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Jenkiiii

Lock requested. Topic over.

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SummerFreeze
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Pedinhuh said:

I see your point and I won't debate that, but I should add that the grinding on last gen was 10x more bearable than what it is today.

 

Nonsense like 1.3 millions for a peasant 1st gen VW Golf wouldn't fly back then, specially when the game was still new and making the headlines of gaming websites(even though it was a broken mess).

But the Adder costs 1 million and while it is a model of a hypercar, it's arguably less useful than the Club because it was never viable for racing.

 

How many contact missions did you have to play to earn 1 million on last gen? Nowadays the casino heist pays a lot of money (when done right) and isn't as grindy as doing crates, for example.

 

11 hours ago, Fun 2 said:

Plus, the glitch required a free property or garage to make profit right?

What little I know about it is that the free property from the CESP was only needed for one of the many workarounds after Rockstar started trying to patch the glitch. But it wasn't a requirement.

 

9 hours ago, EkaSwede said:

And if you wouldn't have enough money on hand and bank because you spent it on car bonds thinking you were smart, surprise, you'd end up with negative money.

I believe it's not technically possible for players to have negative money, else Rockstar would have certainly tried this approach already.

 

48 minutes ago, Spectre143 said:

Literally almost no one would complain if they took a lazy approach and just rolled back their servers for every single GtaOnline account before the exploit/glitch was abused + gave a everyone free 1-2 million GTA$ as compensation.

The glitch went on for days, so they would have had to roll back a lot of player progress.

 

But even if the rollback were only a few hours, the complaints would have been a hundred times bigger, and justifiably so, because why punish everyone over the actions of a few who should have known what they are doing isn't legit.

 

Wiping those found to have participated in the glitch through a script (which likely caused false positives) *is* the lazy approach.

Edited by SummerFreeze
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HopalongCasidy

Uh, I was gifted billions in the early days and it got wiped, along with everyone else's, so the precedent was there.  The cry when everyone's bank balance resets to 0 in next gen is going to be epic.  

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Midnight Ryder
18 minutes ago, HopalongCasidy said:

Uh, I was gifted billions in the early days and it got wiped, along with everyone else's, so the precedent was there.  The cry when everyone's bank balance resets to 0 in next gen is going to be epic.  

 

Well my friend learned his lesson, only dupe and learn the rules of that game.

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HopalongCasidy

Or, you know, play the f*cking game.  

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Black-Dragon96
1 hour ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Rockstar knew those players most certainly used the glitched money they obtained to buying everything in the game they could want. Meaning just a money wipe would not be quite an effective punishment as the players would still get out ahead from buying what they could before it was taken.

Well they could have just rolled them back to a cloudsave before the glitch.

Would have fixed the money and the stuff bought with it. However that would have taken effort and we all know that current R* rarely puts effort into something they get no gain out of.

 

1 hour ago, Spectre143 said:

Literally almost no one would complain if they took a lazy approach and just rolled back their servers for every single GtaOnline account before the exploit/glitch was abused + gave a everyone free 1-2 million GTA$ as compensation.

Yes people would have complained and I would have been one of them.

I made around 12 Million in that period, bought multiple cars, won an 811 and unlocked some stuff.

 

And there wouldnt even be the need to roll back everybody but just the people who did the glitch and were detected. The can do that and they have done in the past. Im pretty sure they did it with my account back when some modmenu cocknugget forced me to level 8k. I had the money that I had the day before I met the cocknugget and I rusty rebel I had stored was gone.

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The Jungz
3 hours ago, Spectre143 said:

Either way, what's done is done, not gonna bother doing 7 years of grind all over again when FiveM exists on PC + trying to get my hands on an insured Lost Slamvan on GtaOnline.

What's ironic is that you could probably get back to where you were in no time in this clusterf*ck of a game. It's constructed like the worst Jenga tower imaginable.

 

I got one of my spare account reset back in May and I was already back to having a billion+ in about 2 days. That's on Rockstar, not me. They're the ones who've let this game grow out like a fungus, riddled with bugs, exploits and workaround.

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Midnight Ryder
3 minutes ago, HopalongCasidy said:

Or, you know, play the f*cking game.  

 

Under the 2014 economy no problem, but nowadays I'll take the EWO lol

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Ghoffman9
1 minute ago, Black-Dragon96 said:

Well they could have just rolled them back to a cloudsave before the glitch.

Would have fixed the money and the stuff bought with it. However that would have taken effort and we all know that current R* rarely puts effort into something they get no gain out of.

Its not so cut and dry as you make it out to be. There are many questions that cannot be answered.

When was the glitch created?

When did it start seeing widespread use?

When did each individual player start using it?

What things did they purchase with the glitched money?

 

These are things none of us can answer, not even Rockstar.

 

Then there is the issue with the rollback. A rollback is an all or nothing action. Either they roll everyone back, or they roll no one back. Meaning players who played by the rules and never did the exploit get punished as well, and for something they never did. That to me would be a greater injustice. Punishing the innocent.

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Neuling2000
59 minutes ago, EkaSwede said:

How do you spend a billion dollars in a very short time?

40 Bombushkas, 20 Opressors MkII and many many Deluxos. My macro was running very good, 2 million $ every 90 seconds. 😂

I saw a good chance to fill my trash account with money again. The acc was slowly running out of dupes. 

 

 

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Spectre143
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Yes I would, so would many.

 

In that time I may have unlocked rare t-shirts, including this alien outfit from Solomon's collectibles. Others, especially newer players may have just unlocked loads like trade prices or allsorts of tattoos and other bits too, and some like heists may havd taken plenty of effort to find willing teammates/randons too. Plus daily objective streaks.

 

Why should all the legitimate players have to suffer any negative consequences because of those that didn't adhere to the warning they got when they first joined online and broke rules?

 

That would bring a mountain of negative press. And a couple of million wouldn't even half compensate me for what I'd have earned in that time either. I run daily casino heists, often twice. 2m is 2 days gaming, 3 at worst, lol.

 

Sod that!

 

All due respect to that, they shouldn't need to issue a statement considering every player that joined online had to accept the 'don't glitch/cheat' spashscreen. It's more on players to pay attention to what they do online to be sure of no wipes/resets I feel.

Don't get me wrong, I went by the assumption that a "small company" like TakeTwo/R* don't have the financial resources or employees to handle individual account rollbacks without f*cking up something in the process. Rolling back servers for everyone would get some bad PR for sure but it's more cost effective for the tech support.

 

The Division 2 devs put effort on doing individual rollbacks on the issue that I've mentioned at the cost of a dumpster fire.

 

Also regarding the "don't glitch/cheat splashscreen" it would be a fair argument if they handled all glitches/exploits with the same treatment.

 

A popular example would be doing Act 2 finales only over and over by manipulating cloud saves. That is technically a money glitch/exploit, but they never done an official statement about it.

 

41 minutes ago, SummerFreeze said:

But even if the rollback were only a few hours, the complaints would have been a hundred times bigger, and justifiably so, because why punish everyone over the actions of a few who should have known what they are doing isn't legit.

 

Wiping those found to have participated in the glitch through a script (which likely caused false positives) *is* the lazy approach.

Same as above quote. Lost count on how many times they already false banned/reset innocent player accounts due to lazy scripting that a full server rollback would have been safer and more cost effective.

Edited by Spectre143
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Midnight Ryder

There is only one solution, and Rockstar does not have the inclination to go through all that code.  Too many players, not worth the money to fix from the ground up.  So what is broke, stays broke.

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Lonely-Martin
Just now, Spectre143 said:

Don't get me wrong, I went by the assumption that a "small company" like TakeTwo/R* don't have the financial resources or employees to handle individual account rollbacks without f*cking up something in the process. Resetting everyone would get some bad PR for sure but it's more cost effective.

I think it would kill the company to be honest. Once players everywhere learn that while being legitimate the glitchers and cheats can cause everyone to lose progress, there is no game for legitimate players and certainly no one would buy cards knowing they are playing a game that allows the bad sports to kill their progress at any time.

 

3 minutes ago, Spectre143 said:

Also regarding the "don't glitch/cheat splashscreen" it would be a fair argument if they handled all glitches/exploits with the same treatment.

 

A popular example would be doing Act 2 finales only over and over by manipulating cloud saves. That is technically a money glitch/exploit, but they never done an official statement about it.

Totally agree. To see how R* punish some so harsh while accepting of much too is what really makes this all just laughable.

 

If they're gonna punish these things, they should punish all. God mode abuse too considering players technically have to play around randoms to sell businesses and risk losing progress anyway. How it's not seen as a fun and fair environment while god mode is out there is ridiculous too.

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Jenkiiii
Posted (edited)

GREED, that's the most appropriate word I can think of.

 

But before talking about greed, let's consider Rockstar's buggy code that allowed people to glitch in the first place. Now, I'm not a complete dimwit and I appreciate that if you find an illegal way of making money not originally programmed into the game, you should avoid it and maybe even report it, not exploit it, but it still doesn't excuse Rockstar for releasing code that's not fully bug tested and then getting majorly shirty at people who find glitches. Rockstar made a programming mistake, and their approach to that was to punish people at an overly extreme level. I mean, are Rockstar not partly complicit in all of this by publishing shoddy code in an official DLC? Which leads me back to the heading of GREED.

 

Do you think that Rockstar are that callous to punish gamers for exploiting their own coding mistakes? I think not; this is a purely corporate-driven tactic from T2 to smash cheaters on the rocks in an attempt to generate more shark card revenue, which also sends out a clear message to people who are thinking about cheating in the future.

 

But greed is a two-headed serpent that doesn't apply to T2 alone, but to gamers as well. For relatively new players, the temptation to glitch is understandable, but for experienced gamers, seven years into the game with literally hundreds of vehicles and dozens of properties and multiple totally legit ways of making in-game cash, including the experience to do so, it's a crazy thing to do. You're back to square one and now have to grind/glitch harder than ever before just to play with your friends and keep your chin up in public.

 

For many of us, enough is never enough.

 

Edited by Jenkiiii
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Spectre143
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

I think it would kill the company to be honest. Once players everywhere learn that while being legitimate the glitchers and cheats can cause everyone to lose progress, there is no game for legitimate players and certainly no one would buy cards knowing they are playing a game that allows the bad sports to kill their progress at any time.

That's when you use a server wide rollback (not a FULL RESET) on all legit players, assuming you can't do individual account rollbacks efficiently.

 

Keep in mind that the glitch/exploit was mostly active for two days (sunday and monday).

 

Why didn't they consider commiting to a two or three day rollback option + throwing some free GTA$ as compensation to grab free positive PR is beyond me...

Edited by Spectre143

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LaszloR1
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Spectre143 said:

That's when you use a server wide rollback (not a FULL RESET) on all legit players, assuming you can't do individual accounts rollbacks efficiently.

 

Keep in mind that the glitch/exploit was mostly active for two days (sunday and monday).

 

Why didn't they consider commiting to a two or three day rollback option + throwing some free GTA$ as compensation to grab free positive PR is beyond me...

From a development standpoint banning/resetting each player is not much easier/less resource intensive than rolling their progress back.

 

Edit: I also find it funny how none of the people (that I know of) that did the casino chip glitch didn't even get a slap on the wrist. And people got tens of millions (if not hundreds) with that too. This one seemed way too easy, they managed to track it down easily and made example out of you guys to make others not wanna do it, because they know they can't catch everyone.

Edited by LaszloR1
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NChabb
Posted (edited)

Is this the first time a mass character wipe is occuring on consoles?

 

I remember back in the days when the Lester glitch was a thing, people were arguing that glitching/exploiting on PC gave you stronger consequences (e.g. character wipe) given its hackable nature, whereas PS4 users usually only got at most a money wipe. Full character reset on console was not even a thing, or extremely rare. And as a matter of evidence that's what actually happened (afaik). People on PS4 got at most a money wipe as far as I could tell, for the Lester glitch that is.

 

I'm puzzled this glitch is what broke the camel's back. While extremely lucrative, it's no way easier than the Lester one.

Edited by NChabb

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Ghoffman9
1 hour ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Its not so cut and dry as you make it out to be. There are many questions that cannot be answered.

When was the glitch created?

When did it start seeing widespread use?

When did each individual player start using it?

What things did they purchase with the glitched money?

 

These are things none of us can answer, not even Rockstar.

 

Then there is the issue with the rollback. A rollback is an all or nothing action. Either they roll everyone back, or they roll no one back. Meaning players who played by the rules and never did the exploit get punished as well, and for something they never did. That to me would be a greater injustice. Punishing the innocent.

Another thing I will add that came to mind is complications with shark cards. What about those who spend money on shark cards within the allotted time frame and then suddenly lost it from the rollback? That is glaring issue. While I am no supporter of Shark Cards, I don't approve people spending money on them and then losing what they purchased.

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kenmy13999
44 minutes ago, Jenkiiii said:

GREED, that's the most appropriate word I can think of.

 

But before talking about greed, let's consider Rockstar's buggy code that allowed people to glitch in the first place. Now, I'm not a complete dimwit and I appreciate that if you find an illegal way of making money not originally programmed into the game, you should avoid it and maybe even report it, not exploit it, but it still doesn't excuse Rockstar for releasing code that's not fully bug tested and then getting majorly shirty at people who find glitches. Rockstar made a programming mistake, and their approach to that was to punish people at an overly extreme level. I mean, are Rockstar not partly complicit in all of this by publishing shoddy code in an official DLC? Which leads me back to the heading of GREED.

This glitch was basically programmed in to the game, getting lots of money for trading in an apartment. People didn't even have to try and make the game behave in a way it wasn't supposed to,  R* basically did it for them and that's what really makes this punishment out of place.. 

 

44 minutes ago, Jenkiiii said:

 

 

 

But greed is a two-headed serpent that doesn't apply to T2 alone, but to gamers as well. For relatively new players, the temptation to glitch is understandable, but for experienced gamers, seven years into the game with literally hundreds of vehicles and dozens of properties and multiple totally legit ways of making in-game cash, including the experience to do so, it's a crazy thing to do. You're back to square one and now have to grind/glitch harder than ever before just to play with your friends and keep your chin up in public.

 

For many of us, enough is never enough.

 

What about experienced players glitching 6 years in to the game (or whenever the Lester refund glitch was)? Wasn't that almost as crazy thing to do?  People already forgot they were all over that one.. 😊

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Pedinhuh
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SummerFreeze said:

But the Adder costs 1 million and while it is a model of a hypercar, it's arguably less useful than the Club because it was never viable for racing.

The Adder was ALWAYS viable for highway races all the up until the Cuning Stunts update, where it was dethroned by the 811.

In fact, it was the undisputed supercar king on those races...For all the other tracks it was sh*t but it's also worth to add that the Adder was actually a fair and balanced car, because the supercar class was balanced.

 

The Club is overpriced AND overpowered as hell, seriously, it's 4 seconds faster than the previous fastest compact car in the class, and that car didn't cost you an arm and a leg to purchase.

 

1 hour ago, SummerFreeze said:

How many contact missions did you have to play to earn 1 million on last gen? Nowadays the casino heist pays a lot of money (when done right) and isn't as grindy as doing crates, for example.

Fair point and I won't dispute that since I never enjoyed grinding contact missions, but if you're considering "Heists done right" here, then I'll mention that heists are present in this game since 2015.

 

One Pacific Standard heist and the host should have enough money(assuming a 70/10/10/10 cut) to buy ALL of the Compact cars and get the fastest one maxed out.

 

Nowadays, with doing a heist that PAYS MORE, you can buy ONE compact.

Edited by Pedinhuh
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Jenkiiii
2 minutes ago, kenmy13999 said:

What about experienced players glitching 6 years in to the game (or whenever the Lester refund glitch was)? Wasn't that almost as crazy thing to do?  People already forgot they were all over that one.. 😊

I don't know, buddy. Rockstar cocking up the code, T2 instructing them to make an example out of players who "violate" the EULA, and players getting too greedy for their own good.

 

Everyone's at fault, which why this is an interesting topic.

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Black-Dragon96
1 hour ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Its not so cut and dry as you make it out to be. There are many questions that cannot be answered.

When was the glitch created?

When did it start seeing widespread use?

When did each individual player start using it?

What things did they purchase with the glitched money?

 

These are things none of us can answer, not even Rockstar.

I can answer these things.

The glitch appeared with the recent update.

Everybody who did the glitch gets rolled back to that day (aka update release). All the problems you mentioned above solved. If they loose something they didnt glitch, well consider that additional punishment.

 

And as far as I'm aware they can do individual rollbacks.

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kenmy13999
6 minutes ago, Jenkiiii said:

I don't know, buddy. Rockstar cocking up the code, T2 instructing them to make an example out of players who "violate" the EULA, and players getting too greedy for their own good.

 

Everyone's at fault, which why this is an interesting topic.

You don't know, didn't you do the Lester refund glitch?

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Jenkiiii
1 minute ago, kenmy13999 said:

You don't know, didn't you do the Lester refund glitch?

It's a figurative way of speaking, not literal, mate. It means that I can't be bothered to flesh out my thoughts again because I'm in danger of repeating myself, but yes, I certainly know all about the Lester refund glitch. I did it, got caught, get reset by about 100 million, felt totally stupid when so many people put all their cash in 'bonds', but learned from it and stopped glitching. I haven't touched a glitch since well before last summer's Casino update, and have more money than I did before plus absolutely everything from the last three updates, which emphasizes, hopefully to others, that you don't need to glitch if you're determined and committed enough. Just be smart about the way you play. The only people who should consider cheating are those who have little to lose.

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SummerFreeze
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Pedinhuh said:

The Adder was ALWAYS viable for highway races all the up until the Import/Export update, where it was dethroned by the Nero.

In fact, it was the undisputed supercar king on those races...For all the other tracks it was sh*t.

 

It's also worth to add that the Adder was actually a fair and balanced car, because the supercar class was balanced.

 

The Club is overpriced AND overpowered as hell, seriously, it's 4 seconds faster than the previous fastest compact car in the class, and that car didn't cost you an arm and a leg to purchase.

 

Fair point and I won't dispute that since I never enjoyed grinding contact missions, but if you're considering "Heists done right" here, then I'll mention that heists are present in this game since 2015.

 

One Pacific Standard heist and the host should have enough money(assuming a 70/10/10/10 cut) to buy ALL of the Compact cars and get the fastest one maxed out.

 

Nowadays, with doing a heist that PAYS MORE, you can buy ONE compact.

I was thinking of actual races though, not driving down a highway.

 

If you're doing a fair share of the cut according to time investment, then two players can prepare two heists in roughly 90 minutes (30 mins solo preps, 2x30 mins two-player preps), and finish them in another 30-45 minutes, earning 2 million each / 4 million total in around 180 minutes. (Can be even better when doing minimum preps, elite challenges, other improvements.) This comes very close to what you can earn from x2 special cargo and is neither as dreadful nor has the same up-front investment cost.

 

The OG heists don't compare to what a dedicated two-person crew can earn from the casino heist.

Edited by SummerFreeze
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Deviant420
On 8/29/2020 at 10:40 AM, Jenkiiii said:

Hi, everyone.

 

I play on XB1 and haven't personally been affected by the character wipe over the last couple of days, but I run with a large crew and group of friends who have been severely affected. Also, I am struggling to find any dedicated threads about this, maybe because of the resonating shock wave. I appreciate that this is probably not big news on PC, but on console I haven't seen anything like this before.

 

A large proportion of my crew have been completely wiped of money, RP, vehicles, properties and everything, which has affected the dynamic of the crew enormously, mostly because this a creator crew that produces player-created tracks to improve the racing experience that Rockstar doesn't really give us through its R*-created tracks, which are often quite poor. This means that many crew members spend thousands of hours in creator and make no money while doing so, unlike players in freemode or lobby-based games that get passive income from bunkers and nightclubs. Many of these people put in a massive amount of effort in creating content for Rockstar for no reward, who then glitch to get enough cash to buy the necessary cars to race with and test on their tracks.

 

I am not justifying the property trade-in glitch and the people who took part in it, but I have mixed feelings about the severity of the wipe.

 

  • Firstly, I feel rather disgusted at Rockstar for not giving creators any income for producing so much content for them, which ultimately leads them to glitch to get extra cash. On the other hand, aggressive freemode players can grief all session and still reap the cash from their passive incomes. What are Rockstar thinking, brandishing everyone with the same iron? Do they not understand how much time and effort some people put into their creations and how much the rest of us enjoy them?
  • However, the people who abused the recent trade-in glitch have been warned in the past, as I was also warned after doing the Lester find a plane glitch last year. Everyone who was wiped received the same formal message alerting them that they had been caught and that it wouldn't be tolerated in the future, so there's no-one left to blame really besides themselves.

 

I therefore have mixed feelings as I know that people crossed the line and sufficient warning had been served in the past, but the severity of this wipe on good people who create great content for Rockstar is bordering on the obscene.

 

I would therefore like Rockstar to reconsider the severity of the wipe based on player commitment and content creation and to please have a look at individual player accounts and make a decision about whether a complete wipe was actually fair. There should be an appeal process available. As mentioned above, I have not been affected personally, so this is not about me but about others that have been treated extremely harshly. There are people who do deserve every wipe and ban that they receive, but there are also other people out there who are stalwart Rockstar fans and produce so much great content for them.

 

Please get back to me with your thoughts and experiences on this total wipe out. Cheers.

 

 

I I'm glad this happened to you and your friends. Absolutely no sympathy for cheaters like you. Go cry about it you poor sport. 

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Black-Dragon96
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Deviant420 said:

I I'm glad this happened to you and your friends. Absolutely no sympathy for cheaters like you. Go cry about it you poor sport. 

Joined 3 min ago.

giphy.webp

Edited by Black-Dragon96
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Lonely-Martin
10 minutes ago, SummerFreeze said:

I was thinking of actual races though, not driving down a highway.

 

If you're doing a fair share of the cut according to time investment, then two players can prepare two heists in roughly 90 minutes (30 mins solo preps, 2x30 mins two-player preps), and finish them in another 30-45 minutes, earning 2 million each / 4 million total in around 180 minutes. (Can be even better when doing minimum preps, elite challenges, other improvements.) This comes very close to what you can earn from x2 special cargo and is neither as dreadful nor has the same up-front investment cost.

 

The OG heists don't compare to what a dedicated two-person crew can earn from the casino heist.

It's an absolute blast, my lad is so well off now. Not many 15 year olds with almost 30m stashed after buying most all the toys and businesses he needs, basically a fully set up nightclub and I/E just in case.

 

Though I am cautious how expensive some things may be when the 'biggest update ever' comes this winter, and next gen's stuff too (if I do indulge in it fully - But that's another topic entirely).

3 minutes ago, Black-Dragon96 said:

Joined 3 min ago.

giphy.webp

Yeah, lol. There's always one. *sigh*

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Ghoffman9
10 minutes ago, Black-Dragon96 said:

I can answer these things.

The glitch appeared with the recent update.

Everybody who did the glitch gets rolled back to that day (aka update release). All the problems you mentioned above solved. If they loose something they didnt glitch, well consider that additional punishment.

 

And as far as I'm aware they can do individual rollbacks.

Its not that simple, we don't truly know how long that glitch existed, only when it was discovered. Glitches can go on for years without being discovered. Just check out the speed running community for the many games out there who use glitches that were not revealed until many years later. Decades even.

 

They can't roll back on an individual basis for every player to a specific point in time long ago, something extremely complicated and most likely not possible or feasible. That requires storing a ridiculous amount of data from millions of players spanning many months. What they can do is give or take things from players. Properties, vehicles, rank and so on that is a power they do possess.

 

Even games like World of Warcraft don't memorize the items you sell or disenchant going all the way back to the first day you log on. They give you about a two month span before an item is removed completely and cannot even be restored with item restoration. There are limits and Wow is a full fledged MMOPRG with dedicated servers. What do you think the capabilities of a game with peer to peer servers are?

 

In most online games straight up banishment is the most common practice for people who break the rules, so really this is par for the course for not just Gta but online gaming in general.

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kenmy13999
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Jenkiiii said:

It's a figurative way of speaking, not literal, mate. It means that I can't be bothered to flesh out my thoughts again because I'm in danger of repeating myself, but yes, I certainly know all about the Lester refund glitch. I did it, got caught, get reset by about 100 million, felt totally stupid when so many people put all their cash in 'bonds', but learned from it and stopped glitching. I haven't touched a glitch since well before last summer's Casino update, and have more money than I did before plus absolutely everything from the last three updates, which emphasizes, hopefully to others, that you don't need to glitch if you're determined and committed enough. Just be smart about the way you play. The only people who should consider cheating are those who have little to lose.

Sorry, I misinterpreted something and not sure what's going on with me today, I'm really not myself 🤔 

Edited by kenmy13999
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carnerd3000
37 minutes ago, Pedinhuh said:

The Club is overpriced AND overpowered as hell, seriously, it's 4 seconds faster than the previous fastest compact car in the class, and that car didn't cost you an arm and a leg to purchase.

Yeah, that car is easily one of the most overpriced vehicles in the game, but I'm sure they knew people would buy it, on account of its performance.

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