Possible Solution to Oppressor MK2 Complaints?

[Nutduster]

42 minutes ago, ChiroVette said:

Wow I was going to apologize for naively creating this topic, since I am new to GTA0 (my 6 month anniversary coming up early December lol) but it looks like it spurred some great discussion. Personally I love the Oppressor just the way it is, but I am a peaceful player who would rather try and help others than even think about griefing. I have mixed feelings about this. I thought my idea about not targeting other players, even in vehicles, was a good one, but clearly not, since manual aim is pretty easy.

 

 

Actually, I think most players can't manual aim worth a crap, even with the relatively steady Oppressor (for true hilarity though, try to bait any rando into manually aiming helicopter rockets at you on foot; there's a reason almost no one does it). The problem with this suggested fix is that it really goes deep into the game design. Tons and tons of vehicles have homing missiles that lock onto anything player-driven; if you're going to nerf this on the Oppressor, you might have to do it to every other vehicle as well for fairness' sake, and it completely changes the way the game plays. (IMO it would probably be for the better, but the majority of players would not like it, I guarantee. Especially the ones that paid real money to obtain some of these vehicles.)

 

And when you look at the history of GTA Online, many of these vehicles were added--in the developers' less-than-infinite wisdom--as counters to things in the game that were already a problem. One of the big ones was and is the jet. Jets aren't such a big problem anymore, but the main reason for that is because every third player in every lobby has crazy-accurate homing missiles at their fingertips. I could propose all kinds of things here--one that would probably help would be to make homing missiles only lock onto FLYING player vehicles, and add counter-measures to any unarmed aircraft, as well. But Rockstar has a seven-year track record of being unwilling to mess with their game to that degree. They did only in the first year or two (for instance, it was originally the case that NO homing missiles locked onto player-driven land vehicles... imagine that!! doesn't it sound like paradise??). After that, all they do is minor tweaks and add new things that are meant to somehow counter existing OP weapons. The problem, of course, is that they miss the mark on balancing the new stuff at least half the time, and so a handful of small problems have morphed into an ever-expanding spiderweb of bigger and bigger issues that will never get fixed.

 

Bottom line: Even though I feel strongly that this is possible to fix, and SHOULD be fixed, it won't get fixed. So don't burn too much energy thinking about it. Rockstar definitely won't.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Nutduster

[Halal Cyborg]

@Nutduster

 

personally if I’m running a sale I fear only a jet as it has the explosive rounds...of course you can put an explosive cannon on the Mk2 but very few do.

 

Oppressor riders have no clue how to hit a moving target they can’t lock on to and from personal experience on the ultra rare moments I’ve engaged a jet with an oppressor I tend to lose...they can dodge easily.

 

with a ruiner 2000 I have more luck weirdly 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Halal Cyborg

[Nutduster]

I think the from-the-ground angle of the Ruiner missiles makes them harder to dodge somehow. Helps that often the jet is dive-bombing you and you can hit it head-on. But I agree, I use the Hydra fairly often still and Oppressors give me no trouble. I just circle until they run out of missiles, pretty much.

 

That said, you do see a lot less jets than you used to, and they are in the air less time than they used to be. So I have to think the Oppressor is the main reason for that. Partly it's probably because the Oppressor is just more convenient, so all those old jet griefers are now Oppressor griefers by default. And partly it's because a lot of people still don't know how to use a jet very effectively, and manage to get taken out by things a better pilot could avoid. The explosive sniper is also a factor, but not nearly as much IMO--I don't think many players have that thing, from my experience. Just too much time and work to get access to it.

 

Definitely agree that jets are far scarier for most sales, except the old ones with vehicles that can be locked onto (speaking of other stuff Rockstar ought to patch!). The MC business vehicles can be locked onto, which is just one of several reasons not to run those businesses. The bunker and nightclub vehicles cannot, and are pretty well armored, so like you I pretty much just ignore Oppressors and assume I can drive right by. But if I see a jet, I'm definitely ghosting.

[Halal Cyborg]

8 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

I think the from-the-ground angle of the Ruiner missiles makes them harder to dodge somehow. Helps that often the jet is dive-bombing you and you can hit it head-on. But I agree, I use the Hydra fairly often still and Oppressors give me no trouble. I just circle until they run out of missiles, pretty much.

 

That said, you do see a lot less jets than you used to, and they are in the air less time than they used to be. So I have to think the Oppressor is the main reason for that. Partly it's probably because the Oppressor is just more convenient, so all those old jet griefers are now Oppressor griefers by default. And partly it's because a lot of people still don't know how to use a jet very effectively, and manage to get taken out by things a better pilot could avoid. The explosive sniper is also a factor, but not nearly as much IMO--I don't think many players have that thing, from my experience. Just too much time and work to get access to it.

 

Definitely agree that jets are far scarier for most sales, except the old ones with vehicles that can be locked onto (speaking of other stuff Rockstar ought to patch!). The MC business vehicles can be locked onto, which is just one of several reasons not to run those businesses. The bunker and nightclub vehicles cannot, and are pretty well armored, so like you I pretty much just ignore Oppressors and assume I can drive right by. But if I see a jet, I'm definitely ghosting.

Yeah I always ghost and try to time it’s use the most effectively.

 

i exclusively sell in public...I’ll go back to bunker sales when they fix the Coronavirus but typically I just do that and nightclub.

 

MC sales are essentially impossible in a full session...you’re relying on decency to complete the sale...NAT is a necessity if you’re going to risk them and having two characters I try to avoid it so I can switch when needed.

 

i don’t have the explosive sniper as I use the thermal scope to snipe npcs...if I could have two heavy snipers  I would lol

Edited November 28, 2020 by Halal Cyborg

[REVENGE777]

59 minutes ago, ChiroVette said:

Wow I was going to apologize for naively creating this topic, since I am new to GTA0 (my 6 month anniversary coming up early December lol) but it looks like it spurred some great discussion. Personally I love the Oppressor just the way it is, but I am a peaceful player who would rather try and help others than even think about griefing. I have mixed feelings about this. I thought my idea about not targeting other players, even in vehicles, was a good one, but clearly not, since manual aim is pretty easy. Not sure what to say, because I enjoy the hell out of using the MK2 for all my various sourcing, heist prep missions, VIP missions, and whatnot. For my personal use, I would never want to see the bike nerfed against AI at least. Too bad there isn't a way for Rockstar to make the missiles somehow less effective against fellow players, while still being just as deadly against the AI.

 

All that said, controversial question coming up:

 

With the sale on, I was thinking of scoring a 2nd Oppressor MK2. Is it worth it to have two of them? I read somewhere that if your Oppressor is destroyed, you have to wait for the cooldown timer to elapse even if you had a 2nd one and try to order it.

 

 

 

Yeah if you’ve missed the last 6 and a half years your opinion would definitely be different. This is the only way you’ve know the game to be. But trust that it wasn’t always like this. Things were a lot simpler once and the only things that were really a problem were jets, tanks and buzzards. The oppressor MKll changed the game on a fundamental level and not in a good way. I’m not tryna sh*t on what you like, but for those of us In this game since the beginning, it completely threw a wrench into everything built up until that point. Change can be good and normally we should accept change, but this is absolutely not one of those circumstances.

[Spectre "2K"]

give it the sh*tty RC tank missiles for all I care, thing is only good for transport and even then is boring as f*ck to pilot

[ChiroVette]

6 hours ago, SonofLosSantos said:

Yeah if you’ve missed the last 6 and a half years your opinion would definitely be different. This is the only way you’ve know the game to be. But trust that it wasn’t always like this. Things were a lot simpler once and the only things that were really a problem were jets, tanks and buzzards. The oppressor MKll changed the game on a fundamental level and not in a good way. I’m not tryna sh*t on what you like, but for those of us In this game since the beginning, it completely threw a wrench into everything built up until that point. Change can be good and normally we should accept change, but this is absolutely not one of those circumstances.

I get your point. Even though I have been playing GTA for over two decades, counting those old top down games, I realized very quickly, back in June just passed, that GTAO is a completely different animal all together. I understand the consternation about the MK2, as I have read all the posts here about it, and have enjoyed all of your opinions. Also, I don't really treat GTAO like a public game anyway. I only play with friends or alone. Since I am not a griefer, or try hard, I literally had no idea before creating this thread that the MK2 doesn't target lock other players or cargo! lol I suppose in this instance, my woeful ignorance proves I'm not a griefer at least. Part of it is because I'm sure that my reflexes aren't nearly as good as the average 12 year old new player who in a month or two of playing will have much greater PvP skills than me. Eventually I will attempt to cultivate PvP skills, but in 6 months I have managed to get ranked up to just a hair under 400 and have amassed a pretty huge fortune and have everything of worth that can be purchased in this game, including all the cosmetic upgrades, and did all this without ever really trying the PvP. For all my monetary and criminal empire achievements, and having NEVER even considered purchasing a shark card, my K/D is really embarrassingly low. I will probably watch some Youtube videos and maybe create a thread in the forum at some point looing for tips and tricks, probably right after the coming update.

 

So, also in support of your point, I think that when you play the game the way I do, which is pretty much alone or with friends, you get a completely different spin on what the game is. To be frank, I realized very quickly when playing this game, that if I had to spend all my time, and try making all my money, in huge, congested public lobbies, filled with griefers, and even n00bs with a lot more combat skill than me, that I wouldn't last 5 minutes in this game, and I would have immediately gone back to SP and ditched online. So its a two-edged sword. It is for these reasons I am quite sure that I love the Oppressor MK2 just the way it is and wouldn't change a thing, for me and my playing. I naively thought that my thread idea was a viable solution, but found out from all of you that it was initially based on a false premise, that being that I thought you could lock onto other players on foot and their cargo. So its hard, if not impossible, for me to meaningfully take part in the MK2 discussions, since I am not playing the game in the typical way. It would be grossly unfair to demand that my voice be a valid one in this discussion. Which is why I have mostly kept out of my own thread, since you guys set me straight about how the Oppressor locks on and doesn't and how easy it is to free/manually aim it.

Edited November 29, 2020 by ChiroVette

[REVENGE777]

6 minutes ago, ChiroVette said:

its hard, if not impossible, for me to meaningfully take part in the MK2 discussions, since I am not playing the game in the typical way. It would be grossly unfair to demand that my voice be a valid one in this discussion. Which is why I have mostly kept out of my own thread, since you guys set me straight about how the Oppressor locks on and doesn't and how easy it is to free/manually aim it.

Dont feel like you have to be shut out of your own discussion or that your input isn’t valid, because it is, your voice matters too. But at the end of the day to most of us we just look at the opmkll as a sacrifice. It’s up to the individual to decide if that sacrifice was worth it.

Edited November 29, 2020 by SonofLosSantos

[ChiroVette]

3 minutes ago, SonofLosSantos said:

Dont feel like you have to be shut out of your own discussion or that your input isn’t valid, because it is, your voice matters too. But at the end of the to most of us we just look at the opmkll as a sacrifice. It’s up to the individual to decide if that sacrifice was worth it.

Agreed and thanks, but my only point is that my opinion about the Opressor MK2 should be at least taken with a grain of salt based on how I play the game. It would be unfair, in other words, for me to have a reasonable expectation that Rockstar should listen to players like me, who literally wouldn't change anything about it. because the game allows me arguably a lot more freedom than the devs would actually like me to have in my endeavors to stay the hell out of public lobbies. See my point? It isn't that I shouldn't express my opinion. It's that yours, and the others in this thread, at least in this instance, needs to be given a great deal more weight.

Edited November 29, 2020 by ChiroVette

[REVENGE777]

34 minutes ago, ChiroVette said:

Agreed and thanks, but my only point is that my opinion about the Opressor MK2 should be at least taken with a grain of salt based on how I play the game. It would be unfair, in other words, for me to have a reasonable expectation that Rockstar should listen to players like me, who literally wouldn't change anything about it. because the game allows me arguably a lot more freedom than the devs would actually like me to have in my endeavors to stay the hell out of public lobbies. See my point? It isn't that I shouldn't express my opinion. It's that yours, and the others in this thread, at least in this instance, needs to be given a great deal more weight.

I wish they thought the same way you do, but unfortunately that will NEVER be the case again.

[Volatollotalov]

I heard that some people resigned from Rockstar because of the Op.II, and specifically that they mentioned it in their exit interviews. But if you had Rockstar on your CV two years ago it might have been quite easy to walk into another studio no matter your niche, so only they truly know why they left. I suspect that the real reasons are likely much more nuanced. 

 

We're in the here and now and that absurd device still embodies the rank toxicity of freeroam GTAO. Tens if not hundreds of thousands of players left the game forever because of that device, and the artless joy of blowing up earnest gamers with impunity brought in and apparently retained hundreds of thousands of new players. 

 

The bravest move would be not to nerf it further but to just cancel the damn thing - refund all players with at least its as-new GTA$ value and maybe craft some narrative about it being recalled for regulatory reasons. They could do that in a heartbeat and it wouldn't cause 1% of the negativity of a banwave. 

 

The chances of that happening are low...

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Volatollotalov

[NULL AND VOID]

If I had a few thousand dollars to blow I'd fly to NYC just to yell at Rockstar about this thing. Politely of course... And a few minutes later be escorted out by security. But I'd still do it

[ChiroVette]

I can foresee one potentially big problem with either nerfing or eliminating the Oppressor Mark II. While most of us on this forum wouldn't touch a shark card with a ten foot pole, I wonder how many thousands of people and kiddies purchased one, at least in part, to buy and upgrade the flying bike? In a sense, people like us are being punished for not being part of Rockstar's target demographic, in terms of IAP sales, and they are more interested in catering not to the one-time-retail buyers like us, but to the people going into their wallet to buy GTA Funny Money whenever they want something shiny and new. I bet that Rockstar's dedicated legal team would have an opinion on the possible repercussions Take2/Rockstar could face if they nerf or recall the Oppressor Mark II, even refunding the in-game Monopoly money that people paid for it and its accompanying upgrades.

[NULL AND VOID]

25 minutes ago, ChiroVette said:

I can foresee one potentially big problem with either nerfing or eliminating the Oppressor Mark II. While most of us on this forum wouldn't touch a shark card with a ten foot pole, I wonder how many thousands of people and kiddies purchased one, at least in part, to buy and upgrade the flying bike? In a sense, people like us are being punished for not being part of Rockstar's target demographic, in terms of IAP sales, and they are more interested in catering not to the one-time-retail buyers like us, but to the people going into their wallet to buy GTA Funny Money whenever they want something shiny and new. I bet that Rockstar's dedicated legal team would have an opinion on the possible repercussions Take2/Rockstar could face if they nerf or recall the Oppressor Mark II, even refunding the in-game Monopoly money that people paid for it and its accompanying upgrades.

I took a few screenshots while upgrading a new OP.mk2 and I have to admit it's absolutely pathetic how "rinky-dink" this thing actually is. 180 grand gets you a life time supply of rockets? The rocket "bay" shows only 4 rockets...And these things are Freakin BOTTLE ROCKETS. absolutely no reason there should be 20.. This is an absolute joke. 

 

I am 400k RP away from never...ever playing this crap again if something doesnt happen. I'll do this little heist but words cannot describe this garbage...

 

You're excused

[suicidal_banana]

18 hours ago, SkylineGTRFreak said:

I have recently played on my GF's account for the first time in ages (level 28 character).

 

And seriously man, f*ck this sh*t. While I at least have some tools to fight back on my own character, it was hilarious (in a really bad way) how f*cked lower ranked players are.

Having recently started a new character myself im honestly very grateful for the 'black friday' sale on terrorbyte (weapon workshop gives me access to a bunch of weapons i havent even unlocked in ammunation yet?!?!) & oppressor mk2 sale, its already paying itself back massively.

 

Now when some tryhard k/d farming moron comes for a cheap kill i ask them not too, let it happen, then go off radar and call my own mk2 sh*tbike to absolutely destroy them, i was allowed to buy missiles and chaff right away & have much more experience with this crappy thing (and the recent influx of new mk2 bike griefers) compared to most of these kids, so they're essentially f-ed hard and i will throw salt in their wounded ego by mentioning level differences etc after every kill, its downright glorious to see them lose their cool so quickly haha

 

Also f- yes for up-n-atomizer not having a level lock, that weapon is some great stuff too for all these slow brained idiots thinking they will be allowed the time to line up a shot.

[Gridl0k]

16 hours ago, Halal Cyborg said:

I’ll go back to bunker sales when they fix the Coronavirus

Oh this is perfect.

[DeltaV20]

Equip a sticky bomb and try your best, it's a real perfect way to handle a broomstick player situation.

[ChiroVette]

6 hours ago, NULL AND VOID said:

You're excused

Not quite sure what you seem to be "excusing me" for, but I make no apologies for any of my opinions.

 

9 minutes ago, DeltaV20 said:

Equip a sticky bomb and try your best, it's a real perfect way to handle a broomstick player situation.

 

You know, I really need to start going to town on learning how to be a much better PvP player. I am a great grinder, as my stats, current wealth, and all the in-game businesses and widgets will attest to, but, man, do I suck at PvP. Have set a 6 month time limit on myself. Meaning that I started playing the game in June of this year, and at around the 6 month mark, much of my progress thanks to @xInfected_Virus's guide and help. The update will come literally a week after my 6 monthly anniversary playing GTAO, and I am going to start really playing this game at that point, and trying to learn how to defend myself in crowded lobbies. My only asset now, on the very rare instances I go into crowded lobbies, is that my rank is very deceptive. I am a hair away from 400, which came from lots and lots of casino heists, tons of Bunker/Nightclub sales, and a crapload of full Special cargo warehouse sales all during double money weeks. I suppose that this rank deceptively convinces people not to go after me. But one look at my laughable K/D in the Online/Players pause menu, and I'm sure I will have a ton of slightly more experienced griefers on my ass. lol

 

Edit: Oh and the reason I posted this as a response to your post, is one of the things I really need to learn how to use are all the various grenades/throwables, like Sticky bomb and such.

Edited November 29, 2020 by ChiroVette

[Lonely-Martin]

7 hours ago, ChiroVette said:

I can foresee one potentially big problem with either nerfing or eliminating the Oppressor Mark II. While most of us on this forum wouldn't touch a shark card with a ten foot pole, I wonder how many thousands of people and kiddies purchased one, at least in part, to buy and upgrade the flying bike? In a sense, people like us are being punished for not being part of Rockstar's target demographic, in terms of IAP sales, and they are more interested in catering not to the one-time-retail buyers like us, but to the people going into their wallet to buy GTA Funny Money whenever they want something shiny and new. I bet that Rockstar's dedicated legal team would have an opinion on the possible repercussions Take2/Rockstar could face if they nerf or recall the Oppressor Mark II, even refunding the in-game Monopoly money that people paid for it and its accompanying upgrades.

It'd be a lesson learned for buying such crap, lol.

 

But seriously, the ToS of the game do state they can change what they want whenever so I'm sure legally they'd be just fine if they did remove/refund it.

 

Not that they would of course. But I can't lie, if they did the B&M thread would be priceless.

[ChiroVette]

Just now, Lonely-Martin said:

It'd be a lesson learned for buying such crap, lol.

 

But seriously, the ToS of the game do state they can change what they want whenever so I'm sure legally they'd be just fine if they did remove/refund it.

 

Not that they would of course. But I can't lie, if they did the B&M thread would be priceless.

I agree with you from a strictly legalistic standpoint. But when has this ever stopped big law firms from filing huge class action suits? I mean, you're right, don't get me wrong. Disclaimers like that tend to scare away a lot of nuisance suits, but I guarantee you that if you get a boatload of people whinging to some Cadillac NY City law firm, specializing in class actions, because their toy was nerfed, a toy they purchased with Funny Money they went into their credit card to buy, I think it could cause problems. The bottom line is that, in my opinion, Rockstar has no desire or intention of testing that theory out. Also, as others have mentioned, the MK II is an alluring little in-game widget that I am quite sure a lot of folks still are going into their wallets to buy the Funny Money necessary to purchase and upgrade. 

[Gridl0k]

This debate always makes me think of this so I am posting it. Nobody here is the guy in the well.

 

[Lonely-Martin]

1 minute ago, ChiroVette said:

I agree with you from a strictly legalistic standpoint. But when has this ever stopped big law firms from filing huge class action suits? I mean, you're right, don't get me wrong. Disclaimers like that tend to scare away a lot of nuisance suits, but I guarantee you that if you get a boatload of people whinging to some Cadillac NY City law firm, specializing in class actions, because their toy was nerfed, a toy they purchased with Funny Money they went into their credit card to buy, I think it could cause problems. The bottom line is that, in my opinion, Rockstar has no desire or intention of testing that theory out. Also, as others have mentioned, the MK II is an alluring little in-game widget that I am quite sure a lot of folks still are going into their wallets to buy the Funny Money necessary to purchase and upgrade. 

It'd be no different to when they nerfed the Rhino tank into being so weak. Many might have bought it with a card and then saw it become so weak. I'm certain R*/T2 and their legal team would have it thrown out of court in seconds. The worst that'd happen is some negative press from the bitching on YouTube and the like.

 

Though we do agree, they won't need to because the thing makes them so much money that they'll never risk hurting the goose that lays the golden eggs.

[Halal Cyborg]

They need to buff the Regina into having 100 missiles with better tracking then the Mk2 that come out of its luggage and fire upwards and give it a Force field like constant countermeasure.

 

cant believe nobody else has thought of this...imagine the fear of seeing a Regina  

Edited November 29, 2020 by Halal Cyborg

[PhilPerlmutter]

The Oppressor MK2 is this kind of love hate for me (btw I have never killed another player with it):
I hate its handling, and I extremely dislike what a certain type of players use it for and the advantage it grants them if doing so.

But then, for me being a grinder, it would be a huge loss of saving time, changing the oppressor the way it is.

The discussion (how the oppressor mk2 could be nerved) is missleading in my opinion anyway:

Let's face it, the underlying cause why the mk2 is such a thing is mainly due the annoying PvP machanics of the game, mainly showing products to everyone and displaying them as something that shoould be destroyed.
I mean honestly, why would anyone even see someone driving around illegal products?
Why is the game designed the way that you are told to destroy the products and gettting nothing for it, but you cannot steal them (except vehicle cargo), which would be actually useful in terms of PvP design?

I am against nerving the oppressor mk2 in anyway, because it does not solve the problem at all, because the game design encourages destroying players products and gives griefers a huge advantage for that (being visible if not using off radar, ghost organisation, being stuck in vehicles that are not ideal to fight back).
If the oppressor is nerved, they will use another vehicle, it is as simple as that.

 

If you like a change, rather argue for a change of the whole PvP concept, that balances the advantage more in favor for those who sell product.
For me personally, it is not a big thing anyway:
I simply do not see GTA Online as PvP game, so I only play in lobbies with friends or even alone, people who enter the lobby and try to grief simply get kicked out.
 

[Lonely-Martin]

16 minutes ago, Halal Cyborg said:

They need to buff the Regina into having 100 missiles with better tracking then the Mk2 that come out of its luggage and fire upwards and give it a Force field like constant countermeasure.

 

cant believe nobody else has thought of this...imagine the fear of seeing a Regina  

Instead of Oppressor pussies, we can call 'em Regina vaginas.

[Gunbladelad]

There are a few options that should make things a bit better.

1.  Disable the ability to lock onto other players with the Oppressor Mk2 missiles entirely.  Failing this, remove the missiles completely but keep the explosive cannon
2.  Lock the "Off the radar" and "Ghost organisation" to being available during missions only (Perhaps remove "off the radar" and replace it with an MC Club equivalent to ghost organisation which hides the product as well)
3.  Disable being able lock-on with missiles for ALL sale mission ground vehicles.

Of course, I know none of these are ever going to happen.
 

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

2 hours ago, Gridl0k said:

This debate always makes me think of this so I am posting it. Nobody here is the guy in the well.

 

r/gtaonline is the guy in the well

[Cutter De Blanc]

Trying to dogfight one in my Starling is like trying to swat a fly by throwing a baseball at it

 

Killed one in my Ruiner2k of all things, guess the guy couldnt handle my erratic city driving and random hopping 

 

If they removed it entirely there would be little use for the Terrorbyte, and honestly I really like that truck.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Cutter De Blanc

[Black-Dragon96]

28 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

If they removed it entirely there would be little use for the Terrorbyte,

The Terrorbytemissions would like a word with you.

[ChiroVette]

You guys talking about the Regina, are you al kidding around? Because I thought that was just an old station-waggon, not a weaponized vehicle.