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Big smoke relationship with the Russian Mafia


Dr Busta
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The Russian Mafia first appearance in the game was during the mission "Just Business" Where They probably ambushed Smoke During his deal with them And Tried to seriously Kill him And they also seem to know him very well since there are a lot of dialogues showing them calling him by his name ( only two were used for some reasons) Then their second appearance was during "Gray imports" where they were making a deal with the ballas but CJ successfully ambushed it and Killed Andre

Anyway later in the game We see them working for big smoke And Defending him during End of the line And during the beta stages CJ was supposed to kill the Russian Mafia boss instead of Andre And Andre was supposed to be A minor character Who's smoke's right hand and CJ would have beat him for information during all-terrain takedown mission 

so what do you think exactly happened that made Big smoke turn from their Enemy to Have them as his men.

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Simply put, drugs and money. Russians can also be seen making deals with the Ballas during the mission Gray Imports so it's clear that Smoke was either in cahoots with them the entire time, or he won their influence with lofty promises. I'm inclined to believe that the Russians changed their tune when they learned of Smoke's true allegiance. It's difficult to say when because Smoke is known to be liar and a fraud. I've always imagined that Smoke was never actually in danger during the mission Just Business and that the entire mission was a trap to have Carl killed.

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1 hour ago, Rhoda said:

It's difficult to say when because Smoke is known to be liar and a fraud. I've always imagined that Smoke was never actually in danger during the mission Just Business and that the entire mission was a trap to have Carl killed.

I have heard this theory before but the amount of resources those Russians invested in this mission makes me believe that they legitimately wanted to kill Smoke as well.

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K2yjoYK.png

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The only thing that really discredits this for me is that Smoke has a health bar that you're intended to defend. If that empties from too many shots, he dies and you fail the mission. If my theory was concrete, there wouldn't be a health bar because they're not aiming at him, they're supposed to be aiming at you. Otherwise, I strongly suspect that from the point of view of lore, the real intention is to remove you as the player and somebody that Smoke considers a threat to his operation. My first real clue that something was amiss that Big Smoke shouts "motherf*cker" very early on, almost immediately after walking in. Obviously this is done for comedic effect and timing, because CJ is shown attempting to woo a nearby woman whilst waiting outside. To me, nothing much could have gone wrong so quickly to lead to such a massive shoot-out that culminates in a chase. My second tip off was how quickly and easily you seem to lose the Russians in the alleyway. Up until that point they were hot on your back wheel. It wasn't like Smoke took you down a fork. They followed you down the flood tunnel and almost immediately you're seen as having lost them. It's almost as if they intentionally stopped following you as soon as you reached a certain point.

 

My favourite clue though? Grip your tin foil hats because this is rough territory. There exists an exploit in the game where if you run away as soon as the outdoor section of the game begins, Smoke's health bar borderline freezes. If you can escape quickly enough, you're given a lengthy free reign of the map without a wanted level and minimal traffic, useful for collecting oysters for example. I know that this is an unintended effect of the game and by no means is a reflection on the plot, but from a lore perspective it made absolute sense... sort of. Eventually, after a very long time, Smoke will eventually die as he normally would if you sat on your arse in the plaza and did nothing. However, hopping over the wall and booking it down the street seems to lock the shoot-out's progress for a while.

 

It's all bollocks I know, but it's fun to think about. Also, if you're unfamiliar with that glitch, I recommend it.

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In retrospect, Smoke was definitely trying to get CJ killed during the "Just Business" mission. When he and CJ ride through Downtown Los Santos to escape from the gang, Smoke parks right in front of the barricade instead of finding a way out. I mean the barricade was only to the right of them, and they had plenty of room on the other side to escape. Notice how Smoke doesn't budge until after CJ killed the Russians in the barricade and they start moving again. Afterwards, he claimed that he couldn't pick up speed during the chase because the gearbox was f*cked. How would he know about the gearbox if he just got on the bike minutes prior to the chase? Also, the Russians seem to know where CJ and Smoke are going since they set up a roadblock twice. How exactly would they prepare so quickly to set up roadblocks when they were only at the mall just minutes ago? There's no way that could happen unless Smoke helped them set up the whole thing before the mission came up in play. Those are signs that Smoke and the Russians set up a trap to get CJ killed, and they seemed to be the ones who were supplying Smoke with the crack after CJ wiped out the Loco Syndicate.

Edited by watersgta3
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  • 1 month later...
On 11/19/2020 at 10:25 PM, Rhoda said:

that Big Smoke shouts "motherf*cker" very early on,

For many years I used to think that it was the girl who shouted it at Carl attempting to seduce her - reveling that, in fact, "she" was a male cross dresser.

 

I was very disappointed when I learned that it was Big Smoke who actually shouted this.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

My best guess is that he just hired them to kill Carl. I doubt the Russian Mafia would want to get involved in the L.S scene.

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20 minutes ago, Sonny1 said:

My best guess is that he just hired them to kill Carl. I doubt the Russian Mafia would want to get involved in the L.S scene.

It's still hard for me to believe this since they can also kill smoke himself

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10 hours ago, DR:BUSTA said:

It's still hard for me to believe this since they can also kill smoke himself

Maybe a mistake from the devs? In my opinion,what lead me to believe Smoke paid them was the way they blocked roads and were set up. 

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1 minute ago, Sonny1 said:

Maybe a mistake from the devs? In my opinion,what lead me to believe Smoke paid them was the way they blocked roads and were set up. 

Well he has a health bar so it's not a mistake

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1 hour ago, DR:BUSTA said:

Well he has a health bar so it's not a mistake

This is what throws this theory into a brick wall. But the later makes quite makes some sense. Another similar one would be wrong side of the tracks where the Vagos were supposed to get CJ killed but again Smoke is shooting the whole time. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Big_Smiley said:

This is what throws this theory into a brick wall. But the later makes quite makes some sense. Another similar one would be wrong side of the tracks where the Vagos were supposed to get CJ killed but again Smoke is shooting the whole time. 

 

I think we were doing the Rifa a favor in this mission 

Remember how they were enemies with the Vagos ( the introduction scene where T-bone was beating a Vagos member) 

So probably after the deal we were supposed to kill the Vagos to retrieve the package ( the package thing was cut in both this mission and "running dog" which is very stupid)

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My guess is that in Just Business he meets with them for the first time,and they had a deal gone wrong.Sometimes after that he formed an allience with them through both of their connection with Ballas.

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11 hours ago, DR:BUSTA said:

the introduction scene where T-bone was beating a Vagos member) 

The thing is T-bone was beating up "Jose" one of Cesars OG's in the Azteca gang. But what plot hole does this guy 

XGW8LxG.png

have to do with??

 

Well apparently they simply reused his model, lmao. That alone creates a confusion as to why and how he even knew T-bone in the first place. I guess this "Jose" is simply different and unrealted to the other model seen when Jose confronts CJ in that lowrider mission thinking CJ was a wanna be ganster but thankfully he was saved on Cesars words.

 

He was labeled as a snitch as to why T-bone was beating him half to death (Killed from what T-bone mentions) But I don't remember this guy being related to the Vagos gang. 

 

Edited by Big_Smiley
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6 hours ago, Big_Smiley said:

But I don't remember this guy being related to the Vagos gang

Didn't he say that he smells him being a Vagos member ?

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I think that the whole deal with the Russians was actually orchestrated by Tenpenny. My theory is that Ballas and Russians tried to do business without Tenpenny getting his cut so he used Carl to covertly take down their operation. In Just Business TP and BS try to business with the Russian Mafia but the Russians know about TP being two-faced so they try to kill both CJ and Big Smoke.

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BrainDeadRaven

To throw my hat into this conspiracy -

 

I think Tenpenny set it up with the thought he was either going to get CJ killed, or have fewer Russians to be concerned about. He was always about keeping the balance between tribes, in his own words, he loves them doing his work for him. He tells the Russians to kill CJ, Smoke is there backup man, and this also answers how they knew Smoke. They both worked for Tenpenny, so he tells them, you take out this problem, and I'll take care of you. Probably turned out just how he wanted, with you surviving, he doesn't have to pay them, AND you trim down their numbers to what he considers a more equal number to their competition.

 

 

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16 hours ago, DR:BUSTA said:

Didn't he say that he smells him being a Vagos member ?

Na. T-bone mentions "I think this vatos a f*cking rat ese". "Vato" sounds simialr to Vago so I can see the similarities between to two sounding the same.

 

I almost forgot this thing was on YouTube. (Skip to 4:00)  

 

 

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9 hours ago, Big_Smiley said:

Na. T-bone mentions "I think this vatos a f*cking rat ese". "Vato" sounds simialr to Vago so I can see the similarities between to two sounding the same.

 

I almost forgot this thing was on YouTube. (Skip to 4:00)  

 

 

I still believe that they weren't friends with the Vagos and they wanted us to kill them to ruin the deal for the Vagos

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  • 1 month later...
iiCriminnaaL

There're many possibilities. Was it a try to get CJ killed? But then again, why would they shoot at Smoke if so? Did they turn their backs on him? Or was it made this way for the gameplay's sake? Was it a legit deal set by Tenpenny that went wrong? Which might also explain why he ordered CJ to ambush the deal between the Russian Mob and the Ballas.

 

The best assumption for me is that it was really a try to get CJ killed. He told CJ to wait for him outside rather than giving him a better cover by going inside with him immediately. Furthermore, we can see how extremely organized and well armed the Russian Mob was all over the streets, which implies that it was well set up before, and Big Smoke stopping by one of their roadblocks for no right reason supports this as well. The only plot hole here is that they really shoot at Big Smoke, and he even has a health bar, but that might be made this way just for the gameplay's sake as I mentioned.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 9:25 AM, DR:BUSTA said:

I still believe that they weren't friends with the Vagos and they wanted us to kill them to ruin the deal for the Vagos

Now this makes just as much sense as it (Wrong Side Of The Tracks) being just a try to get CJ killed, if not more. In order for Big Smoke to become as powerful as he became later, he had to keep the gangs separated in order to establish a powerful alliance with them on his own.

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santosvagos
On 4/10/2021 at 6:37 PM, iiCriminnaaL said:

There're many possibilities. Was it a try to get CJ killed? But then again, why would they shoot at Smoke if so? Did they turn their backs on him? Or was it made this way for the gameplay's sake? Was it a legit deal set by Tenpenny that went wrong? Which might also explain why he ordered CJ to ambush the deal between the Russian Mob and the Ballas.

 

The best assumption for me is that it was really a try to get CJ killed. He told CJ to wait for him outside rather than giving him a better cover by going inside with him immediately. Furthermore, we can see how extremely organized and well armed the Russian Mob was all over the streets, which implies that it was well set up before, and Big Smoke stopping by a one of their roadblocks for no right reason supports this as well. The only plot hole here is that they really shoot at Big Smoke, and he even has a health bar, but that might be made this way just for the gameplay's sake as I mentioned.

 

 

I think Big Smoke was about to make a deal with the Russian mod to get the protection for his drug rings and the Russians waiting outside were there to make sure nothing went wrong. Later on in the game, there may be a chance that Tenpenny became a middle man between Smoke and the Russians. He help solved their conflicts by letting them control the drug market of SA and Russian mods realized that how much money they could made with Smoke and under CRASH's umbrella . Overall, IT'S JUST BUSSINESS. 

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GhettoJesus
On 4/10/2021 at 1:37 PM, iiCriminnaaL said:

The only plot hole here is that they really shoot at Big Smoke, and he even has a health bar, but that might be made this way just for the gameplay's sake as I mentioned.

There are two more. The first is the amount of Russians outside. The chase wasn't a plan B because it is too well organized and no one could have phoned for backup. This raises the question: why organize something this grandiose? If the plot was to kill CJ then the Russians in the building could have easily done it.

 

The second loophole is Smoke not shooting CJ. They are next to each other shooting at Russians. In the heat of the gunfight you don't really have a time to look at your sides. Smoke could have easily turned to tge right and pop CJ.

 

But then again why does Smoke stand in one place for so long at the roadblock? The mission is just very poorly written.

K2yjoYK.png

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  • 4 weeks later...
Lancerator
On 3/8/2021 at 4:44 AM, BrainDeadRaven said:

To throw my hat into this conspiracy -

 

I think Tenpenny set it up with the thought he was either going to get CJ killed, or have fewer Russians to be concerned about. He was always about keeping the balance between tribes, in his own words, he loves them doing his work for him. He tells the Russians to kill CJ, Smoke is there backup man, and this also answers how they knew Smoke. They both worked for Tenpenny, so he tells them, you take out this problem, and I'll take care of you. Probably turned out just how he wanted, with you surviving, he doesn't have to pay them, AND you trim down their numbers to what he considers a more equal number to their competition.

 

 

I second this.

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