Do you agree with CJ or Sweet

[tony da boss]

When Sweet gets out of prison all he cares about is grove street and taking the hood back. CJ tries telling him he's moved on to better things in San Fierro and Las Venturas but Sweet doesn't care at all.  He literally doesn't even acknowledge Carl in his new business ventures owning a car dealership and an airfield. Personally I think CJ was more right but he listens to him anyway and tries to reunite his gang.

[Lemoyne outlaw]

i think carl was right. why should sweet go back to living in a bad neighborhood. fighting for stupid reasons. i get that the grove was his home and childhood. but if he was smart he would have realized that he should grow up and move on. he could have lived in a mansion and have a great life. 

[Cutter De Blanc]

I agree with both of them somewhat (though Sweet is an ungrateful twat) and am happy Carl helped out the Grove using his newfound power and technology. 

 

Hunter helicopter raining down death on Balla OGs

[VenusianDream]

I think they were both wrong. Carl abandoned his friends and family after Brian died, left for Liberty City and didn't come back until his mother died. Sweet (and to a smaller extent, Ryder) was mad at him for leaving and wanted Carl to learn about loyalty and to remember where he had came from. The problem with Sweet is that he refused to move on from gangbanging and was content with staying in the hood despite there being better opportunities elsewhere. By the end of the game they both realized their flaws and decided to stick together instead of arguing their differences.

[GhettoJesus]

Both.  Obviously the smart thing would be to move in with CJ but the moral thing would be to fix your wrongdoings and take revenge.

[cerdopalo]

im tink sweet are right because you are leader of a gang and you are need to get you hood back 

[KarimNTerr]

Sweet is an ass

 

 

[GhettoJesus]

4 hours ago, KarimNTerr said:

Sweet is an ass

-snip-

I partially disagree with this video. Sure, Sweet is more of a straight forward type of guy who thinks with his heart rather than with his mind, but it is unknown what he was doing when he wasn't in jail and wasn't with us. Also could he really tell what Smoke and Ryder was up to? Ryder showed genuine hostility towards the Ballas. Smoke in the meantime doesn't really look like a traitor to Sweet. To him Smoke is someone who is chasing profits by trying to convince Sweet to get on with the times but Sweet adheres to his principles and doesn't let go. Plus most of the stuff in the section "what CJ was doing" isn't canon, just feels like Hugo tried to inflate CJ's achievements. The crack part could stand its ground as legit criticism but then again Sweet is pretty bummed out that everything they worked for is gone and they have to start again from zero. He probably lost his drive after the stagnation. As for Sweet not acknowledging CJ's achievements, well it's not like CJ really bragged about risking his life on government jobs. And how could Sweet save his mom? I am 100% sure they wanted to do a drive-by on Sweet (after all the only reason to shoot his mom would be psychological warfare) and it's not like you could foresee a car rolling in and it's occupants killing your mother. Blaming that on Sweet is just as stupid as Sweet blaming it on CJ. Finally the firetruck part, with that I agree. I always found it stupid how Sweet would only jump when he was in danger of falling down.

 

As an addendum I will quote myself from an earlier thread on why Sweet makes sense.

 

Quote

It actually represents Sweet's closed minded attitude well. Sweet has probably never been outside Los Santos and all his life revolves around the hood. Keep in mind that he probably has no employable education (at best he finished high school) and went to gangbanging. That is what he was born into, that is what he knows. Why would he appricate legit business when the world for him is the homies? It isn't as farfetched as you would think it is. Should be fairly common in the real world. Plus the whole thing hurts Sweet's pride. He is the older brother, the leader, and his busta lil' bro accomplished everything. He doesn't think it is fair and he doesn't see the real value in these.

 

[Limefong]

Both.

[Guest]

CJ for sure. Sweet was just a bitch.

[Another GTA Fan]

I don't believe there is a "right" or "wrong" in this at all. Sweet wanted his old life back, but CJ developed a new life. Sweet seems like the person that just wants things to remain the same; I'm like this myself, but then there's other people who are opportunists and visionaries, etc. People like Elon Musk are visionaries that are always looking for ways to improve the future and welcome change, but then there's people who are not, and that's okay too.

 

I can agree that Sweet should give CJ a break a bit and let him follow his own heart, but if Sweet wants to keep the Grove going and for it being as it's always been, that's not wrong. There is no right or wrong, just 2 Brothers that have 2 different personality traits.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Another GTA Fan

[vcfan1991]

I know R* games h8 on CJ... The real question should be why did R* cheap out on Young Maylay by not paying royalties? Or could it be Maylay's own fault for not having a lawyer read his contract terms and negotiate royalties? 

Maylay got short-changed just like how Scottie Pippen did. It's not right and it's not fair. Shouts out to the homies... !

 

 

[Dr Busta]

Carl

The family deserve a better life if sweet isn't a good gangbanger and can't seem to protect his family , friends and himself or be a good leader 

then why start it sh*thead?

he tried to smoke crack and doesn't know how to get money for the family which is the reason why big smoke took money from Tenpenny (spent on the house)  to convince sweet that they need to sell drugs , so if it wasn't for sweet being a bad leader smoke would have never been a traitor I mean he had no choice if he continued living with an asshole like sweet he would have been probably already dead

Meanwhile CJ has made sure that they'll live safely and happily forever with a lot of cash to spend so they won't need to live that bad life where they would die a very poor death 

So yeah CJ is right

Edit : also according to a cut dialogue with big bear Sweet is the only reason Grove fell down and he does absolutely nothing so f*ck sweet ,sweet bad and overrated and all

Edited January 2, 2021 by DR:BUSTA

[Big_Smiley]

12 hours ago, Another GTA Fan said:

I can agree that Sweet should give CJ a break a bit and let him follow his own heart, but if Sweet wants to keep the Grove going and for it being as it's always been, that's not wrong. There is no right or wrong, just 2 Brothers that have 2 different personality traits. 

The thing is CJ wanted to change after leaving the gang life behind after seeing life itself more than a hood surrounded by rivals after seeing SF and LV. Sweet is simply an ungrateful ass throughout the game and a terrible gang leader that brought CJ back into the hood after the life and the riches. I don't mind if Sweet takes back Grove ST for what it is but the dude  seriously lacks leadership skills which CJ would have fit perfectly into that category. Really the only reason why The Grove remained is because of Carl. But if you look at it this way Sweet convinced Carl to get back into the hood and without that the gang would have been lost seeing as I highly doubt Sweet would ever do his own work to get Grove back on it's feet. 

 

11 hours ago, DR:BUSTA said:

The family deserve a better life if sweet isn't a good gangbanger and can't seem to protect his family , friends and himself or be a good leader 

then why start it sh*thead?

I agree with everything you mentioned but remember that Grove ST is one of the original street gangs in LS that came out in the 1970's. The Johnson family by this point are way too in-deep into gang life and pretty much are mafia gang related crime families. For all we know Beverly must of been a triple OG gangster in the gang, lmaoo. We never knew about the father but we can assume by the name the father and some of his neighborhood friends started the gang when LS in the 70's was Increasely overcome by crime and police. Other gangs came along in the late 70's and 80's which would lead into an increase rate of gang violence and lead up into the LSPD creating CRASH to monitor gang members on the streets and use new  tactics to help decrease all the street violence. Honestly though who ever promoted Sweet into gang leader in the late 80's must been f*cking high on PCP or some sh*t like Ryder, lmaoo.

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Big_Smiley

[FanEu7]

Sweet is a dick and 100% wrong and I hate how the game acts like he is right and CJ has to constantly apologize.

 

It would be great if he could call out Sweet properly. 

 

[Guest]

On 1/2/2021 at 7:17 AM, DR:BUSTA said:

Edit : also according to a cut dialogue with big bear Sweet is the only reason Grove fell down and he does absolutely nothing so f*ck sweet ,sweet bad and overrated and all

''Sweet, man, he did absolutely nothing.''

-Big Bear

[Guest]

Just comepleted ''Home Coming''. Sweet was an ungrateful ass. Doesn't care about what CJ has done on his journey (getting a casino, for example), and then Sweet goes like ''n****, what the f*ck is this bullsh*t?''. He only cares about the weak Grove Street when he doesn't do sh*t to the gang anyway. Definetely the worst character in San Andreas.

[FanEu7]

2 hours ago, OH76 said:

Just comepleted ''Home Coming''. Sweet was an ungrateful ass. Doesn't care about what CJ has done on his journey (getting a casino, for example), and then Sweet goes like ''n****, what the f*ck is this bullsh*t?''. He only cares about the weak Grove Street when he doesn't do sh*t to the gang anyway. Definetely the worst character in San Andreas.

I don't think he is a bad character though, in fact he is an interesting and well written character..although annoying as hell. It makes sense that he would be stuck with the hood mentality (he doesn't really know anything else). Not to mention he also seems jealous of CJ's accomplishments and acts like everything he did doesn't matter.

 

The only problem is that CJ doesn't call him out. He just says "its not fair" and once he asks about what the hood ever did for him but that's it. This is a missed opportunity for real character growth for CJ and Sweet honestly

[OG Grief]

I think they both have valid concerns. Starting with Sweet, he grew up in the hood, he made friends, memories with his family, made money. As the game progresses things get worse for Sweet because the gang losses its influence, his brother dies, his mother dies, his homes try to convince him to introduce drugs to the hood against his wishes, he goes to prison, his two friends betray him etc. He doesn't have much to his name. No job, no education, no real opportunities, this gang thing is his whole life. He doesn't want Kendl to date an Azteca, he hates that CJ left, he cares deeply about not allowing drugs into his hood, he took Carl tagging, the list could go on. Basically it's his life's work and his pride shows in his clothes and his decisions throughout the game.

CJ on the other hand is more concerned about how his set is going to reward him. He put a huge amount of work in and was given little in return whereas missions with Wu zi, Catalina, Truth, Toreno all brought him some decent benefits at the end. All the Grove has done for him was bring him grief. Dead homes, family, betrayal, ties to corrupt police, and a target on his back everywhere he goes.

In the end, following Sweet solved alot of the Grove's promblems. Everyone lives happily ever after. Following CJ would have been pretty beneficial too, what with all his business ventures. Grove street gets taken over by the Ballas in gta V anyway...

[OG Grief]

On 7/9/2020 at 3:54 AM, KarimNTerr said:

Sweet is an ass

 

 

This video  posted by KarimNTerr is pretty agreeable imo

[muvdafucupouttahere]

18 hours ago, FanEu7 said:

I don't think he is a bad character though, in fact he is an interesting and well written character..although annoying as hell. It makes sense that he would be stuck with the hood mentality (he doesn't really know anything else). Not to mention he also seems jealous of CJ's accomplishments and acts like everything he did doesn't matter.

 

The only problem is that CJ doesn't call him out. He just says "its not fair" and once he asks about what the hood ever did for him but that's it. This is a missed opportunity for real character growth for CJ and Sweet honestly

If you're interested, there's a rewrite version of the storyline that improves on some things, including CJ's conversations with Sweet.

[FanEu7]

12 minutes ago, muvdafucupouttahere said:

If you're interested, there's a rewrite version of the storyline that improves on some things, including CJ's conversations with Sweet.

Where? Would be interesting to read

[Lioshenka]

I think that Sweet is actually a covert narcissist. I can't speculate what has had that effect on his personality, but looking just at the facts in the game there's plenty to suggest that he's has a controlling violent behaviour towards CJ.

 

- He always belittles CJ and doesn't acknowledge his successes. On a rare occasion that he does it is only so that he can claim that it was a joint effort, which would not be possibly without Sweet's participation: "We showed these ballas, CJ!"

- He lies, and lies, and lies. No matter what CJ does, Sweet refuses to even accept it: "You never did anything for the hood!"

- He constantly blames CJ for the mistakes of others, quite possible for the events to which CJ has no relation: "You let mother die, and you let Brian die!".

- He refuses to accept help or advice, or have a grown-up conversation to even discuss the pros and cons. He is always right, and the opinion of CJ is irrelevant to him: "We are not going to San Fierro, we are going to the hood!"

- He belittles CJ in front of the others, to portray himself as a victim, as a martyr e.g. in the very first cemetery cutscene. Sure, it's his 16-17 year old brother who's departure was the reason behind all these homies dying, and GSF losing control of the streets. Like any narcissist, Sweet doesn't see how the two statements conflict with each other - if CJ never did anything for the hood then how his departure could have affected it's success? Let alone that a teenager was hardly a major influence on the gang.

 

In fact, I am fairly certain that Johnson mother and Brian dies either because of a direct action of Sweet, or due to his inaction. Unable to accept the responsibility, he laid the blame on his little brother CJ, who was always the scapegoat, bullied from the little age into submission and serving his big brother. Of course back then CJ couldn't understand this - surely, his big brother is family and wouldn't want to harm him? With the rest of the family out of the picture, Sweet became even more despotic and controlling. CJ often went hungry or without clothes or other basic necessities, while Sweet lounged like king in front of the telly, living off his deceased relatives' inheritance, but lacking the mental capacity to run the gang and build on the previous successes.

 

In 1987 it was too much to take, and after yet another Sweet's rage fit CJ took off, leaving the past behind him. He was forced to start his life afresh, learning all the basic social and life skills that he was robbed of during his teenage years. Nonetheless, without the crazy despotic brother around CJ was able to make the ends meet by robbing people and carjacking - but no doubt that his had a place to call home at that point.

 

I really hope that at the end of the story CJ cut Sweet out of his life, because he was a toxic influence and the cause behind all of the CJ's failures.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Lioshenka

[muvdafucupouttahere]

5 hours ago, FanEu7 said:

Where? Would be interesting to read

Just type in "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas Rewrite" in google, and you can read the rest of the story in either FanFiction or Wattpad.

Edited January 4, 2021 by muvdafucupouttahere

[Dr Busta]

4 hours ago, Lioshenka said:

I think that Sweet is actually a covert narcissist. I can't speculate what has had that effect on his personality, but looking just at the facts in the game there's plenty to suggest that he's has a controlling violent behaviour towards CJ.

 

- He always belittles CJ and doesn't acknowledge his successes. On a rare occasion that he does it is only so that he can claim that it was a joint effort, which would not be possibly without Sweet's participation: "We showed these ballas, CJ!"

- He lies, and lies, and lies. No matter what CJ does, Sweet refuses to even accept it: "You never did anything for the hood!"

- He constantly blames CJ for the mistakes of others, quite possible for the events to which CJ has no relation: "You let mother die, and you let Brian die!".

- He refuses to accept help or advice, or have a grown-up conversation to even discuss the pros and cons. He is always right, and the opinion of CJ is irrelevant to him: "We are not going to San Fierro, we are going to the hood!"

- He belittles CJ in front of the others, to portray himself as a victim, as a martyr e.g. in the very first cemetery cutscene. Sure, it's his 16-17 year old brother who's departure was the reason behind all these homies dying, and GSF losing control of the streets. Like any narcissist, Sweet doesn't see how the two statements conflict with each other - if CJ never did anything for the hood then how his departure could have affected it's success? Let alone that a teenager was hardly a major influence on the gang.

 

In fact, I am fairly certain that Johnson mother and Brian dies either because of a direct action of Sweet, or due to his inaction. Unable to accept the responsibility, he laid the blame on his little brother CJ, who was always the scapegoat, bullied from the little age into submission and serving his big brother. Of course back then CJ couldn't understand this - surely, his big brother is family and wouldn't want to harm him? With the rest of the family out of the picture, Sweet became even more despotic and controlling. CJ often went hungry or without clothes or other basic necessities, while Sweet lounged like king in front of the telly, living off his deceased relatives' inheritance, but lacking the mental capacity to run the gang and build on the previous successes.

 

In 1987 it was too much to take, and after yet another Sweet's rage fit CJ took off, leaving the past behind him. He was forced to start his life afresh, learning all the basic social and life skills that he was robbed of during his teenage years. Nonetheless, without the crazy despotic brother around CJ was able to make the ends meet by robbing people and carjacking - but no doubt that his had a place to call home at that point.

 

I really hope that at the end of the story CJ cut Sweet out of his life, because he was a toxic influence and the cause behind all of the CJ's failures.

Sweet would make a perfect teacher

Spoiler

Bad internet duplicated it *_*

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by DR:BUSTA

[Dr Busta]

On 7/9/2020 at 12:54 PM, KarimNTerr said:

Sweet is an ass

 

 

This video is like my reminder why is this the greatest video game of all time