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Gutslab

III, VC, SA and IV were released in a span of 7 years

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Patrizio
On 8/22/2020 at 3:14 PM, Len Lfc said:

Yeah, it's different now, as it's been 7 years. They could announce it super early and say nothing for 2 or 3 years, and people would get mad they won't tell us more. Or they could wait to announce it and people would complain they haven't announced it yet. There's no winning.

You are right in the sense there’s no winning but I do agree with Renegade.

 

There’s the pre-accouncement drought and the post-accouncement drought. We would get mad with a drought post-announcement  but I do feel an announcement would cool things somewhat. Something is better then nothing. At least now we know that they tend to go silent for a year after announcement - at least we know that real drought (pre-announcement) is over. It can launch in 2022 or 23 but we need the hype to start. Even just a logo would keep us going for some time.

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Len Lfc
4 hours ago, Patrizio said:

Something is better then nothing.

Oh I agree. I guess I'm just coming from an 'experienced' perspective. Which of course you do too. Nothing wrong with having a different opinion, of course. I just think ultimately having an announcement followed by long term silence isn't much different than we have right now. We don't know GTA VI is in development 'officially'. But we do know it is, unofficially.

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Duke203

Rockstar have had c£100 off me in the past 10 years. Ubisoft, over a grand. Are Rockstar doing a better job than Ubisoft? No.

 

Are R*'s games better though? Yes, IMO they are. But I've had more fun with Ubisoft's simply because there have been more of them. R* are too hung up on making the perfect game, that they're actually making 'no' games instead (or as close to it as makes no difference, I wasn't a fan of RDR2).

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Patrizio
On 8/24/2020 at 4:26 PM, Len Lfc said:

Oh I agree. I guess I'm just coming from an 'experienced' perspective. Which of course you do too. Nothing wrong with having a different opinion, of course. I just think ultimately having an announcement followed by long term silence isn't much different than we have right now. We don't know GTA VI is in development 'officially'. But we do know it is, unofficially.

The thing is, both yourself and I have more or less worked out that Rockstar have between 1.5-2 year between announcement and release. You also made me release before that they generally have  a teaser trailer close to announcement these days (unlike with say, SA or IV where it was just a logo).  So, say it is announced this year, then that's 7 years we've been waiting. If we then wait another year before the next trailer comes and hype swings into action, its another year. And most of us on here know its coming. So to me, its very different from what we've had now. Especially if we got a trailer with announcement. I mean at this stage, a logo would break this site - that's how desparate we are. So I'll have to disagree with you here Len. 

 

Are there frustrated people now? Yes. Will people be continually frustrated with another drought? Yes, especially with how long its been. But fundamentally at least after announcement we know its on its way and know how Rockstar operate. 

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Len Lfc
15 minutes ago, Patrizio said:

The thing is, both yourself and I have more or less worked out that Rockstar have between 1.5-2 year between announcement and release. You also made me release before that they generally have  a teaser trailer close to announcement these days (unlike with say, SA or IV where it was just a logo).  So, say it is announced this year, then that's 7 years we've been waiting. If we then wait another year before the next trailer comes and hype swings into action, its another year. And most of us on here know its coming. So to me, its very different from what we've had now. Especially if we got a trailer with announcement. I mean at this stage, a logo would break this site - that's how desparate we are. So I'll have to disagree with you here Len. 

 

Are there frustrated people now? Yes. Will people be continually frustrated with another drought? Yes, especially with how long its been. But fundamentally at least after announcement we know its on its way and know how Rockstar operate. 

I do agree. And I should probably reiterate. It's not that I think there's no difference. Something is obviously better than nothing. At least we'll have a trailer to pour into and analyze every frame of. And I cannot wait for that. "This is where the fun begins". But rather that people will always find something to be mad about. Take RDR2 for example. That game was announced, and in early to mid 2018, every time Rockstar tweeted, the replies were just full of people asking for RDR2 info. At that point we'd had the announcement and two trailer, but people were mad because they were still tweeting about GTA Online Updates. We're seeing that now with GTA 6 replies. It's kind of human nature to always be looking for the next thing. Once the dust has settled from the announcement, people will want more. And if it's anything like the GTA V or RDR2 droughts, they're going to get mad again.

 

All I'm really saying, and this is mostly a personal opinion since we know it's coming, we just don't know when. Is that people think it's finally be better when they've finally officially announced it. And yeah, sure it will be. But people will just eventually find something else to get mad about. I can already see it happening, if they announce GTA VI, show a trailer and then begin tweeting about GTA V on PS5 or more Online updates, etc :D

 

"The grass is always greener"

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ChengizVlad09
Posted (edited)
On 8/26/2020 at 1:56 PM, Duke203 said:

Rockstar have had c£100 off me in the past 10 years. Ubisoft, over a grand. Are Rockstar doing a better job than Ubisoft? No.

 

Are R*'s games better though? Yes, IMO they are. But I've had more fun with Ubisoft's simply because there have been more of them. R* are too hung up on making the perfect game, that they're actually making 'no' games instead (or as close to it as makes no difference, I wasn't a fan of RDR2).

Have to steer a bit off topic and of course please note, that this isn't anything personal, it's just the wondering of mine.

 

I guess, it's a thing of perception or a thing of perspective. A subjective thing. Way too many conclusions we deduct from our " general feel " of the thing. Not to mention, blindly having a strong affection, attraction toward something. As a huge Grand Theft Auto enthusiast and Rockstar Games admirer I can only find just a couple of things being better in their games, compared to the same Ubisoft, for which I have no particular feelings of affection whatsoever. None. I played just one of their games, AC: Odyssey and right of the bat, the fighting mechanics was way more immersive, fun and engaging compared to shooting mechanics of RDR2 or GTA V (at least on the hardest difficulty). Objectively speaking, for the mere hour of so of playing, not only I couldn't find anything that's so much better in RDR2 - e.g. - I even thought AC is probably better. For the comparison sake, I think I have roughly 50 hrs put in RDR2. 100 tops, stretching it.

 

Subjectively, I can't fathom why people think Rockstar is making masterpieces in these last 10 years or so? How is RDR2 perfect for example? Along with GTA V, they are way closer to being broken games, which RDR2 definitely is, judging by its systems, mechanics, AI and gameplay modes. We aren't talking about some negligible things here, just take the " Wanted " system for example. It's a mess, at best. It doesn't work. How in god's name is that being "perfect" or how exactly does it contribute to the general conclusion of being a masterpiece game? Does anyone even play it anymore? Even its online portion isn't that popular, judging from the reports, but that's another story. Personally, once I beat that game, and knew what the story is all about, I tried to give it another go. I simply couldn't. It was not only painfully boring, grindy as well as repetitive but simply unbelievable how broken it is.

 

Where does the " perfection ", " masterpiece " part shows itself in? In what exact portion of the game we find that? Because they implied so? Because it take years to be released? Is it the beautiful graphics? A sad, serious story-telling and narrative? I have no doubts that it just might be the beautiful graphics along with excellent narrative and story-telling, but how in the hell everyone tend to lower their criteria so much all of a sudden when it comes to the gameplay, easily the major part of video games? The very reason why we are playing it in the first place, the motion behind it all. The gameplay they are making is the best case scenario, a complete opposite of perfection.

 

 

Edited by ChengizVlad09
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Geisterfaust
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, ChengizVlad09 said:

Where does the " perfection ", " masterpiece " part shows itself in?

In RDR 2 it's the animations. Different animations on how your character is opening different drawers. I've played RDR 2 and I've dropped it around 80% of the story or so: it's not the game worth waiting 10 years by all means. I think there is no such game at all. Speaking of Ubisoft, I don't really like their games, but... Gameplay-wise AC Odyssey/ Origins were quite decent. They lack narrative, but they are more than playable.

 

Your observations on the AC are spot on: I don't like the period but fighting is engaging while shooting in RDR 2 is primitive. There is no recoil at all plus the more I've played the more I felt like it is the game from 2010 shooting-wise. Like Nakey Jakey have once said, R* game design is outdated.

Edited by Geisterfaust
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ChengizVlad09
Posted (edited)

@Geisterfaust I swear to god, I was so disappointed by that game I started looking for even a single, honest review on Youtube. Not only no one was objective so to speak, but it seemed everyone was simply neglecting the gameplay aspect or sugar-coating it to the max. Than I stumbled upon Nakey Jakey. I had even figured I watched his GTA V review prior to that. One of the best, if not the best review of the RDR2 out there, hands down. Just to stay in touch with the topic and in fewer words, I just can't understand what is so perfect, so polished, so masterpiece alike about V or RDR2 and why in the hell they are taking so long to make such average games in the sense of gameplay - other than their clear business model? I mean, if they are "polishing" the narrative and graphics side of things all that time, it's fine, 'cause in that case both of those games could easily be " Uncharted " or " The Last of Us " alike experiences with 'closed worlds', where the open world and the amazing open world free-roam gameplay is definitely redundant and unnecessary.

Edited by ChengizVlad09
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3Peat
On 8/27/2020 at 6:24 PM, ChengizVlad09 said:

@Geisterfaust I swear to god, I was so disappointed by that game I started looking for even a single, honest review on Youtube. Not only no one was objective so to speak, but it seemed everyone was simply neglecting the gameplay aspect or sugar-coating it to the max. Than I stumbled upon Nakey Jakey. I had even figured I watched his GTA V review prior to that. One of the best, if not the best review of the RDR2 out there, hands down. Just to stay in touch with the topic and in fewer words, I just can't understand what is so perfect, so polished, so masterpiece alike about V or RDR2 and why in the hell they are taking so long to make such average games in the sense of gameplay - other than their clear business model? I mean, if they are "polishing" the narrative and graphics side of things all that time, it's fine, 'cause in that case both of those games could easily be " Uncharted " or " The Last of Us " alike experiences with 'closed worlds', where the open world and the amazing open world free-roam gameplay is definitely redundant and unnecessary.

R* is a bit of an industry sweetheart so no one really dares speak of the more lackluster side of gameplay in their games. They are more so applauded for how ambitious they have always been in creating open-worlds and compelling narratives (well, since IV really) like you said, so no one really tries to speak ill of them. Who wants to down one of the only studios still making truly open-world games? Fans have psyched themselves up into a froth thinking they make masterpieces or anything even close to it. How quick they forget about how they trashed IV’s mechanics, or how they trashed V’s mechanics and replayability.

 

IV is one of my favorite games of all time and it’s not because of the gameplay, it’s literally everything else besides the gameplay 

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Duke203
On 8/27/2020 at 3:15 PM, ChengizVlad09 said:

Have to steer a bit off topic and of course please note, that this isn't anything personal, it's just the wondering of mine.

 

I guess, it's a thing of perception or a thing of perspective. A subjective thing. Way too many conclusions we deduct from our " general feel " of the thing. Not to mention, blindly having a strong affection, attraction toward something. As a huge Grand Theft Auto enthusiast and Rockstar Games admirer I can only find just a couple of things being better in their games, compared to the same Ubisoft, for which I have no particular feelings of affection whatsoever. None. I played just one of their games, AC: Odyssey and right of the bat, the fighting mechanics was way more immersive, fun and engaging compared to shooting mechanics of RDR2 or GTA V (at least on the hardest difficulty). Objectively speaking, for the mere hour of so of playing, not only I couldn't find anything that's so much better in RDR2 - e.g. - I even thought AC is probably better. For the comparison sake, I think I have roughly 50 hrs put in RDR2. 100 tops, stretching it.

 

Subjectively, I can't fathom why people think Rockstar is making masterpieces in these last 10 years or so? How is RDR2 perfect for example? Along with GTA V, they are way closer to being broken games, which RDR2 definitely is, judging by its systems, mechanics, AI and gameplay modes. We aren't talking about some negligible things here, just take the " Wanted " system for example. It's a mess, at best. It doesn't work. How in god's name is that being "perfect" or how exactly does it contribute to the general conclusion of being a masterpiece game? Does anyone even play it anymore? Even its online portion isn't that popular, judging from the reports, but that's another story. Personally, once I beat that game, and knew what the story is all about, I tried to give it another go. I simply couldn't. It was not only painfully boring, grindy as well as repetitive but simply unbelievable how broken it is.

 

Where does the " perfection ", " masterpiece " part shows itself in? In what exact portion of the game we find that? Because they implied so? Because it take years to be released? Is it the beautiful graphics? A sad, serious story-telling and narrative? I have no doubts that it just might be the beautiful graphics along with excellent narrative and story-telling, but how in the hell everyone tend to lower their criteria so much all of a sudden when it comes to the gameplay, easily the major part of video games? The very reason why we are playing it in the first place, the motion behind it all. The gameplay they are making is the best case scenario, a complete opposite of perfection.

 

 

Good points here, but my point wasn't that R* games are perfect, just that they are trying to be perfect which then leads them into not releasing anything. Individually (completely IMHO) I'd say GTA5 and RDR are better than any individual Ubisoft game (Far Cry 3 was very good and fun, as was ACII, and may beat RDR to 2nd or even 3rd place). I don't care for online either and there were certain things that were a bit rubbish in all of them (that goes for all games though).

 

R*'s games feel as though they have more depth, more effort put into them, and I have sunk a lot more hours into them than most (and so for me, that means they are more fun). Ubisoft put in the numbers  and ultimately I'd rather play 3 good games than 1 'perfect' one.

 

As for graphics vs story vs gameplay. They all have their place, but different places depending on the game (Gran Turismo 5 as a specific example. That's a 300+ hour game for me but it has no story).

 

I don't think R* have made masterpieces (GTA5 was very close. I am a big fan and didn't notice anything too rubbish about the gameplay), but they were good enough for me to think "I need to play this game, it looks really good" before buying it. In my opinion after playing them, I was right.

 

But in comparison, Ubisoft have made 15 or so games that I have really enjoyed too so in total they win at 'fun'.

 

Edit. In summary, R* need to release more games but with a lot less 'polishing' which as you have mentioned all that polishing doesn't necessarily cover everything.

 

Edited by Duke203
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KingAJ032304
On 9/1/2020 at 10:28 AM, Duke203 said:

Good points here, but my point wasn't that R* games are perfect, just that they are trying to be perfect which then leads them into not releasing anything. Individually (completely IMHO) I'd say GTA5 and RDR are better than any individual Ubisoft game (Far Cry 3 was very good and fun, as was ACII, and may beat RDR to 2nd or even 3rd place). I don't care for online either and there were certain things that were a bit rubbish in all of them (that goes for all games though).

 

R*'s games feel as though they have more depth, more effort put into them, and I have sunk a lot more hours into them than most (and so for me, that means they are more fun). Ubisoft put in the numbers  and ultimately I'd rather play 3 good games than 1 'perfect' one.

 

As for graphics vs story vs gameplay. They all have their place, but different places depending on the game (Gran Turismo 5 as a specific example. That's a 300+ hour game for me but it has no story).

 

I don't think R* have made masterpieces (GTA5 was very close. I am a big fan and didn't notice anything too rubbish about the gameplay), but they were good enough for me to think "I need to play this game, it looks really good" before buying it. In my opinion after playing them, I was right.

 

But in comparison, Ubisoft have made 15 or so games that I have really enjoyed too so in total they win at 'fun'.

 

Edit. In summary, R* need to release more games but with a lot less 'polishing' which as you have mentioned all that polishing doesn't necessarily cover everything.

 

Eh I believe this  is only because you haven't really played THE GAME. You know that one game you can always play and never get bored of. Once you play it, it's REALLY HARD to go back sometimes.

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José_Sócrates

I am just here to say that, since the game will likely get released between 2022-2023, it's absolutely not worth it to wait for GTA VI for 9/10 years. It's just not worth it and I don't see how any GTA title, not matter how awesome it is, can justify a wait of nearly a decade.

 

I know that Rockstar was developing Red Dead Redemption 2, but I also know that they have the resources, and money, especially after GTA V and Online, to develop two big games at the same time without having to sacrifice the quality of any of the two, while also having the ability to work on one or two small games in between. If anything, they could at least work on single player DLCs/expansions for GTA V, something they clearly didn't do and showed absolutely no intention of doing after Online blew up.

 

Finally, to all of you saying that nowadays games take longer to develop, that's a bullsh*t argument. This is GTA we're talking about, not rocket science. It's a game with a set formula and widely used gameplay mechanics. It already has an engine and assets that can be worked on. It's not like it's the new groundbreaking game of the decade that will change the industry. Even if they were planning to make the best and most revolutionary GTA to this date, I don't see how it could take more than 5 years, maybe (and a really big maybe) 6 years. The only thing that would slow down the development would be if they decided to focus on the graphics, and with the exception of GTA IV and RDR 2, Rockstar is not known for making graphically impressive games.

 

We all know the reason it's been 7 years and we still have no announcement of GTA VI. It's because of GTA Online. It's a well of money, and as soon as GTA VI is released, the well will start to dry up. This is also the reason we never had single player DLC. It's likely also the reason Rockstar is losing reputation and starting to fall apart as the original members of the team leave one by one. It's just obvious.

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3Peat
2 hours ago, José_Sócrates said:

I am just here to say that, since the game will likely get released between 2022-2023, it's absolutely not worth it to wait for GTA VI for 9/10 years. It's just not worth it and I don't see how any GTA title, not matter how awesome it is, can justify a wait of nearly a decade.

 

I know that Rockstar was developing Red Dead Redemption 2, but I also know that they have the resources, and money, especially after GTA V and Online, to develop two big games at the same time without having to sacrifice the quality of any of the two, while also having the ability to work on one or two small games in between. If anything, they could at least work on single player DLCs/expansions for GTA V, something they clearly didn't do and showed absolutely no intention of doing after Online blew up.

 

Finally, to all of you saying that nowadays games take longer to develop, that's a bullsh*t argument. This is GTA we're talking about, not rocket science. It's a game with a set formula and widely used gameplay mechanics. It already has an engine and assets that can be worked on. It's not like it's the new groundbreaking game of the decade that will change the industry. Even if they were planning to make the best and most revolutionary GTA to this date, I don't see how it could take more than 5 years, maybe (and a really big maybe) 6 years. The only thing that would slow down the development would be if they decided to focus on the graphics, and with the exception of GTA IV and RDR 2, Rockstar is not known for making graphically impressive games.

 

We all know the reason it's been 7 years and we still have no announcement of GTA VI. It's because of GTA Online. It's a well of money, and as soon as GTA VI is released, the well will start to dry up. This is also the reason we never had single player DLC. It's likely also the reason Rockstar is losing reputation and starting to fall apart as the original members of the team leave one by one. It's just obvious.

Exactly. Take Two wants that Fornite money. Don’t be surprised if you see dances in the next version of GTA online 

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KingAJ032304
6 hours ago, José_Sócrates said:

The only thing that would slow down the development would be if they decided to focus on the graphics, and with the exception of GTA IV and RDR 2, Rockstar is not known for making graphically impressive games.

Your forgetting that last gen GTA V was limited by last gen hardware. Rockstar are one of the best manager's for memory and storage in the business. If it was any average game developer, GTA V would be 1.5x-2.25x the size it should be.

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