That Thread about US current events

[sivispacem]

2 hours ago, Eutyphro said:

I don't really feel like going through tl;dr monoliths of text, but I do think this point is the one where you are most wrong. BLM riots that happened in the summer and what happened at the Capitol are two events that are just a different side of the general disintegration of political trust. It's all action and reaction, and intimately connected.

I think you probably tool the "tl;dr" a little far here given the point you cite as "most wrong" is one that I never made. My point, which is fairly obvious if you look back across my previous posts, is that an armed insurrection against a legitimate government isn't really comparable to more "typical", if I can use that word, violent protest. Very few people would draw moral equivalence between the two, and the actions of senior Republican figures and particularly Trump's inner circle in instigating events at the Capitol is worlds away from anything Democrats did vis-a-vis the protests through the summer. 

[Eutyphro]

1 hour ago, sivispacem said:

I think you probably tool the "tl;dr" a little far here given the point you cite as "most wrong" is one that I never made. My point, which is fairly obvious if you look back across my previous posts, is that an armed insurrection against a legitimate government isn't really comparable to more "typical", if I can use that word, violent protest.

The Trumpist 'coup' attempt is qualitatively worse than the summer BLM riots, true. The scale of left wing riots over the summer was quantitatively far far greater though.
 

Quote

Very few people would draw moral equivalence between the two, and the actions of senior Republican figures and particularly Trump's inner circle in instigating events at the Capitol is worlds away from anything Democrats did vis-a-vis the protests through the summer. 

I think I agree with this. Trump and the Republicans have definitely through their rhetoric been more directly causally responsible for what happened at the Capitol, than the Democrats were concerning the BLM riots that happened during the summer. What has to be pointed out though is that the Democrats actually condemning the BLM riots was usually rare and/or late. The actors whitewashing these riots were the mainstream media, who are allied to the Democratic establishment.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Eutyphro

[ddarko12]

On 1/11/2021 at 8:13 AM, E.A.B. said:

I do wanna know how Im "acting" though. Please, tell me. How am I acting? I wanna know.

I've told you multiple times how you've been acting. Like a gaslighting, dismissive, arrogant, sorry excuse for a debater who chooses to completely disregard anyone's perspective and isn't really bothering to contribute to the discussion anyway. I think you just want to argue for the sake of arguing and have nothing actually solid to provide whenever someone calls you out on your bullsh*t.

 

You try to tell people what they've experienced, or what the real problem is without being a part of that group to begin with. I don't care what race you are but if you're trying to tell another what they go through, you're full of sh*t. And if you're black and dismissing what black people go through, then yes you are being an Uncle Tom. One of those sorry ass black men who wears MAGA hats and brags about how they can think for themselves because they aren't sucked into "the left's" narrative while they continue to ignore or dismiss what happens around them.

 

It's sad, really. I think you've really derailed the discussion of this thread. I think you're acting like a child. That's how you're acting.

 

Oh and as sivis pointed out about, I've always condemned the violence of what happened in July. I was pretty big on that actually. But to completely invalidate BLM as a group because of it and compare it to what these clowns did January 6th is just wrong. There was a lot of bullsh*t I saw that made my stomach flip back in the summer. But I don't actually think that's what BLM stands for to begin with. And those protests were not spurred on by false information to the extent that these recent riots were. You have people who refuse to accept the outcome of the election vs people who see what happens to their people and the injustice that follows. It isn't comparable.

 

And I feel like people are only comparing it to try and downplay how bad what just happened was. And the reasons why it happened.

Edited January 12, 2021 by ddarko12

[sivispacem]

22 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

The Trumpist 'coup' attempt is qualitatively worse than the summer BLM riots, true.

That's basically all I've been saying, and I really don't know why so many people in the thread have taken issue with it.

 

22 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

The scale of left wing riots over the summer was quantitatively far far greater though.

They're also incomparable in general scale. The BLM protests over the summer involved, by some estimates, 26 million people. That's nearly ten percent of the US population, across five months. Conversely, we've seen a few thousand to low tens of thousands total across the various MAGA and stop-the-steal events post-election. I would hazard that the latter have seen a substantially higher instance of violence per capita than the summer BLM protests did, especially given that the spat the Proud Boys seem to be in with law enforcement at the moment. 

 

22 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

What has to be pointed out though is that the Democrats actually condemning the BLM riots was usually rare and/or late.

I'm not actually all that convinced this is true. Many Democrat figures were explicit in their statements that, although they broadly support the ideological cause of BLM (as do a significant majority of Americans generally) they don't condone violence perpetrated in their name.

As an aside, I'm a big fan of the "Y'all Qaeda" term that seems to be doing the rounds to describe the militia movement, white supremacist and other assorted far right extremists who have advocated and perpetrated violence in support of Trump's false narratives.

[Creed Bratton]

17 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

They're also incomparable in general scale. The BLM protests over the summer involved, by some estimates, 26 million people. That's nearly ten percent of the US population, across five months.

It's also important to note that BLM protests exist because of a genuine problem that's been fermenting for decades and that has been proven as true in numerous studies that show a definitive link between race and police treatment, not on a bunch of lies and conspiracy theories. Nothing about those two events is comparable aside from the fact that both involve a large number of people who are unhappy with some of the authority figures.

[Eutyphro]

I wouldn't say the BLM narrative is nearly as false as the 'stolen election' narrative, which is 100% false, but the ideas pushed by BLM in my experience are also very often false. The data does not back up the idea that an officer is more likely to shoot a black suspect. It's simply not the case. Young African American men are responsible for over 50% of violent crime in the United States, and suffer more violent police incidents proportionally to this contribution. An overwhelming majority of black shooting victims are killed by other black Americans. Everyone here who has seen the figures knows this is true.

[Halal Cyborg]

Personally I accept all views from POC and don’t feel there is a correct way to react to BLM.

 

I saw a tiktok where a guy claimed white leftists tried to weaponise his skin colour...thats incredibly condescending and racist to try and tell someone they have to support a particular cause because of their race.

 

I would never do this and it’s amazing how quiet people become that call themselves anti racism activists when a person doesn’t fit their narrative...I guess they’re an inconvenience  

[trip]

Here is a good article on the Parler scraping.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/01/parlers-amateur-coding-could-come-back-to-haunt-capitol-hill-rioters/?amp=1

 

It even in includes the script that was used.  Neat.

[Halal Cyborg]

17 minutes ago, trip said:

Here is a good article on the Parler scraping.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/01/parlers-amateur-coding-could-come-back-to-haunt-capitol-hill-rioters/?amp=1

 

It even in includes the script that was used.  Neat.

Yes they don’t strike me as the best at that type of thing  

[Raavi]

17 hours ago, Craigsters said:

 

he'll be lucky if he gets a bologna sandwich with  mildew on the meat and bread, let alone  organic food, starve you  idiot 

 

 

Or not.

 

 

[sivispacem]

3 hours ago, Eutyphro said:

The data does not back up the idea that an officer is more likely to shoot a black suspect. 

Per capita, black Americans are something like three and a half times as likely as white Americans to be killed by police.

 

3 hours ago, Eutyphro said:

Young African American men are responsible for over 50% of violent crime in the United States, and suffer more violent police incidents proportionally to this contribution. 

There's a few issues here.

 

Firstly, the fact that minorities are over-represented in crime, or violent crime, doesn't implicitly justify a higher rate of police shooting. It's noteworthy in my view that unarmed black Americans are something like 3 times as likely to be killed by law enforcement that white Americans.

 

Secondly, it's unreasonable not to consider the reasons for disparity in rates of violence. Socioeconomic factors that disproportionately affect minorities are a key driver behind criminality. When added to the fact that multiple studies show that the "barrier for intervention" (that is, the point at which an officer will instigate an interaction with a potential suspect) is significantly lower for minorities overall and particularly African-Americans, then higher levels of recorded criminality aren't exactly surprising.

[Craigsters]

2 hours ago, Raavi said:

 

Or not.

 

 

Oh that little whiney bitch should get the same food all the other inmates get

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Craigsters

[Eutyphro]

I remember studies that showed that black suspects resist arrest significantly more often. And we all see that most of the suspects that make the media had done some dumb sh*t right before, like shoot an officer with a taser. And I remember other studies that showed that white officers were more prone to pulling the trigger on a white suspect than a black suspect. I think it was one of those conservative police forum members that everyone hates that brought up some of those studies. And regardless of how wrong that guy was about many things, about these matters I knew he was mostly right. 

The media and BLM push the narrative "WHITE POLICE OFFICERS ARE MURDERING BLACKS IN THE STREETS AS MODERN LYNCHINGS" and an honest look at the data quite easily indicates this has no basis in reality at all, In fact, black officers are more likely to shoot a black suspect than a white officer is. But the media has the power to create an alternate view of reality, especially if it makes a powerful headline.

If we want to talk about mass incarceration, this is a different subject, but it is the one that is ignored by mass media. Mass incarceration is horrific and a problem with a genuine basis in reality. But white police gangs looking for unarmed blacks to shoot is not a thing, regardless of how good of a headline that spook story makes.

I'm not an expert on these statistics though, and I don't feel like spending a whole day digging into them to prove these points. I have studied them in the past though, and challenge anyone to look at them and see how well media narratives hold up, not at all.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Eutyphro

[Halal Cyborg]

Just sharing his perspective...I know he’s basically Ron

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Halal Cyborg

[Zello]

3 minutes ago, Halal Cyborg said:

 

 

 

It's gotten so crazy that king crazy himself has told people not to act crazy lmao.

[Halal Cyborg]

Just now, Zello said:

 

It's gotten so crazy that king crazy himself has told people not to act crazy lmao.

He’s saying something pretty batsh*t though as the reason they shouldn’t go.

 

Speaking of deplatforming he was too wasn’t he?

[Craigsters]

 

 

 

the FBI warned of armed attacks on all fifty states capitols from the 17th till 20th 

 

FBI warns 'armed protests' being planned at all 50 state capitols and in Washington DC

Edited January 12, 2021 by Craigsters

[sivispacem]

10 minutes ago, Halal Cyborg said:

He’s saying something pretty batsh*t 

That's literally Alex Jones schtick.

 

39 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

I remember studies that showed that black suspects resist arrest significantly more often...And I remember other studies that showed that white officers were more prone to pulling the trigger on a white suspect than a black suspect

The first one of these I'd like to see evidence for. The latter is a claim Burblade made which falls foul of the same issues I pointed to before (IE the only justification for shootings being the specific circumstances of the arrest). A lot of this may well boil down to the nature of an approach (IE a higher proportion of interactions with white suspects being as a result of blue-light emergencies versus a higher proportion of black suspects being subject of interaction during patrol activities or other proactive rather than reactive policing).

 

46 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

In fact, black officers are more likely to shoot a black suspect than a white officer is. 

This doesn't preclude there bring intrinsic bias in the way the police handles approaches to different ethnicities, though. It's more readily explained by the fact minority officers are more likely to work the beat in economically deprived areas where s higher proportion of the population are themselves minorities.

[Craigsters]

QAnon supporters are being told not to  update the cellphones waiting on a  text message from Trump   for there next attack, something to those words 

 

QAnon falsehoods move to text message chains - NBC News

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This scarf has been an ongoing talk of the town in Sweden since the riots at the Capitol. It was found discarded on the ground outside the Capitol. The scarf is a rare scarf sent out from the swedish municipality of Skellefteå in a limited edition of only a 1000 copies some years ago. The question is: Who is the man wearing it and how did he get a hold of the scarf. Do you know who he is? One of Swedens largest evening newspapers Expressen ran this story tonight. They want any tips they can get about him. Source:

 

Sweden wants to know who the man in Skelleteå-scarf is!

Edited January 13, 2021 by Craigsters

[RARusk]

On 1/11/2021 at 8:13 PM, Craigsters said:

 

he'll be lucky if he gets a bologna sandwich with  mildew on the meat and bread, let alone  organic food, starve you  idiot 

 

The way his mouth is open makes it look like he's about to receive somebody's money shot. As for Parler's site I assume it was either written in crayon or using Apple II Basic.

[Craigsters]

House approves resolution calling to remove Trump despite Pence rejecting 25th Amendment push <- CNN link and additional video at CNN site

Edited January 13, 2021 by Craigsters

[Craigsters]

 

sorry for the double post, but this you've got to see, she's quite the character , the part that get's interesting is 8 minutes into the interview

Edited January 13, 2021 by Craigsters

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

42 minutes ago, Craigsters said:

 

sorry for the double post, but this you've got to see, she's quite the character , the part that get's interesting is 8 minutes into the interview

 

I've got dementia in my family as well....  Joe 'might' have issues with it longer term, but right now he hasn't.

I doubt he'll be up for a second term anyway.

 

[Craigsters]

 

Man in 'Camp Auschwitz' sweatshirt during Capitol riot arrested, law enforcement official says

[trip]

Trump was just impeached in the house again.  First time in history a president has ever been impeached twice.  History!

 

 

Kind of hope we get to be part of some good history soon too.

Edited January 13, 2021 by trip

[Craigsters]

upper chamber of senate

17 minutes ago, trip said:

Trump was just impeached in the house again.  First time in history a president has ever been impeached twice.  History!

 

 

Kind of hope we get to be part of some good history soon too.

 

My neighbour said something about going to a  upper chamber of senate where evidence and people  have to  appear to finish the process  and  it well take two weeks to do so, is he right???

 

 

I'm reading else where that by Friday they have to convict him

Edited January 13, 2021 by Craigsters

[trip]

12 minutes ago, Craigsters said:

upper chamber of senate

 

My neighbour said something about going to a  upper chamber of senate where evidence and people  have to  appear to finish the process  and  it well take two weeks to do so, is he right???

Yeah.  It has to go over to the senate now.  There is no set date but it is looking like it won't be until Trump is gone.  

[Craigsters]

The same neighbour  also said it is going to get violent in the states with the trump supporters  rioting etc

[trip]

56 minutes ago, Craigsters said:

The same neighbour  also said it is going to get violent in the states with the trump supporters  rioting etc

Let's hope not.   I at least hope your every-day nut has been deterred by some of the arrests and NoFlyList videos and such.  I'm sure we will see small packs here and there, but nothing like The Capital riot last week.

 

And in another month I hope we can all take a deep breath and continue onward.

 

 

[Lonely-Martin]

1 hour ago, trip said:

Trump was just impeached in the house again.  First time in history a president has ever been impeached twice.  History!

 

 

Kind of hope we get to be part of some good history soon too.

 

Isn't this is all just what he wants now though? The more he gets this sort of attention, the more he can't just fade away with history. Basically all he wanted from it all IMHO.

 

Not saying the muppet shouldn't be held accountable of course, just the quicker he's a forgotten fallen fool the better.