Is the online intended to encourage griefing?

[eighthdoctor]

On 12/14/2020 at 6:35 AM, CaliMeatWagon said:

And this is why my opinion is that griefing is pretty much non-existent in the game. It is almost impossible to determine the intentions of the player (them wanting to kill you isn't enough, nor is the recipients feelings about the matter) and the game actively encourages players to kill others.

Griefing certainly isn't non-existent and you certainly can tell those kinds of players' intentions full well.

 

You can certainly tell the intentions when I was followed by a player driving a wagon just north of Saint Denis a few weeks back after I gave him a friendly wave hello and he made a beeline straight for me and followed every turn and direction that I did and almost drove straight into me at one point, only stopping following me once we were both out of those roads and farm fields on the city's outskirts and into the city itself.

 

You can certainly tell the intentions when 2 assh*les chased me from Bacchus Station down to Carmody Dell last night after I'd successfully completed a Trader sale (in Defensive Mode) when the 2-man posse leader (who were both showing up as pink player dots already) started with that sh*t. You can tell their intentions when the leader used his incendiary shotgun ammo on me while my back was to him and brought down my horse when we hadn't even interacted. He had spawned into the Bacchus Station area as I finished looting when the mission passed cutscene ended but didn't do anything until I started to leave the area. Him and his friend mostly used their incendiary rounds and dynamite arrows from the start.

 

So don't try and justify toxic playing styles as 'non-existent' and 'impossible to determine the intentions of the player'. 

[Buddy Hightower]

22 minutes ago, eighthdoctor said:

Griefing certainly isn't non-existent and you certainly can tell those kinds of players' intentions full well.

 

You can certainly tell the intentions when I was followed by a player driving a wagon just north of Saint Denis a few weeks back after I gave him a friendly wave hello and he made a beeline straight for me and followed every turn and direction that I did and almost drove straight into me at one point, only stopping following me once we were both out of those roads and farm fields on the city's outskirts and into the city itself.

 

You can certainly tell the intentions when 2 assh*les chased me from Bacchus Station down to Carmody Dell last night after I'd successfully completed a Trader sale (in Defensive Mode) when the 2-man posse leader (who were both showing up as pink player dots already) started with that sh*t. You can tell their intentions when the leader used his incendiary shotgun ammo on me while my back was to him and brought down my horse when we hadn't even interacted. He had spawned into the Bacchus Station area as I finished looting when the mission passed cutscene ended but didn't do anything until I started to leave the area. Him and his friend mostly used their incendiary rounds and dynamite arrows from the start.

 

So don't try and justify toxic playing styles as 'non-existent' and 'impossible to determine the intentions of the player'. 

It is a valid gameplay mechanic to attack any other player for any (or no) reason what-so-ever.

Therefore it is part of the game.

Therefore it is not griefing.

 

[jackedbanan]

14 minutes ago, Buddy Hightower said:

It is a valid gameplay mechanic to attack any other player for any (or no) reason what-so-ever.

Therefore it is part of the game.

Therefore it is not griefing.

 

yeah it is part of the game, but when the game itself is mostly grinding long hours for in-game items (items that can be bought with real money instead of grinding), you gotta give players a choice whether they would want to spend their valuable time trying to fend off bored dudes

[AmyStone]

1 minute ago, jackedbanan said:

yeah it is part of the game, but when the game itself is mostly grinding long hours for in-game items (items that can be bought with real money instead of grinding), you gotta give players a choice whether they would want to spend their valuable time trying to fend off bored dudes

 

When a game is a grind then it's time to find a new game.

[jackedbanan]

Just now, AmyStone said:

 

When a game is a grind then it's time to find a new game.

grinding is a placeholder name for the action of gathering in-game items, call it something else. I wouldn't make it to rank 230 and still play it daily if I actually believed the game is a grind

[StyxTx]

1 hour ago, Buddy Hightower said:

It is a valid gameplay mechanic to attack any other player for any (or no) reason what-so-ever.

Therefore it is part of the game.

Therefore it is not griefing.

 

Go back to whatever you're smoking.

43 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

 

When a game is a grind then it's time to find a new game.

 

What's funny about this logic is that they say they grief because they are bored with the game. Seems to me that it's time for them to find a new game if this one is boring.

[AmyStone]

3 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

What's funny about this logic is that they say they grief because they are bored with the game. Seems to me that it's time for them to find a new game if this one is boring.

 

Who does? I think most who grief do it because they enjoy it. If someone was truly bored with a game they would play something else.

[StyxTx]

What's also funny is these griefers on here who always say they do it because they are bored are admitting they are griefers. Their INTENT is to go in game and f*ck with people to satisfy their desire to not be bored and they freely admit that. We love pvp but don't like the game pvp challenges or whatever they're called, so we'll go f*ck with people who want nothing to do with us. Then they try to convince themselves that they aren't griefers, going as far as arguing over the definition of griefer. A griefer is someone who causes grief. The recipient of the actions determines if it's grief, not the instigator and their intentions. Nuff said about that.

 

People who find pleasure in that type of "play" have emotional or immaturity problems so whatever they come up with to rationalize their behavior is irrational.

 

Game mechanics allow it so I'm not a griefer. I mean, how delusional can one be? Life allows people to buy a gun and kill someone if they want. Does that make it ok? Of course not. A car allows you to steer into a crowd and kill everyone. Does that make it ok? Of course not. The game mechanics argument is total nonsense. We know it and they know it.

 

I can imagine what these people look like. The cliche 95 pound weakling and they need games like this to make themselves feel big and bad because in real life they can't stand up for themselves. Maybe they should stop playing the game so much and go spend time seeing someone who can help them with their low esteem so they won't have to wrap their egos up entirely in a game. Maybe spending some time in a gym may help them build themselves up so people will stop picking on them all the time too.

Edited December 19, 2020 by StyxTx

[sodoff]

32 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

 

 

What's funny about this logic is that they say they grief because they are bored with the game. Seems to me that it's time for them to find a new game if this one is boring.

 

Now that you mention it, griefing does seem to ease up after new content is out, for a while at least. Might be not all invalid, idle hands are the devils playthings you know ;)

 

But I'm actually on board with R*'s philosophy on this one. Cutting off free-roam pvp interaction too much would make for a mild-mild-west indeed. Forcing stuff on players is fine, it's their bottom line that takes the hit, we just move on. I stopped playing when they didn't do enough, fast enough to put the brakes on the free-roam pvp. They finally got off their ass and did something, I came back. I still want refinements in the hostility system, not gonna lie, but for now, it will suffice.

[Assblaster]

I've come across so many players who are bored of playing the various other aspects of the game, e.g. hunting, fishing, stranger missions, regular missions, moonshining, trader deliveries, bounty hunting, but all they do is go up and down the streets of towns, or wherever, just looking for players to f*ck over. They might be happier playing CoD or some other shooter. But for whatever reason they play a game the bulk of which (missions, bounties, treasure maps, etc etc.) they don't even get into.

 

Over time though they'll drift off to those other games. I think they'd be happier playing those games, because the defensive mechanics in this game put such aggressive players at a severe disadvantage.

[StyxTx]

21 hours ago, sodoff said:

 

Now that you mention it, griefing does seem to ease up after new content is out, for a while at least. Might be not all invalid, idle hands are the devils playthings you know

 

But I'm actually on board with R*'s philosophy on this one. Cutting off free-roam pvp interaction too much would make for a mild-mild-west indeed. Forcing stuff on players is fine, it's their bottom line that takes the hit, we just move on. I stopped playing when they didn't do enough, fast enough to put the brakes on the free-roam pvp. They finally got off their ass and did something, I came back. I still want refinements in the hostility system, not gonna lie, but for now, it will suffice.

Well the west was actually boring as hell IRL. People assume Hollywood's version of the west is how it was. Granted, the real life west would make for a boring game but if R* would put out quality content that takes more than a few days to accomplish it would be a big help. They need to speed up the pace of content drops. I was quite serious when I mentioned in another topic that at the rate they are going, at my age, I'll be dead before I have anything of substance to spend my money or gold on.

21 hours ago, Assblaster said:

I've come across so many players who are bored of playing the various other aspects of the game, e.g. hunting, fishing, stranger missions, regular missions, moonshining, trader deliveries, bounty hunting, but all they do is go up and down the streets of towns, or wherever, just looking for players to f*ck over. They might be happier playing CoD or some other shooter. But for whatever reason they play a game the bulk of which (missions, bounties, treasure maps, etc etc.) they don't even get into.

 

Over time though they'll drift off to those other games. I think they'd be happier playing those games, because the defensive mechanics in this game put such aggressive players at a severe disadvantage.

See, to me, just hanging out in a town waiting on people would drive me crazy with boredom. I have grown pretty bored with the game but rather than go on to f*ck with people I have other things in life I can do and other games I can play, which I've been doing for the past 5 weeks or so. Apparently those people's lives consist of sitting in their room 24/7 with nothing else to do.

 

I wish the would do away with autoaim also. Most of the problem would be solved right there. Those people would surely find some other game.

 

If those people really want the challenge they claim they want, they should enable free aim and then go try to shoot up towns or animals. It is a real challenge trying to do enemy camps or most of the random events on free aim. I guarantee it would be as challenging, if not more, than going after a player with autoaim. But they won't do that because they'd see they aren't as good as they think they are when they have to actually use skill which they really don't have. Would be funny to hear what excuses they would make for not wanting to do it.

 

I really miss the free aim lobbies.

Edited December 19, 2020 by StyxTx

[zPhoenix]

40 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

What's also funny is these griefers on here who always say they do it because they are bored are admitting they are griefers. Their INTENT is to go in game and f*ck with people to satisfy their desire to not be bored and they freely admit that. We love pvp but don't like the game pvp challenges or whatever they're called, so we'll go f*ck with people who want nothing to do with us. Then they try to convince themselves that they aren't griefers, going as far as arguing over the definition of a griefer. A griefer is someone who causes grief. Nuff said about that.

 

People who find pleasure in that type of "play" have emotional or immaturity problems so whatever they come up with to rationalize their behavior is irrational.

 

Game mechanics allow it so I'm not a griefer. I mean, how delusional can one be? Life allows people to buy a gun and kill someone if they want. Does that make it ok? Of course not. A car allows you to steer into a crowd and kill everyone. Does that make it ok? Of course not. The game mechanics argument is total nonsense. We know it and they know it.

 

I can imagine what these people look like. The cliche 95 pound weakling and they need games like this to make themselves feel big and bad because in real life they can't stand up for themselves. Maybe they should stop playing the game so much and go spend time seeing someone who can help them with their low esteem so they won't have to wrap their egos up entirely in a game. Maybe spending some time in a gym may help them build themselves up so people will stop picking on them all the time too.

 

You nailed the typical griefer to a T.

 

But why would R* cater to them?  In a game like RDO most players aren't into the griefing playstyle, most are decent people having fun and on occasion even helping a complete stranger.  Catering to the griefers almost certainly hurts R*'s pocketbook.

[Buddy Hightower]

1 hour ago, jackedbanan said:

yeah it is part of the game, but when the game itself is mostly grinding long hours for in-game items (items that can be bought with real money instead of grinding), you gotta give players a choice whether they would want to spend their valuable time trying to fend off bored dudes

I agree with this.

[StyxTx]

8 minutes ago, zPhoenix said:

 

You nailed the typical griefer to a T.

 

But why would R* cater to them?  In a game like RDO most players aren't into the griefing playstyle, most are decent people having fun and on occasion even helping a complete stranger.  Catering to the griefers almost certainly hurts R*'s pocketbook.

R* just goes out and puts Online on sale to draw in new, unsuspecting people who have no idea how broken the game is and how R* ignores the player base. Most of those people will be gone soon then I guess R* will have to try to attract a new crowd that will be around for a while then leave, then it'll be rinse and wash for R* until eventually that player pool will empty out. They aren't concerned with what happens down the road though. All that matters is how much they can help the bottom line now. The fact they felt the need to sell Online tells me things may not be as rosy as they want us to believe. They figure they will grab what they can now.

Edited December 18, 2020 by StyxTx

[zPhoenix]

1 minute ago, StyxTx said:

R* just goes out and puts Online on sale to draw in new, unsuspecting people who have no idea how broken the game is and how R* ignores the player base. Most of those people will be gone soon then I guess R* will have to try to attract a new crowd that will be around for a while. Eventually that pool will empty out.

 

Although I will agree that the game is quite buggy and even broken (especially in the griefing area, where simply ensuring that all missions reset you to defensive at the end would fix 90% of the major issues)... the game is still quite good and fun if you are wiling to put up with the problems.  I do hope they get their act together.

[StyxTx]

7 minutes ago, zPhoenix said:

 

Although I will agree that the game is quite buggy and even broken (especially in the griefing area, where simply ensuring that all missions reset you to defensive at the end would fix 90% of the major issues)... the game is still quite good and fun if you are wiling to put up with the problems.  I do hope they get their act together.

Yesterday morning when I was testing the server thing random events and LAs were popping up quite a bit. Last night, in 2 hours, not one. That is the broken stuff I'm talking about. Those random events give people other things to do. When I played a lot I liked variety. I'd do a moonshine run, then do some collecting, then trader stuff, stranger missions and throw in random stuff when they worked. Made the experience a lot more fun. For new players those things mean more money and items and tonics they can use, and an occasional treasure map. They are losing out on those.

Edited December 18, 2020 by StyxTx

[zPhoenix]

1 minute ago, StyxTx said:

Yesterday morning when I was testing the server thing random events and LAs were popping up quite a bit. Last night, in 2 hours, not one. That is the broken stuff I'm talking about. Those random events give people other things to do. When I played a lot I liked variety. I'd do a moonshine run, then do some collecting, then trader stuff and throw in random stuff when they worked.

 

Oh I see.  I am still playing with mouse and keyboard, so I don't touch random events that involve PvP... too much of a disadvantage.

[StyxTx]

5 minutes ago, zPhoenix said:

 

Oh I see.  I am still playing with mouse and keyboard, so I don't touch random events that involve PvP... too much of a disadvantage.

Random events aren't pvp. They are things like enemy hideouts, camp rescues, helping someone in need, ambushes, poacher animal rescues, etc. Maybe encounter is a better word.

Edited December 18, 2020 by StyxTx

[eighthdoctor]

2 hours ago, Buddy Hightower said:

It is a valid gameplay mechanic to attack any other player for any (or no) reason what-so-ever.

Therefore it is part of the game.

Therefore it is not griefing.

 

If you're attacking other players for no reason what so ever other than because you're bored or for sh*ts and giggles, then yes it is absolutely griefing. Other players aren't responsible for entertaining you and if you can't (ie. won't) leave them be, that's on you and you should consider playing something else entirely. Then again, I've seen your posts all over this forum that wind people up, that justify toxic playing styles and happily admitting to doing that yourself so you will forgive me for not agreeing on you with this.

[Buddy Hightower]

5 minutes ago, eighthdoctor said:

If you're attacking other players for no reason what so ever other than because you're bored or for sh*ts and giggles, then yes it is absolutely griefing. Other players aren't responsible for entertaining you and if you can't (ie. won't) leave them be, that's on you and you should consider playing something else entirely. Then again, I've seen your posts all over this forum that wind people up, that justify toxic playing styles and happily admitting to doing that yourself so you will forgive me for not agreeing on you with this.

Well until there is a friendly session option, it's a free for all. 

[zPhoenix]

29 minutes ago, Buddy Hightower said:

Well until there is a friendly session option, it's a free for all. 

 

Defensive is supposed to be the "friendly session option" but it is buggy and you end up in Offensive without noticing more often than not.

48 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

Random events aren't pvp. They are things like enemy hideouts, camp rescues, helping someone in need, ambushes, poacher animal rescues, etc. Maybe encounter is a better word.

 

Gotcha.  I do those all the time.  But you are right, sometimes they happen frequently and sometimes none for ages.

[StyxTx]

1 hour ago, Buddy Hightower said:

Well until there is a friendly session option, it's a free for all. 

How old are you? 12? You act like someone that age, seriously.

 

Change to free aim tough guy. Let's see how good you really are. You won't because you're too scared. Oh, you're so tough using your little auto aim. Wow, impressive. You're attitude suggests you're one of those griefers who doesn't actually go near the target. You hide up on a cliff to shoot someone fishing down by the river and stuff like that cuz you know you can't defend yourself if you had to. In fact, you once mentioned shooting people from a bridge. Coward. All talk.

 

So what was that about there being no griefers in RDRO? Here is your proof. Read his numerous posts. This guy has some serious personal issues.

 

If you're on PC I hope so much I run across you. I never go after players but for you I'll make an exception. If you're on PS I have some friends on there that I'm sure would love to run across you. Just remember, YOU said it's a free for all.

 

All I need is the name you use in game so we'll know you if we run across you, but I'm sure you don't want to give that out.

Edited December 18, 2020 by StyxTx

[Buddy Hightower]

12 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

How old are you? 12? You act like someone that age, seriously.

 

Change to free aim tough guy. Let's see how good you really are. You won't because you're too scared. Oh, you're so tough using your little auto aim. Wow, impressive. You're attitude suggests you're one of those griefers who doesn't actually go near the target. You hide up on a cliff to shoot someone fishing down by the river and stuff like that cuz you know you can't defend yourself if you had to. In fact, you once mentioned shooting people from a bridge. Coward. All talk.

 

So what was that about there being no griefers in RDRO? Here is your proof. Read his numerous posts. This guy has some serious personal issues.

 

If you're on PC I hope so much I run across you. Just remember, YOU said it's a free for all.

wow why are you angry?

It's a game dude, can't help if if you don't like it.

I suck at free aim with a controller but hop into warzone and i'll play a few rounds with you from my pc.

Win or lose i'll have fun and you'll still be angry.

[StyxTx]

Not angry at all. I am glad you admit you don't use free aim but at the same time you act like you're all that when using auto aim. ANYONE can fight with auto aim. You ain't special dude.

 

You're one who claims you're bored so turn on free aim and go do events and missions. I guarantee it won't be boring, if boredom is your ONLY reason for griefing. It's a lot more challenging then sitting on some bridge and killing someone with a sniper rifle. Better yet, go find another game that isn't boring.

 

It is a game but not your personal playground to do whatever you want to anyone you want. Since it's just a game let others play it without your infantile actions, ok? Thank you. Others don't want to play the game with you, well anyone over 12 years old anyway.

Edited December 18, 2020 by StyxTx

[Buddy Hightower]

4 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

Not angry at all. I am glad you admit you don't use free aim but at the same time you act like you're all that when using auto aim. ANYONE can fight with auto aim. You ain't special dude.

 

You're one who claims you're bored so turn on free aim and go do events and missions. I guarantee it won't be boring, if boredom is your only reason for griefing.

 

Since it's just a game let others play it without your infantile actions, ok? Thank you.

act like all what, I rarely attack others. 

All i have ever said is that if someone chooses to attack anyone for any (or no) reason, that it is simply part of the game you signed up for.

You seem very angry to me.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Buddy Hightower

[CosmicBuffalo]

46 minutes ago, Buddy Hightower said:

act like all what, I rarely attack others. 

All i have ever said is that if someone chooses to attack anyone for any (or no) reason, that it is simply part of the game you signed up for.

You seem very angry to me.

Yet R* has placed griefing on a list of reasons to report people...then does absolutely nothing to people reported for griefing.  So, R* explicitly states griefing is an issue.  So your and any other definition is irrelevant.  The issue is whether it is encouraged not whether its present.   And so by doing nothing to reported griefers, R* in a subtle way encourages griefers. There are multiple ways to grief players in this game.  Do players consent to parley work arounds and off the radar random attacks just by playing?  

Edited December 18, 2020 by CosmicBuffalo

[roggek]

A solution would be to set a "Gold bar" fine of say 50 Goldbars, if your hostility "goes on red" after a player in defensive press charges against a griefer...

And put the hostile players on a Scrawny nag by default, for 30 minutes straight...

 

Then possibly griefers should think twice, before attacking someone in "defensive mode"...
Could be an "very expensive lesson"...

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by roggek

[GrungeNinja]

33 minutes ago, roggek said:

A solution would be to set a "Gold bar" fine of say 50 Goldbars, if your hostility "goes on red" after a player in defensive press charges against a griefer...

A system like this Im sure it would make things pretty interesting. Instead of a few dollars on a player bounty, when they kill other players in Defensive and those press charges, the bounty would become 1 gold bar, being increased each time the agressor kill a defensive player.

 

To prevent  abuse, friends can’t partake in the mission.

Edited December 18, 2020 by GrungeNinja

[StyxTx]

3 hours ago, Buddy Hightower said:

act like all what, I rarely attack others. 

All i have ever said is that if someone chooses to attack anyone for any (or no) reason, that it is simply part of the game you signed up for.

You seem very angry to me.

With whatever drug you're using whatever you perceive is pretty irrelevant.

 

I guess you've forgotten some of your past remarks but drugs do affect memory.

 

1 hour ago, GrungeNinja said:

A system like this Im sure it would make things pretty interesting. Instead of a few dollars on a player bounty, when they kill other players in Defensive and those press charges, the bounty would become 1 gold bar, being increased each time the agressor kill a defensive player.

 

To prevent  abuse, friends can’t partake in the mission.

Keep them red for 24 real time hours and let them be seen no matter where they are on the map or what server they run and try to hide on. People then have a choice to avoid them or go after them. I have to give credit to those that stay around after killing but the ones that kill and then jump servers.....pussies big time.

 

A long time ago dark red players could be seen regardless of location. We used to watch those players and posses on the map when they were way across the map. Once we were watching on the map as one posse was blocking every road into Strawberry. Obviously I couldn't determine their INTENT, but you know. 

 

Anyway, for some reason R* took that away. Griefers were probably crying about it too much. We can't hide! We can't hide! Waaa Waaa

Edited December 18, 2020 by StyxTx

[Direwrath]

2 hours ago, roggek said:

A solution would be to set a "Gold bar" fine of say 50 Goldbars, if your hostility "goes on red" after a player in defensive press charges against a griefer...

And put the hostile players on a Scrawny nag by default, for 30 minutes straight...

 

Then possibly griefers should think twice, before attacking someone in "defensive mode"...
Could be an "very expensive lesson"...

 

I cannot love this suggestion enough!

 

34 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

Keep them red for 24 real time hours and let them be seen no matter where they are on the map or what server they run and try to hide on. People then have a choice to avoid them or go after them. I have to give credit to those that stay around after killing but the ones that kill and then jump servers.....pussies big time.

 

A long time ago dark red players could be seen regardless of location. We used to watch those players and posses on the map when they were way across the map. Once we were watching on the map as one posse was blocking every road into Strawberry. Obviously I couldn't determine their INTENT, but you know. 

 

Anyway, for some reason R* took that away. Griefers were probably crying about it too much. We can't hide! We can't hide! Waaa Waaa

Yeah lately they shoot you in the back and jump servers.  

 

Other players deserve the right to see whether or not others on their server are going to start trouble, that way they can avoid them like the plaque. Or they can decide that they want to push their own brand of justice on that trigger happy player or players.

This idea is actually ingenious in a way because this will promote the pvp that some players are looking for, as there are some players who like to go after the troublemakers. And this in place will detail the griefers location throughout the whole map, and the fact that the player is actually a nuisance on the server.

Maybe they need to make it so that the players shooting defensive players get a different icon or color on the map, that way we don't see regular players killing NPCs or who retaliate against an attack as the offending player.  I kind of wanna know exactly who my target is before I engage because I will not shoot at a player who has done nothing wrong.

 

Also when I get bored I challenge myself with tasks, explore the map, or just take some peace and ride my horse across the map and see what comes up. If that doesn't keep me entertained I jump into story mode or leave the game, I will never interfere with another player just because I am bored. To me that seems like an entitled response. *shrugs*