Is the online intended to encourage griefing?

[netnow66]

26 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

...you're tolerances are different by nature so it may be harder to notice too. What I may see as a griefer, you guys might see as just another player. 

And THAT is what I see as the main explanation for the disparity. 

 

I'm on PSN, play in defensive, play a female character and I dress only in the starting overalls. When in regular lobbies, I was attacked at least twice a day (my sessions tend to be hours on end, so I guess that might have something to do with it also).

 

The last post in our When Justice Is Served thread was posted on November 23 and those posts and videos on various sites (such as YouTube) highlight what is going on to me. That's too frequent to be described as rare occurrences to me.

 

Many here see getting popped in the head when you're at the butcher or fishing as business as usual. Others here do not. I've said it before, I'll say it again--when I have to play this game the way Rockstar wants me to, I'll probably walk away.

Edited December 7, 2020 by netnow66

[DentureDynamite]

5 minutes ago, netnow66 said:

And THAT is what I see as the main explanation for the disparity. 

 

I'm on PSN, play in defensive, play a female character and I dress only in the starting overalls. When in regular lobbies, I was attacked at least twice a day (my sessions tend to be hours on end, so I guess that might have something to do with it also).

 

The last post in our When Justice Is Served thread was posted on November 23 and those posts and videos on various sites (such as YouTube) highlight what is going on to me. That's too frequent to be described as rare occurrences to me.

 

Many here see getting popped in the head when you're at the butcher or fishing as business as usual. Others here do not. I've said it before, I'll say it again--when I have to play this game the way Rockstar wants me to, I'll probably walk away.

And those videos are only a small sample of what's going on in the game; how many players post every encounter with a griefer to the forums or YouTube?

 

I sure don't, but I was annoyed by two idiots over the weekend.

[4eyedcoupe]

5 minutes ago, DentureDynamite said:

 

 

I sure don't, but I was annoyed by two idiots over the weekend.

I don't run into griefers too often, but I did run into a moron who was just shooting my moonshine wagon over the weekend.  I don't get it, they get no reward from it.  I hopped off my wagon, watched him run up and just shoot the wagon.  I just switched sessions.  Now that to me would be what I consider a griefer...unless there is some reward that I am not aware of for attacking moonshine wagons.  ANYWAYS...To your point, I saved the vid because I thought it was rather funny, not to post it on youtube and share here.  The vid that I did post on youtube was of XP on my outlaw pass freezing. 

[StyxTx]

2 hours ago, roggek said:

On RDO PC version, of course...

 

Playing RDO on console is at most times a joyful experience, but not said that griefers are prevalent there too.

PC is mostly modders. Your normal griefers aren't as abundant as on consoles. At least with griefers you can go back at them. Modders, nothing you can do but leave the server.

[StyxTx]

15 hours ago, Rez090 said:

-That notification only applies to the enemy NPCs. You also had a better fighting chance, defensive means you take less damage from players. You could've shot their horse faster than they can take you down.

-This isn't actually common, they won't risk hitting you because they can also die from the dismount. If you're in defensive, you can kill them back without penalties, I don't know why you said it the other way around. Unless you're claiming the other player is also in defensive, in which case they can't ram you at all.

 

 

Not true on PC. Modders can take you out of defensive just by attacking you. I've had it happen numerous times. I have no proof they were modders, I just assume it since defensive is not supposed to disengage when you are attacked. I actually have a suspicion R* has cut back on the effectiveness of defensive. About the only thing that seems to work is the inability to lock on you, but even there I have seen players do it to me no matter how much I zigged, zagged, or whatever, but they were probably modders as well. I also have had many times when I was killed in one shot while doing evasive maneuvers in defensive.

 

Also, the idea that you can be attacked while in your camp is absurd. The moonshine shack is the only safe haven you have from normal griefers.

Edited December 7, 2020 by StyxTx

[1898]

1 hour ago, Lonely-Martin said:

 

That said, if like you/Amy/others feel there's no griefing or have a different view on it, your tolerances are different by nature so it may be harder to notice too. What I may see as a griefer, you guys might see as just another player. 

 

I don't think my tolerances are that much different than most, I just can't help but think there's something else going on. 

 

I'm sure the number of times I've been attacked is less than 10, more like 5 or 6, with a total playing time of 985 hours/10 days. I'd be curious how that compares to everyone else. PS4, Eastern U.S.

[StyxTx]

43 minutes ago, 1898 said:

I don't think my tolerances are that much different than most, I just can't help but think there's something else going on. 

 

I'm sure the number of times I've been attacked is less than 10, more like 5 or 6, with a total playing time of 985 hours/10 days. I'd be curious how that compares to everyone else. PS4, Eastern U.S.

It's a lot less likely to happen if you stay near wooded areas and avoid the wide open spaces and towns as much as possible. Time of day also makes a big difference. If you're on when most kids are supposed to be in bed it will happen a lot less. I've actually rarely come across griefers in over 3500 hours of playing between PS4 and PC since beta. Most of the ones I have run across killed me while I was fishing or some other activity like that then they leave the server or posses. You know, the big, bad tough people who are to afraid to actually come deal with you face to face and alone. Modders on the other hand.....

Edited December 7, 2020 by StyxTx

[DentureDynamite]

8 minutes ago, 1898 said:

I don't think my tolerances are that much different than most, I just can't help but think there's something else going on. 

 

I'm sure the number of times I've been attacked is less than 10, more like 5 or 6, with a total playing time of 985 hours/10 days. I'd be curious how that compares to everyone else. PS4, Eastern U.S.

Probably around 20 times for me (PS4 and PC combined); maybe more.

 

You could look at that and say, "meh; not much for the hours played", but those run-ins really tick me off because they're a waste of time I never asked for.

 

More than that, they're a reminder of what R* is not-so-subtly trying to encourage.

Edited December 7, 2020 by DentureDynamite

[StyxTx]

An excerpt from Rockstar North co-head Rob Nelson's discussion of roles:

 

The hope is these unique roles encourage players to intermingle in interesting ways, even those normally more inclined to keep to themselves. This overarching philosophy is why Rockstar is so apprehensive to introduce elements like a passive mode that walls off players from each other or free-aim servers that split the player base. "It would be easier for us to do that then what we're trying to do here, which is allow people to still feel like they are existing in the world that has an element of Wild Westiness to it and not completely make it two experiences," Nelson says. "If we can't get the balancing right then we can always do that, but what we're trying to do is allow people to, however they want to play the game, interact with the world and still feel like they're all part of the same world together. Where we think it works best and when it's the most fun is if you are actually able to roleplay in this world to a certain degree."

 

Hell, they can't get the game to function with just 12 people lobbies but they still refuse to do anything about it. Basically, whatever this dude said is BS. Personally, I would love a split player base, free aim lobbies and auto aim lobbies. They did have separate lobbies for a while but removed them. The intermingling thing (griefing and modders) may just be what they want.

 

Now, this part is truly BS:

 

Achieving this goal won’t be easy, which is why Rockstar turns to the community to help determine the ways these systems should evolve over time. “With single-player, you develop over a fairly lengthy period of time largely in isolation with your team, and then it comes out, and hopefully people like it and it resonates,” Nelson says. “But the online component is more of a back and forth, almost like a conversation with the people playing it. You get to keep working on it in an interactive way.”

 

They ignore what players scream for, over and over. Maybe someone who got off the boat 5 minutes ago will buy that line of hogwash....

Edited December 7, 2020 by StyxTx

[Lonely-Martin]

24 minutes ago, 1898 said:

I don't think my tolerances are that much different than most, I just can't help but think there's something else going on. 

 

I'm sure the number of times I've been attacked is less than 10, more like 5 or 6, with a total playing time of 985 hours/10 days. I'd be curious how that compares to everyone else. PS4, Eastern U.S.

To be honest, timing could come into it indeed. I can only play between 3pm-6pm in the UK, and that's surely right when the kids come out of school but before dinner time.

 

Unfortunately like normal parents, I just got a busy life to play any other time than peak hours. Ahh well. Just sucks that my time can be wasted so easily. 

[Assblaster]

I'm always getting griefers galore in Valentine...just awhile ago some witch dressed all in white blew up my horse while I was in the hotel looking for collectibles. I had to torch her with incendiary buckshot: I hate when they go after my horse. I suppose they're right to grief me though, I'm a menace to society after all. 

[Lonely-Martin]

29 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

An excerpt from Rockstar North co-head Rob Nelson's discussion of roles:

 

The hope is these unique roles encourage players to intermingle in interesting ways, even those normally more inclined to keep to themselves. This overarching philosophy is why Rockstar is so apprehensive to introduce elements like a passive mode that walls off players from each other or free-aim servers that split the player base. "It would be easier for us to do that then what we're trying to do here, which is allow people to still feel like they are existing in the world that has an element of Wild Westiness to it and not completely make it two experiences," Nelson says. "If we can't get the balancing right then we can always do that, but what we're trying to do is allow people to, however they want to play the game, interact with the world and still feel like they're all part of the same world together. Where we think it works best and when it's the most fun is if you are actually able to roleplay in this world to a certain degree."

 

Hell, they can't get the game to function with just 12 people lobbies but they still refuse to do anything about it. Basically, whatever this dude said is BS. Personally, I would love a split player base, free aim lobbies and auto aim lobbies. They did have separate lobbies for a while but removed them. The intermingling thing (griefing and modders) may just be what they want.

 

Now, this part is truly BS:

 

Achieving this goal won’t be easy, which is why Rockstar turns to the community to help determine the ways these systems should evolve over time. “With single-player, you develop over a fairly lengthy period of time largely in isolation with your team, and then it comes out, and hopefully people like it and it resonates,” Nelson says. “But the online component is more of a back and forth, almost like a conversation with the people playing it. You get to keep working on it in an interactive way.”

All that bullsh*t about splitting the playerbase, when they know that it had zero effect on GTA:O is why I laugh at them and their media nonsense. It's like they're deliberately not wanting this game to appeal to all types of players.

 

That and with only 12-30 in a lobby (depending on what era of RDRO we consider), the playerbase is already split! What comedy.

 

PvP and PvE can't mix when PvP players can freely attack those seeking a PvE experience. I cannot role play when others literally are stopping it. 

 

And the part about listening, absolute horse crap. They just slapped a plaster over it and went deaf again, pressing forward with their grand plan regardless. This interview shows just how complacent, ignorant or deliberate the company has become.

 

GTA:O is a worldwide phenomenon because all playerbases can thrive. The casino heist was such a huge hit for them and that can be done from any lobby we choose, communities thrive by finding others on places like this forum too. Look at the way many crews grew so huge over the years. Be it heisters, racers, role players, and PvP groups alike.

 

If they took away invite only lobbies, I'm certain the playerbase would drastically sink. Just give us our playground and we'll make things happen. That's been proven resoundly by GTA:O so much. Minecraft is another fine example, huge differing communities out there, all they give us is that freedom and it soars.

 

This game is actively being held back IMHO. The only reason for not enabling lobby choices and letting communities grow independently of each other like GTA and keeping us all clashing, is to enable grief.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Lonely-Martin
Wording.

[StyxTx]

If I'm inclined to keep to myself, that's the way I am. That means, obviously, I have no desire to intermingle with people other than friends and that won't change regardless of what R* thinks I should do.

Edited December 7, 2020 by StyxTx

[Lonely-Martin]

4 minutes ago, StyxTx said:

If I'm inclined to keep to myself, that's the way I am. That means, obviously, I have no desire to intermingle with people other than friends and that won't change regardless of what R* thinks I should do..

Nothing irks me more than trying to play in a sandbox and being told how to play.

 

It's why I can embrace GTA so much over this game so much more. This game is far better than GTA for my tastes and the world we play in, but it's just not got the flexibility I grew to love that GTA embraces still to this day.

 

I just can't understand why R* can't see that and are still so keen to push us into.playing their game, not ours out there. It's like it's made for children that need guidance.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Lonely-Martin

[DentureDynamite]

18 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Nothing irks me more than trying to play in a sandbox and being told how to play.

Yeah, I love how Nakey Jakey likened it to playing with legos and having your older brother come in and tell you how to play (such a good video--absolutely nails it).

 

R* is just full of themselves and won't listen even to simple, logical reasoning:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvJPKOLDSos

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by DentureDynamite

[travilanche]

On 12/6/2020 at 11:39 AM, 1898 said:

Maybe they could reduce griefing simply by giving them something to do. Something similar to Land Grab from RDR1 except keep it out of the main settlements.  I used to like LG, one reason being it was one of the few PvP modes I could occasionally win.

Everything from the original game should have been in RDRO from launch. And then subsequently built upon. The first one was so much god damn fun.  

[StyxTx]

41 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

I just can't understand why R* can't see that and are still so keen to push us into.playing their game, not ours out there. It's like it's made for children that need guidance.

Funny you should say that. I was going to add to my comment that my parents have been gone for decades and I don't need R* to take their place but I decided not to say it.

Edited December 7, 2020 by StyxTx

[netnow66]

1 hour ago, 1898 said:

I don't think my tolerances are that much different than most, I just can't help but think there's something else going on. 

 

I'm sure the number of times I've been attacked is less than 10, more like 5 or 6, with a total playing time of 985 hours/10 days. I'd be curious how that compares to everyone else. PS4, Eastern U.S.

5 or 6? Hell, I've been attacked more than that in one session (but I have been logged in for 24+  hour sessions, so...).

 

I've been here since beta, on PSN, playing CST. Yes, it was worse earlier on but, as I mentioned previously, someone tried to pop me as soon as I logged in a day ago on my way to a nicer lobby. I couldn't even get settled into my saddle comfortably (admittedly, I believe I was in Tumbleweed at the time). Yes, I play on regular lobbies sometimes, just to "put a toe in the water" and I always find them more trouble than they are worth because of griefing players.

[CaliMeatWagon]

18 hours ago, Direwrath said:

I am laughing and shaking my head at this one...

 

Are you a murder hobo?

Yes... the guy who spends almost all of his time in this game spreadsheeting it so people don't have to do any thinking for themselves, is a murder hobo... 

Good job champ!

[StyxTx]

1 hour ago, DentureDynamite said:

Yeah, I love how Nakey Jakey likened it to playing with legos and having your older brother come in and tell you how to play (such a good video--absolutely nails it).

 

R* is just full of themselves and won't listen even to simple, logical reasoning:

  Reveal hidden contents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvJPKOLDSos

 

 

He is right about not being allowed to be creative. There were any number of times I thought out a good, stealth plan only to fail because that wasn't in the script (SP).

 

In a way the same is true about R*'s thinking about how the online game is played. They claim we can play our way but that is not true. They talked about people selecting a role to follow as their own experience, everyone creating a unique path, or as unique as is possible in a game, but the expansions are so slow who will lock themselves into just one role? EVERYONE maxes out every role. Everyone's experience is the same online. To me, that is not the definition of "my way". That is R*'s way.

Edited December 7, 2020 by StyxTx

[yeezy203]

It's very rare for me to get griefed or someone try to grief me these days. Usually happens to me during moonshine sales or this weekend during an infamous bounty mission. Was going to a location when I passed a few players. Turns out they were a posse. I randomly get headshotted while passing them. I usually let one slide, but I saw them closing in on me so I ran to some wooded area, put explosive ammo in my revolver and picked them off. Annoying yes, but it is very fulfilling when you can fight off a posse of 4. They ran off after a few kills. 

[Rez090]

7 hours ago, netnow66 said:

(don't long distance deliveries switch you to offensive too?)

Yes

[beachfan12]

Made the mistake of joining a posse, turned out they were a bunch of griefers riding around doing nothing except attacking other players.

 

I left and deleted the couple I had as friends on ps....all of a sudden they are spawning right beside me whenever I log in, no matter what part of the map, different server or whatever, killing me, blowing up my trader wagons etc, 5 of them each time, went to my friends list and there were 5 of them that were 'following' me so I assumed they could join any session of mine right next to me, which is ridiculous.

 

Anyway I blocked them all and that was that. And Rockstar wonders why we want to do our own thing and stuff or at least have the option. 

[wangsparkinglot]

I have been playing since launch in defensive mode approx half of the time and have had my moonshine attacked twice and never had my trader goods attacked

 

I have had literally maybe 50 times where i have been attacked for no reason from another player

 

its the most peaceful game I have ever played

Edited December 8, 2020 by wangsparkinglot

[Direwrath]

7 hours ago, CaliMeatWagon said:

Yes... the guy who spends almost all of his time in this game spreadsheeting it so people don't have to do any thinking for themselves, is a murder hobo... 

Good job champ!

Whoa, take that attitude down a notch there bud! I have no idea who you are, or how you play the game.

 

I was simply shaking my head at the notion that you state that there are no griefers in this game, which is factually untrue. Because in one way or another they do actually exist, they have become rarer on the consoles as the year went by due to R* fixing the code that they would use to grief. But for pc they can still be seen running wild.

And as others have stated, the face of a griefer is all in the opinion of the ones being aggrieved. *shrug*

 

And I thought the term "murder hobos" sounded rather funny, btw. I was just joking with you.

No need to get defensive and all?

 

3 hours ago, wangsparkinglot said:

I have been playing since launch in defensive mode approx half of the time and have had my moonshine attacked twice and never had my trader goods attacked

 

I have had literally maybe 50 times where i have been attacked for no reason from another player

 

its the most peaceful game I have ever played

During the first few weeks of Beta the game was a bit more violent, but in a fun way. I remember a player chasing my posse down and urging us to head to Valentine with them, where at least half of the server was hanging out and we had nothing but drunken bar fighting and mock gunfights in the streets. But back then we had nothing else to do and everything to gain by stopping other player's missions, etc.

Once it became about the game more players became a serious about how they played and things started to change, I am one of those players. 

I'm not saying that I do not like resistance, because I love avenging myself against players who shoot me in the back. And I look forward to players trying to steal my escort missions out from under me. But it just does not happen all that often anymore. 

[Krommer]

 

I mostly never have people screw with me anymore, it is quite rare for me (Xbox One, usually on after 5:30 am in the morning after work, but any times

over the weekend.) 

 

Lately, even in lobbies that seem to be full capacity, I hardly encounter another player at all! I'm playing for hours and hours sometimes.

If I do see a person on the map, they are nearly always in a shop or also doing something.

 

I noticed it originally die WAY down when frontier pursuits were added, then even more when new stuff was added after that, then more when the lobbies

shrank way down and then stayed about the same when they went up 11-14 people again.

 

I think part of the problem is the game encourages you to "grief;" I'll be doing my thing and see, "Switch to offensive mode to see a rival's mission." 

Well if someone was already in offensive mode, or if they were a newer player and told that, they might just see it as part of the game?

Almost all of my missions are in defensive mode, unless I'm doing a long distance trader delivery with only one good  for the daily (so it would not be a huge deal to me anyway,

but I still knock an explosive round and blow away a player turning red and coming after me, which has only happened once in a blue moon)

[STNeish]

I haven't encountered it for a while, but had a couple of incidents the other day in Tumbleweed.  I had just left a poker game, and was outside the saloon.  I went to the bathroom, and while I was there, someone decided to come up and kill my character, who was just standing there.  When I got back, I commented in voicechat that it's kind of poor behaviour to kill someone who is afk (I probably shouldn't have, but I noticed the player was L7 and thought perhaps he might be teachable).  The response was that the same guy waited around until I was in the process of mounting my horse and he ran over both me and my horse.  Again, pretty cowardly when I wasn't in any position to fight back.  Strangely, the game made ME pay to revive my horse.

 

But, thankfully, it doesn't happen often.  Either way, I'd rather have THAT than the hacking.

[kcole4001]

14 hours ago, AmyStone said:

I'm curious where people usually encounter griefers. Over the weekend I played for a large number of hours and visited just about every area of the map. Not once did someone randomly shoot at me. In fact it's extremely rare for that to happen. Are there certain activities that I'm not taking part in where it happens more?

I usually found them in Valentine hanging around across the street from the butcher.

 

There were often quite a few in StDenis or the approaches along the rail line.

 

14 hours ago, 1898 said:

I've wondered since day one why so many are constantly griefed and I can roam for days and days and no one lays a hand on me.

 

Is it regional or are we all connecting to same servers regardless of location or internet speed?

 

Do female characters get attacked more than grey-haired male characters like mine?

 

Do the same type of players somehow get placed into the same lobbies based on play style?

 

Probably answer to all of the above is no so I don't understand why some players are constantly harassed.

 

 

When I started keeping a list of the exploiting or cheating types, it was most often people from Brazil or China.

I'm in Eastern Canada, so I couldn't say it's a time zone thing.

Most of the time I'm pretty sure they can't tell my character's gender: either they're waiting outside a building I'm in or barrelling across a field on a wagon while I'm looking through a menu or plotting a waypoint on the map.

 

14 hours ago, zPhoenix said:

I get griefed about 3-4 times a day, usually by people camping the sheriff's office to interfere with bounty delivery.  I always report them but I don't think it has any effect.

• Note that when it happens I am usually in Defensive mode (it definitely happens more in Offensive), and without a bounty on me.
• It is very intentional, as it usually happens inside the "presumed safe zone" just before reaching the delivery point, and the players are either waiting in ambush or barrel in when they see you on the map.  They might also shoot to spook or kill my horse the moment I get off.

The other very common scenario is when people intentionally ram you trying to provoke you to shoot back at them.

 

The biggest issue I have with the system is that they can blow you up with dynamite or set you on fire with thrown combustibles and they don't get put in offensive for this.

You have to wait for them to hit you with direct fire before you can retaliate without the game deciding that you are the aggressor.

So you can either stand there and wait for them to aim carefully for a headshot kill, or run around and wait for them to score a lucky hit (because they are often really bad at freeaim) before you're free to return fire.

It's like being a UN Peacekeeper FFS.

The rules of engagement favour the assholes.

 

===================================

 

For the record, I've seen far more cheaters than griefers (on PC).

The vast majority of players I've come across since PC launch are busy with their moneymaking and have no interest in bothering you (contrary to a previously posted opinion that very few players are defensive by nature and that most people love complete chaos).

But those that are intent on hassling others are not the slightest bit shy of using glitches, exploits and outright cheats to get the advantage.

When I felt like engaging them (even odds or at 1-2) and they did fight fairly, they were not very good without relying on PiB to do their aiming for them.

And I'm not a long time shooter player at all, I'm at best mediocre at pvp, it's really not something I'm interested in.

[jazzbone]

I interview R*'s top pr person. Ok, it was only a recent day dream i had.

So why no private lobby option in RDO?..... We don't want to split the player base.
Seriously? .... We want intermingling, lots of intermingling. Must have massive intermingling.
Private lobbies stop intermingling? .... Yes because it splits the player base.
Private lobbies effect intermingling in public lobbies? .... Yes! You doubt R* experts?
Seriously?.... Yes R* wants maximum intermingling.
Private lobbies work well in GTA. .... Top R* intel agents determine that to be only rumours.
Not so, it works great and players love it. .... No it splits the player base.
Say what??? .... Private lobby bad, bad. Public lobby good, good.

What about superior game performance in RDO solo lobbies? .... Rumours, all rumours.
No it is not rumours, i have experienced so myself. .... Rumours, evil rumours.
Really, seriously?

This is where the R* pr person with closed eyes, with hands covering ears, repeatedly shouted "Evil rumours".

Edited December 8, 2020 by jazzbone

[CaliMeatWagon]

2 hours ago, Direwrath said:

Whoa, take that attitude down a notch there bud! I have no idea who you are, or how you play the game.

 

I was simply shaking my head at the notion that you state that there are no griefers in this game, which is factually untrue. Because in one way or another they do actually exist, they have become rarer on the consoles as the year went by due to R* fixing the code that they would use to grief. But for pc they can still be seen running wild.

And as others have stated, the face of a griefer is all in the opinion of the ones being aggrieved. *shrug*

If you can't handle a bit of attitude, maybe the internet isn't for you. Just saying. 
Also, pro tip, if you don't know what something is, don't ask people if they are it.

Now it has been defined multiple times, griefing does not really on the perception of the individual, but the intention of the "griefer". Go back to page one and you'll see multiple definitions, all with this underlying theme. But instead of going with established definitions, you, and others like you, have ignored them and instead have gone with what you FEEL is the definition. 
Because I doubt you'll go back to page one and actually read the previous comments, here is some common definitions of griefer (with key words highlighted) :
 

"A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game (trolling), using aspects of the game in unintended ways.[1] A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities. To qualify as griefing, a player must be using aspects of the game in unintended ways to annoy other players—if they are trying to gain a strategic advantage, it is instead called 'cheating'."

Here is another:
"an online game player who intentionally spoils the game for other players"

And another:
"(in an online game or community) a person who harasses or deliberately provokes other players or members in order to spoil their enjoyment."

Notice the key theme here? It all hinges on the INTENTIONS of the "griefer", not your feelings about them.