Is the online intended to encourage griefing?

[zPhoenix]

7 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

I don't think it's encouraged. Anyone who's been around since the beta will know they have made changes that make it harder to grief. But this is a miltiplayer open world game. If people want to grief they will. 

It might not be encouraged in words, but it seems encouraged by R* in action.  This is what I mean:

• They intentionally made Defensive mode incomplete, as it still allows people to still shoot you and your horse.
• They intentionally switch you from Defensive to Offensive mode when you do missions and don't switch you back to your default at the end of the mission.
• They intentionally chose to allow player attacks during missions.

Why would they do that unless they want to encourage some amount of griefing... while still claiming that they are against it?  Seems very wrong to me.

[AmyStone]

3 minutes ago, zPhoenix said:

It might not be encouraged in words, but it seems encouraged by R* in action.  This is what I mean:

• They intentionally made Defensive mode incomplete, as it still allows people to still shoot you and your horse.
• They intentionally switch you from Defensive to Offensive mode when you do missions and don't switch you back to your default at the end of the mission.
• They intentionally chose to allow player attacks during missions.

Why would they do that unless they want to encourage some amount of griefing... while still claiming that they are against it?  Seems very wrong to me.

I think defensive mode is supposed to be more realistic than full passive mode like in GTA. There was always a problem with passive mode the way it was done in GTA where people could abuse it but it's a lot harder for people to abuse defensive.

 

Well when you're going a mission other players are supposed to be able to attack you and disrupt it. If someone does then that's not really greifing because it's how the game was designed. 

 

I think maybe you're confusing encouraging griefing to not really caring that much if it happens. They have done a lot to make it harder though. They wouldn't have done that if they were encouraging it.

[Rez090]

19 hours ago, zPhoenix said:

- Even when defensive is on you (or your horse) get attacked.  Today I was posse'd up with my son and we were just in front of the jail waiting for the clock to run down.  The screen message said that nobody could interact with us because we were close enough to the destination... but bull... the moment I got off the horse to take down the prisoner they fired, first to spook the horse, then to kill it, then to kill me, repeatedly.  Luckily we managed to kill them off, recover the prisoner and deposit it with seconds to spare, but the intent was pure and absolute to grief.

- Also, it is extremely common for players to ram into you and by doing so they either kill you or they are able to initiate combat without the penalties.

 

There is also a major problem with PvP:  Those who play with a controller are at a massive advantage due to aim assist.  Those using pure keyboard and mouse will usually get creamed in a due against a player on a controller... due to the auto-lock-on.

-That notification only applies to the enemy NPCs. You also had a better fighting chance, defensive means you take less damage from players. You could've shot their horse faster than they can take you down.

-This isn't actually common, they won't risk hitting you because they can also die from the dismount. If you're in defensive, you can kill them back without penalties, I don't know why you said it the other way around. Unless you're claiming the other player is also in defensive, in which case they can't ram you at all.

 

The auto-lock on is a settings issue, You choose whether to use auto-aim or not.

8 hours ago, Van_Hellsing said:

A determined griefer can run you over to break you out of defensive. 

No they can't, if you take damage from another in defensive you can kill the attacker without losing defensive. Even if they kill you first, you get a free kill in return.

36 minutes ago, zPhoenix said:

It might not be encouraged in words, but it seems encouraged by R* in action.  This is what I mean:

• They intentionally made Defensive mode incomplete, as it still allows people to still shoot you and your horse.
• They intentionally switch you from Defensive to Offensive mode when you do missions and don't switch you back to your default at the end of the mission.
• They intentionally chose to allow player attacks during missions.

Why would they do that unless they want to encourage some amount of griefing... while still claiming that they are against it?  Seems very wrong to me.

Defensive mode is not passive mode.

This only happens when you play stranger missions or set your sale to long distance. (Not counting events here)

[Direwrath]

50 minutes ago, zPhoenix said:

It might not be encouraged in words, but it seems encouraged by R* in action.  This is what I mean:

• They intentionally made Defensive mode incomplete, as it still allows people to still shoot you and your horse.
• They intentionally switch you from Defensive to Offensive mode when you do missions and don't switch you back to your default at the end of the mission.
• They intentionally chose to allow player attacks during missions.

Why would they do that unless they want to encourage some amount of griefing... while still claiming that they are against it?  Seems very wrong to me.

It's like @AmyStone said above, it's not that they are actively encouraging it but they just don't care whether it happens or not. 

 

 

R* has proclaimed that they are against breaking the RDRO player base apart by allowing different types of sessions, what they want is for us to interact with one another. If the server is full of the right players (and a majority of RDRO players are of this group) you are hardly going to see any engagement with them, unless they are coming to take your wagon or stop you from delivering a bound kidnapping victim to their intended destination. Sometimes they will fight over a legendary animal, which is still in the realm of roleplay in this game as that they would benefit from retrieving the animal as much as you would. But many will just either tip and hat or pay you no mind as they go about their own business.

Like I said, there is a time and place for pvp. And some people do roleplay as opportunistic characters such as outlaws and poachers.

 

Your example was just a plain low life player. They weren't going to gain anything by interfering with your bounty, they just wanted to upset you.

 

On the other hand you have the "griefer" set who use the game's mechanics to gain an upper hand over other players. Essentially these players are cheaters. The one time I can remember this happening on console (I am on the Xbox) is when players were using the ghosting ability that some of the free roam story missions give you to kill players while their missions was active, thus making them completely impervious to any attacks.

 

Me, I prefer to lend a helping hand or stay far away, the only time I engage with pvp is in retaliation for an unwarranted attack against myself.

 

Unfortunately the game allows for attacks either way and this only makes the game less desirable for many players, and the only thing you can do is keep an eye on your surroundings. Watch other players very carefully, and learn how to free aim like a pro because in defensive it is the only way you can retaliate because auto aim is disabled.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Direwrath

[zPhoenix]

37 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

I think defensive mode is supposed to be more realistic than full passive mode like in GTA. There was always a problem with passive mode the way it was done in GTA where people could abuse it but it's a lot harder for people to abuse defensive.

 

Well when you're going a mission other players are supposed to be able to attack you and disrupt it. If someone does then that's not really greifing because it's how the game was designed. 

 

I think maybe you're confusing encouraging griefing to not really caring that much if it happens. They have done a lot to make it harder though. They wouldn't have done that if they were encouraging it.

 

I think you miss the point.  The flaws could be easily addressed, like not changing you *out of Defensive mode* once you selected it, always giving you the prompt to file charges with the sheriff so that they'd get a bounty on their heads, or making it easier to give additional details on a griefing report to R*.

[Direwrath]

12 minutes ago, zPhoenix said:

 

I think you miss the point.  The flaws could be easily addressed, like not changing you *out of Defensive mode* once you selected it, always giving you the prompt to file charges with the sheriff so that they'd get a bounty on their heads, or making it easier to give additional details on a griefing report to R*.

They have made it to where players with lower bounties are now readily available to any 20 + Bounty Hunters in the area. So that player that is attacking you just might end up being hunted by other players as they show up, which may make them more wary and less inclined to play Billy the Kid. Just yesterday I had quite a few of these players, and if I had seen any of them shooting at other players I just might have gone after them. But most were just shooting NPC lawmen so I let them be. Which is why I would think that they would make it easier for players to set bounties on their attackers.

It would also be nice if they had a different set of rules for players who gained a bounty through NPC attacks and those who are actively hunting down other players. That way we would know when we came to collect them just what their crimes were.

 

But once again, this is a mechanic meant to get other players interacting with one another.

 

Their lack of willingness to actually allow private/PVE only and PVP only sessions tells me that they honestly could care less if players are being bothered or not. 

R* implementation of things in their online games just never makes any sense, sometimes I wonder where they hire the people who make these decisions?

 

I wished I could give better news @zPhoenix but R* just really seems to enjoy not listening to their players.

[Rez090]

40 minutes ago, Direwrath said:

(I am on the Xbox)

I wonder if I've been in any lobbies with you, I'm also xbox. (Wish I could play though, it died on me.)

[skinku]

If anything is a red dot on my map I will shoot it or f*ck it or both.

[Direwrath]

1 hour ago, Rez090 said:

I wonder if I've been in any lobbies with you, I'm also xbox. (Wish I could play though, it died on me.)

It is quite possible, if you happened upon a Direwrath with a pretty boy blond character in game that was probably me.

 

That sucks about your system... 

[RS123]

I’ve never gone out of my way to bother anyone in RDO but I can’t lie I actually enjoy when griefers  come after me. Doesn’t happen often because I’m almost level 200 but it’s fun when they do because I have al lathe weapons and explosive ammo and bolas with reinforced lassos. So whenever some asshole decides to come after me and ruin my fun I spend the next 20-30 minutes (or however long it takes them to leave the session) torturing them in every way possible, it can be really fun when they send you messages asking you to stop going after them, lol it’s funny how they can dish it but they can’t take it. 
 

personally I never engage in pvp unless 2 conditions are met. First is I get attacked and second is I get a notifications there’s a player bounty. The only reason I go after a player bounty is because it’s so rare and I find the challenge fun, plus it helps with the Wild West role play because having a bounty obviously means bounty hunters would chase you until you paid it off or did your time, but after I throw them in jail that’s it I don’t harass them anymore. 
 

I don’t care what anyone says, griefing is not part of the game, R* only encourages because they believe it will drive more micro-transactions, makes new players think if they want to compete they have to spend real money. They also only encourage it by giving small meaningless rewards, idk what you get in RDO but in GTAO if you destroy someone’s cargo (even if it’s worth millions) you only get $2000 which is NOTHING in GTAO. 
 

If you go out of your way to ruin someone else’s day but attacking them unprovoked you suck, you can’t change my mind on that!!! If you want PVP either play showdowns or a game that is PVP like COD or Rainbow Six or Fortnite!!!

 

GRIEFERS ARE NOT WELCOME IN THE WILD WEST!!!

[SynVok]

When RDO first rolled out it was clearly designed as a free-for-all 'GTA style' game. And it was a blast. Posses protected each other. People loved it because they would congregate in the cities to spar and chat (you could see where people were). Then R* seemed to take cues from Fallout and the minority of players who want zero interaction with others. 

 

It's strange. When the game rolled out it was really the Wild West yet people interacted, worked together and made friends more often. Since R* has remade the game into something it wasn't designed to be now everyone hides from each other. It's kind of mimicking real life because the more restrictions you put on people the less they trust and interact healthily.

 

And I agree there is no griefing in RDO. Players have defensive and parlay. Worse case just change sessions.

 

R* should just make all the content available offline/co-op/private for those who can't deal with the interactive aspects of online. Online should be free and open because the alternative is what we have now, which is a hamstrung game that is a lifeless shell of its former self.

Edited December 7, 2020 by SynVok

[zPhoenix]

After a lot of thinking I believe that 90%+ of the griefing issues would go away if Defensive was turned back on after a mission - if it was on before the mission.  Simple fix too.

[AmyStone]

9 hours ago, zPhoenix said:

 

I think you miss the point.  The flaws could be easily addressed, like not changing you *out of Defensive mode* once you selected it, always giving you the prompt to file charges with the sheriff so that they'd get a bounty on their heads, or making it easier to give additional details on a griefing report to R*.

So you think you should be able to stay in defensive mode when you're doing a mission? That's where rockstar disagrees with you. It's not a 'flaw'. Just because there is something in the game you don't like it doesn't mean it's something that needs fixing or changing. If it bothers you that much then the only flaw is in your choice of game to play.

 

The game was designed to allow other players to disrupt your missions. The game is supposed to be challenging in some places. I don't particularly like how I seem to be constantly chased by wolves and bears whenever I go into a woods. I actually find it a big annoyance. But that's how things are. Should I get the option to not have them chase me? No. You don't get any choice in the real world if you're going to get chased by a pack of wolves so why should a game (that's trying to be fairly realistic) let you choose. The same thing when you're going a sale or a mission where other players can disrupt it. You have to take your chances with everyone else and you have to be on a level playing field. And why do you think you should be able to file charges against someone who taking part in a legitimate part of the game? And in any case, a griefer wouldn't care about getting a bounty. I pay my bounty whenever I go into the post office to collect things. It's usually no more than a few dollars and I don't have to of out of my way to clear it.

 

I think you see grieifing where it doesn't exist. When a player sees a red blip on the map where someone is doing a sale and they receive xp and camp rewards for doing it then I don't think you should be filling in griefer reports against players who choose to play along.

 

[CosmicBuffalo]

Yes, griefing is encouraged.  The game is designed to give people the freedom to grief.  Due to complaints, R* put a lot more tools to stop it in RDO.  The daily challenges when first implemented had weapons kill on players.  You could do them in showdowns but who would.  Anyone that thinks the game doesnt encourage griefing need only look at all the taunts they continously add.  They are literally giving you a method to taunt a player after parlay.  I mean thats text book griefing.  Harrassment with no other purpose thats what griefing is.  No one taunts anyone in showdowns.  I mean sure some player on here will probably say he does, but in reality no one is taunting others during showdowns.  And of course most obviously, R* has encouraged griefing by leaving mechanics such as explosive ammo on auto lock guns and PIB dynamite arrows that can target you from across the map.  On xb, the game shows your location and allows players to join you, unless you restrict your privacy.  There are plenty more subtle and overt examples of griefing being encouraged by R*.

Edited December 7, 2020 by CosmicBuffalo

[zPhoenix]

31 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

So you think you should be able to stay in defensive mode when you're doing a mission? That's where rockstar disagrees with you. It's not a 'flaw'. Just because there is something in the game you don't like it doesn't mean it's something that needs fixing or changing. If it bothers you that much then the only flaw is in your choice of game to play.

 

The game was designed to allow other players to disrupt your missions. The game is supposed to be challenging in some places. I don't particularly like how I seem to be constantly chased by wolves and bears whenever I go into a woods. I actually find it a big annoyance. But that's how things are. Should I get the option to not have them chase me? No. You don't get any choice in the real world if you're going to get chased by a pack of wolves so why should a game (that's trying to be fairly realistic) let you choose. The same thing when you're going a sale or a mission where other players can disrupt it. You have to take your chances with everyone else and you have to be on a level playing field. And why do you think you should be able to file charges against someone who taking part in a legitimate part of the game? And in any case, a griefer wouldn't care about getting a bounty. I pay my bounty whenever I go into the post office to collect things. It's usually no more than a few dollars and I don't have to of out of my way to clear it.

 

I think you see grieifing where it doesn't exist. When a player sees a red blip on the map where someone is doing a sale and they receive xp and camp rewards for doing it then I don't think you should be filling in griefer reports against players who choose to play along.

 

Sigh, I recommend reading the thread carefully.   (Unless you are a griefer afraid of losing your victims so you *choose* to misread, in which case nothing I say will help)

 

There is no need to stay in Defensive mode *during* missions designed for and reliant on player interference.   But Defensive mode should be reinstated AFTER the mission if it was on before.  

 

Leaving the mode on Offensive *after* the mission is either a design/coding oversight or... it is an intentional but tacit tactic by R* to encourage griefing.  I hope it is the first.

 

 

 

[AmyStone]

6 minutes ago, zPhoenix said:

Sigh, I recommend reading the thread carefully.   (Unless you are a griefer afraid of losing your victims so you *choose* to misread, in which case nothing I say will help)

 

There is no need to stay in Defensive mode *during* missions designed for and reliant on player interference.   But Defensive mode should be reinstated AFTER the mission if it was on before.  

 

Leaving the mode on Offensive *after* the mission is either a design/coding oversight or... it is an intentional but tacit tactic by R* to encourage griefing.  I hope it is the first.

Nothing I say here would make any difference to victims I might or might not have.

 

It might not be an oversight but maybe just easier all round. If it's that important then it's not hard to re-enable it.

 

And I still don't think you can say that's something that encourages griefing. Having all players visible on the minimap could be seen as encouraging it. But just not having you return to defensive automatically isn't. And a griefer won't care if you're in defensive mode anyway. In fact it will probably be a beacon for them. 

[netnow66]

When I bother with regular lobbies, it's usually after I finish one of the missions (don't long distance deliveries switch you to offensive too?). And, yeah, if I don't remember to switch back to defensive, I don't blame the player for whatever happens. My opinion is, I'm free game when in offensive. My only issue comes when I'm in defensive because (my opinion is) I'm telling players I don't want to be bothered with whatever they want to do. 

 

My last encounter happened when I logged in in defensive and all I was doing was running to a poker table. Some clown (yeah, I consider him a clown because I was in defensive) started chasing behind me. I barely made it to the table and did the button presses when I heard shots ringing out. Fortunately, I made it in time.

 

Personally, I'd prefer a defensive default at all times and an intentional switch to offensive. My opinion is that Rockstar intentionally sets players up to get hassled by one another--it gives some of us something else to complain about other than glitches in the game. 

[sodoff]

Not that it's a big consolation, I'd like to mention that "griefing" used to be much,much,much worse. Compared to the early days, RDO is now a very peaceful game with the occasional pvp violence thrown in to spice things up.  The hostility system is no deal-breaker for the determined griefer, but it dissuades the casuals. When the casuals had free rein, it was murder 24/7 online. Worse than GTA. Enter Blackwater at any time, you had less than a 50/50 chance of getting out alive, seriously.

 

I would like to see a default switch for the offensive/defensive mode that reverts to peaceful after offensive mission is over, since I often forget, leaving me exposed to casuals.

[zPhoenix]

37 minutes ago, netnow66 said:

Personally, I'd prefer a defensive default at all times and an intentional switch to offensive. My opinion is that Rockstar intentionally sets players up to get hassled by one another--it gives some of us something else to complain about other than glitches in the game. 

 

I agree on defensive default or better yet if the game rememberd what you set it to.

 

And you might be onto something regarding using the griefing as a way to make player complain about something other than their fairly extensive list of bugs.  (Of course, the bugs are only a minor nuisance, the griefing - especially over a weekend when the griefers camp outside the sheriff's office to intercept people delivering a bounty - is the main real issue, especially during weekends)

[AmyStone]

I'm curious where people usually encounter griefers. Over the weekend I played for a large number of hours and visited just about every area of the map. Not once did someone randomly shoot at me. In fact it's extremely rare for that to happen. Are there certain activities that I'm not taking part in where it happens more?

[1898]

I've wondered since day one why so many are constantly griefed and I can roam for days and days and no one lays a hand on me.

 

Is it regional or are we all connecting to same servers regardless of location or internet speed?

 

Do female characters get attacked more than grey-haired male characters like mine?

 

Do the same type of players somehow get placed into the same lobbies based on play style?

 

Probably answer to all of the above is no so I don't understand why some players are constantly harassed.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by 1898

[Van_Hellsing]

Griefers hang out in towns. Lots of NPC's to kill. Blackwater used to be a hot spot. It can be a coincidence, but I met a few near Emerald station lately. 

 

I used to pick up the gauntlet. Nowadays I think bullets are bad for bizniz and escape if I can. I only got in a fight lately over a legendary carcass just outside Strawberry. It was my kill and two griefers try to steal it. I showed them that crime doesn't pay and blew them up with a volitile dynamite stick. Just like in old days... 

 

[zPhoenix]

14 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

I'm curious where people usually encounter griefers. Over the weekend I played for a large number of hours and visited just about every area of the map. Not once did someone randomly shoot at me. In fact it's extremely rare for that to happen. Are there certain activities that I'm not taking part in where it happens more?

I get griefed about 3-4 times a day, usually by people camping the sheriff's office to interfere with bounty delivery.  I always report them but I don't think it has any effect.

• Note that when it happens I am usually in Defensive mode (it definitely happens more in Offensive), and without a bounty on me.
• It is very intentional, as it usually happens inside the "presumed safe zone" just before reaching the delivery point, and the players are either waiting in ambush or barrel in when they see you on the map.  They might also shoot to spook or kill my horse the moment I get off.

The other very common scenario is when people intentionally ram you trying to provoke you to shoot back at them.

 

 

 

 

 

[GrungeNinja]

14 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

I'm curious where people usually encounter griefers. Over the weekend I played for a large number of hours and visited just about every area of the map. Not once did someone randomly shoot at me. In fact it's extremely rare for that to happen. Are there certain activities that I'm not taking part in where it happens more?

Back 1 year ago when the game released for pc, I experienced way more players attacking me, maybe its because griefers tend to attack lowbies more than high ranked players as Im currently 349. 
 

So now, to look for a fight I do stranger missions, I dont rush them and just roam around, there are always players willing to get involved, faster than those who will randomly attack you.

[roggek]

37 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

I'm curious where people usually encounter griefers.

On RDO PC version, of course...

 

Playing RDO on console is at most times a joyful experience, but not said that griefers are prevalent there too.

[DentureDynamite]

11 hours ago, skinku said:

If anything is a red dot on my map I will shoot it or f*ck it or both.

I know what you're saying--the only catch is that some of those red dots are people like myself who became red briefly because we shot a derp who ran towards us with their rifle drawn (happened to me this weekend).

 

That said, if I'm red, you're welcome to shoot me first too. Better to be safe than sorry; but I may shoot back. lol

 

Just saying, and part of why this game is so effed up.

Edited December 7, 2020 by DentureDynamite

[AmyStone]

34 minutes ago, DentureDynamite said:

I know what you're saying--the only catch is that some of those red dots are people like myself who became red briefly because we shot a derp who ran towards us with their rifle drawn.

Being a red dot is probably your best defence. A lot better than defensive mode. Having a high rank can help too. When my blip is red I never see anyone. People seem to keep clear just in case and don't appear on my radar.

[DentureDynamite]

44 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

Being a red dot is probably your best defence. A lot better than defensive mode. Having a high rank can help too. When my blip is red I never see anyone. People seem to keep clear just in case and don't appear on my radar.

Heh; hadn't thought of it that way--I'll probably stick with my usual Defensive mode (flawed as it can be).

[Lonely-Martin]

2 hours ago, AmyStone said:

I'm curious where people usually encounter griefers. 

It's pretty random/varied. Mostly towns or places like when visiting the 2 loopy mares, madam bizzare and bellatrix etc. As mentioned above, having folk hang out in towns and just shooting the place up while waiting for players to drop off bounties or visit butcher's etc.

 

But sometimes it's spontaneous pap in between the hotspots.

 

2 hours ago, 1898 said:

I've wondered since day one why so many are constantly griefed and I can roam for days and days and no one lays a hand on me.

It's not a constant thing, there are days where nothing happens which can make the game a delight to play. But it's enough to be noticeable and as it's something I wish to avoid, can leave me dissatisfied with my session when it pops up.

 

That said, if like you/Amy/others feel there's no griefing or have a different view on it, your tolerances are different by nature so it may be harder to notice too. What I may see as a griefer, you guys might see as just another player. 

 

1 hour ago, roggek said:

On RDO PC version, of course...

PS4-PS5 here. PC has real issues and there's nothing R* could do to tempt me over to that platform, but it's not all peaches and cream on consoles.

 

1 hour ago, AmyStone said:

Being a red dot is probably your best defence. A lot better than defensive mode.

There lies a real problem with it all though. Having to be offensive enough to get red to avoid grief is counter productive to the entire concept of defensive mode. 

 

It can actively encourage people to attack defensive mode players and only see's grief rise if this method becomes more common.

 

Defensive mode should be a deterrent and not a target.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Lonely-Martin
Autospell fail.

[CosmicBuffalo]

2 hours ago, AmyStone said:

I'm curious where people usually encounter griefers. Over the weekend I played for a large number of hours and visited just about every area of the map. Not once did someone randomly shoot at me. In fact it's extremely rare for that to happen. Are there certain activities that I'm not taking part in where it happens more?

Griefing is rare in this game but it happens.  Play solo and stick to areas that are flat such as near Emerald Ranch and Great Plains.  Plant your camp there and set about to do dailies, make a phone call...ride around aimlessly as you discuss your important business, a griefer is guaranteed to appear. 

 

Eventually a group of people will attack you for no reason which is griefing.  If you fight back and kill them, 50% of the the time they will call additional players to help which is further griefing behavior...start a fight with a posse then call for back up on a solo player.