The GTA Continuity Is An Absolute Mess.

[Smash Bandicoot]

What the f*ck is going on? what games are canon to each other? are there even any games canon to eachother? are the Stories duo even canon to 3, VC, and SA? Lance and Salvatore and less serious and more childish, Donald Love is a cannibalistic maniac instead of a calm business man, there is an entire hill and tunnel to the north of Portland instead of a bay that has a ferry, Diaz is somehow the exact opposite of how he is in VC, Victor and Toni and completely different people from the ones in 3 and VC, Miguel literally bleeds to death, yet in GTA 3 he is all fine and dandy, there is MULTIPLE Miguels for some weird f*cking reason, the Sindaccos are nonexistent in GTA 3 and it can't be extinction, since the Forelis literally got all their bases and got extinct yet appear in GTA 3, and so on with the complete, unexplainable nonsense, same with GTA 4 and the 3 HD era LC games, Johnny looks COMPLETELY different, NONE of the characters who are DLC exclusive have an LCPD Database profile, not even in patches, Bulgarin now has a right hand man for no reason whatsoever, there are literal timeline paradoxes with Elizabeta and Billy Grey, and don't even get me started on Chinatown Wars, that game is the least canon you could possible get, so WTF is going on? did Rockstar overdose while making the timeline?

[KingAJ032304]

That last part with Chinatwon Wars I actually agree with but I think your making too big out of the characters f*ck ups. That's all they are... character f*cks ups. 

[Mikeol1987]

1 hour ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

What the f*ck is going on? what games are canon to each other? are there even any games canon to eachother? are the Stories duo even canon to 3, VC, and SA? Lance and Salvatore and less serious and more childish, Donald Love is a cannibalistic maniac instead of a calm business man, there is an entire hill and tunnel to the north of Portland instead of a bay that has a ferry, Diaz is somehow the exact opposite of how he is in VC, Victor and Toni and completely different people from the ones in 3 and VC, Miguel literally bleeds to death, yet in GTA 3 he is all fine and dandy, there is MULTIPLE Miguels for some weird f*cking reason, the Sindaccos are nonexistent in GTA 3 and it can't be extinction, since the Forelis literally got all their bases and got extinct yet appear in GTA 3, and so on with the complete, unexplainable nonsense, same with GTA 4 and the 3 HD era LC games, Johnny looks COMPLETELY different, NONE of the characters who are DLC exclusive have an LCPD Database profile, not even in patches, Bulgarin now has a right hand man for no reason whatsoever, there are literal timeline paradoxes with Elizabeta and Billy Grey, and don't even get me started on Chinatown Wars, that game is the least canon you could possible get, so WTF is going on? did Rockstar overdose while making the timeline?

This is what happens when you loosely write a crime story for a video game that has multiple missions. I don't think game universes hold as much weight into getting these kinds of legacy things right, as games are always fluid and change often more so than a book or a movie/tv. As I've always looked at it, I seperate the 2D, 3D & HD into their own dimensions and timelines; but I don't really pay much attention to the depths of the story. the story is always the same. warring gangs. 

[billiejoearmstrong8]

Yeah there's some inconsistent character changes. What do you mean about the timeline in IV though? I don't know about Billy Grey but I think the Elizabeta thing was discussed in another thread, it isn't inconsistent. 

 

Btw the answer to all of this is creative license. Sometimes making things interesting/entertaining or using an idea they really want to use is more important than perfect consistency between games.

Edited July 6, 2020 by billiejoearmstrong8

[KGBeast]

You not understanding things =/= the continuity being a mess

[Zello]

Prequels man. People change over time.

 

Why do you think Salvatore was all serious in 3? His experience with CJ way back in 1992 f*cked him up and he got paranoid. That's why after Claude did all that work for him he tries to kill Claude.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Zello

[Smash Bandicoot]

2 hours ago, Zello said:

Prequels man. People change over time.

 

Why do you think Salvatore was all serious in 3? His experience with CJ way back in 1992 f*cked him up and he got paranoid. That's why after Claude did all that work for him he tries to kill Claude.

The Caligula robbery is non canon to the GTA SA storyline, as it isn't required to beat the game, even then, he would've gotten over it 9 years later, there are no mentions from anybody of him being paranoid.

8 hours ago, KingAJ032304 said:

That last part with Chinatwon Wars I actually agree with but I think your making too big out of the characters f*ck ups. That's all they are... character f*cks ups. 

Too many of 'em.

[KingD19]

And like  how in the vice city introduction rock star goes “I mean since Vic is one of our least popular protagonist and it’s our game let’s just say that’s him that died “ .

its sad how some random idiotic npc with an over the type accent that vic didn’t even have was just thrown on to him .
 

And like how the Leone’s can’t even recognize Toni as an ally or enemy so they just ignore him in gameplay so you don’t even feel like an real Leone in free roam

 

1992 never happen to Salvatore it has never been mentioned ever again so it basically never existed.His  time in Las Ventura’s is just something we have to add theories to
 

I don’t think rock star is that big With protagonist cross over that’s why only Claude had an appearance in SA because he’s just mute all you need to do is make an model and make him do body gestures.
 

Even the whole 3D and HD universe thing doesn’t make sense if you didn’t feel like paying all the previous voice actor alot of money to return just say that because if it was we a brand new universe make it completely new like new cities names ,cars Everything 

[billiejoearmstrong8]

3 hours ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

The Caligula robbery is non canon to the GTA SA storyline, as it isn't required to beat the game

 

This doesn't mean it's non canon

[Smash Bandicoot]

2 minutes ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

This doesn't mean it's non canon

Proof?

[billiejoearmstrong8]

Just now, Smash Bandicoot said:

Proof?

It happens in the game, and missions that you'd agree are "canon" lead up to it. Why else would they set it up? I think any mission they decide to include in the game is canon, I don't know what the reasoning for it not being required to complete the main story meaning it doesn't count is. Just because it might happen after the rest of the missions doesn't mean it didn't happen, the characters still exist after the main story. 

 

[Smash Bandicoot]

Just now, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

It happens in the game, and missions that you'd agree are "canon" lead up to it. Why else would they set it up? I think any mission they decide to include in the game is canon, I don't know what the reasoning for it not being required to complete the main story meaning it doesn't count is. Just because it might happen after the rest of the missions doesn't mean it didn't happen, the characters still exist after the main story. 

 

When is it lead up to? Salvatore most likely leaves LV by the time CJ is fighting Ballas again.

[Copcaller]

The writing In LCS is a mess I'd say Salvatore acts the way he does due to stress he's in multiple gang wars, Maria is f*cking the whole town and CJ robbed him blind. Vance has always been a man child 

 

As for Miguel idk the plot requires him to survive maybe the paramedics patched him up after you shot him. It's not exactly unheard of people to survive multiple gunshot wounds.

 

[billiejoearmstrong8]

2 hours ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

When is it lead up to? Salvatore most likely leaves LV by the time CJ is fighting Ballas again.

You do a whole load of missions to prepare for it. It's clearly part of the game/story. Just because you can do it later doesn't take away from that. 

[Smash Bandicoot]

26 minutes ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

You do a whole load of missions to prepare for it. It's clearly part of the game/story. Just because you can do it later doesn't take away from that. 

It isn't, those missions are also optional and are never mentioned.

[billiejoearmstrong8]

Just now, Smash Bandicoot said:

It isn't, those missions are also optional and are never mentioned.

But they're still in the game, presented for you to play lol. I don't know why only the core storyline would be considered canon. Like I understand not considering things like going on a big shootout/rampage in freeplay as canon but if they put a mission in the game for you to play it is canon imo

[Smash Bandicoot]

1 minute ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

But they're still in the game, presented for you to play lol. I don't know why only the core storyline would be considered canon. Like I understand not considering things like going on a big shootout/rampage in freeplay as canon but if they put a mission in the game for you to play it is canon imo

So, that would make the Deal ending canon just because it exists? you are desperate and ignorant.

[billiejoearmstrong8]

Just now, Smash Bandicoot said:

So, that would make the Deal ending canon just because it exists? you are desperate and ignorant.

If they decide to include an option of an ending in a game that ending is canon yes. If only one ending is canon it completely defeats the purpose of including more than one option/giving the player the choice. If they only want one ending to be canon they must only include one ending.

 

This doesn't even go as far as that though. CJ robbing the casino doesn't conflict with anything else. They wrote it into the game/his story, and it's also required to complete the game 100%. Because he can optionally do it after going back to Los Santos and sorting stuff out doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

[Smash Bandicoot]

2 minutes ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

If they decide to include an option of an ending in a game that ending is canon yes. If only one ending is canon it completely defeats the purpose of including more than one option/giving the player the choice. If they only want one ending to be canon they must only include one ending.

 

This doesn't even go as far as that though. CJ robbing the casino doesn't conflict with anything else. They wrote it into the game/his story, and it's also required to complete the game 100%. Because he can optionally do it after going back to Los Santos and sorting stuff out doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

Why would Packie be in Los Santos then? 100%s are also 100% non canon, you're just trying to prove me wrong because you feel like it.

[Grotti Vigilante]

The continuity of the series isn't as bad as you're making out. 

 

20 hours ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

What the f*ck is going on? what games are canon to each other? are there even any games canon to eachother? are the Stories duo even canon to 3, VC, and SA?

The in-game canon is based on the universe. GTA III, Vice City, San Andreas, Advance, Liberty City Stories and Vice City Stories are all canon to the 3D Universe. Meanwhile, GTA IV, it's DLC, Chinatown Wars, and GTA V are canon of the HD universe. It's that simple really, and it's not like the separate universes is a little known fact. Most of the fans of the series know by now which universe canon is which and what games tie into the others.

 

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Lance and Salvatore and less serious and more childish, Donald Love is a cannibalistic maniac instead of a calm business man,

Lance was always somewhat childish, that's very much in his character, but Salvatore was certainly not a childish individual at any point in the series as far as I remember. As for Donald Love, being a cannibal isn't contradictory to his established character. He's one of the most evil individuals in the GTA series, and being a cannibal does not mean he can't be a calm business man at the same time. He was different in LCS, and I never understood why, but people can change within a three-year time period, and that in itself is not an issue of continuity more so than it is character writing and development.

 

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there is an entire hill and tunnel to the north of Portland instead of a bay that has a ferry,

As it was established in LCS, the Porter Tunnel was under construction, and by 2001 in GTA III the project was very much finished. The ferry strike between islands became the reason as to why you were locked in Portland for the start of the game, and by GTA III they were made redundant. This again isn't a hidden fact. It's known to anyone who pays even the most basic attention to the game's storyline. 

 

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Diaz is somehow the exact opposite of how he is in VC,

How is he the exact opposite? Diaz was having Vic help establish himself as the city's criminal kingpin, and that's exactly what he was by Vice City. Personality wise he may have been more angry and unpredictable, but narcotics can do serious stuff to people, and that is most especially if you are surrounded by people in the GTA criminal underworld such as the one who was stealing 3% of his money. But still, Diaz was not the exact opposite individual between the games he was featured in.

 

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Victor and Toni and completely different people from the ones in 3 and VC,

Victor was hardly presented to us in Vice City, so we can't talk about how he's different as a character. He doesn't look drastically different either. As for Toni, he was now an established mobster who didn't need to do the work of a foot soldier, and he had obviously gained weight, which can make some people look very different than when they were thinner. But there is still no major gaping inconsistencies between the characters from what I remember of them.

 

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Miguel literally bleeds to death, yet in GTA 3 he is all fine and dandy

This is somewhat of a polthole, but Miguel may just as well have survived and been patched up. Since we don't know how the rest of the mission went down we can't say for certain what happened, and this is the inconsistency that holds the most merit in your post.

 

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the Sindaccos are nonexistent in GTA 3 and it can't be extinction, since the Forelis literally got all their bases and got extinct yet appear in GTA 3, and so on with the complete, unexplainable nonsense,

Where did the Sindaccos appear in GTA III? You seem to be contradicting yourself here too by saying they are non-existent in GTA III yet appear in the same game. When? Give us an example of what you mean so I can address your point better.

 

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same with GTA 4 and the 3 HD era LC games, Johnny looks COMPLETELY different,

No he doesn't. His character model is different, most especially with clothing, between GTA IV and TLAD, but he's not unrecognisable at all. Saying he looks completely different would imply that you'd easily mistake him for someone else. It's like saying someone with a buzzcut and a blue shirt looks completely different just because they go bald and have a pink shirt, but even then the differences in physical description is greater.

 

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NONE of the characters who are DLC exclusive have an LCPD Database profile, not even in patches,

What do you even mean here? If a character doesn't have a database could that not just mean they haven't been caught or convicted? What characters are you even on about? 

 

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Bulgarin now has a right hand man for no reason whatsoever,

Again, there is no reason for him to not have one, and it is not contradictory whatsoever for him to have one. So what if we didn't see him in GTA IV, having a right-hand man is not an unreasonable addition to The Ballad of Gay Tony. While you may argue that he did appear out of nowhere, there was still nothing to suggest that he didn't have one, so you most certainly can't present it as a continuity error. If he was implied to be a loner criminal it would be, but he was a criminal underworld boss, so it very much isn't.

 

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there are literal timeline paradoxes with Elizabeta and Billy Grey,

Which paradoxes?

 

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and don't even get me started on Chinatown Wars, that game is the least canon you could possible get, so WTF is going on?

What do you even mean by least canon? I've not played Chinatown Wars, but it is just as canon to the HD universe as any other installment.

 

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did Rockstar overdose while making the timeline?

No, for the most part you just either misunderstood, didn't have enough research done on the matter, or just wasn't paying enough attention. Maybe all three. But either way, most of your points made don't prove anything and are very easily explained.

 

I'd like to also address the idea of the casino heist in San Andreas. Just because it's not part of the main story doesn't mean it isn't canon, and the only reason it's debatable is because we've not had full confirmation as to whether or not it is canon. There is nothing to suggest it isn't, and as long as there isn't any evidence stacked against one side or the other it's merely a matter of being unknown. I'd also like to address the following points below.

 

11 hours ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

The Caligula robbery is non canon to the GTA SA storyline, as it isn't required to beat the game, even then, he would've gotten over it 9 years later, there are no mentions from anybody of him being paranoid.

There is no evidence to support your claim that it isn't canon. Also, the mission in which you tail Curly Bob in GTA III does confirm that Salvatore is paranoid, and Salvatore in LCS even acknowledges that he is paranoid in the cutscene of "Driving Mr. Leone". This pretty much suggests the opposite and that the casino heist is more likely to be canon to San Andreas and the wider 3D universe storyline. You may think he'd have gotten over it, but he clearly didn't, and for good reason too. So if anything, there is a lot more to suggest the casino heist is canon even if it isn't explicitly confirmed by Rockstar.

 

3 hours ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

But they're still in the game, presented for you to play lol. I don't know why only the core storyline would be considered canon. Like I understand not considering things like going on a big shootout/rampage in freeplay as canon but if they put a mission in the game for you to play it is canon imo

3 hours ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

So, that would make the Deal ending canon just because it exists? you are desperate and ignorant.

Your response to the post made was not a fair comparison, because the deal ending is one of two possible canon endings to GTA IV. The true canon ending is not established, and Rockstar have very much chosen not to build off either one. It's why characters like Roman or Kate won't appear again unless Rockstar want to confirm that one ending is the true ending by having them appear. But to make the argument that the deal ending is canon is just as valid as the argument that the revenge ending is canon. It isn't official fact, so it's not technically correct to suggest either one is canon. But in terms of player interpretation and in-game lore, it could be either one. I'd only merely argue that these multiple endings need to go away just so we can have an established canon ending rather than one that is down to the player's choice and interpretation. 

 

3 hours ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

Why would Packie be in Los Santos then? 100%s are also 100% non canon, you're just trying to prove me wrong because you feel like it.

Packie could be in Los Santos for whatever reasons. He is seen during the credits of The Ballad of Gay Tony getting out of a taxi at Francis International Airport, suggesting he was going to leave Liberty City regardless of which ending you picked in GTA IV. Also, there is nothing wrong with someone wanting to prove you wrong because they feel like it, most especially when most of your points don't stand on any firm ground. It honestly seems to me that most of your arguments stem from an ignorance of the universe timeline and lore rather than any genuine mistakes on Rockstar's behalf. Pretty much every point you made can be easily explained. The only good point you made was about Miguel, who still could somewhat be explained, but I'm more than happy to acknowledge that as possible continuity error, but also just a possible plot hole and loose end that hadn't been filled. 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Grotti Vigilante

[Smash Bandicoot]

2 hours ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

Lance was always somewhat childish, that's very much in his character, but Salvatore was certainly not a childish individual at any point in the series as far as I remember. As for Donald Love, being a cannibal isn't contradictory to his established character. He's one of the most evil individuals in the GTA series, and being a cannibal does not mean he can't be a calm business man at the same time. He was different in LCS, and I never understood why, but people can change within a three-year time period, and that in itself is not an issue of continuity more so than it is character writing and development.

 

Yes, Lance always had childishness in him, but not the point where he yells and dances every 2 seconds, infact, he should be even weirder in VC, since he had a drug addiction for 2 years straight and is living with his brother like a pussy, Salvatore acted more comedic in GTA LCS than in San Andreas or 3, he kept trash talking along with being overly greedy and weird, I know that he can change, but I forgot to address even weirder things about him, first of all, at the end of LCS, he leaves Liberty City for good, if he were to return, then thousands of Miguels would murder him before even existing the Airport, he also owns Catalina's mansion for some f*cking reason, secondly, his voice is completely different, he now has this program type relaxing voice instead of a generic one, which is weird and out of place, and also there's the final nail in the coffin, I don't think ANYONE would accept him or work for him at all after the damage he had done to the city 3 years prior, infact, they wouldn't even have a chance to jail him, since the Cartel would bust him to bits, yet despite that, in GTA 3, he owns many businesses, is a trained martial artist, and has a good reputation despite robbing and eating a f*cking undercover cop's corpse, just doesn't make sense at all.

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As it was established in LCS, the Porter Tunnel was under construction, and by 2001 in GTA III the project was very much finished. The ferry strike between islands became the reason as to why you were locked in Portland for the start of the game, and by GTA III they were made redundant. This again isn't a hidden fact. It's known to anyone who pays even the most basic attention to the game's storyline. 

OK, I know that, but how the f*ck would a random hill be in the place of that bay? you tell me, there is LITERALLY nothing to make sense out of that, they would've also needed to cut a portion of the bay's landmass in order for the bridge to continue construction, I have no idea WTF Rockstar was smoking.

[Smash Bandicoot]

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Victor was hardly presented to us in Vice City, so we can't talk about how he's different as a character. He doesn't look drastically different either. As for Toni, he was now an established mobster who didn't need to do the work of a foot soldier, and he had obviously gained weight, which can make some people look very different than when they were thinner. But there is still no major gaping inconsistencies between the characters from what I remember of them.

From the 10 seconds he is onscreen in, he is already FAR from being Vic, he somehow has hair, even show in VCS his head was shinier than a diamond and there was ABSOLUTELY no traces of hair left, yet in Vice City, he is now Dr. Neo Cortex, horray! he has gained weight for literally no reason whatsoever, he broke his biggest f*cking promise in his entire life and joined the drug trade for no reason at all, he has a COMPLETELY different voice, not only is it different, he has a heavy accent for literally no reason at all, and most of all, his skin color and ethnicity is not even the same, instead of being dark brown skinned like his brother, he now has a lighter brown skin, yeah, and you're telling me this is the same f*cking individual? what type of ecstasy are you on? and regarding Toni, there was no reason he was done as a mobster, he just sat down in front of his Ma and ate Lobster, that's it, he also is now 20 years older for some f*cking reason, explain that.

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This is somewhat of a polthole, but Miguel may just as well have survived and been patched up. Since we don't know how the rest of the mission went down we can't say for certain what happened, and this is the inconsistency that holds the most merit in your post.

Yes, patched up, as if he is a doll or some sh*t, he is somehow alive after getting shot by both the mafia and the police, getting stepped on, dropping unconscious to the floor and leaving a massive pool of blood, and potentially getting rammed, yeah, like he was ever gonna have a chance at surviving that, as opposed to Victor, who doesn't bleed at all, yet somehow dies.

[Smash Bandicoot]

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Where did the Sindaccos appear in GTA III? You seem to be contradicting yourself here too by saying they are non-existent in GTA III yet appear in the same game. When? Give us an example of what you mean so I can address your point better. 

What the f*ck did I contradict? I said Sindaccos are literally nonexistent in GTA 3, which they are, and despite the failures and heavy damages of the Forelis they still appear in GTA 3, they suffered WAY more damage than the Sindaccos.

[Zello]

1 hour ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

, I know that he can change, but I forgot to address even weirder things about him, first of all, at the end of LCS, he leaves Liberty City for good, if he were to return, then thousands of Miguels would murder him before even existing the Airport, he also owns Catalina's mansion for some f*cking reason, secondly, his voice is completely different, he now has this program type relaxing voice instead of a generic one, which is weird and out of place, and also there's the final nail in the coffin, I don't think ANYONE would accept him or work for him at all after the damage he had done to the city 3 years prior, infact, they wouldn't even have a chance to jail him, since the Cartel would bust him to bits, yet despite that, in GTA 3, he owns many businesses, is a trained martial artist, and has a good reputation despite robbing and eating a f*cking undercover cop's corpse, just doesn't make sense at all.

 

 

The Cartel took over his house. We don't know where he went but I'm assuming wherever he went he got his life sorted out and met the oriental gentleman it made him become a more serious businessman and got control over his cannibalism problem.

 

Also just because the Cartel is after him doesn't mean anything. Love has money I'm assuming he lives in the Love Media building now just like how Donald Trump lived in Trump tower. Because he owns the building no one is going to come in or out that he doesn't allow in and he probably has a lot of security.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Zello

[billiejoearmstrong8]

14 hours ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

Why would Packie be in Los Santos then? 100%s are also 100% non canon, you're just trying to prove me wrong because you feel like it.

Why wouldn't he be? In both endings he doesn't have much reason to stay in LC. Either way his brother who led the gang is in prison, the brother he's left with is either a cop he's estranged from or a useless addict, only one of the other remaining gang members is alive (as Michael was killed robbing the bank), and Kate being around or not doesn't make much difference since she isn't involved in that stuff and doesn't need him. Most of the other people/gangs he worked for are dead or finished too (Ray Boccino, Elizabeta). His gang/business in LC is pretty much finished either way so, as he talked about wanting to do, he finally leaves the city to try somewhere new. You see him going to the airport to leave in the end credits of TBOGT, it's already established at the end of the IV/EFLC story.

 

I'm trying to prove you wrong because I think you're wrong lol. The stuff they choose to put in the game and tell you to do is canon. And there's no point in giving the player the choice of different endings unless they're all canon/which one is canon is your choice. And future games should reflect that by having storylines that work with whichever choices you made (for example it would've been stupid if Roman or Kate or a character you had the option of killing or sparing like Ivan showed up as a character in GTA V).

Edited July 7, 2020 by billiejoearmstrong8

[Smash Bandicoot]

59 minutes ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

Why wouldn't he be? In both endings he doesn't have much reason to stay in LC. Either way his brother who led the gang is in prison, the brother he's left with is either a cop he's estranged from or a useless addict, only one of the other remaining gang members is alive (as Michael was killed robbing the bank), and Kate being around or not doesn't make much difference since she isn't involved in that stuff and doesn't need him. Most of the other people/gangs he worked for are dead or finished too (Ray Boccino, Elizabeta). His gang/business in LC is pretty much finished either way so, as he talked about wanting to do, he finally leaves the city to try somewhere new. You see him going to the airport to leave in the end credits of TBOGT, it's already established at the end of the IV/EFLC story.

 

I'm trying to prove you wrong because I think you're wrong lol. The stuff they choose to put in the game and tell you to do is canon. And there's no point in giving the player the choice of different endings unless they're all canon/which one is canon is your choice. And future games should reflect that by having storylines that work with whichever choices you made (for example it would've been stupid if Roman or Kate or a character you had the option of killing or sparing like Ivan showed up as a character in GTA V).

You're forgetting about one major thing, man, HIS MOM, there would literally be no one to take care of her, all his siblings are either dead, drunk somewhere else, or imprisoned, there would be literally no one to take care of her unless she's dead, and the only way that would happen is through grief and old age, since Kate dies, she ends up grieving to death, so Packie leaves, as he has nothing left in LC.

7 hours ago, Zello said:

 

 

The Cartel took over his house. We don't know where he went but I'm assuming wherever he went he got his life sorted out and met the oriental gentleman it made him become a more serious businessman and got control over his cannibalism problem.

 

Also just because the Cartel is after him doesn't mean anything. Love has money I'm assuming he lives in the Love Media building now just like how Donald Trump lived in Trump tower. Because he owns the building no one is going to come in or out that he doesn't allow in and he probably has a lot of security.

Money doesn't mean much, as the Cartel still want him dead regardless, and they do still want him dead in GTA 3, no one would ever want to accept a man who destroyed an entire city district, killed his ex-boss and an undercover cop then ate their corpses, do insane sh*t just so he can become mayor, etc, I just don't see how anyone would want this guy on the run again.

[Zello]

10 minutes ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

You're forgetting about one major thing, man, HIS MOM, there would literally be no one to take care of her, all his siblings are either dead, drunk somewhere else, or imprisoned, there would be literally no one to take care of her unless she's dead, and the only way that would happen is through grief and old age, since Kate dies, she ends up grieving to death, so Packie leaves, as he has nothing left in LC.

Kate could also be alive and takes care of his mom. Giving Packie the freedom to move to Los Santos. Gerald is in prison, Francis/Derrick are dead and even if they weren't they don't really come across as the I'll take care of my mom type.

 

In Revenge he calls Niko and tells him he's all that he's all his Ma's got left. Why would he leave to another city just after that? Also in V he doesn't mention if his mom is dead so I'm assuming she's still alive by 2013.

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Zello

[Grotti Vigilante]

9 hours ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

Yes, Lance always had childishness in him, but not the point where he yells and dances every 2 seconds, infact, he should be even weirder in VC, since he had a drug addiction for 2 years straight and is living with his brother like a pussy,

Lance living with Vic for two years may just as well have gotten that dancing phase out of him, but he’s still the same neurotic, insecure and self-centred individual. Remember, he seems cool at the start but the shell quickly breaks when he starts calling Tommy and going I’m about he was patronised all his life and treated like a child. Perhaps there was good reason for that, most especially with the fact everyone has to act like a parent or older brother with him, be it with Vic needing to constantly get them out of trouble or Tommy needing to save him from his rash decision to kill Diaz. The dancing is a minor part of his character that still doesn’t contradict previously established lore. 

 

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Salvatore acted more comedic in GTA LCS than in San Andreas or 3, he kept trash talking along with being overly greedy and weird,

He’s always had some degree of humour in his character, but when did he do any of what you’ve stated? 
 

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I know that he can change, but I forgot to address even weirder things about him, first of all, at the end of LCS, he leaves Liberty City for good, if he were to return, then thousands of Miguels would murder him before even existing the Airport, he also owns Catalina's mansion for some f*cking reason, secondly, his voice is completely different, he now has this program type relaxing voice instead of a generic one, which is weird and out of place, and also there's the final nail in the coffin, I don't think ANYONE would accept him or work for him at all after the damage he had done to the city 3 years prior, infact, they wouldn't even have a chance to jail him, since the Cartel would bust him to bits, yet despite that, in GTA 3, he owns many businesses, is a trained martial artist, and has a good reputation despite robbing and eating a f*cking undercover cop's corpse, just doesn't make sense at all.

Donald Love owning the mansion isn’t a continuity error for heaven’s sake. We saw it get seized by the cartel, and from that point on it was theirs. Once again as well, if you paid attention to the storyline, you’d know that the cartel were going to kill him UNLESS he stayed quiet and paid them off, and it’s clear that he didn’t. While in the game the Colombian cartel may be powerful, they won’t be constantly sitting at the airport waiting for him to come back, and as such he could’ve easily slipped back into Liberty City. But then at the very start of GTA III, it seems they have found out and want their money they believe he owes them. At the very start of the game they kidnap the old oriental gentlemen from the police convoy and hold him hostage so they can extort money from Donald Love, and then they tried to seize a package he was after, hoping it’d be worth something since he wanted it badly enough and therefore had plans to either sell it and claim the money, or hold it as a ransom until he paid them back. Then finally later in the game he just mysteriously disappeared. Since we don’t know what happened, it’s possible that he was assassinated, or more likely went on the run again without telling anyone, most especially not Claude, a man who he knows has no loyalties and will betray people for the right price. 

 

I don’t see why anyone would refuse to work with him either. He’s a corrupt corporate individual who has money to pay off officials. Also, nobody knows that he was the one who gave the order to destroy Fort Staunton, and the news report very much confirms that the Forellis are the top suspects. But even so, why wouldn’t a protagonist work for him? They’re not exactly the most morally just individuals, and as long as he pays them for their work and serves their interest, they won’t care about working for him. 

Love owning many businesses is not a new development since GTA III, he was a millionaire before then in LCS. He owns Love Media, a media conglomerate, and was involved in real estate. I don’t see how you could miss that. Also he’s not really trained in martial arts, he does a little bit of Tai Chi, and even so it does not take more than three years to start any form of training. It certainly didn’t take me that long to start and get good. As for eating corpses, that’s an issue of “skeletons in the closet”, which basically means that it’s a discreditable fact he wants to be kept a secret. So why is it so hard to believe for you that nobody knows about it?
 

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OK, I know that, but how the f*ck would a random hill be in the place of that bay? you tell me, there is LITERALLY nothing to make sense out of that, they would've also needed to cut a portion of the bay's landmass in order for the bridge to continue construction, I have no idea WTF Rockstar was smoking.

Tunnels need land to dig through, and the landmass around it would change in order to accommodate its construction. It makes perfect sense that land would’ve been artificially modified so the tunnel could emerge in the Portland end, and in this case it would’ve been that hill, likely created with the land dug from tunnel construction and stacked on top of it. If that doesn’t make sense to you, then I don’t know what will.
 

9 hours ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

From the 10 seconds he is onscreen in, he is already FAR from being Vic, he somehow has hair, even show in VCS his head was shinier than a diamond and there was ABSOLUTELY no traces of hair left, yet in Vice City, he is now Dr. Neo Cortex, horray! he has gained weight for literally no reason whatsoever,

 

Are you that nit-picky that you can’t believe that between 1984 and 1986, Vic grew out his hair but suffered issues of baldness? Vic wasn’t bald in VCS, he just had an army-issue shaved head, a style he would not need to retain after dismissal, and even then he had a receding hairline from what you could see of it. There’s no reason to even believe he didn’t or couldn’t have gained weight in that two years either, and the fact you’re using that to support the idea of a continuity error is ludicrous. Seriously, just stop clutching at the straws, please.
 

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he broke his biggest f*cking promise in his entire life and joined the drug trade for no reason at all, he has a COMPLETELY different voice, not only is it different, he has a heavy accent for literally no reason at all, and most of all, his skin color and ethnicity is not even the same, instead of being dark brown skinned like his brother, he now has a lighter brown skin, yeah, and you're telling me this is the same f*cking individual?

I’m on mobile so I can’t get the pictures up, but you can compare his look in Vice City and Vice City Stories, and you will be able to see a resemblance. They are not drastically different looking characters even if Rockstar didn’t plan to have him become a protagonist. That’s the reason his voice actor is different too.

 

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and regarding Toni, there was no reason he was done as a mobster, he just sat down in front of his Ma and ate Lobster, that's it, he also is now 20 years older for some f*cking reason, explain that.

Of course there was a reason! The entire story of LCS is the Leones gaining power, and Toni was largely the one who did it. As capo of the Leones and a made man, that is more than enough of a reason for him to not take part in foot soldier work. Also, he has to keep some degree of distance to make sure the LCPD can’t prove his business and he himself is linked to Salvatore Leone.

 

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Yes, patched up, as if he is a doll or some sh*t, he is somehow alive after getting shot by both the mafia and the police, getting stepped on, dropping unconscious to the floor and leaving a massive pool of blood, and potentially getting rammed, yeah, like he was ever gonna have a chance at surviving that, as opposed to Victor, who doesn't bleed at all, yet somehow dies.

Human endurance can go a long way, and you’d be surprised what a bit of adrenaline can get you through. That’s the only thing to suggests his survival, but as has been acknowledged already, this can be seen as a plot hole and continuity error.
 

9 hours ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

What the f*ck did I contradict? I said Sindaccos are literally nonexistent in GTA 3, which they are, and despite the failures and heavy damages of the Forelis they still appear in GTA 3, they suffered WAY more damage than the Sindaccos.

The way you phrased your original quote suggested you were talking about the Sindaccos. Since you meant the Forelli family I can address that point by saying that they were heavily dwindled by GTA III and became known as the Forelli Brothers, suggesting they are no longer a family, or so dwindled that you couldn’t even call them one. 
 

9 hours ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

what type of ecstasy are you on?

I saved this particular quote for last because the very fact you even said this at any point is very telling. It’s clear to me now that your whole point of this thread is to complain about something, which would be fine if your points held any ground. But they don’t. Most of them just stemmed from your basic lack of understanding of events, likely because you paid so little attention to things. To admit you made a mistake would’ve been fine, or even to just ignore us would’ve been better if you truly believed you were still right, but I’ve now got a good enough reason to believe, not just based on this quote, but on how you’ve spoken to other users, that you really aren’t interested in proper discussion and just want someone to confirm your narrative. So really at this point I don’t see why any of us should bother trying if I’m honest.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Grotti Vigilante

[billiejoearmstrong8]

44 minutes ago, Smash Bandicoot said:

You're forgetting about one major thing, man, HIS MOM, there would literally be no one to take care of her, all his siblings are either dead, drunk somewhere else, or imprisoned, there would be literally no one to take care of her unless she's dead, and the only way that would happen is through grief and old age, since Kate dies, she ends up grieving to death, so Packie leaves, as he has nothing left in LC.

 

She might've got a carer, moved to a nursing home, or not even have been at the point of needing to be cared for yet. The reason he had to look after her during some points of the game was because one of her sons/daughters had just been killed. TBOGT ends a little while after IV/Kate's potential death so there was time for the grieving period to be over, and it was never implied that she needed full time care besides when she was grieving. Alternatively she might've died of old age, regardless of whether Kate died or not. Just because someone has an elderly parent doesn't mean they can never leave their city. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by billiejoearmstrong8

[Smash Bandicoot]

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He’s always had some degree of humour in his character, but when did he do any of what you’ve stated? 

No, he hasn't, and all that happened in LCS, duh.

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I don’t see why anyone would refuse to work with him either. He’s a corrupt corporate individual who has money to pay off officials. Also, nobody knows that he was the one who gave the order to destroy Fort Staunton, and the news report very much confirms that the Forellis are the top suspects. But even so, why wouldn’t a protagonist work for him? They’re not exactly the most morally just individuals, and as long as he pays them for their work and serves their interest, they won’t care about working for him. 

I'm saying ANY normal person, it's shocking he never went to prison or was hated by the public for his actions.

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Tunnels need land to dig through, and the landmass around it would change in order to accommodate its construction. It makes perfect sense that land would’ve been artificially modified so the tunnel could emerge in the Portland end, and in this case it would’ve been that hill, likely created with the land dug from tunnel construction and stacked on top of it. If that doesn’t make sense to you, then I don’t know what will.

Was technology even that much advanced back then? also, in the order for the tunnel to work, it would've had to be for the most part completely submerged underwater, and I have no idea how they would've managed to pull that off.