another mission with f*cking Steve Haines.

 

I don't really care about repeating the Ballas vs Families conflict or Trevor killing the Lost or hillbilly's but I think Martin Madrazo should have been a more important and threatening antagonist. He had a lot of potential

 

Yeah I don't mind when there's a bit of that stuff, there's usually some in every GTA game and it always would've made sense to include some of it with the Michael faking his death/Dave Norton thing. But it was just too much and seems a shame that the focus wasn't more on the crime world and that some potentially good criminal characters were sidelined. I agree on Madrazo and I also think Wei Cheng and Stretch could've been good with more screentime. 

[Americana]

This game, and the story, lacks a lot. I always say that what I miss the most are the emotions. I want the story to be emotional. It doesn't have to be depressing, but something that evokes emotions.

 

That would be 100% possible even with the current plot, but with additional plots. So, for example - why does Michael kill Stretch? Wouldn't it be a good idea for Stretch and his gang to try and kidnap, or attempt to rape Tracey? This would make Michael and Trevor furious, and they could work together with Franklin to eliminate Stretch and his gang.

 

Also, why does Michael work for the government? Well, it would be much better if Steve kidnapped Michael's family - that way Michael would be forced to work with him, wouldn't be able to just kill him, and it would make more sense - also it's much better than the family leaving for almost the whole game. Also, killing Steve would be... much more interesting.

 

Moreover, in my opinion, working for the government wouldn't be that bad, but... Steve is just a joke in the game. I've enjoyed working for IAA in Grand Theft Auto IV, because it was classy. However, FIB in Grand Theft Auto V is just lame and the missions are so f*cking stupid.

 

And so on... and so on...

Edited January 2, 2021 by Americana

[Ryo256]

GTA games have largely been about power fantasy. You can do crime, kill your enemy and get away with it.

GTA V is probably the only exception where most of your crimes are you being forced by FIB rather than you doing something on your own terms. So many characters in this game as minor as the Tennis coach to big shots like Madrazo deserve a bullet but the game won't let you. The story is largely about being an FIB's bitch until you just randomly decide we should kill them because your blackmailers are too busy sabotaging themselves rather than your characters doing any efforts on their own.

 

By the time you gain your freedom, the story is already over.

I suppose a "stupid" game gets a "stupid" story so there is nothing wrong with it but by GTA standard, it is one of the weakest narrative I have ever seen. It also sucks because it does try to put in drama (e.g Michael betraying Trevor) to be like GTA IV and some wacky stuff (e.g Trevor hijacking a military plane with a cropduster) to be like GTA SA but fails to surpass both of them.

 

Also Scouting the Port is a garbage story mission. A tedious slow scripted mission that leads up to a heist that pays nothing, such a disgrace to GTA name.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Ryo256

[Americana]

Also, the last mission, where the dudes kill every single antagonist in the game in the span of one day. I'm sorry, but they could've done that at the beginning of the game. 

 

I think that Grand Theft Auto V is the only Grand Theft Auto game where I don't really have to choose missons, because the game somewhat chooses them for us. Most of the time there's only one marker on the map. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Americana

[FanEu7]

32 minutes ago, Americana said:

This game, and the story, lacks a lot. I always say that what I miss the most are the emotions. I want the story to be emotional. It doesn't have to be depressing, but something that evokes emotions.

 

That would be 100% possible even with the current plot, but with additional plots. So, for example - why does Michael kill Stretch? Wouldn't it be a good idea for Stretch and his gang to try and kidnap, or attempt to rape Tracey? This would make Michael and Trevor furious, and they could work together with Franklin to eliminate Stretch and his gang.

 

Also, why does Michael work for the government? Well, it would be much better if Steve kidnapped Michael's family - that way Michael would be forced to work with him, wouldn't be able to just kill him, and it would make more sense - also it's much better than the family leaving for almost the whole game. Also, killing Steve would be... much more interesting.

 

Moreover, in my opinion, working for the government wouldn't be that bad, but... Steve is just a joke in the game. I've enjoyed working for IAA in Grand Theft Auto IV, because it was classy. However, FIB in Grand Theft Auto V is just lame and the missions are so f*cking stupid.

 

And so on... and so on...

 

I remember the ULP contact in GTA IV making fun of the FIB..turns out he was right. He was way more interesting than Steve Haines

Edited January 2, 2021 by FanEu7

[Ryo256]

1 minute ago, FanEu7 said:

He was way more interesting than Steve Haines

And sadly GTA V gets ULP contact killed in an uninteresting way. Just goes to show the difference between the narrative of V and previous games.

[FanEu7]

Just now, Ryo256 said:

And sadly GTA V gets ULP contact killed in an uninteresting way. Just goes to show the difference between the narrative of V and previous games.

Honestly I don't think GTA V's story is worse than 3D Era GTA stories. It just pales in comparison with GTA IV. GTA SA's story had its own problems after the first arc. Vice City was a bit too simple and just doing property missions in the second half and the others (GTA 3, LCS, VCS) were forgettable.

[Ryo256]

41 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Honestly I don't think GTA V's story is worse than 3D Era GTA stories. It just pales in comparison with GTA IV. GTA SA's story had its own problems after the first arc. Vice City was a bit too simple and just doing property missions in the second half and the others (GTA 3, LCS, VCS) were forgettable.

It depends on what the story is trying to accomplish. Vice City is simple but it gets the job done of you taking over the city. GTA III is similar with the revenge thing. GTA SA is a bit unfocused with CJ's growth but the idea of him working in Los Santos, getting exiled after betrayal and then returns to Los Santos after gaining support from rest of the San Andreas is just fine.

V's issue is.......well what is it trying to accomplish? I don't know actually, Michael's arc of getting with his family and accepting he likes chaos is only thing that is resolved in V's story, everything else is a mess and not compelling at all, not much character development for Trevor or Franklin either. 

Also I might add, GTA V puts its story in the forefront of its gameplay. Other games have good stories for how much focus they were given. GTA V after dragging me through its damn story missions, still did not manage to tell a story better than previous titles? That is disappointing.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Ryo256

[billiejoearmstrong8]

42 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Honestly I don't think GTA V's story is worse than 3D Era GTA stories. It just pales in comparison with GTA IV. GTA SA's story had its own problems after the first arc. Vice City was a bit too simple and just doing property missions in the second half and the others (GTA 3, LCS, VCS) were forgettable.

 

I agree, I think HD era writing/characters/story is just on another level to 3D era in general and I still think GTA V is the second best written GTA after IV for that reason (and that the writing of individual scenes/conversations is extremely high quality). It's why the flaws and wasted potential included in it are so frustrating, it could've been as good as IV. 

[FanEu7]

50 minutes ago, Ryo256 said:

It depends on what the story is trying to accomplish. Vice City is simple but it gets the job done of you taking over the city. GTA III is similar with the revenge thing. GTA SA is a bit unfocused with CJ's growth but the idea of him working in Los Santos, getting exiled after betrayal and then returns to Los Santos after gaining support from rest of the San Andreas is just fine.

V's issue is.......well what is it trying to accomplish? I don't know actually, Michael's arc of getting with his family and accepting he likes chaos is only thing that is resolved in V's story, everything else is a mess and not compelling at all, not much character development for Trevor or Franklin either. 

Also I might add, GTA V puts its story in the forefront of its gameplay. Other games have good stories for how much focus they were given. GTA V after dragging me through its damn story missions, still did not manage to tell a story better than previous titles? That is disappointing.

Michael is kind of the main protagonist of V so his story arcs (with his family, Trevor, FIB, movies etc.) being resolved in a satisfying way is already enough in my opinion. Franklin and Trevor are more like side characters who you can play as but they depend on Michael.

 

Also GTA V definitely focuses on fun gameplay, it has lots of mission variety and action packed over the top missions which are there for the sake of fun (so people don't complain like they did with GTA IV)..much like lots of SA Missions (Toreno and Truth missions especially) were more about gameplay rather than story. Like I don't think stealing a jetpack adds to CJ's arc. I don't see how it sacrifices gameplay for story at all.

 

Also overall in terms of dialogue and character writing GTA V is superior to the 3D Era GTA's imho. I mean like them or not but Michael and Trevor are way more fleshed out and interesting than any 3D era characters

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by FanEu7

[FanEu7]

29 minutes ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

 

I agree, I think HD era writing/characters/story is just on another level to 3D era in general and I still think GTA V is the second best written GTA after IV for that reason (and that the writing of individual scenes/conversations is extremely high quality). It's why the flaws and wasted potential included in it are so frustrating, it could've been as good as IV. 

 

Agreed but I blame the criticism GTA IV got for GTA V's flawed story. Like with the FIB stuff you can notice that a lot of it just there so there are more over the top missions and variety (see missions like Monkey Business) because people complained about GTA IV being too realistic.

 

Or how barely anything is taken seriously (like Bury the hatchet is the only serious mission in GTA V I think) because IV was considered to be too dark. 

 

Its a shame but at least we got a GTA IV & in some ways better) story with RDR2. I don't expect that level of story from any future GTA game  

Edited January 2, 2021 by FanEu7

[Tycek]

I wouldn't use comparison between stories of GTAs from the past and V as an excuse, as I wouldn't say it's good defence line. Stories from 3D GTAs were simple, sometimes even simplistic, but these were fitting for the simpler times. Technology moved forward, characters started looking like humans and we expect something more in return. People were playing Crash Bandicoot on PS One and nobody was saying that game had sh*t story, but in Uncharted or The Last of Us we would like something more interesting that bandicoot fighting with crazy scientist and collecting apples in the meantime. 

 

And If we're talking about fixing GTA V, I'll bite, because I was thinking a bit about it. For the starters I would throw it out almost completely leaving only some of the events and characters. I would also separate stories for each playable character, giving each distinctive antagonist, but making some events intertwined like in GTA IV.

 

- We would be starting as Franklin Clinton (basically what we got now) working along Lamar for Simeon.  

- Gerald is introduced in the early game and he starts drug dealing minigame (similar to the one in CTW) for Franklin

- Story continues normally (with one or two mission added between meeting Michael and pulling down Martin Madrazo's mistress' house) to show more of a relationship between M and F. 

- Jewel Store job happens and Trevor got a mysterious phone call ordering him to turn on TV. Trevor learns about Michael's whereabouts and decides to find him. 

 

This part left mostly unscathed apart from addition of few missions (let's say around 2 for Franklin in the hood and 2 for Micheal and Franklin to slow down their friendship and bit). From this moment everything changes. Heists are excluded from the storyline and these became main side missions for earning a lot of money necessary to buy businesses. Paleto Score, New score regarding bigger bank in the center of LS and Federal Depository score are unlocked after certain moments of the storyline and become available after completing prep list, available via phone and at Lester's place). Trevor's score is completely scrapped. Scores are the points where all characters work together along with other crew members (like in original GTA V).

 

- Michael has to dodge between Madrazo, FIB and Lester, who is always money hungry, while trying to keep his family together at the same moment. FIB mission arc stays as it is, except this whole bullsh*t mission with Mr. K, but it's only one of few from this whole part of the story. Michael thinks Dave will help to get him rid of Madrazo, while at the same Steve Haines is trying to deal with the devil in order to take down other small time gangs (like Marabunta Grande). The main culprit is introduced at the end and it turns out to be Lester, who basically baited tennis coach on Amanda and informed Trevor about Michael's whereabouts in order to force him back into business. He also faked the Brad's letters in order to keep Trevor close, as a trap for Michael. Lester was the mastermind behind all the scores after all, and it was his way of life. To use pawns like Mike to earn a lot of money while himself being clean. Who would think that such a handicapped basement dweller could be the real deal? 

 

- Franklin would be dealing with problems of the hood while trying to be legit businessman as well. I'd see it similarly to Stringer vs Barksdale arc from The Wire (if You haven't see this TV series I totally recommend it to watch). Lamar would be dragging Franklin back wanting him to deal drugs and be real gangsta, despite the fact that these times are long gone, while F would try to be something more. His real antagonist would be Lamar Davis, living in the past and on some hype coming from the glory of the old days. 

 

- Trevor would be dealing with Blaine County issues, fighting with AoD (I would drop the Lost MC completely), O'Neills and Triads. His main antagonist would be Wei Cheng who as it occurs deals with every gang at the same time in order to start a war between them and take whole dealings of Blaine to himself. 

 

Of course everything is in form of early draw, so don't be afraid to point out some nonsenses and inconsistencies. However this is how I see changes of GTA V story, to make it more gripping and interesting in comparison to the mess we have now. 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Tycek

[Ryo256]

44 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Michael is kind of the main protagonist of V so his story arcs (with his family, Trevor, FIB, movies etc.) being resolved in a satisfying way is already enough in my opinion. Franklin and Trevor are more like side characters who you can play as but they depend on Michael.

Based on GTA V's gameplay video, All Michael, Franklin and Trevor are all acknowledged as protagonists. They all deserve to be developed. This is a major flaw for GTA V compared to previous games in my opinion.
 

44 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Also GTA V definitely focuses on fun gameplay, it has lots of mission variety and action packed over the top missions which are there for the sake of fun

I was talking about missions like Scouting the Port, Did Someday say Yoga? Checking the Bank in Paleto bay. Neither GTA IV or 3d era games had that level of missions that only focused on narrative without any action whatsoever. If you are gonna restrict me and sacrifice gameplay to watch a story, the story better be a good one.

 

44 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Also overall in terms of dialogue and character writing GTA V is superior to the 3D Era GTA's imho. I mean like them or not but Michael and Trevor are way more fleshed out and interesting than any 3D era characters

GTA V over-exposes their characters too much and it had the budget to do so. GTA V only beats previous games in these areas because it is newer but more dialogue and character focus doesn't always result in good content. Michael is by far the most push-over character in the story and Trevor by the far the most cringe-y simply because they talk way too much and do little compared to previous protagonists. 3rd era games told a simple story, with straightforward characters and they succeeded in what they were doing. GTA V went for a complex narrative and performed poorly.


 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Ryo256

[FanEu7]

25 minutes ago, Ryo256 said:

Based on GTA V's gameplay video, All Michael, Franklin and Trevor are all acknowledged as protagonists. They all deserve to be developed. This is a major flaw for GTA V compared to previous games in my opinion.
 

I was talking about missions like Scouting the Port, Did Someday say Yoga? Checking the Bank in Paleto bay. Neither GTA IV or 3d era games had that level of missions that only focused on narrative without any action whatsoever. If you are gonna restrict me and sacrifice gameplay to watch a story, the story better be a good one.

 

GTA V over-exposes there characters too much and it had the budget to do. GTA V only beats previous games in these areas because it is newer but more dialogue and character focus doesn't always result in good content. Michael is by far the most push-over character in the story and Trevor by the far the most cringe-y simply because they talk way too much and do little compared to previous protagonists. 3rd era games told a simple story, with straightforward characters and that succeeded in what they were doing. GTA V went for a complex narrative and performed poorly.


 

 

Yeah but its obvious Michael is the main protagonist, the whole story revolves around him. Rockstar never said they would be equal protagonists like in the GTA IV Trilogy (all with their own story). Trevor still gets tons of character focus and is pretty interesting. Franklin being so lame is definitely a flaw though

 

Those missions suck but they are a minority, the majority of GTA V missions are well done and focus on fun first and foremost (lots of variety, action set pieces etc.). The three protagonist angle adds to that since it makes the missions faster paced and the "slow" parts are skipped.

 

That's your opinion. I think you are dumbing them down and Michael &Trevor are among the most compelling protagonists of the series. They are both flawed and their relationship is complex (both have their point). Tommy is more badass but not as fleshed out. And I don't see how CJ wasn't a push over to many of the characters like Sweet, Catalina etc.  At least Michael is more consistently written.  

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by FanEu7

[Ryo256]

1 minute ago, FanEu7 said:

Yeah but its obvious Michael is the main protagonist, the whole story revolves around him.

 

It's only obvious in retrospect, Trevor is included in the prologue just like Michael. And without Trevor, Michael may lose a lot of his background since his entire deal with FIB was to escape Trevor.
 

2 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Rockstar never said they would be equal protagonists like in the GTA IV Trilogy (all with their own story).

Rockstar never said the previous games would have more fleshed out characters either. So should you ignore the lack of fleshed out characters in 3d game era too? Of course not, that's not how things work.

 

3 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Franklin being so lame is definitely a flaw though

Exactly GTA V took a bite it could not swallow. 3d game era do not share this flaw because they had one protagonist which had focus. Those games had reasonable goals that were met.

 

4 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Yeah those missions suck but they are a minority

Actually the "fun" missions have sucky parts too.

Franklin and Lamar is just about driving cars and escaping police.
Complications is largely have going to Michael's house and getting a car which results later in fistfight.
Chop mission is just chasing down a character.
Father/Son involves very little shooting, rest of it just driving around.
Daddy's Little Girl has only one action sequence where you can choose to shoot your chasers.
Friend Request is just about buying clothes, walking around in the IT building, doing an Ads minigame and then watching the guy's head blown off on TV.
Casing the Jewel Store is just looking at the jewelry store.

Fame or Shame is largely just chasing down Lazlow.
Minisub of stealing submarine is just a boring long tedious drive.
I Fought the Law is largely just chasing two fast cars down the highway.
Eye in the sky is largely just going on a helicopter to find a car and then drive it back to airport.
Blitz Play preps is just getting stuff like clothes, masks, truck etc
Hang Ten has nothing except Trevor going berserk and later taking over the strip club.
Pack man, while you get to shoot cops in a spy car, most of it just driving a truck on the freeway.

Cleaning out the Bureau is just tailing a janitor and taking his stuff.
Reuniting the Family, while it is satisfying, it just driving your family around.
Lamar Down is one of my favorite but it involves 7 km long drives twice.

So including the 3 I mentioned and all these 17. That's like 20 missions out of 69. So more than 25% of the game just sucking for me. Can you say the same for previous games?

 

18 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

That's your opinion. I think Michael and Trevor are among the most compelling protagonists of the series. They are both flawed and their relationship is complex (both have their point). 

That's your opinion as well. Michael is acceptable (though people rarely prefer him over any of 3d era protags) but Trevor is not that compelling. They can be argued to be too much flawed.

 

20 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Tommy is more badass but not as fleshed out

That's the thing, he doesn't need to be fleshed out. He just needed to be a badass and so he is. 
 

20 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

And I don't see how CJ wasn't a push over to many of the characters like Sweet, Catalina etc.

CJ's relationship with Sweet is complex (because CJ only shows weakness since he sees some truth in Sweet's words) and for Catalina he just used her to get money. CJ being a pushover is kinda limited since eventually he plans to take out the Syndicate in San Fierro, out-play a rival casino (and can potentially rob through heist) and eventually comes back to Los Santos and claims his place in Groove Street to the point that even Sweet lets him confront Smoke. No such thing for Michael, guy had his family got attacked by Devin and he planned no counter-attack.

CJ grows and even takes action against people are pushing him when he sees the opportunity. This is not the case for Michael, the guy later goes back to work for Madrazo for some reason, his wife is screwed by almost everyone and even gets drugged by his own son, just to accept him back just like that. Can you really tell me that ANY of the previous 3d era protagonist would do that? CJ buried a worker alive just because they called his a sister a hooker.



 

[FanEu7]

1 hour ago, Ryo256 said:

 

It's only obvious in retrospect, Trevor is included in the prologue just like Michael. And without Trevor, Michael may lose a lot of his background since his entire deal with FIB was to escape Trevor.
 

Rockstar never said the previous games would have more fleshed out characters either. So should you ignore the lack of fleshed out characters in 3d game era too? Of course not, that's not how things work.

 

Exactly GTA V took a bite it could not swallow. 3d game era do not share this flaw because they had one protagonist which had focus. Those games had reasonable goals that were met.

 

Actually the "fun" missions have sucky parts too.

Franklin and Lamar is just about driving cars and escaping police.
Complications is largely have going to Michael's house and getting a car which results later in fistfight.
Chop mission is just chasing down a character.
Father/Son involves very little shooting, rest of it just driving around.
Daddy's Little Girl has only one action sequence where you can choose to shoot your chasers.
Friend Request is just about buying clothes, walking around in the IT building, doing an Ads minigame and then watching the guy's head blown off on TV.
Casing the Jewel Store is just looking at the jewelry store.

Fame or Shame is largely just chasing down Lazlow.
Minisub of stealing submarine is just a boring long tedious drive.
I Fought the Law is largely just chasing two fast cars down the highway.
Eye in the sky is largely just going on a helicopter to find a car and then drive it back to airport.
Blitz Play preps is just getting stuff like clothes, masks, truck etc
Hang Ten has nothing except Trevor going berserk and later taking over the strip club.
Pack man, while you get to shoot cops in a spy car, most of it just driving a truck on the freeway.

Cleaning out the Bureau is just tailing a janitor and taking his stuff.
Reuniting the Family, while it is satisfying, it just driving your family around.
Lamar Down is one of my favorite but it involves 7 km long drives twice.

So including the 3 I mentioned and all these 17. That's like 20 missions out of 69. So more than 25% of the game just sucking for me. Can you say the same for previous games?

 

That's your opinion as well. Michael is acceptable (though people rarely prefer him over any of 3d era protags) but Trevor is not that compelling. They can be argued to be too much flawed.

 

That's the thing, he doesn't need to be fleshed out. He just needed to be a badass and so he is. 
 

CJ's relationship with Sweet is complex (because CJ only shows weakness since he sees some truth in Sweet's words) and for Catalina he just used her to get money. CJ being a pushover is kinda limited since eventually he plans to take out the Syndicate in San Fierro, out-play a rival casino (and can potentially rob through heist) and eventually comes back to Los Santos and claims his place in Groove Street to the point that even Sweet lets him confront Smoke. No such thing for Michael, guy had his family got attacked by Devin and he planned no counter-attack.

CJ grows and even takes action against people are pushing him when he sees the opportunity. This is not the case for Michael, the guy later goes back to work for Madrazo for some reason, his wife is screwed by almost everyone and even gets drugged by his own son, just to accept him back just like that. Can you really tell me that ANY of the previous 3d era protagonist would do that? CJ buried a worker alive just because they called his a sister a hooker.



 

 

If Trevor wasn't a protagonist he would still be an important character, its not like he would be removed. But its obvious that Michael was the first GTA V protagonist they created, even the first trailer is narrated by him while the other two are not even shown.

I mean to each their own but you are being harsh on V's missions..there were plenty of "drive there", "chase/tail that dude" etc. type of missions in the other GTA games too. Its not like every one of them had some exciting shootout and was intense. Remember in SA the mission called "Photo Opportunity" where you had to drive all over the map just to shoot some photos and then drive back? That was kind of tedious too. Just one example.

 

Depends on which 3D Era protagonists. Tommy and CJ are more popular but Michael is still more liked than the other 3D Era MC's and also the HD Era apart from Niko from what I have seen. Trevor is more divisive but has plenty of fans too, its not like he is not popular. Overall my point is that they are more fleshed out than the 3D era MC's but whether that's a good thing or not depends on the player.

 

Its a complex relationship but CJ is definitely shown as a pushover. I mean he accomplishes so much throughout SA's story yet Sweet trashes him for stupid reasons (there is no truth to his words, he just wants to drag down his brother and stay in the hood) and CJ just takes it instead of calling him out. Not to mention Tenpenny..once CJ works with Toreno, breaks into military bases and is really above a simple gangbanger it makes no sense that he would allow himself to be treated like sh*t by some corrupt Cop.

 

And Catalina treated him awfully, he was kind of shown in a weak way there..like when she pulls a gun on him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhbvgk8oCQc 
I don't remember any scene like that with Michael although I agree that he had his weak moments with Madrazo and Haines & Jimmy. Both are lacking compared to Tommy or Niko who were far more badass imho. I don't think that the Amanda part counts though. Michael cheats plenty on her as well (even if you don't do it its clear he did it before). 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by FanEu7

[Ryo256]

37 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

If Trevor wasn't a protagonist he would still be an important character, its not like he would be removed. But its obvious that Michael was the first GTA V protagonist they created, even the first trailer is narrated by him while the other two are not even shown.

Not exactly the best argument since Michael is like the 2nd protagonist you can unlock in game after prologue. That's not exactly a good argument that Franklin is the main protagonist but your evidence is at that level, not convincing.

 

37 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

I mean to each their own but you are being harsh on V's missions..there were plenty of "drive there", "chase/tail that dude" etc. type of missions in the other GTA games too. Its not like every one of them had some exciting shootout and was intense. Remember in SA the mission called "Photo Opportunity" where you had to drive all over the map just to shoot some photos and then drive back? That was kind of tedious too. Just one example.

When does Photo Opportunity occurs.......somewhere in the middle of the game? Missions I listed in V are occurring throughout the game. And out of all the missions, how many are tedious in previous game. I gave a percentage for GTA V for a reason. You will find a tedious mission around every corner in that game, this is not case in previous game for me and I'm sure you would agree.
 

 

37 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Depends on which 3D Era protagonists. Tommy and CJ are more popular but Michael is still more liked than the other 3D Era MC's and also the HD Era apart from Niko from what I have seen. Trevor is more divisive but has plenty of fans too, its not like he is not popular. Overall my point is that they are more fleshed out than the 3D era MC's but whether that's a good thing or not depends on the player.

Understand the fantasy in GTA. Tommy is a badass and CJ has connection over entire San Andreas so they work great as GTA protagonists. Not many people are interested in Michael who was supposed to be a protagonist at his peak like players are at the end of their games but ended up being.....the way he is.

My point however is, even being fleshed out doesn't help them, Michael comes off as too pathetic at times and Trevor as simply cringey manchild that can only bully people weaker than him. You can highlight their good points as you wish BUT their flaws are too many. Try Arthur Morgan from RDR2, Try Lincoln Clay from Mafia 3. Competent, effective and fleshed out. GTA V protagonists are only fleshed out and that's all they have going for them. So fleshed out doesn't automatically makes them compelling or good.

 

37 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Its a complex relationship but CJ is definitely shown as a pushover. I mean he accomplishes so much throughout SA's story yet Sweet trashes him for stupid reasons (there is no truth to his words, he just wants to drag down his brother and stay in the hood) and CJ just takes it instead of calling him out.

Sweet's argument isn't entirely wrong. And let's not forget that he praised the CJ the most in Los Santos arc when CJ was putting in work. Sweet just highlighted that when they needed him the most, CJ ran away, so building an empire across San Andreas isn't enough, he needs to pay attention to his family that he neglected. And the thing is while you may find Sweet to be too harsh, the truth is that GTA SA ends with CJ accepting Sweet's point and growing in the process where he was more interested in seeing what's going in Groove Street rather than all the big plans others were thinking across San Andreas in the post credit scene.

 

37 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Not to mention Tenpenny..once CJ works with Toreno, breaks into military bases and is really above a simple gangbanger it makes no sense that he would allow himself to be treated like sh*t by some corrupt Cop.

Tenpenny is not that different from FIB pushing the trio in V and the reality is even Trevor seems to obey Steve Haines for some reason so don't go there which doesn't make sense either. As for Toreno well, he is not a different case than Niko and ULP.  The point is that CJ gets pushed over when he knows he can't make a dent but given the chance he killed Pulaski. He even tried to assassinate Toreno but realized that he is a bigger beast than expected. So yes, CJ is a reasonable case.

 

37 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

And Catalina treated him awfully, he was kind of shown in a weak way there..like when she pulls a gun on him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhbvgk8oCQc 

Well most people would do that, even Niko panic'd when Badman pulled a knife on him.

 

37 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

I don't remember any scene like that with Michael although I agree that he had his weak moments with Madrazo and Haines & Jimmy.

Haines grabbed Michael's neck and suddenly he started playing nice. No gun or knife needed.
 

37 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Both are lacking compared to Tommy or Niko who were far more badass imho.

Sure but CJ is still doing better.

 

37 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Michael cheats plenty on her as well (even if you don't do it its clear he did it before). 

You are playing as Michael okay? He is supposed to be a GTA character. Imagine playing a game where your spouse is getting screwed and you can't even do anything. Niko killed Vlad for messing with Malorie. Because GTA games are about power fantasy. My example of Michael letting his wife get screwed over causes issue for power fantasy of GTA series. And I even showed that CJ is willing to bury a man alive just because he insulted his sister. CJ is doing a lot better.
 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Ryo256

[FanEu7]

56 minutes ago, Ryo256 said:

Not exactly the best argument since Michael is like the 2nd protagonist you can unlock in game after prologue. That's not exactly a good argument that Franklin is the main protagonist but your evidence is at that level, not convincing.

 

When does Photo Opportunity occurs.......somewhere in the middle of the game? Missions I listed in V are occurring throughout the game. And out of all the missions, how many are tedious in previous game. I gave a percentage for GTA V for a reason. You will find a tedious mission around every corner in that game, this is not case in previous game for me and I'm sure you would agree.
 

 

Understand the fantasy in GTA. Tommy is a badass and CJ has connection over entire San Andreas so they work great as GTA protagonists. Not many people are interested in Michael who was supposed to be a protagonist at his peak like players are at the end of their games but ended up being.....the way he is.

My point however is, even being fleshed out doesn't help them, Michael comes off as too pathetic at times and Trevor as simply cringey manchild that can only bully people weaker than him. You can highlight their good points as you wish BUT their flaws are too many. Try Arthur Morgan from RDR2, Try Lincoln Clay from Mafia 3. Competent, effective and fleshed out. GTA V protagonists are only fleshed out and that's all they have going for them. So fleshed out doesn't automatically makes them compelling or good.

 

Sweet's argument isn't entirely wrong. And let's not forget that he praised the CJ the most in Los Santos arc when CJ was putting in work. Sweet just highlighted that when they needed him the most, CJ ran away, so building an empire across San Andreas isn't enough, he needs to pay attention to his family that he neglected. And the thing is while you may find Sweet to be too harsh, the truth is that GTA SA ends with CJ accepting Sweet's point and growing in the process where he was more interested in seeing what's going in Groove Street rather than all the big plans others were thinking across San Andreas in the post credit scene.

 

Tenpenny is not that different from FIB pushing the trio in V and the reality is even Trevor seems to obey Steve Haines for some reason so don't go there which doesn't make sense either. As for Toreno well, he is not a different case than Niko and ULP.  The point is that CJ gets pushed over when he knows he can't make a dent but given the chance he killed Pulaski. He even tried to assassinate Toreno but realized that he is a bigger beast than expected. So yes, CJ is a reasonable case.

 

Well most people would do that, even Niko panic'd when Badman pulled a knife on him.

 

Haines grabbed Michael's neck and suddenly he started playing nice. No gun or knife needed.
 

Sure but CJ is still doing better.

 

You are playing as Michael okay? He is supposed to be a GTA character. Imagine playing a game where your spouse is getting screwed and you can't even do anything. Niko killed Vlad for messing with Malorie. Because GTA games are about power fantasy. My example of Michael letting his wife get screwed over causes issue for power fantasy of GTA series. And I even showed that CJ is willing to bury a man alive just because he insulted his sister. CJ is doing a lot better.
 

 

Except it is more convincing. Michael narrated the first trailer (even during the other trailers he was shown as more important) and got the most focus during the game so its obvious he was created first. Trevor also has tons of focus throughout the game.  Franklin is the only one who was poorly handled, they needed to focus more on his relationship with Michael and Lamar (and whatever was up with his former girlfriend)

 

I wouldn't agree with that, I really only disliked Scouting the Port  & Did somebody say Yoga. The rest were fine and classic GTA. 

 

It depends on your perspective. I think it was interesting to see a GTA protagonist who "made it" (already a mansion, family, rich enough)  but still had a sh*tty unsatisfying life. Also playing as someone who betrayed his friends was also intriguing (usually you have to kill that type of character) and Michael's reasons made sense. His arc overall was satisfying to me, at the end he has found some real passion, happy family and also made up with his best friend.

 

I can also explain why I liked Trevor but I think you get my point. Both Michael and Trevor still have plenty of badass moments anyway (Michael is at the top of his game when he is doing heists for an example, you can see that he is a professional) and I don't really need the stereotypical "rags to riches" GTA story here.

 

Arthur Morgan is obviously better than them (he is one of the best protagonists in any game) but I wasn't a fan of Lincoln Clay. He was far too one note for me, just focused on mindless revenge. The writers killed off his father figure and friends way too soon, they made him feel more human. After the prologue he is just a boring killer but I dislike Mafia 3 in general (huge fan of Mafia 2 though).

 

Sweet only praises CJ when he does work for the hood, never otherwise. Also CJ has been paying attention towards his family throughout SA. Kendl was with him and he made sure she was safe with Cesar (killed a dude who disrespected her too). And he worked for Toreno to get Sweet out, how is he neglecting them? Yet the minute Sweet gets out he trashes him for doing nothing and betraying the hood..completely ignoring all his accomplishments. And I don't like that CJ just accepts his sh*t instead of calling him out. 

 

Niko still reacted better than CJ, his reaction here is just weak. Not to mention being trashed by Tenpenny despite being able to infiltrate military bases, working for a government agency etc. Again not saying Michael being bossed around by Haines is better but I don't think CJ is more badass than Michael.  The only protagonists who never had any weak moments are Tommy and Niko

 

GTA IV was anything but a power fantasy though, it went against the fairy tale type of endings that the other GTA's have (V included) most characters had bittersweet/bad endings.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by FanEu7

[Ryo256]

20 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Except it is more convincing. Michael narrated the first trailer (even during the other trailers he was shown as more important) and got the most focus during the game so its obvious he was created first. Trevor also has tons of focus throughout the game.  Franklin is the only one who was poorly handled, they needed to focus more on his relationship with Michael (unlike others I didn't want more hood missions though).

At the end of the game, as Franklin you will live. You can kill off either Michael or Trevor. That is, IMO, a far better argument. But that's just saying.

 

20 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

I wouldn't agree with that, I really only disliked Scouting the Port  & Did somebody say Yoga. The rest were fine and classic GTA. 

You say that GTA SA has Photo Opportunity mission where I'm arguing that GTA V had plenty of Photo Opportunity. How you feel about it is a different thing. Plenty of missions I highlighted aren't classic GTA and far from fine IMO.
 

20 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

It depends on your perspective. I think it was interesting to see a GTA protagonist who "made it" (already a mansion, family, rich enough) 

Except he didn't made it, he just cut a deal with FIB. It's not all him. For a character who made it, he is disappointing but that's not just my opinion, most people here do feel the same.
 

20 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

I can also explain why I liked Trevor but I think you get my point. Both Michael and Trevor still have plenty of badass moments anyway (Michael is at the top of his game when he is doing heists for an example, you can see that he is a professional) and I don't really need the stereotypical "rags to riches" GTA story here.

And pretty pathetic moments too. Actually Michael rarely does much badassery on his own accord except for when he is working for Solomon Richards. Trevor is showcased to be more of a maniac than a glorious killer like previous games have done.

20 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Arthur Morgan is obviously better than them (he is one of the best protagonists in any game) but I wasn't a fan of Lincoln Clay. He was far too one note for me, just focused on mindless revenge. The writers killed off his father figure and friends way too soon, they made him feel more human. After the prologue he is just a boring killer but I dislike Mafia 3 in general (huge fan of Mafia 2 though).

Lincoln Clay was a fleshed out character and far more compelling than any GTA V protagonist can hope to be and yet you have a problem with him. It's almost as if characters being fleshed out isn't enough to make them compelling or good? 

 

20 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Sweet only praises CJ when he does work for the hood, never otherwise. Also CJ has been paying attention towards his family throughout SA. Kendl was with him and he made sure she was safe with Cesar (killed a dude who disrespected her too). And he worked for Toreno to get Sweet out, how is he neglecting them? Yet the minute Sweet gets out he trashes him for doing nothing and betraying the hood..completely ignoring all his accomplishments. And I don't like that CJ just accepts his sh*t instead of calling him out.

 

Sweet is talking about when CJ was out of city before game started. When he had to go and steal just to feed the family. Sweet kept his mother and sister alive in a difficult time when CJ wasn't there. 
 

20 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Niko still reacted better than CJ, his reaction here is just weak.

That's because Badman didn't drag it out like Catalina did. Also CJ needed Catalina and knew how to charm her, that was not the case of Niko but your example is more of a general reaction. It is not example of one being a push over.

 

20 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Not to mention being trashed by Tenpenny despite being able to infiltrate military bases, working for a government agency etc.

Because Tenpenny has his brother in jail and threatens to get him killed if CJ even approaches him. CJ being able to infiltrate miliary can't change that. That's why CJ goes after Smoke when Sweet is out thanks to Toreno and isn't afraid to go after Tenpenny either afterwards.

 

20 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

GTA IV was anything but a power fantasy though

First main boss you kill is Vlad in an optional execution sequence. In fact Niko gets paid by top criminals, as he commits crimes and gets to kill every single antagonist. The guy later has Darko gifted him across the country just so he can get his revenge. And has an option to blast through the boat just to kill Dimitri as he wish.

 

20 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

it went against the fairy tale type of endings that the other GTA's have (V included). 

That doesn't take away the fact that Niko accomplishes a lot at the end. It is just a bittersweet take on "the victory we longed for" in GTA games in general. But a victory is a victory. A power fantasy is a power fantasy.


 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Ryo256

[cp1dell]

They did the inverse of IV+EFLC.

 

Take the entirety of the game for example: You have three protagonists, each with their own main plot, and one over arching sub-plot (the diamonds) that causes some overlap with the other two protagonists occasionally. Instead of doing that again in GTA V, but with the convenience of one game and being able to switch characters, we got three protagonists featured in an over arching main plot with frequent overlaps, and each one with their own sub-plot (Michael's family, Trevor's business, Franklin and the hood). But two of those sub plots disappear rather quickly, and those two characters only have the main plot left for them. Michael's family thing is spread thin across the entire game.

 

The story is small, and there's not a lot of missions. They should have did what they did with IV+EFLC. Michael's main plot could have been about his restlessness of being retired, and coming out of retirement, and the issues with his family and the effect him resuming his criminal activity has on them. Franklin's entire thing with getting out of the hood should have been much longer, as opposed to killing a couple people for Lester and then that's that. Same with Trevor's business. The FIB/Devon Weston plot should have been smaller and been the sub-plot that causes the characters' stories to overlap every now and then.

 

Oh, and my other gripe with the story is Trevor being watered down. Some of you might remember the devkit that got leaked on here, and someone made that nice video of beta/removed cutscene audio. In the "Fame or Shame" portion, Trevor is much more threatening and menacing towards Michael and his family. His personality matches that of his personality in his first couple of missions, before getting to Los Santos. Where in the version of the game we got, once Trevor reaches Los Santos, his character changes from "violent criminal psychopath" to "criminal comedic relief random crazy man." I imagine there was a point in development where Trevor was more of a "playable antagonist" like Dan Houser mentioned in an old interview about how you would play as the antagonist, but then at some point in the story you'd view the original guy (Michael) as the actual playable antagonist, and then maybe changing your mind again etc. Then at some point they decided to tone Trevor down once he finds Michael, and the version of him that we met in Blaine County, completely disappears.

 

EDIT: Or maybe not have the Madrazo plotline resolved so quickly. Hell, each character had their own antagonist related to their small personal story (Franklin/Stretch, and Trevor/The Chinese). That could have been Michael's. Michael's whole personal plot could have been coming out of retirement because of tearing down that house, and instead of one heist paying him off, you're working for him and his people, almost the entire game. Or maybe he is paid off by that heist, but Michael is frequently called upon instead of just once like in Caida Libre, and have a whole plot open up/expand from there.

Edited January 2, 2021 by cp1dell

[RobeX]

4 hours ago, cp1dell said:

have

 

12 hours ago, Americana said:

This game, and the story, lacks a lot. I always say that what I miss the most are the emotions. I want the story to be emotional. It doesn't have to be depressing, but something that evokes emotions.

 

That would be 100% possible even with the current plot, but with additional plots. So, for example - why does Michael kill Stretch? Wouldn't it be a good idea for Stretch and his gang to try and kidnap, or attempt to rape Tracey? This would make Michael and Trevor furious, and they could work together with Franklin to eliminate Stretch and his gang.

 

Also, why does Michael work for the government? Well, it would be much better if Steve kidnapped Michael's family - that way Michael would be forced to work with him, wouldn't be able to just kill him, and it would make more sense - also it's much better than the family leaving for almost the whole game. Also, killing Steve would be... much more interesting.

 

Moreover, in my opinion, working for the government wouldn't be that bad, but... Steve is just a joke in the game. I've enjoyed working for IAA in Grand Theft Auto IV, because it was classy. However, FIB in Grand Theft Auto V is just lame and the missions are so f*cking stupid.

 

And so on... and so on...

Michael kills off Stretch bc he was doing that for frank.

[RobeX]

5 hours ago, cp1dell said:

They did the inverse of IV+EFLC.

 

Take the entirety of the game for example: You have three protagonists, each with their own main plot, and one over arching sub-plot (the diamonds) that causes some overlap with the other two protagonists occasionally. Instead of doing that again in GTA V, but with the convenience of one game and being able to switch characters, we got three protagonists featured in an over arching main plot with frequent overlaps, and each one with their own sub-plot (Michael's family, Trevor's business, Franklin and the hood). But two of those sub plots disappear rather quickly, and those two characters only have the main plot left for them. Michael's family thing is spread thin across the entire game.

 

The story is small, and there's not a lot of missions. They should have did what they did with IV+EFLC. Michael's main plot could have been about his restlessness of being retired, and coming out of retirement, and the issues with his family and the effect him resuming his criminal activity has on them. Franklin's entire thing with getting out of the hood should have been much longer, as opposed to killing a couple people for Lester and then that's that. Same with Trevor's business. The FIB/Devon Weston plot should have been smaller and been the sub-plot that causes the characters' stories to overlap every now and then.

 

Oh, and my other gripe with the story is Trevor being watered down. Some of you might remember the devkit that got leaked on here, and someone made that nice video of beta/removed cutscene audio. In the "Fame or Shame" portion, Trevor is much more threatening and menacing towards Michael and his family. His personality matches that of his personality in his first couple of missions, before getting to Los Santos. Where in the version of the game we got, once Trevor reaches Los Santos, his character changes from "violent criminal psychopath" to "criminal comedic relief random crazy man." I imagine there was a point in development where Trevor was more of a "playable antagonist" like Dan Houser mentioned in an old interview about how you would play as the antagonist, but then at some point in the story you'd view the original guy (Michael) as the actual playable antagonist, and then maybe changing your mind again etc. Then at some point they decided to tone Trevor down once he finds Michael, and the version of him that we met in Blaine County, completely disappears.

 

EDIT: Or maybe not have the Madrazo plotline resolved so quickly. Hell, each character had their own antagonist related to their small personal story (Franklin/Stretch, and Trevor/The Chinese). That could have been Michael's. Michael's whole personal plot could have been coming out of retirement because of tearing down that house, and instead of one heist paying him off, you're working for him and his people, almost the entire game. Or maybe he is paid off by that heist, but Michael is frequently called upon instead of just once like in Caida Libre, and have a whole plot open up/expand from there.

i think they did that bc trevor was more of an incarnation of michael's self-hatred and another personality, Trevor is everything what Michael isnt- he cares for his family, doesnt lie to himself, and not a hypocrite. 

[MaddenedGhost]

give Franklin 5-8 missions before meeting Michael, give Michael a few more missions before Trevor is introduced, give Trevor few more missions before he goes to LS, bring back the cut heist (The Nice House Heist) so there's a better reason to flee LS halfway through the game, involve Stretch more so him dying is more meaningful in Deathwish, remove ending A and B, they're unnecessary imo.

 

That's it, that should make the story better, not to say it is bad with how it is right now but I think it could've been better.