The mission restrictions really drag this game down....

[Niobium]

the game's world and mechanics are amazing, but the mission restrictions really hold this game back.

 

i was doing a bounty target, and the bounty target was alone around a campfire with his wife and kid. i came to the target, confronted him, but then i saw he had a family, felt bad for him, and walked away. since i was playing as john, i thought it would make sense to let him go considering he is also a family man, and the irony of arthur sacrificing his life so that john can be a father only for john to take that away from someone else is too tragic. so i let him go.

 

the bounty target and his family rode away in a horse wagon. guess what happened?

 

MiSsIoN FaIlEd

THE TARGET ESCAPED, YOU ARE A DUMBASS LOL

 

i couldn't believe my eyes. i laughed at rockstar's utter stupidity, and then immediately quit the game.

 

the gull of rockstar to tell you that you FAILED because you had a heart is just hilarious, stupid, and insulting all at once. i thought this game embraced being a nice guy? whatever happened to having an honor system?

 

the game is full of bullsh*t like this. try to do missions your own way and you will always be greeted with the annoying "mission failed" screen. the missions are incredibly linear, more than any rockstar open-world sandbox game besides maybe GTA V. i mean seriously.

 

i enjoy the game a lot but it's sh*t like this that keeps me from giving this "10/10 MASTERPIECE GOTY" like lots of people say it is.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Niobium

[The Artist]

3 minutes ago, Niobium said:

the game's world and mechanics are amazing, but the mission restrictions really hold this game back.

 

i was doing a bounty target, and the bounty target was alone around a campfire with his wife and kid. i came to the target, confronted him, but then i saw he had a family, felt bad for him, and walked away. since i was playing as john, i thought it would make sense to let him go considering he is also a family man, and the irony of arthur sacrificing his life so that john can be a father only for john to take that away from someone else is too tragic. so i let him go.

 

the bounty target and his family rode away in a horse wagon. guess what happened?

 

MiSsIoN FaIlEd

THE TARGET ESCAPED, YOU ARE A DUMBASS LOL

 

i couldn't believe my eyes. i laughed at rockstar's utter stupidity, and then immediately quit the game.

 

the gull of rockstar to tell you that you FAILED because you had a heart is just hilarious, stupid, and insulting all at once. i thought this game embraced being a nice guy? whatever happened to having an honor system?

 

the game is full of bullsh*t like this. try to do missions your own way and you will always be greeted with the annoying "mission failed" screen. the missions are incredibly linear, more than any rockstar open-world sandbox game besides maybe GTA V. i mean seriously.

 

i enjoy the game a lot but it's sh*t like this that keeps me from giving this "10/10 MASTERPIECE GOTY" like lots of people say it is.

agreed i hate how scripted the game is. Even worse than gta 5 in some places. Thought it would be less scripted than gta 5

 

Hoping gta 6 won't be as scripted 

 

 

[Mysterious hero]

GTA 4 and The Lost and Damned were the best in terms of mission design. In those missions, you're given an objective and you usually can achieve it in any way you would like. It was great, though it could've used some improvement.

 

I think the linear mission design started to get bad around The Ballad of Gay Tony. Then really bad around Red Dead Redemption. Then really, really awful around Grand Theft Auto 5.

Then we got to Red Dead Redemption 2.....

Edited December 18, 2020 by Mysterious hero

[billiejoearmstrong8]

To be fair even though there are several crappy things that originated in GTA V and were carried over from it to RDR2 I think the restrictive mission thing is really just a Red Dead thing, it was also like that in RDR1. Even though GTA V's mission restrictions can be bad RDR1's are significantly worse imo, you're virtually always following someone during missions (on horses, on foot or with them driving a wagon and you as passenger, even have to follow a dog the whole time in the hunting missions) so you can't even vary how you move the tiniest bit and choices in missions are few and far between. Red Dead is amazing in a lot of ways (eg environment, combat, story, side content) but I think mission design is its weakest aspect.

Edited December 18, 2020 by billiejoearmstrong8

[Tonesta]

15 hours ago, Niobium said:

the game's world and mechanics are amazing, but the mission restrictions really hold this game back.

 

i was doing a bounty target, and the bounty target was alone around a campfire with his wife and kid. i came to the target, confronted him, but then i saw he had a family, felt bad for him, and walked away. since i was playing as john, i thought it would make sense to let him go considering he is also a family man, and the irony of arthur sacrificing his life so that john can be a father only for john to take that away from someone else is too tragic. so i let him go.

 

 

Yeah, you may not have noticed, but the bounty's name was Mark Johnson.

So the game is even acknowledging, in a jokey way, that this is John Marston that you're tracking down, and you have become the bad guys from the original RDR.

 

I tried to walk away, same as you. And it's frustrating that you can't.

 

But I guess I'm getting to the point of accepting that this is what you get with Rockstar - a beautiful world, usually a compelling story, tons of content, a range of mechanics, and a game that works well (particularly relevant this week!). But their commitment to making the missions cinematic has meant that the element of choice has been stripped away. You can fool around to your heart's content in their world, but once you start a mission, they're controlling the experience......

 

 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Niobium said:

the game's world and mechanics are amazing, but the mission restrictions really hold this game back.

 

i was doing a bounty target, and the bounty target was alone around a campfire with his wife and kid. i came to the target, confronted him, but then i saw he had a family, felt bad for him, and walked away. since i was playing as john, i thought it would make sense to let him go considering he is also a family man, and the irony of arthur sacrificing his life so that john can be a father only for john to take that away from someone else is too tragic. so i let him go.

 

the bounty target and his family rode away in a horse wagon. guess what happened?

 

MiSsIoN FaIlEd

THE TARGET ESCAPED, YOU ARE A DUMBASS LOL

 

i couldn't believe my eyes. i laughed at rockstar's utter stupidity, and then immediately quit the game.

 

the gull of rockstar to tell you that you FAILED because you had a heart is just hilarious, stupid, and insulting all at once. i thought this game embraced being a nice guy? whatever happened to having an honor system?

 

the game is full of bullsh*t like this. try to do missions your own way and you will always be greeted with the annoying "mission failed" screen. the missions are incredibly linear, more than any rockstar open-world sandbox game besides maybe GTA V. i mean seriously.

 

i enjoy the game a lot but it's sh*t like this that keeps me from giving this "10/10 MASTERPIECE GOTY" like lots of people say it is.

That’s why I don’t like this game also bundled with the god awful controls 

[Slappy212]

This, along with the unskippable looting, crafting and skinning animations are what keep it from being a 10/10 game for me. Everything else is damn near perfect. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Slappy212

[FanEu7]

I don't mind that at all, it made the missions more memorable. I prefer that to the "choose your own style" that seems popular now in many games, that way all the missions just become so generic

[Excalibur Voltaire]

R* is too concerned with telling a story and the narrative, and as a result, the gameplay and freedom end up taking a backseat

[billiejoearmstrong8]

9 hours ago, Western Gunslinger said:

R* is too concerned with telling a story and the narrative, and as a result, the gameplay and freedom end up taking a backseat

 

I don't know why they can't do both honestly. They could still have a strong story and compelling cutscenes without then restricting the gameplay so heavily once you take control again during the mission. They could still have a strong narrative while allowing for some player choice/influence on it by taking extra care when writing the protagonist to account for a degree of variation in their personality and the choices they make. Like, they always have to compromise in some ways but at the level they're at the aim should be to deliver both things to the best of their ability, not just only bother with one or the other. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by billiejoearmstrong8

[Cutter De Blanc]

I mean from a purely practical point of view your only mission was to bring the bounty in, and you did not do that

 

I cut the guy off in midsentence and didnt even let him say goodbye to his family

Edited December 25, 2020 by Cutter De Blanc

[Wylyth1992]

On 12/18/2020 at 3:02 PM, Tonesta said:

 

Yeah, you may not have noticed, but the bounty's name was Mark Johnson.

So the game is even acknowledging, in a jokey way, that this is John Marston that you're tracking down, and you have become the bad guys from the original RDR.

 

Not really. Mark Johnson was brought in alive and (hopefully) faced trial before his hanging. John Marston was used by the Bureau to do their dirty work and then they had him killed (and tried to kill his wife and son).

[LittleJesus]

If you spend some days in Rhodes you witness the execution and can save him from the public hanging.

[Niobium]

On 12/25/2020 at 2:27 PM, TheJesus1996 said:

If you spend some days in Rhodes you witness the execution and can save him from the public hanging.

so if you want to be a nice guy, you have to do it co*kstar's way or not at all. lmao

[Jeansowaty]

On 12/24/2020 at 3:36 PM, Western Gunslinger said:

R* is too concerned with telling a story and the narrative, and as a result, the gameplay and freedom end up taking a backseat

Well GTA V had none of that lol

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Jeansowaty said:

Well GTA V had none of that lol

What are you on about. They literally took gta v restrictive mission design and multiplied it by 10

[Badman_]

I used to think the same but I changed my mind about it. Better to have linear quests that are varied and unique than doing the same mission over and over again like in some of the Ubisoft games.

 

Saying that R* gaming design is outdated is a little bit exaggerated IMO. It has issues and there is room for improvement, but it's not as bad as some critics point out.

Edited January 4, 2021 by The Wolf Man

[Deadman2112]

Yeah I don't disagree with what was said in the O.P.

Sadly as far as I'm aware, linear game types are much easier to design.

 

From the programming, script writing, and restrictions like...

Obstacles that slow the players progress ultimately giving them the ability to load newer assets into certain areas.

 

It restricts players from accessing certain areas that could be exploited during missions.

 

Small example would be the online missions and how you can trigger some of them and then go explore areas that you normally couldn't access.

 

Then there are factors like...

It requires far less gameplay testing to ensure the lack of bugs.

It also lowers the risk of their game being leaked because there are fewer people with their hands on it during the testing phase.

 

Not to mention the fact that they really only do this during missions and that's also because there are specific objectives that need to be met.

 

I'm not saying that's an excuse, but I think this plays a bigger Factor than most people consider.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Deadman2112

[Jeansowaty]

1 hour ago, SwishiestRock29 said:

What are you on about. They literally took gta v restrictive mission design and multiplied it by 10

Yeah but it didn't have a captivating story and no good gameplay. That's what I meant.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Jeansowaty said:

Yeah but it didn't have a captivating story and no good gameplay. That's what I meant.

Gta 5 has good gameplay. Idk about rdr2 not a big fan of it too slow paced for my liking

[Ryo256]

The alternative to linear missions is not forgettable generic missions. The alternative is that you let players change up the mission by messing around e.g in GTA IV, you fight off loan sharks for Roman in the basketball court, you can either run them over with a car or use a weapon, you don't need to use your meele to fight them.

Similarly in the same mission if you have picked up a gun from somewhere you can straight up kill Darden while chasing him before reaching him to the end where you can steal his knife and push him off the window.

We need more of this, ways to finish a mission in different ways and more efficiently especially if we are playing them a second time. We don't need mission failure just because I looked at someone the wrong way.

And while generic missions might have a drawback of being forgettable, linear missions carry their own issue......lack of replay value. Most people haven't really finished RDR2 let alone even think of doing a second playthrough. Yet GTAO is getting so much attention which is full of generic missions.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Ryo256

[FanEu7]

37 minutes ago, Ryo256 said:

The alternative to linear missions is not forgettable generic missions. The alternative is that you let players change up the mission by messing around e.g in GTA IV, you fight off loan sharks for Roman in the basketball court, you can either run them over with a car or use a weapon, you don't need to use your meele to fight them.

Similarly in the same mission if you have picked up a gun from somewhere you can straight up kill Darden while chasing him before reaching him to the end where you can steal his knife and push him off the window.

We need more of this, ways to finish a mission in different ways and more efficiently especially if we are playing them a second time. We don't need mission failure just because I looked at someone the wrong way.

And while generic missions might have a drawback of being forgettable, linear missions carry their own issue......lack of replay value. Most people haven't really finished RDR2 let alone even think of doing a second playthrough. Yet GTAO is getting so much attention which is full of generic missions.

 

Except it is. People want to have "choose your own way" type of missions now like in Ubisoft games and they are as forgettable as it gets. I don't remember any interesting missions from the past few Ubisoft games. Mafia 3 also shined when it was focused on linear missions, the repetitive taking over territories bs dragged it down.

 

Returning to GTA IV type of missions would be fine but lots of people bitched about them anyway and most people didn't complete that game either. Most gamers just don't care about stories in games.

GTA O is a fun MP game, that's why it gets so much attention. But RDR2 is one of the best received games of the last generation so its not like it was forgotten and divisive. Only a minority was mad

[billiejoearmstrong8]

22 hours ago, SwishiestRock29 said:

What are you on about. They literally took gta v restrictive mission design and multiplied it by 10

 

To be fair RDR1 has EXTREMELY restrictive missions as well. I'd say even worse than GTA V. Like, there's barely ever a moment where you don't have to stay right by someone (riding with them, on foot with them during a gunfight, on a wagon with them driving, even following a dog during the hunting missions) or where you choose anything, and doing anything at all they didn't tell you (eg accidentally knocking over an NPC with your horse) gets you instant mission failure. You're literally not allowed to put a foot out of place. I love RDR but the low amount of freedom in main missions is probably its worst aspect. And I agree that RDR2 is similar to GTA V in a lot of ways and has several bad things carried over from it. But the restrictive mission thing has always been an RDR thing. 

 

Really the bad thing that RDR2 carries on from GTA V is restrictive movement and gameplay in general. RDR1 (like GTA IV compared to GTA V) just feels more "free" and less scripted and slow when you're moving around/getting on and off a horse, having a gunfight etc. It's a choice to make it look better over making it feel better. And an unfortunate one imo. 

 

1 hour ago, Ryo256 said:

The alternative to linear missions is not forgettable generic missions. The alternative is that you let players change up the mission by messing around e.g in GTA IV, you fight off loan sharks for Roman in the basketball court, you can either run them over with a car or use a weapon, you don't need to use your meele to fight them.

Similarly in the same mission if you have picked up a gun from somewhere you can straight up kill Darden while chasing him before reaching him to the end where you can steal his knife and push him off the window.

We need more of this, ways to finish a mission in different ways and more efficiently especially if we are playing them a second time. We don't need mission failure just because I looked at someone the wrong way.

And while generic missions might have a drawback of being forgettable, linear missions carry their own issue......lack of replay value. Most people haven't really finished RDR2 let alone even think of doing a second playthrough. Yet GTAO is getting so much attention which is full of generic missions.

 

I agree, and I think the majority of the time the two things (story telling and freedom within missions) don't even affect each other. A well written cutscene/series of cutscenes that tell a story doesn't prevent the mission from having plenty of freedom of movement and options on how to approach it whatsoever, and vice versa. They literally already pulled it off in GTA IV 12 years ago, amazing story and an amazing level of mission freedom, never in conflict with each other. And with the amount of nuance their quality written protagonists have now allowing for some variation in choice of how the story goes with it still making sense for the character shouldn't be a problem either.

 

I think it's more an issue of them wanting missions to look a certain way/be spectacular set pieces where each aspect of it looks cool and even fits perfectly with the musical score. The easiest way to do that is to treat it more like one big cutscene with you just pushing buttons to get through it. This is the part where there's a conflict of interest. But there's really no excuse for it at R*'s level, it should be possible to balance things so that there's plenty of freedom and choice in between the cool scripted things they want. They've taken so much care and paid so much attention to detail in other areas that I think they must really just not care about this issue, that or whoever is responsible for it got lazy or didn't have adequate time. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by billiejoearmstrong8

[Ryo256]

36 minutes ago, FanEu7 said:

Except it is. People want to have "choose your own way" type of missions now like in Ubisoft games

@Niobium @WildBrick142  @Alexander Pierce @Deadman2112 @LodwigRedemption @Cutter De Blanc @perennial @Liberty-TG @Slappy212 @Western Gunslinger @StuntMaster100 @Mysterious hero @billiejoearmstrong8 @Jeansowaty

Is it true, all of you want Ubisoft missions in your Rockstar games?

[Jeansowaty]

12 minutes ago, Ryo256 said:

@Niobium @WildBrick142  @Alexander Pierce @Deadman2112 @LodwigRedemption @Cutter De Blanc @perennial @Liberty-TG @Slappy212 @Western Gunslinger @StuntMaster100 @Mysterious hero @billiejoearmstrong8 @Jeansowaty

Is it true, all of you want Ubisoft missions in your Rockstar games?

The only Ubisoft game I played was Driver: Parallel Lines and to be fair, its mission weren't that bad, so idk lel

[billiejoearmstrong8]

Having too much control over how the story goes actually kind of scares/bothers me lmao, I don't like it when you can screw things up badly or miss a lot of content due to your choices. It's just the most basic freedoms within missions I'm after, like being allowed to move how I want, use the weapon I want, choose which direction to approach a shootout from or how stealthy to be, have a few different options of how to achieve an objective sometimes etc and not be punished/fail the mission for slightly deviating from the one strict path they've decided I have to follow. It's a gameplay issue more than a story issue for me. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by billiejoearmstrong8

[Cutter De Blanc]

1 hour ago, Ryo256 said:

@Niobium @WildBrick142  @Alexander Pierce @Deadman2112 @LodwigRedemption @Cutter De Blanc @perennial @Liberty-TG @Slappy212 @Western Gunslinger @StuntMaster100 @Mysterious hero @billiejoearmstrong8 @Jeansowaty

Is it true, all of you want Ubisoft missions in your Rockstar games?

I will say, I wont ever forget how the big shot mafia crime leader Salvatore Leone died in my copy of GTA 3, run the f*ck over by a police car like some low rent two bit thug.  f*ck you Mr. Leone.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Cutter De Blanc

[Excalibur Voltaire]

Contrary to popular belief, Ubisoft games does have linear mission during certain part of the story, but even then you don't fail the mission just because you try to be creative

 

Speaking of which, I once replayed GTA V after finishing WD2, immediately failed Prologue because I went to the getaway car early (abandoned the crew), instantly quit the game after that

Edited January 6, 2021 by Western Gunslinger

[FanEu7]

24 minutes ago, Western Gunslinger said:

Contrary to popular belief, Ubisoft games does have linear mission during certain part of the story, but even then you don't fail the mission just because you try to be creative

 

Speaking of which, I once replayed GTA V after finishing WD2, immediately failed Prologue because I went to the getaway car early (abandoned the crew), instantly quit the game after that

 

I have been playing AC valhalla, literally every mission in that game is forgettable and rehashed. I don't care if there is more freedom if its so boring to play. 

Also WD2 is trash compared to GTA V

[FanEu7]

19 hours ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

Having too much control over how the story goes actually kind of scares/bothers me lmao, I don't like it when you can screw things up badly or miss a lot of content due to your choices. It's just the most basic freedoms within missions I'm after, like being allowed to move how I want, use the weapon I want, choose which direction to approach a shootout from or how stealthy to be, have a few different options of how to achieve an objective sometimes etc and not be punished/fail the mission for slightly deviating from the one strict path they've decided I have to follow. It's a gameplay issue more than a story issue for me. 

 

That's fair, a balance would be good. I just hope Rockstar doesn't listen too much to the criticism and goes all Ubisoft on us. Their games used to have more memorable missions as well, now they are all repetitive bs after some people bitched about them being too "linear"