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Willman249

What ruined online for you?

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Commander S
2 hours ago, Geisterfaust said:

I thought about it a bit more and the actual reason is that the game is still around. GTAO was never good, let's be honest and not pretend that it happened. It was new, it was unique for some time. But right now limitations are too restrictive: 7 years old map, 120 mph top speed cars, braindead AI and extremely outdated mission design. After all, we are playing the game that was in development from 2008 and so, in 2020. In the era where 2080 Ti is almost 2 years old, this game is entering classics territory. Don't let 4k resolution fool you, this is Xbox 360/ PS3 game and the last thing it deserves is to be put on more modern engine. There's literally no reason for that at all. Remastered original Mafia? I'm all in for that, because the thing is nearly 20 years old and out of circulation for good 15 years. This thing? No way.

 

 

...that's basically it, isn't it? It's a mixture of 'game is fundamentally a last-gen game', and 'the folks who've been in the driving seat since 2014/current-gen (or whenever Benzies got the boot) have just been bolting stuff on to it' - so where the original idea might have been a potentially evolutionary shift in GTA/open-world design, pretty much everything after R* ticked all the boxes on the original roadmap (up to and including Heists) feels like "what new stuff can we add to keep people coming back (and spending money)?"

 

There's no game plan, no long-term strategy - GTAO has been a giant repository for 'moar Content™!' for most of the time it's been going, and it gets away with so much because it got built on top of a game (GTA V) that was already 'not great at any one thing - but it's satisfying enough because it has a bit of most things people like, and does them competently enough'. And again, RDO lays that bare, by taking a more niche, limiting genre (and none of GTAO's original ambitions), and doing the exact same thing (take solid enough open-world map design and mechanics, and keep shoving more Stuff™ in) - and it's just such an empty, directionless experience as a result.

 

 

I still like to think that some company will attempt their own take on GTAO one day, and actually go for that "living online world" experience, where it feels like a genuine virtual ecosystem, and not just treating a R* open-world map like an anarchic theme park crossed with an increasingly-expensive shop, but I certainly don't see it coming from R* at this rate - because they're quite content to be stuck in this unambitious (but highly lucrative!) rut.

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YELLOW ZOOMER WITH DRONE
55 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

As much as it pains me to say it, I think if you're running businesses in public free roam and getting nuked, the fault lies more with you than the person who blew you up. You could choose not to play a game you know encourages this sh*t, but you do it anyway. Accept some responsibility. The game has been this way for years and you should know better by now.

I mean, someone who's been playing the game long enough and still sells in regular lobbies is asking for being griefed, I agree with that, but what about let's say, a new player who bought the game with the awful Starter Pack and barely knows how the game really works?

 

It doesn't help either that when a new player gets griefed and talks about it, he only gets condescending responses about how he deserve it because he didn't used a solo public session or whatever, which only makes said player to say "f*ck this" and either buy Shark Cards (making R* double down on said game design philosophy), turn to glitching or modding (and either getting bored out of the game because the grind is the game or becoming a griefer, repeating the vicious circle on others) or outright stopping playing the game altogether.

 

Sure, that new player could have just looked for any of the way too many guides here, on Reddit, YouTube, whatever, but should be expect every single new player to become overwhelmed with such a large ammount of information for a game that's supposed to be casual as f*ck? The game being full of confusing or even contradictory rules and mechanics doesn't help either.

 

So yeah, while I agree that players should have more responsability, you can't put that burden on someone who just doesn't know any better.

 

1 hour ago, Nutduster said:

Of course, the ultimate responsibility lies at the feet of the developers who made it this way in the first place.

36d543d72f4e189a37a2d8de1d98f481.jpg

 

Glad to have you back on the forums man btw.

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Nutduster
6 minutes ago, YELLOW ZOOMER WITH DRONE said:

I mean, someone who's been playing the game long enough and still sells in regular lobbies is asking for being griefed, I agree with that, but what about let's say, a new player who bought the game with the awful Starter Pack and barely knows how the game really works?

 

 

Fair enough. But it's not like it takes long to figure it out. My hope is just that these new guys aren't spending much on Shark cards before they learn the real deal. I really loathe the design of it that makes things so frustrating on purpose to push you to spend money to fix (or at least mitigate) the problems. Only thing I can hope for is that the majority of players at least have enough information to know that they're being manipulated.

 

The fact that they built a game where griefing is the (or at least, a) primary gameplay mechanic is obnoxious enough. But the fact that they make money off of player frustration specifically is really where I start getting pissed.

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ChiroVette
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

 

Fair enough. But it's not like it takes long to figure it out. My hope is just that these new guys aren't spending much on Shark cards before they learn the real deal. I really loathe the design of it that makes things so frustrating on purpose to push you to spend money to fix (or at least mitigate) the problems. Only thing I can hope for is that the majority of players at least have enough information to know that they're being manipulated.

 

The fact that they built a game where griefing is the (or at least, a) primary gameplay mechanic is obnoxious enough. But the fact that they make money off of player frustration specifically is really where I start getting pissed.

 

I want to respond to a lot of comments on the past two pages later, but for now this caught my eye. It isn't only about how long it takes to figure it out. Even being very new to GTAO, I realized this in a hurry. But it did take a few times, culminating in frustration, to realize that selling goods the only way the game allows you to was not feasible. I initially thought, "Oh well, I guess all that money I spent on businesses, upgrades, arcades, and bunkers was for nothing! What a waste of my time and in-game money, sh*t!" Then I forget how, but I discovered public solo lobbies, and the game became playable again. Well, at least that part of the game that I thought wasn't. Not everyone knows about solo rooms. Moreover, not everyone wants to go that route. Because to some, me included, it feels a whole lot like cheating, and many gamers don't use cheats. I do use solo lobbies, so I am not being hypocritical, just pointing out that probably a lot of frustrated people would still refuse to use this tactic on the grounds that they don't cheat.

 

As to your last point, there are actually think-tanks and researchers who have been studying the freemium business model for several years now, and the part I made bold is one of the most powerful tools that freemium devs have in their arsenal to stimulate IAP sales. Though with consoles and PCs, the term they use is microtransactions. But make no mistake about it, this tactic is incredibly effective. The biggest victims, as you probably already know, are referred to in an affectionately condescending term. They call them whales. This actually comes from Vegas, and is precisely the same thing in casinos as it is in these freemium games. And, yes, for the purposes of at least this discussion, the way they administer GTAO is essentially the same as the corrupt freemium business model.

 

For the record, I have never quite understood this. To me, the way I think...the way my mind works, if you put a gun to my head 5 years ago, I would have said that this strategy was ludicrous and absurd, to the point of being a little insane. But I would have been wrong. It seems so counterintuitive to have such a business model that relies on frustration, and an almost Machiavellian control over the game environment, to subordinate fun and enjoyment to corporate thuggery. Yet, there it is, working as well for Take2 as it has been for freemium games on mobile devices for almost a decade.

 

I would have never expected Rockstar and Take2 to go down this road. Then again, I would have never predicted that a business model like this, that is literally corrupt through and through, would not only flourish, but become the most lucrative aspect of the gaming business in gaming history. And I assure you, it it hasn't already happened, this is irrevocably where its headed. As a gamer, this truly scares the sh*t out of me. I guess the days of the little geniuses, on the spectrum, toiling away in their garages to come up with the next briliant gaming concept are long since behind us. If you'll permit me a little more pontificating, the reason why groundbreaking games in the past were so...well, groundbreaking, is because to sell a game, hopefully at full retail, the game has to be the ultimate culmination of the vision of the developers. It has to be both complete and have longevity right out of the box. But that isn't really true anymore. Because the retail sale of the game is now only the very tip of the financial windfall iceberg. So now, instead of giving the players their best work, like the days of old with the creative, brilliant, teenage kid with a ponytail wanting to give the gamer the very best, they are forced by their corporate masters to hold back. Instead of leaving it all out there on the field, they subordinate the fun of the game to their freemium bottom line. Sure, game developing and publishing was still a business back then. But now the business model is about fooling people, manipulating then into spending more and more. The only way this can happen is literally by reducing the quality of the game just enough to make people impatient enough to break out the credit cards.

Edited by ChiroVette
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Lonely-Martin

This new chap is on fire, lol. Great posts @ChiroVette. 👍

 

And welcome back @Nutduster. I trust all is well in this crazy year?

 

For me, I just refuse all those businesses and enjoy the on call/friends side to the game and heists along with stupid fun in races or the like keep me going. I can enjoy a solo invite session quite well and it's once they go from the franchise, as pointed out by ChiroVette regarding that dread of where it all goes, those lobby choices are surely a sitting duck, lol. That's my exit sign, and why RDRO just can't do it for me. As beautiful that world is, it's too limited and kills my game too much to a point, I came running back to this one, lol.

 

A GTA/RDR with lessening freedom is just a huge turn off and I can't foresee it change back. But I wear my freeloader badge with pride though, ha ha. :)

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Nutduster
41 minutes ago, ChiroVette said:

 

I would have never expected Rockstar and Take2 to go down this road. Then again, I would have never predicted that a business model like this, that is literally corrupt through and through, would not only flourish, but become the most lucrative aspect of the gaming business in gaming history. And I assure you, it it hasn't already happened, this is irrevocably where its headed. As a gamer, this truly scares the sh*t out of me. I guess the days of the little geniuses, on the spectrum, toiling away in their garages to come up with the next briliant gaming concept are long since behind us.

 

These people still exist, and periodically someone releases a genuinely cool indie game based on those efforts. But if you play mainly triple-A titles, then yes, those days are gone. Big games follow the money, just like big blockbuster movies. We get three to five new comic book movies per year because the model works; they are all pretty similar to each other for the same reason. Of course, the comic book takeover of Hollywood is pretty innocuous compared to the freemium gaming model. But the concept is basically the same. Too much money is at stake--too much initial investment to gamble on outcome. They want assured profits, and ideally, they want assured YEARS OF profits, not just one big windfall. (GTA V, of course, got both. Lucky us.)

 

Personally... I love triple-A games that are well done. I like amazing graphics and vast open worlds and all the stuff that you can really only make with an investment of many millions of dollars, and many years of many developers tooling away. But I also acknowledge that my support of games of this type is part of the problem. The more we throw our financial support behind them, and not behind small, maverick studios making games that are more innovative but also far more modest and limited in scope, the more this will be the direction of the entire industry.

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HamwithCheese
7 hours ago, Geisterfaust said:

is that the game is still around. GTAO was never good, let's be honest and not pretend that it happened. It was new, it was unique for some time.

It's still unique to this day. It's why we're still playing it, it's why it still makes a bazillion dollars.

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Sentinel Driver

No f*cking updates and no f*cking communication from R* of any kind

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Big Molio
3 hours ago, Nutduster said:

 

These people still exist, and periodically someone releases a genuinely cool indie game based on those efforts.

Playdead Studios - LIMBO and INSIDE

 

INSIDE is my favourite game of all time. That game is a work of art.

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Nutduster
1 hour ago, Big Molio said:

Playdead Studios - LIMBO and INSIDE

 

INSIDE is my favourite game of all time. That game is a work of art.

 

Those are both terrific. I also really loved Journey and Firewatch (the first one I think is genuinely innovative; the other is just a walking sim with a cool story, like reading a well-done short book). I'm sure there have been others, I don't keep up with games too much anymore. But yeah, there are options out there, if you look for stuff that isn't made by Rockstar, Ubisoft, EA, etc.

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Willman249
4 hours ago, Nutduster said:

 

These people still exist, and periodically someone releases a genuinely cool indie game based on those efforts. But if you play mainly triple-A titles, then yes, those days are gone. Big games follow the money, just like big blockbuster movies. We get three to five new comic book movies per year because the model works; they are all pretty similar to each other for the same reason. Of course, the comic book takeover of Hollywood is pretty innocuous compared to the freemium gaming model. But the concept is basically the same. Too much money is at stake--too much initial investment to gamble on outcome. They want assured profits, and ideally, they want assured YEARS OF profits, not just one big windfall. (GTA V, of course, got both. Lucky us.)

 

Personally... I love triple-A games that are well done. I like amazing graphics and vast open worlds and all the stuff that you can really only make with an investment of many millions of dollars, and many years of many developers tooling away. But I also acknowledge that my support of games of this type is part of the problem. The more we throw our financial support behind them, and not behind small, maverick studios making games that are more innovative but also far more modest and limited in scope, the more this will be the direction of the entire industry.

 

The problem started when the video game publishers went public on the NYSE, if they focused on art and great big story-line titles, they wouldn't be as profitable and shareholders would be forced out by executives putting someone in who was mainly focused on profit margins and revenues.  Every publisher has jumped on board with this money grubbing tactics, I always admired Rockstar until 2014 because they seemed like they were deliberately wanting to avoid going down this road.  Although, we should've seen the NBA 2k series in every game after 2k13 as a warning sign, with each new game in the NBA 2k series becoming less content filled, more cash grabbing, more casino-like, etc.  I bet Leslie Benzies and Dan Houser left got they got so fed up with Take-Two forcing them to focus on making GTAOnline a cash register and devoting their resources to it, when they wanted to expand their resources to focus on more games and ideas.  The decline of Rockstar isn't really Rockstar's fault, more of Take-Two and Strauss Zelnick.  I personally love open world games, and while they were so abundant in the 6th and 7th generations, they seem to become much more absent in the current generation outside of Activision.  The problem is that the open world games from Rockstar we love with the level of graphics, detail and dialogue of games like RDR2 and GTA5 take YEARS of development time, 1,000+ employees, and at least $100,000,000+ to make, but when Rockstar made GTA V and released it, they made it all back almost overnight.  I don't understand why they didn't expand their operations and build up more resources after that success using the money from it to make more great titles.  I know why, profit margins and Take-Two.  

 

You know it's funny Hollywood is pretty much run by executives who turned creativity and originality into four letter words within the Hollywood system, Martin Scorsese had his Irishman movie idea rejected a week after they gave a Lego Star Wars movie a $70-million budget and was forced to go to Netflix.  I feel like Tarantino and Nolan are the only true directors in Hollywood who're allowed to make movies, while everyone else is forced to do whatever projects they're offered, and the ones with the most flashiest, quickest edited, obnoxious camera methods are given the biggest projects.  Everything has to be made for mass appeal, mass consumption, anything with any kind of message or intelligence is too controversial, anything with any kind of strong character development is too dramatic.  Electronic Arts and Activision created a sh*tty culture within the triple-A industry that eventually reached Rockstar once the old guard of Benzies and Dan Houser were forced to leave mostly out of frustration on their own accord.  Remember the guy who created Plants and Zombies, he was fired by EA because he didn't want to make his game pay-to-win.  Their handling of the Star Wars label until 2018 was a clear indicator in the direction the top-tier of the industry is heading.  

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Killer Whale
Posted (edited)

Heist griefers. Those who let you see you're getting a good cut and then tricking you by turning the cut into default.

 

They're waiting for the Heist Board timer to run to zero, so that way it'll return to the default cut. If you see the host or any other player is taking too long to accept past the Heist Board, QUIT!

 

Also those players who don't know how to play properly and mess up the heist, especially when they do it by rushing.

 

I have no problem with the jet/chopper/Mk.II griefers. I'm glad Passive Mode is a thing.

Edited by Killer Whale
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ArthurMorganRDR

The kids with their flying motorcycles shooting at you everytime you do a mission

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BOOGIEMAN219

People who think exploits are part of the game even though it's obviously unintended, especially those who use exploits in pvp. Using exploits doesn't make you a good player it makes you a cheater period.

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SummerFreeze
12 hours ago, Killer Whale said:

Heist griefers. Those who let you see you're getting a good cut and then tricking you by turning the cut into default.

 

They're waiting for the Heist Board timer to run to zero, so that way it'll return to the default cut. If you see the host or any other player is taking too long to accept past the Heist Board, QUIT!

 

Also those players who don't know how to play properly and mess up the heist, especially when they do it by rushing.

 

I have no problem with the jet/chopper/Mk.II griefers. I'm glad Passive Mode is a thing.

Yeah, that's one of the worst "patches" of a glitch I can think of.

 

For those who don't know, before the patch the host could assign 85% of the cut to others player(s), then let the timer run out, so both him and the other player(s) would receive 85% of the cut.

 

Rockstar "patched" this by simply reverting to the default cuts (85% host) if the timer runs out.

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BoDarville

 

1. Modders - it's really hard to find a lobby without one. From making it snow to making you explode continuously, they're a cancer.

 

2. Silly vehicles/weapons - this is a personal thing, but I really hate all the flying, missile launching, laser firing, submersible, jumping, rocket vehicles in the game now. 

 

3. The online community - sorry to say this, but this game has one of the most toxic communities I've ever encountered. Perhaps it's the (seeming) lack of consequences for anything from anti-social behavior right up to full on cheating, but most lobbies are full of a-holes like flies crawling on sh*t.  :(

 

 

 

 

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Razor Cola

Life lol I don't have much time to play now that my children are older 

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DJ-Jelly-Doughnut
1 hour ago, BoDarville said:

2. Silly vehicles/weapons - this is a personal thing, but I really hate all the flying, missile launching, laser firing, submersible, jumping, rocket vehicles in the game now. 

Agreed. It's funny and over the top at times.. but others it's annoying. From one aspect it can look like a gritty crime game.. then a guy flies by shooting lasers at another guy in a McLaren..

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Spectre "2K"

to add to the meme vehicle talk, they aren't even fun to use. Okay, maybe the oppressor mk. I and the scramjet, but even then i'd argue the latter is too frustrating to really do anything with. The deluxo and oppressor mk2 are so f*cking boring to pilot and their missiles almost never miss so there's no skill in aiming or any sort of tension whatsoever when in combat. The stromberg is super slow for what used to be a "sports" car and its gimmick has literally no value outside of messing around. The Ruiner 2K and it's mission can be useful at times, but at it's buy-in you're better off just using a nightshark or a stromberg. And if it's raining, forget it. That thing isn't driving for a solid 3 seconds before it gains traction. (keyboard player, so no analog acceleration for me)

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Mexicola9302

Nothing ruined online for me, i always played in a private lobby with friends anyway, the problem is the lack of content, so there is just no reason for me to play the game anymore.

 

If you already own every car, helicopter, plane, jet, jetpack and all businesses the most expensive ones btw, what else there is to do, except useless money grinding? Absolutely nothing, if there is no content i don't see the point in playing a game.

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Nutduster
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Spectre "2K" said:

to add to the meme vehicle talk, they aren't even fun to use. Okay, maybe the oppressor mk. I and the scramjet, but even then i'd argue the latter is too frustrating to really do anything with.

 

I enjoy the Scramjet just for goof-off value. And kind of like the Stromberg but only because it's a capable antidote to the annoyance of the broomsticks.

 

Generally though, I think these things are the single biggest problem with the game. It had issues from launch, some of which got better and some unfortunately got a lot worse. But the meme vehicles, especially the Mk II, are on a different level. I was in a lobby today and there were five guys on them non-stop. They weren't even together--when they ran into each other, they'd fight. But the rest of the time they were all flying around blasting anyone who crossed paths with them.  I had two different guys kill me in 1) a Frogger, as I flew away from him, clearly trying not to die; and 2) a car I had just jacked off the street. And to reiterate an earlier point, I'm under level 30.

 

The game is full enough of douchebags. I wish Rockstar had not enabled them quite so much. They should have to work at least SLIGHTLY for their kill-farming.

Edited by Nutduster
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Lonely-Martin
1 hour ago, Nutduster said:

 

I enjoy the Scramjet just for goof-off value. And kind of like the Stromberg but only because it's a capable antidote to the annoyance of the broomsticks.

 

Generally though, I think these things are the single biggest problem with the game. It had issues from launch, some of which got better and some unfortunately got a lot worse. But the meme vehicles, especially the Mk II, are on a different level. I was in a lobby today and there were five guys on them non-stop. They weren't even together--when they ran into each other, they'd fight. But the rest of the time they were all flying around blasting anyone who crossed paths with them.  I had two different guys kill me in 1) a Frogger, as I flew away from him, clearly trying not to die; and 2) a car I had just jacked off the street. And to reiterate an earlier point, I'm under level 30.

 

The game is full enough of douchebags. I wish Rockstar had not enabled them quite so much. They should have to work at least SLIGHTLY for their kill-farming.

I dunno, I more think it was the switch to public only to access content with these businesses to be fair.

 

If we had the freedom of old to access it all from anywhere, those wacky toys (and daft cannon) would have far less of an impact I believe as players would just know they can be avoided without having to look up workarounds or abuse the kick feature to maintain lobby control etc.

 

Public lobbies were always just chaos/a mess, but stuff like business battles and the addition of more freemode events was all that was needed in public to spice things up for the more freemode PvP crowd IMHO.

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Spectre "2K"
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Nutduster said:

And kind of like the Stromberg but only because it's a capable antidote to the annoyance of the broomsticks.

only against really garbage pilots, i've found. If they have half of a brain cell and know chaff beats flares in almost every situation, a stromberg is f*cked

 

granted, most mk2 pilots don't have said brain cell so you're usually fine

Edited by Spectre "2K"
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DJ-Jelly-Doughnut

...when people back out of the last stage of a setup...

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Jenkiiii
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Nutduster said:

 

I enjoy the Scramjet just for goof-off value. And kind of like the Stromberg but only because it's a capable antidote to the annoyance of the broomsticks.

 

Generally though, I think these things are the single biggest problem with the game. It had issues from launch, some of which got better and some unfortunately got a lot worse. But the meme vehicles, especially the Mk II, are on a different level. I was in a lobby today and there were five guys on them non-stop. They weren't even together--when they ran into each other, they'd fight. But the rest of the time they were all flying around blasting anyone who crossed paths with them.  I had two different guys kill me in 1) a Frogger, as I flew away from him, clearly trying not to die; and 2) a car I had just jacked off the street. And to reiterate an earlier point, I'm under level 30.

 

The game is full enough of douchebags. I wish Rockstar had not enabled them quite so much. They should have to work at least SLIGHTLY for their kill-farming.

While I think the Mk II definitely needs a nerf and that changing its missiles to Buzzard/jet lock-on standard would definitely help, you are over exaggerating just how bad it is. Playing as a noob doesn't help either, which magnifies your difficulties.

 

Your assumption that many people are douchebags is not quite right. Yes, we are selfish by our very nature as we look out for ourselves and our immediate circle first and foremost, but I would say only 10% to 20% of the world consists of actual douchebags (which is still a lot).

 

Personally, I find free-aim lobbies less agitated. You get dedicated griefing organizations, true, but then again you get people who seem more focused on freemode activities, whereas in assisted aim it seems more of a melting pot of ideas and experimentation.

 

For example; last night I played for several hours and had two distinct experiences with Mk IIs:

  • A guy who circled away when we came into close proximity, who I attempted to avoid as well. Later on, as we were heading for each other, he did a detour to the right and I went to the left. This happens a lot more than you think. Most people are simply going about their business and not looking for battles.
  • A crew of two who came after my Nightclub delivery after being alerted and probably because my first checkpoint was right in the middle of the city, followed by a solo player on his Mk II who took both of them out and then swerved away back to his own business! After the delivery, I messaged him: THANKS, Buddy, to which he responded: My pleasure. You can't assume that feuding groups of players are entirely full of douchebags.
     

Later on, I got attacked by a Mk II when travelling back to the city in a BF Surfer. I fended him off for a bit, but ultimately lost my cargo. Yes, these cowards exist all over the place, but it was mostly an isolated incident. In fact, by using a Mk II yourself, you'll probably get into much less trouble than you did before.

 

 

 

Edited by Jenkiiii
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Nutduster
58 minutes ago, Jenkiiii said:

While I think the Mk II definitely needs a nerf and that changing its missiles to Buzzard/jet lock-on standard would definitely help, you are over exaggerating just how bad it is. Playing as a noob doesn't help either, which magnifies your difficulties.

 

 

1 - I don't understand what you think I'm exaggerating. I described an experience I had, which was accurate (and for the record, I also got blown up or attempted to by three more random Mk IIs this morning, once while driving a Trashmaster for heist prep, which was just super enjoyable). I described why I object to the vehicle on principle, which to me is inarguable: it spawns at your feet, it has ridiculously OP homing missiles, it flies with high speed and manevuerability, it has defenses and is very hard to hit with anything except your own homing missiles, and it's hard to fight without one of a few very specific counters that cost a lot of money to access. Maybe you don't agree with me that it's the game's current biggest problem, but that's not "exaggeration," that's a simple matter of opinion.

 

2 - I will never understand counter-arguments like "Playing as a noob doesn't help." Absolutely, it doesn't. Lots and lots of players play as noobs. The vast majority of players from what I've seen are still under level 120 and probably have bank accounts that correspond to their low level.

 

Problems with this game--or any multiplayer game--need to be viewed holistically. That means judging how the majority of players experience them, and how the average player experiences them. When people talk about the Mk II in terms like, "Well just level up more," "Just earn more money," "Just buy your own," "Just buy a Stromberg (and use it 100% of the time so you don't get wrecked at random)", "Play free aim," "Go into solo public sessions," etc. etc., I can only roll my eyes. These are not solutions; they are workarounds. That you have to do all these elaborate, time-consuming things to counter one dumb vehicle is exactly why it's a problem. It's not that there's NOTHING to be done, it's that it's so powerful and multi-purpose all by itself that the entire game warps around it, like a supermassive black hole drawing everything in with its gravity. It's way out of balance, it sucks for new or casual players who are victimized by it, and it is the most obvious piece of pay2win kit in the entire game. Period.

1 hour ago, Jenkiiii said:

 

Your assumption that many people are douchebags is not quite right. Yes, we are selfish by our very nature as we look out for ourselves and our immediate circle first and foremost, but I would say only 10% to 20% of the world consists of actual douchebags (which is still a lot).

 

 

I didn't say most people were douchebags. I said the game is full of enough of them that they don't need to be enabled with easy-kill weaponry. If you get into a full session of 30 and 25 people are going about their business, but 5 are zipping all around on broomsticks and detonating everything they lock onto, that is still very much not an enjoyable session to be in. It may be that the majority of GTA players are decent people; I would buy that based on my experiences. But if you're in a lobby with a handful of people constantly starting their own MC and calling for their Mk II, you better avoid them like the plague. Because most of them will most of the time kill you unprompted. And since the Mk II makes that terribly easy for them to do, and noobs like my new character are trying to do missions or just drive around in regular-ass vehicles with no protection at all, I consider that a significant problem.

 

I would go so far as to say that not only is the Mk II horribly OP and in need of nerfing or removal, weaponized vehicles never should have been added as personal vehicles at all. Especially any with homing missiles or flight. They're simply too convenient. The combination of raw power and ease of access was bad for the game. The early days, where the only such vehicles you could own were via Pegasus and appeared at a few known, inconvenient spawn locations was a far superior model (unless you just want to be a PvP turd all day and don't care how the other 90% of the game's content and player base is affected).

 

And yes I do get that some people just want this thing because it makes missions easier. But that's just using one problem to solve another problem. You wouldn't need a flying motorcycle to make jobs bearable if the jobs weren't designed to make you run from one end of the map to the other and fight overpowered aimbotting AI all the time. GTA has been a victim of an evolving design philosophy, if you can even call it that. Power creep played a major role in taking it from a game with flaws but potential, to the mess it is today.

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Jenkiiii
7 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

Period.

Well, maybe that's the way you are? Not posting on here for years, but freely admitting that you now play as a level-30 noob while re-enforcing your opinion as the defacto one regarding Oppressor Mk IIs.


Steady on a bit, mate. It's good to have you back and it's also challenging to have an intellectual opinion to bounce off of, but perhaps you should get up to speed and take a more objective look at the Oppressor Mk II to try and appreciate some of its more positive aspects? OK, I didn't choose to make it my go-to vehicle, but felt purposefully shoved into doing so, but I have learned to enjoy GTA online in 2020 instead of constantly bashing it against the critical rocks.

 

Personally, I am rather tired of hearing how awful GTA online has become; so, dear Rockstar, please nerf the Mk II missiles a bit to give the game a bit more breathing room.

 

 

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SummerFreeze
30 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

(and for the record, I also got blown up or attempted to by three more random Mk IIs this morning, once while driving a Trashmaster for heist prep, which was just super enjoyable)

You can do casino heist prep in invite-only sessions.

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Jenkiiii

@Nutduster, I appreciate your passion, and although I do not advocate the removal of the Oppressor Mk II from the game, I fully support any attempts to get it nerfed. Don't forget that Rockstar imposed a cooldown on how often it can be called after being destroyed: five minutes, giving people incentive to hinder other Mk II riders, which also means you can no longer own multiple Mk IIs to call one after the other as an MC president. On top of that, you can't use one any more in passive mode, so Rockstar have been making attempts to ease its aggressiveness, but definitely not enough in my opinion. Perhaps my attitude of biting the bullet and learning to live with it isn't the right one, but I definitely support nerfing it.

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computertech82
On 7/17/2020 at 5:11 AM, BoDarville said:

 

1. Modders - it's really hard to find a lobby without one. From making it snow to making you explode continuously, they're a cancer.

 

2. Silly vehicles/weapons - this is a personal thing, but I really hate all the flying, missile launching, laser firing, submersible, jumping, rocket vehicles in the game now. 

 

3. The online community - sorry to say this, but this game has one of the most toxic communities I've ever encountered. Perhaps it's the (seeming) lack of consequences for anything from anti-social behavior right up to full on cheating, but most lobbies are full of a-holes like flies crawling on sh*t.  :(

 

 

 

 

I agree with this. I wouldn't call the first group 'modders', most like cheaters using a program made by someone else, that cockstar still has NOT taken away admin rights from. So even if you try to report the cheater, possible the name is fake, and the report goes DIRECTLY TO THE CHEATER, not cockstar. oops. But cockstar is too cheap to fix it, since that would require a large re-write of the game.

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