I made a petition

[Ghoffman9]

2 hours ago, AirWolf359 said:

ever tried doing casino preps in an invite only session? it's great, you should try it

Clearly the main point went over your head. The point of adding preps was to artificially lengthen the time needed before you can engage the finale by adding additional unnecessary steps. Rockstar noticed how people grinded heists back when they released the first set of heists and they took notice. They didn't like that and so thrown in additional hurdles to get over.

 

Private or public, you still gotta take long treks to the opposite side of the map to retrieve something and then come back. Sometimes multiple times for a single mission such as sourcing more than one vehicle for example. Its an artificial time lengthener. Some of these preps in fact from both the Casino Heist and Doomsday is recycled content from previous content updates that have come before.

Must think we're stupid to not notice. (Some very well may be. I cannot say.)

Most are about as creative as contact missions, which if you ever played them is not creative at all. Go here. Get thing. Come back. The only thing that varies is the location of which you do those three things. 

It does not have to be so long as it does its job as far as Rockstar is concerned, eat up time.

 

I am among those who never had an issue with the setup missions from all the heists as they were varied and interesting, each having you do something unique such as sneaking onto a military ship to steal a jet, or stealing the Khanjali and use it to fend off an onslaught of rhino tanks and helicopters as you go. The preps however are dull, intentionally.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Ghoffman9

[SummerFreeze]

1 hour ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Clearly the main point went over your head. The point of adding preps was to artificially lengthen the time needed before you can engage the finale by adding additional unnecessary steps. Rockstar noticed how people grinded heists back when they released the first set of heists and they took notice. They didn't like that and so thrown in additional hurdles to get over.

 

Private or public, you still gotta take long treks to the opposite side of the map to retrieve something and then come back. Sometimes multiple times for a single mission such as sourcing more than one vehicle for example. Its an artificial time lengthener. Some of these preps in fact from both the Casino Heist and Doomsday is recycled content from previous content updates that have come before.

Must think we're stupid to not notice. (Some very well may be. I cannot say.)

Most are about as creative as contact missions, which if you ever played them is not creative at all. Go here. Get thing. Come back. The only thing that varies is the location of which you do those three things. 

It does not have to be so long as it does its job as far as Rockstar is concerned, eat up time.

 

I am among those who never had an issue with the setup missions from all the heists as they were varied and interesting, each having you do something unique such as sneaking onto a military ship to steal a jet, or stealing the Khanjali and use it to fend off an onslaught of rhino tanks and helicopters as you go. The preps however are dull, intentionally.

You'll still waste more time setting up the old heist finales, especially when you consider the fact that you need 4 people, whereas 2 people can set up a casino heist in about 60 minutes, or 1 person in about 90 minutes.

 

I would bet if you made a poll the majority of people would prefer the Casino Heist over the original Heists and the Doomsday Heist for this very reason.

 

So this would be contrary to your argument that it's the monetization scheme in particular that made the game worse. Instead of, say, the reduced amount of resources invested into developing the game, or Rockstar delaying the release of GTA 6 because Online is still very profitable.

[Ghoffman9]

1 hour ago, SummerFreeze said:

You'll still waste more time setting up the old heist finales, especially when you consider the fact that you need 4 people, whereas 2 people can set up a casino heist in about 60 minutes, or 1 person in about 90 minutes.

 

I would bet if you made a poll the majority of people would prefer the Casino Heist over the original Heists and the Doomsday Heist for this very reason.

 

So this would be contrary to your argument that it's the monetization scheme in particular that made the game worse. Instead of, say, the reduced amount of resources invested into developing the game, or Rockstar delaying the release of GTA 6 because Online is still very profitable.

You're getting off topic. I refer to the original heists cause the one thing they do better is the fact there are no preps. Just the setups and the finale itself.

Rockstar tacked on preps cause they simply wanted it to take longer. Their reasoning for their inclusion is completely ulterior.

Gotta do 4 or 5 preps before getting to the actual fun content.

 

The old heists may have needed more people sure, but its indisputable that they're quicker when you got the 4 man team. Just the setups, then the finale, and you're done.

The heists that followed added another 4 busy work missions on top, its no question.

 

A lot of it has to do with the fact too many players are throwing money at Rockstar. They will have no reason to improve like that. However if their finances began to dwindle on account of the issues, that changes things.

Look no further than RDO, they implemented many improvements that the players requested because it was not making the kind of money they wanted. Something unheard of here in Gta Online.

[xInfected_Virus]

I personally use the Oppressor MK-II for grinding and it makes Casino Heist preps so much easier than the Buzzard because you don't have to waste time firing up the engine while enemies are shooting at you after you collected the item or prep things. It's also very maneuverable as well and can fit in tight spaces and easy to park. If I'm about to get griefed then I either leave the session or get into a Lazer and tear the MK-II Oppressor griefer apart with explosive cannons while still being agile enough to dodge all of it's 20 missiles. Once the griefer us out of missiles, I chase him before he makes it to his hideout and show no mercy on him. 

 

As someone who plays in populated free aim lobbies on a constant basis, the chances of getting griefed on free aim are reduced.

[SummerFreeze]

2 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

You're getting off topic. I refer to the original heists cause the one thing they do better is the fact there are no preps. Just the setups and the finale itself.

I'm not going off-topic; you're refusing to see the bigger picture.

 

The majority of players prefer the preps of the casino heist over the setup missions of the original heists.

 

Which again raises the question, how is the monetization scheme in particular making the game worse?

 

Instead of say, the low amount of resources going into the development of the game that's completely disproportionate to the money it made.

 

2 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

A lot of it has to do with the fact too many players are throwing money at Rockstar. They will have no reason to improve like that. However if their finances began to dwindle on account of the issues, that changes things.

Look no further than RDO, they implemented many improvements that the players requested because it was not making the kind of money they wanted. Something unheard of here in Gta Online.

But which one is the far more popular game? GTA Online

 

Stop blaming the players when the company has made enough money to develop two more GTA titles by now.

Edited July 14, 2020 by SummerFreeze

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

I guess it's safe to say that while the Casino Heist is an overall improvement to the old old Online Heist formula (two players minimum, easy to replay, more approaches), it also suffers from the same issues as before (paywalls, busted NPCs, padded out missions, etc).

 

IMO, I wouldn't mind if R* reworked both the original Heists and The Doomsday Heist to the Casino Heist formula and this time only dedicated a single property for all of them instead of three, one for each one (High End Apartment, Facility, Arcade), but I'll guess that wouldn't happen.

 

Would be cool to have three approaches for Pacific Standard, ngl

[Rotorhead359]

7 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Clearly the main point went over your head. The point of adding preps was to artificially lengthen the time needed before you can engage the finale by adding additional unnecessary steps. Rockstar noticed how people grinded heists back when they released the first set of heists and they took notice. They didn't like that and so thrown in additional hurdles to get over.

 

Private or public, you still gotta take long treks to the opposite side of the map to retrieve something and then come back. Sometimes multiple times for a single mission such as sourcing more than one vehicle for example. Its an artificial time lengthener. Some of these preps in fact from both the Casino Heist and Doomsday is recycled content from previous content updates that have come before.

Must think we're stupid to not notice. (Some very well may be. I cannot say.)

Most are about as creative as contact missions, which if you ever played them is not creative at all. Go here. Get thing. Come back. The only thing that varies is the location of which you do those three things. 

It does not have to be so long as it does its job as far as Rockstar is concerned, eat up time.

 

I am among those who never had an issue with the setup missions from all the heists as they were varied and interesting, each having you do something unique such as sneaking onto a military ship to steal a jet, or stealing the Khanjali and use it to fend off an onslaught of rhino tanks and helicopters as you go. The preps however are dull, intentionally.

Agreed, but I was referring to the following part. Invite-only avoids that problem completely:

 

16 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

All the while praying that a Mk 2 Oppressor, jet, or something else  does not show up to blow your ass to kingdom come during your long trek back.

 

[Pedinhuh]

2 hours ago, YELLOW ZOOMER WITH DRONE said:

I guess it's safe to say that while the Casino Heist is an overall improvement to the old old Online Heist formula (two players minimum, easy to replay, more approaches), it also suffers from the same issues as before (paywalls, busted NPCs, padded out missions, etc).

 

IMO, I wouldn't mind if R* reworked both the original Heists and The Doomsday Heist to the Casino Heist formula and this time only dedicated a single property for all of them instead of three, one for each one (High End Apartment, Facility, Arcade), but I'll guess that wouldn't happen.

 

Would be cool to have three approaches for Pacific Standard, ngl

Frankly, I would just settle for the setups to be done on free roam.

 

All the setups of the OG heist can already be done solo anyway, all it would take is to rewrite the missions to add more spawn points for the objectives:

 

Fleeca - Scope out: Passenger isn't needed because the hacking minigame isn't necessary to complete the mission, Lester's dialogue can just be muted, Not even Lester is needed to be there.

 

Fleeca - Kuruma: Only one player is needed to storm the parking lot and steal the Kuruma, parking lot can be pretty much anyone in the city, there are countless of those available.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prison Break - Airplane: You only need the pilot really, he can storm the airfield, or whatever else the airplane is like the beach on Paleto Bay for example, alone and kill every Vagos and then take off the airplane and land it on LSX.

 

Prison Break - Police Station: All it takes is a single player to get in the station, grab the schedule, go to the apartment and then go after the Casco at the docks and deliver it.

 

Prison Break - Prison Bus: Only one player is needed to steal the bus, the other players acting as distraction are entirely not needed.

 

Prison Break - Wet work: Again, one player can easily go and kill both lawyers at the City Hall with a well timed RPG, well placed explosive mines, or assault them with any weapon, then the same player can just go after the target at the mansion, too easy.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Humane Raid - Keycards: Only one player is needed to buy the key cards, it will be harder to deal with the FIB trap, but not impossible.

 

Humane Raid - Insurgents: There's no point in stealing the turreted Insurgent as it's not used in the heist anyway, so a single player can just storm the quarry alone, steal the regular Insurgent and dash towards the hideout, it's not even hard.

 

Humane Raid - Valkyre: Again, you only the Valkyre so you really only need one player flying the Valkyre...Good luck surviving the air battle with those Buzzards though.

 

Humane Raid - EMP: You only need the Hydra for this so you only need only pilot for it really, will be harder to survive the dogfight, but doable with some patience and flight skill.

 

Humane Raid - Deliver EMP: I have done this setups on my own countless times with noobs staying behind, not interfering. This can be easily done alone...In fact it would be much easier.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Series A - Coke: You just need to grab the coke batches which means you can assault the Yatch alone, you shouldn't even be forced to use the helicopter or the jetski for this...But being trigger happy with missiles wouldn't be wise as you could blow up the loot. Then just escape the cops, easy.

 

Series A - Trash Truck: The driver can double as a trash pickup, surviving the Vagos would be harder but fairly doable with the right equipment, drive the trash truck to the warehouse and finish it.

 

Series A - Bikers: just like stealing two getaway vehicles alone for the Casino heist, you would just need to go back and forth to the Stab City, can even make the stealth objective of the first half of the mission optional as for a easier getaway.

 

Series A - Sawmill: Same deal as the Bikers setups, only problem is that now you're doing 3 trips back and forth...might run into some time constraints here so a Bombushka should make this easier.

 

Series A - Meth: You just need the Tanker truck with the drugs on the tanker, so you only need one player for this.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pacific Standard - Vans: Just assign the Navigator role to one player, easy as f*ck.

 

Pacific Standard - Signal: You really only need to bring Avi alive to Paige, so only one player is needed to storm the island and bring him to safety.

 

Pacific Standard - Hack: Skip the entirety of the van swapping and the chase afterwards, just give it a short timer after the shootout for the player to swap the hacking device on the vans and then dash out of the lockup, then drop it off on Lester's factory.

 

Pacific Standard - Convoy: You just need the Barracks truck so you only need one player, good luck dealing with the convoy on your own though.

 

Pacific Standard - Bikes: Just stealing the bikes for the Casino Heist, you will have to do 4 trips back and forth to their location, but its doable.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Most of those setups would be harder with only one player, but again that would be on the player deciding to tackle them alone, just like the old Contact Missions with more than 1 player are harder to complete alone.

 

The dialogue with the NPC character would require some rewriting here and there, but it shouldn't be hard for R* to do since they have tons of money and the VAs are more than willingly to work with them again. Or they could just mute all the dialogues, which would be much, MUCH better for me as I want to rip my hairs out whenever I have to listen to them saying the same tired sentences over and over.

 

Since there are specific roles that can't be skipped for the heist finales, the heist finales can keep the 4 players requirement, just the setups is fine for me.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Pedinhuh

[Carlin_Stanhope]

Rather do casino preps then wait spend time waiting in a heist lobby waiting for 3 players to join just so you can attempt to do the original heist set ups. Some people just like to complain.

[Guest]

On 7/14/2020 at 4:37 PM, Pedinhuh said:

Frankly, I would just settle for the setups to be done on free roam.

 

All the setups of the OG heist can already be done solo anyway, all it would take is to rewrite the missions to add more spawn points for the objectives:

 

Fleeca - Scope out: Passenger isn't needed because the hacking minigame isn't necessary to complete the mission, Lester's dialogue can just be muted, Not even Lester is needed to be there.

 

Fleeca - Kuruma: Only one player is needed to storm the parking lot and steal the Kuruma, parking lot can be pretty much anyone in the city, there are countless of those available.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prison Break - Airplane: You only need the pilot really, he can storm the airfield, or whatever else the airplane is like the beach on Paleto Bay for example, alone and kill every Vagos and then take off the airplane and land it on LSX.

 

Prison Break - Police Station: All it takes is a single player to get in the station, grab the schedule, go to the apartment and then go after the Casco at the docks and deliver it.

 

Prison Break - Prison Bus: Only one player is needed to steal the bus, the other players acting as distraction are entirely not needed.

 

Prison Break - Wet work: Again, one player can easily go and kill both lawyers at the City Hall with a well timed RPG, well placed explosive mines, or assault them with any weapon, then the same player can just go after the target at the mansion, too easy.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Humane Raid - Keycards: Only one player is needed to buy the key cards, it will be harder to deal with the FIB trap, but not impossible.

 

Humane Raid - Insurgents: There's no point in stealing the turreted Insurgent as it's not used in the heist anyway, so a single player can just storm the quarry alone, steal the regular Insurgent and dash towards the hideout, it's not even hard.

 

Humane Raid - Valkyre: Again, you only the Valkyre so you really only need one player flying the Valkyre...Good luck surviving the air battle with those Buzzards though.

 

Humane Raid - EMP: You only need the Hydra for this so you only need only pilot for it really, will be harder to survive the dogfight, but doable with some patience and flight skill.

 

Humane Raid - Deliver EMP: I have done this setups on my own countless times with noobs staying behind, not interfering. This can be easily done alone...In fact it would be much easier.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Series A - Coke: You just need to grab the coke batches which means you can assault the Yatch alone, you shouldn't even be forced to use the helicopter or the jetski for this...But being trigger happy with missiles wouldn't be wise as you could blow up the loot. Then just escape the cops, easy.

 

Series A - Trash Truck: The driver can double as a trash pickup, surviving the Vagos would be harder but fairly doable with the right equipment, drive the trash truck to the warehouse and finish it.

 

Series A - Bikers: just like stealing two getaway vehicles alone for the Casino heist, you would just need to go back and forth to the Stab City, can even make the stealth objective of the first half of the mission optional as for a easier getaway.

 

Series A - Sawmill: Same deal as the Bikers setups, only problem is that now you're doing 3 trips back and forth...might run into some time constraints here so a Bombushka should make this easier.

 

Series A - Meth: You just need the Tanker truck with the drugs on the tanker, so you only need one player for this.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pacific Standard - Vans: Just assign the Navigator role to one player, easy as f*ck.

 

Pacific Standard - Signal: You really only need to bring Avi alive to Paige, so only one player is needed to storm the island and bring him to safety.

 

Pacific Standard - Hack: Skip the entirety of the van swapping and the chase afterwards, just give it a short timer after the shootout for the player to swap the hacking device on the vans and then dash out of the lockup, then drop it off on Lester's factory.

 

Pacific Standard - Convoy: You just need the Barracks truck so you only need one player, good luck dealing with the convoy on your own though.

 

Pacific Standard - Bikes: Just stealing the bikes for the Casino Heist, you will have to do 4 trips back and forth to their location, but its doable.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Most of those setups would be harder with only one player, but again that would be on the player deciding to tackle them alone, just like the old Contact Missions with more than 1 player are harder to complete alone.

 

The dialogue with the NPC character would require some rewriting here and there, but it shouldn't be hard for R* to do since they have tons of money and the VAs are more than willingly to work with them again. Or they could just mute all the dialogues, which would be much, MUCH better for me as I want to rip my hairs out whenever I have to listen to them saying the same tired sentences over and over.

 

Since there are specific roles that can't be skipped for the heist finales, the heist finales can keep the 4 players requirement, just the setups is fine for me.

Would be cool and a fun challenge to do all the heists solo.  I'm with this idea.  I think it would also be cool if they just dropped them all to 2 players like the casino. 

[Pedinhuh]

12 hours ago, BumpyJohnson said:

Would be cool and a fun challenge to do all the heists solo.  I'm with this idea.  I think it would also be cool if they just dropped them all to 2 players like the casino. 

Would be harder to do because the finales have roles that requires more than two players.

 

Prison break needs a guard, a prisoner and a pilot for the airplane.

You could do away with the Demolition man by switching the Velum 5 Seater for a armed aircraft like the Buzzard and have the Pilot defend himself...But dealing with the Lazers and police helicopters would be way harder. 

 

Humane Labs Raid needs two players to swipe the cards on the labs and a player on the helicopter outside covering for them, assuming you could switch the Valkyre for a Buzzard then the Pilot wouldn't need a gunner, but the Buzzard would struggle to deal with the targets on the ground and air.

 

On Series A you only need to deliver the trucks so you only need two drivers, the Bensons can tank most of the damage they will get as long as the drivers keep moving and don't crash, but the problem here is that the gangbangers are RELENTLESS and will shoot you dead even if you're careful, you need someone covering your drivers so you need the Technical with a gunner.

With this being said, Trevor could be the one driving the Technical while you shoot the enemies.

 

Pacific Standard might be the only one you could got away with only two players and still be doable I think.

On Pac Stan, inside the bank, the role of hacking and breaching the gates could be assigned to one player instead of needing two players for each task, the other player could work as crowd control while the hacker collects the money.

Getaway would largely play the same way.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Pedinhuh

[Guest]

On 7/22/2020 at 10:15 AM, Pedinhuh said:

Would be harder to do because the finales have roles that requires more than two players.

 

Prison break needs a guard, a prisoner and a pilot for the airplane.

You could do away with the Demolition man by switching the Velum 5 Seater for a armed aircraft like the Buzzard and have the Pilot defend himself...But dealing with the Lazers and police helicopters would be way harder. 

 

Humane Labs Raid needs two players to swipe the cards on the labs and a player on the helicopter outside covering for them, assuming you could switch the Valkyre for a Buzzard then the Pilot wouldn't need a gunner, but the Buzzard would struggle to deal with the targets on the ground and air.

 

On Series A you only need to deliver the trucks so you only need two drivers, the Bensons can tank most of the damage they will get as long as the drivers keep moving and don't crash, but the problem here is that the gangbangers are RELENTLESS and will shoot you dead even if you're careful, you need someone covering your drivers so you need the Technical with a gunner.

With this being said, Trevor could be the one driving the Technical while you shoot the enemies.

 

Pacific Standard might be the only one you could got away with only two players and still be doable I think.

On Pac Stan, inside the bank, the role of hacking and breaching the gates could be assigned to one player instead of needing two players for each task, the other player could work as crowd control while the hacker collects the money.

Getaway would largely play the same way.

So you dont think if they dropped them to 2 players those things would be addressed?