That Thread about US current events

[Raavi]

With the US Presidential Election little over a month away, and the first of the debates on tonight I figured it would be a good time to open a thread. Like the one we did for the 2016 election, this thread will cater to anything and everything 2020 election. The idea is for it to be more informal. 

 

For a more formal in-depth debate setting we have the General US Politics Discussion in D&D.

 

Play nice. 

[make total destroy]

 

[trip]

 

 

Look!  You'll never get who you want in office.  No one ever does.  But make sure to vote. 

[Zello]

The debate is tonight feels like a boxing fight

[make total destroy]

"an-TEE-fa is bad" - donald j. trump

[Vanzant]

Well I learned nothing...

[Raavi]

This was the worst debate I have watched.

[RithRake24]

It was like watching toddlers quarrel in a playground for real...

[Twist Of Sugar Venom]

Biden done a lot better than I expected actually. He wasn’t (as bad as) the fumbling mess we’ve seen him in recent weeks.

 

It started off fine, both were pretty respectful, more on Biden’s part actually but then delved into borderline playground arguing. President Trump made some good points but went about them badly by constantly interrupting Biden. For the most part, it did feel like it was Trump v Biden and Wallace though, especially when they were both telling him to condemn white supremacy even though he’s done it multiple times during his administration, then giving Biden a free pass on the Antifa violence. 

[Mister Pink]

If this is the best the USA has to produce (and I don't think that for a second), then the country is f*cked. I'm not a conspiratorial guy but it seems like like this whole thing is just a charade. Each party being the puppeteer for their puppet candidate. These people are senile. Their brains are slow. I respect age and experience but these guys are way over the hill and would only really be still in touch with people middle-aged and senior people - basically the type of people they actually serve, not the average person under 40 struggling to make ends meet. 

 

I've only watched a few minutes in but neither of them impressed me with anything they said. These two charmless old men have the collective wit of a swollen tampon. I felt my brain cells committing suicide and this painful debate that ran something like two bickering old uncles at Christmas party. 

 

My opinion might change when I see the rest of the thing but right now it's bleak.  

[sivispacem]

On 9/30/2020 at 6:51 AM, TwistOfLime21 said:

...then giving Biden a free pass on the Antifa violence. 

Given that Biden has never spoken in favour or support of Antifa, whereas Trump has repeatedly acted as an apologist for white nationalist and supremacist groups- "good people", in his words- I don't really think the two are comparable.

[Twist Of Sugar Venom]

15 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

Given that Burden has never spoken in favour or support of Antifa, whereas Trump has repeatedly acted as an apologist for white nationalist and supremacist groups- "good people", in his words- I don't really think the two are comparable.

Trump has specifically condemned white nationalists though, in the same speech you quoted too. Biden gets around it by condemning all violence, not specific groups. 

[Detective Phelps]

Yeah, "condemning" white supremacists by telling the proud boys to "stand back and stand by"... 

 

Well, I won't be surprised if Trump wins again, both candidates are terrible, it's another "the lesser of two evils" situation, with Biden being the lesser of two evils. Even if Biden wins the popular vote, Trump could repeat his electoral college victory. 

[sivispacem]

4 hours ago, TwistOfLime21 said:

Trump has specifically condemned white nationalists though

The reason I used the word "apologist" rather than "advocate" is because of his cursory platitudes. Really I'm probably giving him much too much credit given that he seems perfectly happy both to call on them to get ready to commit violence to maintain his grip on power, and casually entertain their ideological leaders.

 

4 hours ago, TwistOfLime21 said:

Biden gets around it by condemning all violence, not specific groups. 

"Antifa" (by which I suspect you actually mean "black blocs") don't support Biden in the way that white nationalists actively and violently support Trump, so it's not even a remotely analogous comparison.

 

There's also a difference between condemning an inherently racist ideological position in principle, and condemning anti-fascism in principle. I think most people would agree that the principle causes that motivate Antifa- resistance and hostility to far right extremism, racism and ultranationalism- are a welcome thing even if you don't agree with the methods that black blocs may use to enforce this (IE direct violent confrontation).

 

The same is not true of white nationalist groups. Their ideology doesn't cease to be intrinsically harmful and objectively awful if they stop engaging in violence to perpetuate it.

[Twist Of Sugar Venom]

38 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

The reason I used the word "apologist" rather than "advocate" is because of his cursory platitudes. Really I'm probably giving him much too much credit given that he seems perfectly happy both to call on them to get ready to commit violence to maintain his grip on power, and casually entertain their ideological leaders.

 

"Antifa" (by which I suspect you actually mean "black blocs') don't support Biden in the way that white nationalists actively and violently support Trump, so it's not even a remotely analogous comparison.

When has he called for violence?

 

Yes, Antifa. The dorks rioting in the street dressed in black and wearing masks. Last I checked, it was them and Burn Loot Murder committing all the violence. It’s not white nationalists attacking people, dragging them out of their cars, smashing store windows, throwing fireworks and molotovs at police, using lasers to blind officers, burning down stores etc. Michael Reinoehl literally walked up to a Trump supporter and shot him point blank so spare me the violent white nationalist line. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by TwistOfLime21

[RithRake24]

3 hours ago, Detective Phelps said:

both candidates are terrible

Best way to summarise the situation from what I've seen lmao

 

EDIT: Just wanted to add this since I just came across it randomly:

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by RithRake24
To avoid a double-post because no one likes them

[sivispacem]

19 hours ago, TwistOfLime21 said:

When has he called for violence?

 

22 hours ago, Detective Phelps said:

telling the proud boys to "stand back and stand by"... 

Amongst multiple other times in recent weeks, usually focused on encouraging violence supporting groups to deploy should he lose the election (which he's already falsely asserted has "been rigged").

 

19 hours ago, TwistOfLime21 said:

Yes, Antifa. The dorks rioting in the street dressed in black and wearing masks...it was them and Burn Loot Murder committing all the violence

Black blocs =! Antifa. Not all people who align to Antifa's ideologies are members of black blocs, and not all black blocs are comprised of people who identify as supporting Antifa. 

 

"Antifa" has basically just become American shorthand for "left-wing black blocs" which is nice and easy from the perspective of creating an "us and them" to hand-wring and shriek "think of the children" about, but not very helpful at actually explaining events.

 

 

Also, 93% of BLM protests were entirely peaceful.

 

19 hours ago, TwistOfLime21 said:

It’s not white nationalists attacking people

League of the South, Proud Boys, Atomwaffen, CofCC, Three Percenters, Boogaloos, Aryan Brotherhood, Patriot Prayer, Oath Keepers and veritable smorgasbord of other christian identity, identarian, neo-Nazi and white nationalist groups beg to differ.

 

You are aware that the outright majority of fatalities associated with instances of terrorism within the United States in 14 of the last 21 years have been directly caused by far right groups, and that over 90% of US domestic terrorist attacks and plots in the first half of 2020 were conducted by right wing extremists?

 

19 hours ago, TwistOfLime21 said:

Michael Reinoehl literally walked up to a Trump supporter and shot him point blank

Thankfully, cherry-picking doesn't constitute a coherent argument otherwise I'd point to the Boogaloos drive-by shooting police officers to try and instigate violent reactions against protestors.

[unopesci]

6 hours ago, Mister Pink said:

If this is the best the USA has to produce (and I don't think that for a second), then the country is f*cked. I'm not a conspiratorial guy but it seems like like this whole thing is just a charade. Each party being the puppeteer for their puppet candidate. These people are senile. Their brains are slow. I respect age and experience but these guys are way over the hill and would only really be still in touch with people middle-aged and senior people - basically the type of people they actually serve, not the average person under 40 struggling to make ends meet. 

 

I've only watched a few minutes in but neither of them impressed me with anything they said. These two charmless old men have the collective wit of a swollen tampon. I felt my brain cells committing suicide and this painful debate that ran something like two bickering old uncles at Christmas party. 

 

My opinion might change when I see the rest of the thing but right now it's bleak.  

This is it right hear. as much as Trump disgusts me Biden did not impress me either as someone able to reunite the USA or even begin to drag it out of the dark hole it has fallen into over recent years. The whole thing just left me feeling sad and pessimistic about the future of the country.  to my American friends unfortunately either way the sh*t show is far from over.

[GhettoJesus]

Didn't watch but I don't really care but I saw a snippet where Biden was asked about a filibuster and he was talking about the importance of voting. I support presidential debates, especially when the candidates are put in the hot seat so they are asked hard questions thus letting the people see them at their best. But what is the point if you aren't even going to answer the question and when the other one is such a buffoon that he can't even wait for the other to finish his sentence. It looked liked a playground fight.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

The praise is coming in from all sides :

[CosmicBuffalo]

Trump smashed Biden in this debate.  The best part was when Biden tried to go after Trump trumpeting his veteran son, but the one that the public knows nothing about...and before he even finished his attack...Trump was like....who, Hunter?  It is exactly what everyone who knows anything knows about Biden is thinking when he starts talking about foreign policy.  Biden looked down and started stuttering, it was a classic flip him on his back and watch him squirm. 

 

In the end, Biden was defending his son, deflecting by trying to say he has an addiction and that he is proud of his son.  While that may be

true, the media has given Biden a pass on this.  That's why when Biden said, its been completely discredited, and Trump's response is, by who?  rings so true, the media is so clearly in the tank for Biden, its laughable.  Hunter gave one interview and it was a colossal disaster and was never called for any testimony during impeachment or any other hearing to my knowledge.  Its not like Hunter is still working on energy boards raking in money after his father left office.  His positions were clearly related to his father's government position.  

 

Regarding mainstream media sources, just one recent story is a clear example of why everyone should simply not trust the media blindly.   If you think Trump called any soldiers losers and seriously meant it, I mean what a joke, you will believe just about anything shoveled by these outlets. The only reason these stories have any credibility is from Trump attacking John McCain, a hypocrite and actual loser. Lost to Obama and earned his title.  No one should trust these outlets, yet it seems the left takes them as gospel right now. They used to not trust these outlets blindly.

[Rewas]

The best part about the debate is the memes.

[Lock n' Stock]

Was like watching a bunch of schoolchildren arguing, ridiculous.

 

I'm just gonna leave this here.

 

 

[Raavi]

As the response in this thread and the general response once more illustrates. These debates don’t make anyone move an inch in either direction. Trumpers love his tough-guy bully attitude and will defend him no matter what he says or does, Biden supporters can see with few exceptions Biden didn’t really get out of the gate but he is not Trump, which is all that matters. 

 

These debates really are an exercise in futility. 

[Lonely-Martin]

15 hours ago, Zello said:

The debate is tonight feels like a boxing fight

The Jerry Springer Show more like, lol.

 

18 hours ago, Raavi said:

For a more formal in-depth debate setting we have the General US Politics Discussion in D&D.

A guilty pleasure of a thread for sure. And cheers for what could be another!

 

I don't care about Biden, I'm a Brit so have no horse in this crazy race, but if he gets that old joke out of office, can't come soon enough. The Trump jokes are getting old now and our British comedians and TV shows need something new to take the piss out of. It's run its course, but could be an epic finale to it all especially if he loses and kicks off over the change of power.

[TheSantader25]

So one of these two is gonna be the most influential person on the world's situation in the next 4 years. Yeah, no wonder the last 5 years have been utter sh*t in every imaginable aspect. Looks like more is gonna come. 

[Zello]

5 hours ago, Lonely-Martin said:

The Jerry Springer Show more like, lol.

Should have put boxing gloves on both of them and let them knock each other out.

[make total destroy]

11 hours ago, TwistOfLime21 said:

Michael Reinoehl literally walked up to a Trump supporter and shot him point blank so spare me the violent white nationalist line. 

This framing of events ignores that hours earlier, a caravan of Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer members drove through the streets of Portland in pick-up trucks, shooting people--not even just counter-protesters, but journalists and random pedestrians on the street--with paintball guns, spraying them with mace and pepper spray, and getting out of their trucks to attack people documenting their actions with fists and clubs. It also ignores the past 3 years of Patriot Prayer rallies that incited violence on the streets of Portland, as well as two attempted shootings of protesters by Proud Boys (one of whom, Alan Swinney, was just arrested on 6 felony charges, and has an extensive history of violent crime) in the weeks leading up to the shooting of this "Trump supporter" (who just so happened to be armed, and a member of the hate group, Patriot Prayer). It was not as though he was simply shot and killed for wearing a MAGA hat, him and his cohorts had been terrorizing Portland residents throughout the day, and again, throughout the last 3 years. Patriot Prayer and Proud Boy rallies are to violent neo-Nazis as sh*t is to flies. For example, Jeremy Christian, the neo-Nazi who murdered 2 people who confronted him for accosting two young muslim women on a train, was an associate of Patriot Prayer and had attended several of their rallies in Portland. The organizations themselves welcome neo-Nazis and white nationalists with open arms, because they share the same reactionary goal: to beat back left-wing social movements. It was only a matter of time before one of them was killed. How does the saying go? "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes"?

Edited September 30, 2020 by make total destroy

[RedDagger]

9 hours ago, Raavi said:

As the response in this thread and the general response once more illustrates. These debates don’t make anyone move an inch in either direction. Trumpers love his tough-guy bully attitude and will defend him no matter what he says or does, Biden supporters can see with few exceptions Biden didn’t really get out of the gate but he is not Trump, which is all that matters. 

 

These debates really are an exercise in futility. 

Polling seems to agree as well

Quote

There is no movement in voter intent for either candidate after the debate.

Quote

Favorability ratings for the two candidates are consistent with where they stood before the debate.

Don't have much hope future debates will do anything different, personally.

[Zello]

The Vice Presidential debate is next week. I'm sure that will end up better. But people hardly care for those.