Why don't DLC cars deform?

[starfurexxed]

I've noticed that any of the DLC cars added do not deform at all. Even after hitting a wall at some 120 mph. Not only that but roofs and doors no longer deform. Why would rockstar remove deformation to their cars?

[ddarko12]

I noticed this became a thing around the time that the last-gen (x1/ps4) version of V came out. That of course introduced FPV, and as a result deformation had to be so that you could still use FPV in a car even though you're smashing it to bits. On 360/ps3, you could literally crush cars. While vanilla cars are still quite deformable on x1/ps4, the cockpit usually doesn't deform, or it's hard to deform or doesn't deform much.

 

With the newer cars introduced after the updated version of the game, my guess is they just got lazy. Some new cars do deform slightly, but not significantly. None like the vanilla cars, and certainly not like on the original version of the game. So I guess your answer is... well... laziness. In the lore community, almost all of their cars are deformable, some even the cockpit deforms. So it is possible. Rockstar just doesn't do it.

[MayoChiki]

It's also worth noting that not all DLCs have been done by the same people. At least that's the impression I've gotten based on the inconsistency between props and models, some are more detailed and some are straight re-colors of other things, so it's possible some had more work put into its physics. Development in this game is such a clusterf*ck it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case

[FrugalDangerMan]

The automobile manufacturers have OBVIOUSLY been studying our driving habits (130mph impacts with immovable tennis court nets, regular collisions with trains, crushing forces from tanks, jumping thousands of feet, falling off 100 story buildings,  etc.) and increased structural reinforcement in certain places to better protect the automobiles occupants.

 

Its called industry evolution.  Duhh.

[el carlitos]

It´s kind of a step back in realism.

[Pedinhuh]

My guess is that this has something to do with the higher level of texture detail and angular forms they introduced with the new cars.

 

For example, let's compare some OG cars with their newer versions added after some time, starting with the Entity XF versus the Entity XXR:

 

Got these images on the wiki

 

See the major differences here?

 

The front fascia of the XXR is far more rounded and has a much higher level of detail than the XF front fascia, which looks like a pathetic toy car by comparison.

 

Look at how the carbon lip spoiler is properly modelled and integrated with the front bumper.

And then, look at the much better detailed headlights.

Now, let's look at it's sides as well, the XXR is more angular and detailed than the XF is with it's flat panels.

Not to mention the texture quality as well.

 

Now, comparing the Zentorno v. the Zorusso:

Courtesy of @Viboxing (GTAGFX)

 

The Zentorno is far more angular but the lower poly count is screaming at your face with those ridiculous headlights and the front fascia in general.

 

In general the Zorusso is much better made even though it lacks in some areas, it's still a much better car than the Zentorno, it's just too expensive for what it is.

 

So as I speculated earlier, higher texture quality and detail in general could mean that the modelers had to dial back on the car's deformation detail, for whatever reason necessary.

[Verstappen]

I read somewhere most if not all new vehicles from after a certain DLC have the 'extra strong' flag enabled like the tank. Would explain a lot.

[WildBrick142]

they just set the visual deformation multiplier to be much lower than day 1 and early dlc cars

for example:
futo: 0.600000,1.000000
coquette: 0.600000,1.000000
bifta (beach bum): 0.600000,1.000000
turismo classic (cunning stunts: special vehicle circuit): 0.300000,0.300000
sugoi (diamond casino heist): 0.400000,0.400000

 

i believe it's because the car deforming to the point the wheels lock up is the most annoying sh*t ever so they decided to make cars deform less so it's not as much of a problem anymore - especially because those are "high-end" online-exclusive cars, and players might get put off by annoying singleplayer features that nobody asked for.

[Monkeypolice188]

As wildbrick said, I think the MP aspect of DLC vehicles made them move away from high deformation. Most of the models still have appropriate amounts of deformation painting on the model, but the visual deformation limits were reduced. They also infrequently use flags to prevent any form of deformation at all.

[Hazzardtohimself]

Whenever a new DLC / drip-feed drops, I always give those new stock vehicles a good deformation test in a solo race - occasionally involving a train. 

 

Indeed, most of the vehicles (that aren't based on pre-existing models - i.e.: Bennys conversions) released after 'Ill Gotten Gains 2' no longer have decent deformation.

There are a few exceptions, like the GT500, Michelle GT, and Penumbra FF which still can be crumpled though. 

It's weird. Whoever's coding some of the vehicles keeps them interesting, whereas some others just get cartoonish-scratches and no squishy panels. 

[WildBrick142]

5 minutes ago, Hazzardtohimself said:

It's weird. Whoever's coding some of the vehicles keeps them interesting, whereas some others just get cartoonish-scratches and no squishy panels. 

the ironic thing is that the recent cars are higher-poly than the day1/early dlc cars so their deformation would look much nicer than on the old cars had it been set to the original values

[FrugalDangerMan]

5 hours ago, el carlitos said:

It´s kind of a step back in realism.

 

He says about a game where:

 - permanent death never occurs

- civilians can purchase and operate modern military hardware in public

- fly on jet propelled rocket bikes

- murder HUNDREDS of law enforcement officials without consequence

- manufacturer and distribute military grade weapons, narcotics and counterfeit goods

- operate a weapon of mass destruction on command

- has to pay more than what a tank costs to buy a 20yr old Honda civic

 

But yeah, the deformation physics being less than before really breaks the illusion....

[el carlitos]

8 minutes ago, FrugalDangerMan said:

 

He says about a game where:

 - permanent death never occurs

- civilians can purchase and operate modern military hardware in public

- fly on jet propelled rocket bikes

- murder HUNDREDS of law enforcement officials without consequence

- manufacturer and distribute military grade weapons, narcotics and counterfeit goods

- operate a weapon of mass destruction on command

- has to pay more than what a tank costs to buy a 20yr old Honda civic

 

But yeah, the deformation physics being less than before really breaks the illusion....

Sure the game is not realistic at all but it is one of the most detailed games ever. I can ignore most of that points above at a crew session, roleplay session and car meet session.

I mean I always loved deformation of cars in games. It´s a quality aspect imo. Low damage physiks is just a step back, specially in 2020.

Here we are talking about car deformation OG vs today and to speculate why this is the case. It´s kind of sad that this is even the case.

 

But yeah, there are a lot of "unlogic" desitions in GTA Online.

Edited November 25, 2020 by el carlitos

[NULL AND VOID]

Try out the Dune Fav...when I hit cops at full speed they get launched like a mini phantom wedge 😆

[Gaffa]

I always thought it was the actual damage model itself that was changed, as you can set a high deformation multiplier like 100 on a "new DLC vehicle" and it won't physically damage anything like the OG or early update cars. Crucially, the handling isn't affected, whereas damaging older vehicles, and the handling is massively impacted. Makes a right balls of things in races if you actually do have a collision, so even if any of the OG vehicles were still faster in the classes that "still get raced in", you'd have to ensure you didn't have any collisions to prevent the chance of any issues. 

As an example, below is the BF Club with the deformation damage modifier set to 100. Sure it's beat up, but it took at least 10 falls from around 800ft for it to look like this. 

https://gfycat.com/mellowhighlevelfruitfly

Next up we have the original Dinka Blista, with damage from just 5 falls, with the same deformation damage modifier value. Handling is definitely affected on this one... 

https://gfycat.com/alarmingmistyanteater

 

Oh well it looks like gfycat embeds don't work on this forum anymore. Nevermind. 

Having armour on any car prevents it from taking quite the same level of collision damage, so I guess that helps. 

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Gaffa

[REXX]

4 hours ago, WildBrick142 said:

i believe it's because the car deforming to the point the wheels lock up is the most annoying sh*t ever so they decided to make cars deform less

Not gonna lie, they should have left it like that.

[WildBrick142]

38 minutes ago, Gaffa said:

I always thought it was the actual damage model itself that was changed, as you can set a high deformation multiplier like 100 on a "new DLC vehicle" and it won't physically damage anything like the OG or early update cars. Crucially, the handling isn't affected, whereas damaging older vehicles, and the handling is massively impacted. Makes a right balls of things in races if you actually do have a collision, so even if any of the OG vehicles were still faster in the classes that "still get raced in", you'd have to ensure you didn't have any collisions to prevent the chance of any issues. 

As an example, below is the BF Club with the deformation damage modifier set to 100. Sure it's beat up, but it took at least 10 falls from around 800ft for it to look like this. 

https://gfycat.com/mellowhighlevelfruitfly

Next up we have the original Dinka Blista, with damage from just 5 falls, with the same deformation damage modifier value. Handling is definitely affected on this one... 

https://gfycat.com/alarmingmistyanteater

 

Oh well it looks like gfycat embeds don't work on this forum anymore. Nevermind. 

Having armour on any car prevents it from taking quite the same level of collision damage, so I guess that helps. 

 

you probably changed the fDeformationDamageMult variable in handling files, which is only responsible for the damage to the hidden car health. visual deformation is controlled by damageMapScale and damageOffsetScale in vehicles.meta

[Gaffa]

1 minute ago, WildBrick142 said:

you probably changed the fDeformationDamageMult variable in handling files, which is only responsible for the damage to the hidden car health. visual deformation is controlled by damageMapScale and damageOffsetScale in vehicles.meta

Oh great, another example of multiple things being used for one ultimate purpose. Dunno why they gotta' overcomplicate things! 😛 

[WildBrick142]

1 minute ago, Gaffa said:

Oh great, another example of multiple things being used for one ultimate purpose. Dunno why they gotta' overcomplicate things! 😛 

wouldn't be a rockstar game if it hadn't been overly complicated

[Gorn Lord]

6 hours ago, WildBrick142 said:

 

 

i believe it's because the car deforming to the point the wheels lock up is the most annoying sh*t ever so they decided to make cars deform less so it's not as much of a problem anymore - especially because those are "high-end" online-exclusive cars, and players might get put off by annoying singleplayer features that nobody asked for.

I don't recall you ever being able to damage a car enough to lock up the wheels in online. Even cars turned banana shaped with a tank are always able to drive away. The damage model from single player was scaled down quite a bit right from the beginning of online.

[Hazzardtohimself]

20 minutes ago, Gorn Lord said:

The damage model from single player was scaled down quite a bit right from the beginning of online.

That's very true. The original Online vehicles can get deformed enough for them to tripod, but the wheels will keep going whatever shape they're in, unlike single player where you can really wreck the driveline. 

 

Maybe (crossing of all the fingers) the "expanded / enhanced / buy-the-same-game-again-for-the-dozenth-time" version of GTA next year will have some consistency in vehicle coding  

[Watain]

I've been put off by some racing games throughout the years for not properly damaging cars when crashing. I was told this was due to real-life manufacturers not wanting to shed bad light on their cars, which makes sense. Naturally I thought this might be the case in GTA as well, but since R* doesn't use licensed cars but make their own hybrids, I guess it's just to make the cars sustainable in order to satisfy players who buy MTX.

 

Its like when I bought the Deluxo back in the day. For that price tag I thought "this better be very crashable", and it's basically like a light tank. Unrealistic, yes. Essential for all cars, no.

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

I mean, this is the same game in which vanilla cars are pretty much obsolete compared to more recent ones in both looks, customization and performance, it's not surprising that R* wants the former to be even more undesirable to buy by making the latter, which are way more expensive, pretty much impervious to damage from crashing.

[SilverRST]

6 hours ago, Watain said:

I've been put off by some racing games throughout the years for not properly damaging cars when crashing. I was told this was due to real-life manufacturers not wanting to shed bad light on their cars, which makes sense. Naturally I thought this might be the case in GTA as well, but since R* doesn't use licensed cars but make their own hybrids, I guess it's just to make the cars sustainable in order to satisfy players who buy MTX.

 

Its like when I bought the Deluxo back in the day. For that price tag I thought "this better be very crashable", and it's basically like a light tank. Unrealistic, yes. Essential for all cars, no.

It doesn't make any sense at all in my opinion. I mean, it's not like we buy real-life cars to mow down pedestrians in real life.

GTA cars doesn't even have the authentic brand names and authentic models. GTA4 has the best deformations and handlings but of course some stupid f*cking crybabies has to complain about how the cars drives like a boat...

 

This is a huge step back.

Edited November 26, 2020 by SilverRST

[Gaffa]

6 hours ago, YELLOW ZOOMER WITH DRONE said:

I mean, this is the same game in which vanilla cars are pretty much obsolete compared to more recent ones in both looks, customization and performance, it's not surprising that R* wants the former to be even more undesirable to buy by making the latter, which are way more expensive, pretty much impervious to damage from crashing.

Absolutely... sad truth. 
I guess that's why we don't really see much in the way of new industrial vehicles, earth-moving machines, buses and taxis, etc - there wouldn't really be that much demand for them from players, and as something to add to the game, it just wouldn't be worth it. 

[Watain]

3 hours ago, SilverRST said:

It doesn't make any sense at all in my opinion. I mean, it's not like we buy real-life cars to mow down pedestrians in real life.

GTA cars doesn't even have the authentic brand names and authentic models. GTA4 has the best deformations and handlings but of course some stupid f*cking crybabies has to complain about how the cars drives like a boat...

 

This is a huge step back.

From a marketing point it does make sense. As a manufacturer, do you want to be known for having safe cars, or cars that get absolutely squashed and shredded in a crash? It wouldn't really look good for Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, etc., if every other racing game portrayed their cars as getting totally wrecked from a single crash, even though it would make sense and be realistic. That doesn't sound/look very exotic and macho, does it?

 

I agree about the car handling in GTA IV. I for one loved it, once you got used to it. I was very disappointed with the car mechanics in GTA V after playing IV for years.

[Pedinhuh]

So it was a deliberate design choice of them to not make DLC vehicles deform, merely to appease to the casuals?

 

I always thought it was a hardware limitation on consoles and they didn't want to enable it on PC as to not make things too complicated from one platform from the other.

 

f*cking hell, this really just pissed me off now...

[SilverRST]

9 hours ago, Watain said:

From a marketing point it does make sense. As a manufacturer, do you want to be known for having safe cars, or cars that get absolutely squashed and shredded in a crash? It wouldn't really look good for Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, etc., if every other racing game portrayed their cars as getting totally wrecked from a single crash, even though it would make sense and be realistic. That doesn't sound/look very exotic and macho, does it?

 

I agree about the car handling in GTA IV. I for one loved it, once you got used to it. I was very disappointed with the car mechanics in GTA V after playing IV for years.

Then Burnout Paradise wants a chat with you 😛 That game is all about crashing and pushing your opponents off the roads MwhuahHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

The very first moment when I started and played GTA4... It was a massive difference and love it! Like it how some cars actually drives like sh*t, really sh*t and really slow as exactly how they are intended! The deformations were pure joy :3 Suspensions too and everything. When GTAV came out, the handlings are a massive step down and the high speed shake camera makes the game look really childish too.

 

 

54 minutes ago, Pedinhuh said:

So it was a deliberate design choice of them to not make DLC vehicles deform, merely to appease to the casuals?

 

I always thought it was a hardware limitation on consoles and they didn't want to enable it on PC as to not make things too complicated from one platform from the other.

 

f*cking hell, this really just pissed me off now...

Yep, that's right. It's actually very laughable in a bad way on how you crash at speed of light and still no dense! I'm out of words when I tried that.

I think it's because a lot of idiots complained about GTA4's handlings and this sh*t is the result. And to make it more complicated: carmods can have great deformations so the limitations thing is a really lame excuse. Not sure if you have tried some mods for storymode where the cars have better deformations? To give you a better idea: some of the mods even allows the cars to break after a few crashes, like engine catches fire and if crash one more time, engine will be damaged really bad.

[JON22]

Reason why I hardly buy new vehicles added since they deformed less compared to the first few update cars on last gen (360/ps3). Annoys me for some reason, sort of like an ocd. I'd buy a new vehicle, bash it about then sell it disappointed I can't smash it apart like on gta 4.

[suicidal_banana]

On 11/25/2020 at 2:17 PM, Hazzardtohimself said:

Indeed, most of the vehicles (that aren't based on pre-existing models - i.e.: Bennys conversions) released after 'Ill Gotten Gains 2' no longer have decent deformation.

There are a few exceptions, like the GT500, Michelle GT, and Penumbra FF which still can be crumpled though.

I love what happens with the stock wheels of the penumbra, if you blow the tires off them, half the rim 'shatters'/breaks off along with it, while there's at least a 50/50 chance its just a bug (its debatable how realistic this is and i'm sure internally there's just a value that says "cut this much off the outer rim when the tire gets blown" that they might've screwed up) imo its still a really nice touch that i would like to see for more cars & on custom wheels too:

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by suicidal_banana