Is the online intended to encourage griefing?

[Buddy Hightower]

On 12/20/2020 at 3:19 AM, zPhoenix said:

Keep in mind that for it to be PvP and not griefing it has to be balanced and very intentionally - and with full consciousness - entered into by both parties.

 

In free roam;

• Anyone attacking a noob is griefing.
• Attacking someone that is in Defensive mode is griefing.
• Leaving initially Defensive players in Offensive mode after a mission ends is griefing by R*.  They really need to fix that bull.
• Using explosives as your first act against a free roam player is griefing.
• Attacking someone that is doing collecting (you can tell easily) is griefing.
• Killing a free roamer's horse as your first act is griefing.
• Attacking someone that is standing in front of a sheriff's office with a bounty is griefing.
• Hounding the cities to mess with people when they try to go to a store is griefing.
• Attacking someone who is very obviously frozen in a menu/map/inventory/etc is griefing.

 

And remember that the vast majority of players in RDO are polite, friendly people that will not mess with you when they see you.  Only one in 20-50 players I encounter are griefers.   That is because the nature of RDO attracts decent human beings who want a pleasant non-stressful time.  There is absolutely no logical / financial reason to cater to griefers or even trying to justify that griefing is how the game should be.

lol none of that is griefing.

The entire map is a pvp zone.

[zPhoenix]

4 minutes ago, Buddy Hightower said:

lol none of that is griefing.

The entire map is a pvp zone.

 

Spoken like a true griefer trying to justify himself.

 

You do realize that the game is NOT PvP and that easily 80-90% of players are PvE players trying to do it in Defensive mode?  There are PvP aspects to it, but the vast majority of it is PvE and that is why it attracts the kinds of players that it attracts and why those players get annoyed. 

 

True PvP players will typically go to other games where PvP is real, not just assaulting unsuspecting and unprepared players.

Edited December 22, 2020 by zPhoenix

[AmyStone]

14 minutes ago, zPhoenix said:

 

Spoken like a true griefer trying to justify himself.

 

You do realize that the game is NOT PvP and that easily 80-90% of players are PvE players trying to do it in Defensive mode?  There are PvP aspects to it, but the vast majority of it is PvE and that is why it attracts the kinds of players that it attracts and why those players get annoyed. 

 

True PvP players will typically go to other games where PvP is real, not just assaulting unsuspecting and unprepared players.

 

That's a bit unfair. It's just a different opinion to yours. That doesn't make him a griefer. I don't think any of the things you listed on their own makes someone a greifer. I think it has to be a sustained attack by people far more powerful. Like a posse of 4 going after a single player continually. But if someone kills you then parley and get on with your game. If they still try to mess with you then it sounds like griefing to me but then you have the option to jump sessions. If you block them before you jump then they can't follow you across sessions.

 

80-90% play in defensive? What platform are you on? It's maybe 10% defensive on playstation.

 

Some people have very strange opinions on what griefiers are. My friend and I were in Rhodes last night standing around outside the post office. Someone came up and shot us so we went after them. It was 2v2. They attacked first. After we killed them about 20 times they got their explosives out. I messaged and called them out for their explosives and they said they use them 'on griefers like us'. Ummm ok.

Edited December 22, 2020 by AmyStone

[Buddy Hightower]

5 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

 

80-90% play in defensive? What platform are you on? It's maybe 10% defensive on playstation.

I'm on xbox and I think about 50% are in defensive if I had to guess.

I haven't been in defensive since about 2 days after it was an option - I don't see the point in gimping myself.

[The Artist]

28 minutes ago, zPhoenix said:

 

Spoken like a true griefer trying to justify himself.

 

You do realize that the game is NOT PvP and that easily 80-90% of players are PvE players trying to do it in Defensive mode?  There are PvP aspects to it, but the vast majority of it is PvE and that is why it attracts the kinds of players that it attracts and why those players get annoyed. 

 

True PvP players will typically go to other games where PvP is real, not just assaulting unsuspecting and unprepared players.

Gta Online griefing is far worse bro.

[Do not Bogart that]

Hi again. (Just want to warn you, this one's a bit longer.)

I'm playing RDO for about 21 months now - way before the FP update arrived and a little bit after the dailies descended on us - but yes, it was worse back then!

First thing I've realized, was to get better in this here version of PVP really fast. You all know, as a lower level under 40 you need cards, weapons and better ammo, therefore money/Gold plus you need time to max your health, stamina and deadeye (if you wanna be able compete). Bad luck back then, everything was harder to come by if you're not willing to micro-transact. It was way, way worse earlier and there was no 'puppy protection... !

I'm in my mid 500's now and a couple of months ago, around 'the Great Drought (oh yeah, you beat me to it :-)) my path became way more eased up & relaxed. I'm not spending that much time in-game anymore, not since 'the Great Gold Nerf' anyway. I start when I feel to it not because I want to keep my streak or achieve s.th. different, definately not 'Money or Gold'! 

But before I continue I wanna make a scenic detour.

I know R* (or play the GTA-Franchise) since it was a top-down game although I really started to enjoy it with GTA III all the way to RDR2.

All these years, I've grown into the characters with all their flaws and darkness and feel - gamewise - a little bit determined by them over time! (But finger-pointing leads us nowhere now does it.)

Let's say, I have a working concept of the 'duality of good and evil' and how we all carry both sides in us... over the years I've become 'desensitized' to ingame violence, behavior, language and context! We mostly play a 'bad guy' - sometimes having a good core or vice versa - with no conscience at first (I've seen bad things and done way worse)...

You might want to see it as a form of ventilation and/or even more to s.b. if the don't have a sport, task, family or friends to rely and yes, even to vent on. So inside these games, we all have robbed, killed, burned, tortured, mutilated or played dentist once too many times I guess... I don't know. If you reflect on that, most people won't be affected negatively by it! BUT some have an already questionable mind-setting plus given the impression by R*: 'that is how you have to play the game to progress/finish it', these few will just continue doing it wether it's considered 'griefing (in RDO)' or not, claiming it's all inside the rules and actually thinking 'I AM SO GREAT'! They all have different approaches on how to play and how to have fun and thus, they won't feel empathy at all. Some just couldn't care less...

So, once again, I would say 'yes, we're all somehow determined by our surroundings; and both enviroment as well as a genetic makeup will subliminally be influencing our behavior!

I won't say R* encourages a certain behavior (not actively at least) but in some way, they (R* and other studios too) home-made, breeded and perfected an army of those very beautiful 'Siamese fighting fish' with every knowledge (!?) of what they are capable of and released/introduced them into this vast and beautiful pond of theirs from different ends, knowing they'll eventually meet each other and clash at some point in time... it's inevitable!

R* isn't encouraging 'griefing' in RDO although 'they' are setting the 'right tone' to do it, it's the player himself who chooses and defines his actions. Wether he is fully aware of it or not is rather unimportant to me as I'm not trying to define griefing itself in RDO. 'General hostility' has risen again exponentially since the standalone of RDO in December and it's not only the lower ranks who go nice personoo right now.

"(...), but what we are trying to do is allow people to, however they want to play the game, interact with the world and still fell like they're all part of the same world together."

Yes, RDO is a hybrid of PVP & PVE but if the game chooses, you should be uninterrupted, it puts you into a temporary solo session where you can achieve your target and afterwards merges you back in with the rest again. Also happened if you played a free-roam stranger-mission for the first time but then it wouldn't merge you back until you left the lobby. I can't say if that is or was on purpose or not? But if so... we would clearly have an InviteOnlySession option by now.

"With SP, you develop over a fairly lenghty period of time in Isolation, but the online is...". They don't want you to be alone anymore, they want player interaction now!

 

Which brings me closer to the 'why'?

But as I won't bore you any further, I'll try a short answer:

One target of 'every major money making company' is to gather as much information on their subjects as possible. We really have been the Hamsters running and solving their maze for the past 2 years (and again, I'm not touching GTA:O and R*'s data collection over the last 7 years on players, etc.). I'm sure they've learned a lot about us and how to handle us. For what it's worth, we all got paid a fair(?) amount of gold being their subject of research for so long...

 

Thank you all for reading and please dont forget, this is just my opinion and not the one and only truth!

Have a good day (playing RDO), stay healthy and safe.

 

 

 

 

[IamCourtney]

41 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

Some people have very strange opinions on what griefiers are. My friend and I were in Rhodes last night standing around outside the post office. Someone came up and shot us so we went after them. It was 2v2. They attacked first. After we killed them about 20 times they got their explosives out. I messaged and called them out for their explosives and they said they use them 'on griefers like us'. Ummm ok.

Whenever someone pulls out the e-rounds during a bit of non-serious PvP like this I just load up on defensive cards and tonics and start charging them suicidally until they use up their supply. Just like the definition of griefing is an open question, so too is what counts as a Win in random PvP 

[AmyStone]

6 minutes ago, IamCourtney said:

Whenever someone pulls out the e-rounds during a bit of non-serious PvP like this I just load up on defensive cards and tonics and start charging them suicidally until they use up their supply. Just like the definition of griefing is an open question, so too is what counts as a Win in random PvP 

 

I just carry on fighting. It's just funny to me. Especially if they are rank 300+. And I love the sounds of the explosives going splat against rocks and trees. It usually taken them 4 shots to get a kill and the first few just knock you over. It explains why they use them. All they can get is body shots so will lose easily against an average PvP player with standard ammo.

[StyxTx]

2 hours ago, zPhoenix said:

 

Spoken like a true griefer trying to justify himself.

 

You do realize that the game is NOT PvP and that easily 80-90% of players are PvE players trying to do it in Defensive mode?  There are PvP aspects to it, but the vast majority of it is PvE and that is why it attracts the kinds of players that it attracts and why those players get annoyed. 

 

True PvP players will typically go to other games where PvP is real, not just assaulting unsuspecting and unprepared players.

Ignore him. He just says sh*t to annoy people. The guy isn't the brightest bulb in the box since he can't tell the difference between pvp and griefing. This is the same guy that claims the game plays perfect for him and he doesn't see any issues with the game at all.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by StyxTx

[kcole4001]

4 hours ago, StyxTx said:

Ignore him. He just says sh*t to annoy people. The guy isn't the brightest bulb in the box since he can't tell the difference between pvp and griefing. This is the same guy that claims the game plays perfect for him and he doesn't see any issues with the game at all.

 

 

That's what the ignore function is for.

Some people just cry out for it (well, really they just want attention or whatever, who has time for that nonsense).

[jackedbanan]

this game has lame showdown/hold the bag modes. that probably is why there are many players who want to mess with other people in the first place. in first RDR it was much better.

first two teams had to make a standoff which was infinitely cooler. two teams system is much better than what we have now btw

if it was a free for all then it was every man himself at the standoff, that was even better lol

you had to get 100 player headshots in game modes (free roam doesn't count) to make the gun gold tinted, including dynamite if I remember correctly. they could implement something similar in RDO but I doubt it

guns were not from player's inventory but instead given. you could pick better ones up in the map, and starter weapons weren't lame also. most of the time you got repeaters. I guess there are still game modes where you get fixed set of weapons in RDO, but like I said they are lame. no player's inventory, good starter weapons is the way

locations are also lame. who thought geysers was a good location for pvp? rhodes, macfarlane's ranch, armadillo, strawberry, valentine all good choices yet I don't remember playing in any one of them. there were also great maps in mexico such as chuparosa, escalera and few other close quarters gang hideout maps. guess what mexico is still not in-game lol

game modes are also lame. just make a normal shootout where you kill your opponent instead of preventing him to take a sh*t in a specific area or something

and the biggest of all, why are all these game modes so short? why would anyone bother joining a lame game session that lasts 6 minutes max? 10 minutes it is at least

[GrungeNinja]

3 hours ago, jackedbanan said:

and the biggest of all, why are all these game modes so short? why would anyone bother joining a lame game session that lasts 6 minutes max? 10 minutes it is at least

Exactly, and the struggle to join them, loading screens + waiting for players to join + those damn long death respawns that usually happens.

Edited December 23, 2020 by GrungeNinja

[StyxTx]

4 hours ago, jackedbanan said:

and the biggest of all, why are all these game modes so short? why would anyone bother joining a lame game session that lasts 6 minutes max? 10 minutes it is at least

They are longer than 6 minutes if you add the 15 minutes it takes to get into the mode and wait for other players.

[kcole4001]

4 hours ago, jackedbanan said:

.....

locations are also lame. who thought geysers was a good location for pvp? rhodes, macfarlane's ranch, armadillo, strawberry, valentine all good choices yet I don't remember playing in any one of them. there were also great maps in mexico such as chuparosa, escalera and few other close quarters gang hideout maps. guess what mexico is still not in-game lol

game modes are also lame. just make a normal shootout where you kill your opponent instead of preventing him to take a sh*t in a specific area or something

and the biggest of all, why are all these game modes so short? why would anyone bother joining a lame game session that lasts 6 minutes max? 10 minutes it is at least

I've played showdowns in Rhodes, Strawberry, the sugar farm area just north of StDenis, they were all pretty good maps I thought.

Braithwaite Manor is also a good map.

The desert maps usually turned into sniping contests, particularly the farm map - can't remember the name of it.

The takeover maps on the bridge and the river ford were terrible, the open field with barricades was a pure sniper fest.

 

The waiting before and between is annoying, but much worse is starting showdowns and races mid game, that's pure stupidity, not to mention that any kills you make won't count for dailies until the next event.

Whoever came up with that format should be fed to wolves.

[Direwrath]

19 hours ago, AmyStone said:

Some people have very strange opinions on what griefiers are. My friend and I were in Rhodes last night standing around outside the post office. Someone came up and shot us so we went after them. It was 2v2. They attacked first. After we killed them about 20 times they got their explosives out. I messaged and called them out for their explosives and they said they use them 'on griefers like us'. Ummm ok.

That's not griefing, that is called a lesson to be learned. Once again why start a fight if you do not intend to play in the first place?

 

12 hours ago, jackedbanan said:

this game has lame showdown/hold the bag modes. that probably is why there are many players who want to mess with other people in the first place. in first RDR it was much better.

That and the fact that showdowns just don't feel natural, if I can say that without sounding like a moron since we are talking about a video game and all. What most pvp players are looking for is a random event, a shootout in the streets, a fist fight at the saloon, or an ambush by other players waiting on the road. Being as I am not a player who actively looks for pvp play, even I will say that when I have had "bandit" players ambush me on the road, or have been able to be a part of a large gunfight on the streets of St Denis it was exciting and fun.

Showdowns are predictable and boring, that's all there is to it.

 

8 hours ago, GrungeNinja said:

Exactly, and the struggle to join them, loading screens + waiting for players to join + those damn long death respawns that usually happens.

The year before last, for the halloween Fear of the Dark showdown me and my daughter sat there with the same group of players for nearly 30 minutes waiting for one player to join so the match would start.  

[zPhoenix]

Maybe they should add a new type of action similar to emotes, a challenge to a duel that people can accept or decline (default = decline if you don't respond in 30 seconds, and maybe even a setting to auto-decline if you turn it on).  That should give the PvP players a reasonable outlet without having to resort to griefing.  Then, after that feature is implemented... increase the penalties for those who grief anyway.

[zPhoenix]

Today I experienced the sneakiest griefing approach, and it was pure griefing... no other intent than to mess with me:

 

• I was in a distant delivery, so I expected to be attacked.  That would be normal, but what followed wasn't.
• 2 players attacked me.  They were pretty bad, still they sniped me from a distance before I could see them.
• I respawned and noticed that THEY WERE NOT TAKING THE CART.  Instead they hid around the cart to kill me on approach.
• I let them kill me, over and over, pressing charges to build up their bounties.   They pretty much laughed it off.  At one point I think I saw one pay a $500 bounty.
• When that didn't work I started killing their horses but not touching them.  That made them mad but kept at it.
• So I killed them both and got my cart.  But they respawn much too close and intercepted me before I could get away.
• It went on from there, I killed them a bunch of times and them me.
• In the end I got fed up, blew up my cart, used both the in-game and web page reporting tools to see if anything might happen, and changed server.

 

So... nobody benefited from all that bull?  Just time wasted.

[CosmicBuffalo]

1 hour ago, zPhoenix said:

• saw one pay a $500 bounty.
•  

 

So... nobody benefited from all that bull?  Just time wasted.

Unless it was changed, the highest a bounty can be is $100 and you really have to want it.

 

The best thing to do is camp your wagon, and get as many kills as you can without them stealing your stuff, and when it gets to 30 secs...close the game and you will still have all your goods.

Edited December 29, 2020 by CosmicBuffalo

[CaliMeatWagon]

I see feelings are still ruling over facts in this thread. 

[DarksunDaFirst]

On 12/22/2020 at 9:34 AM, zPhoenix said:

 

 

True PvP players will typically go to other games where PvP is real, not just assaulting unsuspecting and unprepared players.

Truth Level:  

 

Now it is a PK environment, but it is not real PvP unless it is:

 

- sanctioned PvP event/mode

- competitive PvE (stealing a trade, defending a bounty, etc).  
 

People tend to forget, or are oblivious, to what true PvP vs PK vs PvP is.  Most don’t even understand the difference between PK and PvP.

Truth be told, if the free roamers who go around relentlessly kill others in unprovoked surprise attacks think they’re awesome “Peeee-VaaaH-Peee” players, they would sh*t themselves playing a true PvP game and run back to RDO to help others pick poppies and violets.

Edited December 29, 2020 by DarksunDaFirst

[Excalibur Voltaire]

To be fair griefers tend to be losers IRL so they take it off to an online game where they can annoy random people without repercussion to feel better about themselves

[StyxTx]

2 hours ago, DarksunDaFirst said:

Truth Level:  

 

Now it is a PK environment, but it is not real PvP unless it is:

 

- sanctioned PvP event/mode

- competitive PvE (stealing a trade, defending a bounty, etc).  
 

People tend to forget, or are oblivious, to what true PvP vs PK vs PvP is.  Most don’t even understand the difference between PK and PvP.

Truth be told, if the free roamers who go around relentlessly kill others in unprovoked surprise attacks think they’re awesome “Peeee-VaaaH-Peee” players, they would sh*t themselves playing a true PvP game and run back to RDO to help others pick poppies and violets.

Some not only don't know the difference, they say there is no such thing as griefing in the game and then try to claim others are ignorant.

Edited December 30, 2020 by StyxTx

[StyxTx]

On 12/23/2020 at 4:41 AM, Direwrath said:

That's not griefing, that is called a lesson to be learned. Once again why start a fight if you do not intend to play in the first place?

Yeah, those are the ones the annoy the hell out of me. Trying to be big and bad but then run off and hide like the pussies they are.

[Direwrath]

6 hours ago, StyxTx said:

Yeah, those are the ones the annoy the hell out of me. Trying to be big and bad but then run off and hide like the pussies they are.

These are the ones that really get to me too, they don't come along often but when they do they irk the hell out of me too. Most of them don't even face you head on, they shoot you in the back and switch servers before you can respawn and retaliate, that is not pvp. That's just cowardice to me. 

 

 

9 hours ago, DarksunDaFirst said:

People tend to forget, or are oblivious, to what true PvP vs PK vs PvP is.  Most don’t even understand the difference between PK and PvP.

I'm so gonna sound like a moron but what is PK? Please don't shoot me, I just started playing this online stuff with RDO so I'm not that educated.

[Excalibur Voltaire]

1 hour ago, Direwrath said:

what is PK

Player kill

[Direwrath]

1 hour ago, Western Gunslinger said:

Player kill

Thank you!

[zPhoenix]

Player kills *in mission and for the purpose of the mission* or when provoked are fine.

 

The problem is the jerks that use the excuse of player kills in other situations to grief.

 

For example there is no excuse to ambush a free roaming player, a player delivering a bounty once he arrived in town, or attacking a trader delivery wagon without even trying to steal it but just to use it as a way to harass he player.  Those are pure briefing and purely intended to ruin the other player's fun, not profit.

Edited December 30, 2020 by zPhoenix

[CaliMeatWagon]

On 12/22/2020 at 6:30 AM, Buddy Hightower said:

lol none of that is griefing.

The entire map is a pvp zone.

What do you expect when we live in a day and age where an individuals feelings are more important than facts and we can change definitions to suit our mood. 

[Lonely-Martin]

Still fishing there I see, Cali. Bless ya!

[StyxTx]

31 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Still fishing there I see, Cali. Bless ya!

Gotta give him credit. He taught me that there is no way I can tell the motive of a modder who just appears out of nowhere, literally, and kills me or a modder who sends all players on the server to one location and blows them up or sets them on fire. I'm so sure, thanks to this new knowledge, that the modders accidentally pushed the wrong buttons because they were actually there to help everyone accomplish things.

 

Every time I think of his "there is no such thing as griefing in the game" I can't help but crack up so he is good for entertainment purposes also.

Edited December 30, 2020 by StyxTx