Are game critics even trustworthy anymore?

[Badman_]

GTA V is another example of an expensive and hyped game being overprised. Critics were probably too scared to give less than a positive score (or they just didn't care enough).

 

The same happened with GTA IV. It's the best reviewed game of the PS3/360 generation. Some critics even said the story was "Oscar worthy". We know IV is great but is far from being that perfect.

[Ducard]

2 hours ago, Niobium said:

i struggle to find a review from a mainstream game critic that talks in depth about the dumbed-down physics, the overly aggressive AI, the annoying wanted level system, the lack of interiors, the mediocre melee combat, etc. most of them talk about how the game world is just so "big and open with lots to do" and how the writing and satire is so "brilliant".

 

 

Well that is your opinion.  It could also be that none of the things that you listed bothered game reviewers enough to cite it as an actual valid criticism. Moreover, it could be that the open world itself was so good, that they felt the pros simply outweighed some of the cons you listed. (which are still entirely subjective, I never found any of the things you listed to be a problem in V)

 

In that case, I could also struggle to find a mainstream game critic that did not criticize GTA IV for having a lack of customization, significantly less features than San Andreas, lack of variety of in weapons, removal of paramedic missions and so on. All these were and still are major criticisms of GTA IV to this day, Again, it's all because this is a matter of opinion. None of these "downsides" actually affected my personal view of GTA IV, and I'm sure it was the same for critics at the time. The same could be said for GTA V.

 

2 hours ago, Niobium said:

 

@Ducard no one is arguing that IV wasn't disappointing to many fans too. your whataboutism is just bizarre. not once have i ever said that GTA V was disappointing to the PUBLIC. but V was still disappointing as sh*t to many long-time fans of the series who play GTA regularly. anecdotes about your friends and large sales numbers don't change that. 

 

 

Ah so you do agree that IV was disappointing to many fans of the series at the time. If that's the case why didn't you list GTA IV as an example in your original post rather than GTA V? As a matter of fact, IV is rated higher than V by critics and received way more backlash than V at release so by your logic, it's a way more apt example for this topic than V. (And still a bad example mind you, I'm just going by your logic here)

 

Also how exactly did you gather this data that V was disappointing to "long-time fans"? What exactly constitutes a long time fan? Does anyone who automatically criticize V fall into the "long time fan" category? Should the opinions of people who enjoyed V but didn't play previous games be discarded? As someone already pointed out, critics are meant to review the game for the public and not give into biases of a particular fanbase so I'm not sure what point you are making here.

 

For the record, I live in a country where GTA is very very popular. Almost everyone I know who enjoyed V has been playing GTA since the days of San Andreas and Vice City. (Thus being "long time fans" as you put it), so again it goes against your analysis that most long time fans of the series found it disappointing. 

 

You found V disappointing, that's totally fine. You are entitled to your opinion and I don't really care if you don't like the game. That being said, trying to change public perception to suit your opinion is objectively wrong.

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Ducard

[Niobium]

5 hours ago, Ducard said:

 

Well that is your opinion.  It could also be that none of the things that you listed bothered game reviewers enough to cite it as an actual valid criticism. Moreover, it could be that the open world itself was so good, that they felt the pros simply outweighed some of the cons you listed. (which are still entirely subjective, I never found any of the things you listed to be a problem in V)

 

 

give me a break. a reviewer's job is to try to present every single pro and con of a game, right? a more honest review would actually let you know about these flaws even if it gives the game a very high score. something like

 

"in conclusion, rockstar's re-imagining of los santos is open and beautiful, and there are various ways you can mess around in the sandbox. the 3 protagonists are all unique and diverse, and being able to switch each character on the fly during free roam and see them living out their lives is quite an innovative mechanic. but it must be noted that sometimes the satire can be a little bit too over-the-top and in-your-face, even for a GTA game. 9.2/10"

 

or how about

 

"GTA V is a brilliant open world game that will be played by many people for years to come, however some of mechanics and features have been altered in a way that may be alienating to older fans of the series."

 

a review meant for the public instead of GTA nerds shouldn't mean "blindly praising this game like it's god's greatest creation on earth".

 

some of your post is more GTA IV whataboutism, i won't even bother to refute it.

 

6 hours ago, Ducard said:

Also how exactly did you gather this data that V was disappointing to "long-time fans"? What exactly constitutes a long time fan? Does anyone who automatically criticize V fall into the "long time fan" category? Should the opinions of people who enjoyed V but didn't play previous games be discarded? As someone already pointed out, critics are meant to review the game for the public and not give into biases of a particular fanbase so I'm not sure what point you are making here.

 

uhh, what? long-time fans just means long-time fans. it's not rocket science. why are we even having this discussion?

 

the rest of your post is more anecdotal evidence. i'll pass.

[Ducard]

11 hours ago, Niobium said:

 

give me a break. a reviewer's job is to try to present every single pro and con of a game, right? a more honest review would actually let you know about these flaws even if it gives the game a very high score. something like

 

"in conclusion, rockstar's re-imagining of los santos is open and beautiful, and there are various ways you can mess around in the sandbox. the 3 protagonists are all unique and diverse, and being able to switch each character on the fly during free roam and see them living out their lives is quite an innovative mechanic. but it must be noted that sometimes the satire can be a little bit too over-the-top and in-your-face, even for a GTA game. 9.2/10"

 

or how about

 

"GTA V is a brilliant open world game that will be played by many people for years to come, however some of mechanics and features have been altered in a way that may be alienating to older fans of the series."

 

 

I'm an older fan of the series and I did not find it alienating. These opinions are quite subjective and it could be that they simply didn't find these to be a worthy enough. Yes, a reviewer is supposed to present both pros and cons of a video game, but at the end of the day, a reviewer is also a gamer just like the rest of us. They all have their own opinions and viewpoints.

 

11 hours ago, Niobium said:

some of your post is more GTA IV whataboutism, i won't even bother to refute it.

 

Why not? I think it's quite fair to bring up GTA IV. If you believe that video game reviewers are being a little lenient with their scores, then that is your opinion. But I find it odd that you bring up GTA V as an example for this topic and not GTA IV. You say reviewers should bring up every con of a game, if so why did no reviewer bring up the, say, lack of customization in GTA IV for instance?  And why didn't you include GTA IV in your original post as an example for critics being lenient with scores? I find your inconsistency a little hard to understand and the only explanation I can give is that you have an inherent bias against V.

 

11 hours ago, Niobium said:

uhh, what? long-time fans just means long-time fans. it's not rocket science. why are we even having this discussion?

 

the rest of your post is more anecdotal evidence. i'll pass.

 

On the contrary, I don't see you bring up factual evidence either. So I merely rebutted your ancedotal evidence with my personal observations. You still haven't answered my question, from where did you gather data that most long time fans of the series did not like GTA V? 

 

If you tell me it's based off that one video, I've already presented a counter argument to that matter.

 

The whole point of my argument is that you picked a bad example to show your sentiment against critics. If you're going to present GTA V, it's only fair you present GTA IV, although in my opinion neither of these are good examples for this topic.

[Niobium]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWVtZJo-HqI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9ZQKZPjIg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MONqEM8LOwE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2WNDSrf7Mo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdjjkLORTlE

 

 

don't be lazy man.... it's really not that hard to find comments like "DAE IV physics better?"

[Ducard]

On 12/24/2020 at 6:52 PM, Niobium said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWVtZJo-HqI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-9ZQKZPjIg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MONqEM8LOwE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2WNDSrf7Mo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdjjkLORTlE

 

 

don't be lazy man.... it's really not that hard to find comments like "DAE IV physics better?"

Again, you really are cherry picking videos to fit your narrative, this in no way backs up your argument. For instance let's look at videos where you can find many comments praising V:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkkoHAzjnUs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsBrkLq31eM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOnKkgw3E74

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UB5hpk0iqg

 

So, let's quickly go over the four videos. The first one is the GTA V trailer that has positive comments flowing in. Sure, there a few jokes about Rockstar milking it but nothing actually critical of the game itself. Lots of people talking about fond memories and how GTA V is still a really good open world game.

 

Then you have a GTA V vs Cyberpunk comparison video. Again, not only does the video impressively show a 2013 game going off against a 2020 game, it also has comments positively praising V. Again if the game was a big disappointment as you put it, wouldn't you expect to find atleast a few comments saying it was disappointing? It's just people talking about how great the game is and how it was a miracle to get it running on PS3/360.

 

In the third video, Nerd3, one of the most famous gaming channels back in the day talks about how awesome the game is. Keep in mind this was at the time of release. His video was very popular and got a ton of likes and appreciative comments. So it wasn't just his opinion. Of course, if the game was such a disappointment as you say, wouldn't you find people slaughtering him for praising GTA V? After all we know how fickle the internet community can be. 

 

The last one is the IGN review, which gave the game a 10/10. Yet, you don't find anyone complaining about the score. And trust me, IGN usually gets a lot of sh*t for their reviews, so, again, if the game was a big of a disappointment as you said, shouldn't you expect to find some highly rated disappointing comments atleast?

 

Add this to the fact that the game has a very good metacritic user score (and remember, metacritic is notorious for review bombing from trolls and such so an 8.4 is a great achievement) and the fact that the game is still talked about to this day, it shows that it was anything but a disappointment to the gaming community and indeed the fanbase itself.

 

As a matter of fact, I believe that every GTA game has been highly rated today. Even IV, which received flak at release, has garnered a steady uptick in appreciation after people realized how far behind other GTA "clones" were. And another point, just because someone liked IV better doesn't mean they found V to be disappointing or not a great game like you do. The two opinions aren't mutually exclusive. 

 

Once again, I don't like using youtube videos for evidence but since you seemed so determined to pick comments and videos that fit your narrative, I had to do the same. You know what are examples of games that are an actual disappointment on a large scale? Cyberpunk 2077, Fallout 76 and No mans sky. GTA V certainly isn't one of them and definitely is a horrible example to pick for this topic. 

Edited December 26, 2020 by Ducard

[TheSantader25]

Just a reminder that arguing with Niobium is practically pointless. The best thing you can hope for is him getting so pissed off at you that he ultimately blocks you. 

[Niobium]

8 hours ago, Ducard said:

Again, you really are cherry picking videos to fit your narrative, this in no way backs up your argument. For instance let's look at videos where you can find many comments praising V:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkkoHAzjnUs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsBrkLq31eM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOnKkgw3E74

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UB5hpk0iqg

 

So, let's quickly go over the four videos. The first one is the GTA V trailer that has positive comments flowing in. Sure, there a few jokes about Rockstar milking it but nothing actually critical of the game itself. Lots of people talking about fond memories and how GTA V is still a really good open world game.

 

Then you have a GTA V vs Cyberpunk comparison video. Again, not only does the video impressively show a 2013 game going off against a 2020 game, it also has comments positively praising V. Again if the game was a big disappointment as you put it, wouldn't you expect to find atleast a few comments saying it was disappointing? It's just people talking about how great the game is and how it was a miracle to get it running on PS3/360.

 

In the third video, Nerd3, one of the most famous gaming channels back in the day talks about how awesome the game is. Keep in mind this was at the time of release. His video was very popular and got a ton of likes and appreciative comments. So it wasn't just his opinion. Of course, if the game was such a disappointment as you say, wouldn't you find people slaughtering him for praising GTA V? After all we know how fickle the internet community can be. 

 

The last one is the IGN review, which gave the game a 10/10. Yet, you don't find anyone complaining about the score. And trust me, IGN usually gets a lot of sh*t for their reviews, so, again, if the game was a big of a disappointment as you said, shouldn't you expect to find some highly rated disappointing comments atleast?

 

Add this to the fact that the game has a very good metacritic user score (and remember, metacritic is notorious for review bombing from trolls and such so an 8.4 is a great achievement) and the fact that the game is still talked about to this day, it shows that it was anything but a disappointment to the gaming community and indeed the fanbase itself.

 

As a matter of fact, I believe that every GTA game has been highly rated today. Even IV, which received flak at release, has garnered a steady uptick in appreciation after people realized how far behind other GTA "clones" were. And another point, just because someone liked IV better doesn't mean they found V to be disappointing or not a great game like you do. The two opinions aren't mutually exclusive. 

 

Once again, I don't like using youtube videos for evidence but since you seemed so determined to pick comments and videos that fit your narrative, I had to do the same. You know what are examples of games that are an actual disappointment on a large scale? Cyberpunk 2077, Fallout 76 and No mans sky. GTA V certainly isn't one of them and definitely is a horrible example to pick for this topic. 

 

i never claimed that GTA V was disappointing on a large scale, like CP2077 or no man's sky. i only claimed that it was disappointing to SOME of the dedicated GTA fans. that said, this debate is exhausting me and we aren't going to change each other's minds so why don't we just end the discussion here.

 

6 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

Just a reminder that arguing with Niobium is practically pointless. The best thing you can hope for is him getting so pissed off at you that he ultimately blocks you. 

 

nope, i only block trolls. not "people who disagree with me"

[Ducard]

16 hours ago, Niobium said:

 

i never claimed that GTA V was disappointing on a large scale, i only claimed that it was disappointing to SOME of the dedicated GTA fans.

 

You literally said it in the original post as well as multiple times in the topic itself:

 

On 6/24/2020 at 10:12 PM, Niobium said:

there was GTA V.....  but a large portion of the GTA fanbase were disappointed and felt like the game did not live up to the previous games in the series

 

 

[Niobium]

4 minutes ago, Ducard said:

 

You literally said it in the original post as well as multiple times in the topic itself:

 

 

i was describing GTA fans, not the public as you were

[Ryo256]

22 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

Just a reminder that arguing with Niobium is practically pointless. 

Nah, Niobium is doing fine. But I must admit the point of the current argument is pretty.....pointless. Even if GTA V is a poor example, it's such a small thing to argue over.

 

[Zello]

 

This is a great video. Game reviewers are biased as hell.

[junkpile]

On 6/24/2020 at 6:42 PM, Niobium said:

i believe i have come to a point where i can no longer trust mainstream game critics. i think i lost count of the amount of times nearly every game critic praised or criticized a video game when the entire fanbase has the exact opposite reaction to that game.

 

let's start with a game like... mass effect 3. when mass effect 3 came out, almost every reviewer gave this game a positive score, but very few of them even mentioned the atrocious ending. the ending that was so bad that fans petitioned to get it changed and bioware was forced to make a patch that wasn't even enough to fix the ending's writing.

 

then there was GTA V. when this game first came out, nearly every game critic was treating this game like god's greatest gift to earth and giving this game near perfect scores. but a large portion of the GTA fanbase were disappointed and felt like the game did not live up to the previous games in the series such as GTA san andreas and GTA IV. (in fact, fans resentment of this game only grew as time went on, with sh*t like GTA online, forgetting about single player DLC, going after modders, and the announcement of the PS5 port)

 

fast forward to today, and we have the last of us 2 getting near perfect scores from mainstream game reviewers while the fanbase is hating on this game's story because of the poor pacing, treatment of fan favorite characters, bad ending.... what the hell is going on.

 

and now we have fans loving the new remaster of spongebob: battle for bikini bottom because it stays true to the original, while mainstream critics are criticizing this game for the very same reason. what the f*ck.

 

it seems like game critics aren't the only type of critics that aren't trustworthy anymore. i no longer trust film critics either. everyone loved the new joker movie while film critics did not. film critics heavily praised the newer star wars films while fans hated them.

 

for the record, i do not believe mainstream game critics are giving these kinds of reviews to "push an agenda" or "spread SJW propaganda" or whatever. that's bullsh*t. the reason for them giving positive scores to games everyone hates is quite simple: they've been "bribed" in a way. if they give a AAA mainsteam game a mediocre or negative review, then they will no longer receive copies from that publisher before the release date, they won't get invitations to their events, and the publisher won't buy ads on their site.

 

the only game critics i trust nowadays are the ones that aren't mainstream game websites. people like jim sterling, angry joe, and videogamedunkey are more trustworthy, because even when i disagree with them, AT LEAST they are honest with their opinion. but with mainstream game sites like IGN, gamespot, PC gamer, and others, they act less like reviewers and more like mindless shills for the mainstream AAA game they are praising.

 

What is a critic anyway, a human being like you n me giving their opinion on sth. 

How can someone decide for you other than yourself how valuable sth to you is. 

 

I for mine assumed there are somewhat reliable critics and myself looks what this gaming critic has to say.

If something is sh*t it's probably common they a majority says it's sh*t but then you got titles like Gta 5, RDR 2, Last of us 2, Cyberpunk 2077, etc. 

 

Titles that heavily polarize and there I see I can only trust my own senses. 

 

Gta 5 f. e. is a GTA 3 with more possibilities and better graphics, I mean gta online, this can be fun but ultimately is quite limited content wise. 

I for mine think story wise, character depth wise, it all went down after gta 4's zenith. 

 

Then these critics give it a high praise, same with Tlou 2, RDR 2, which are mediocre games at best

[sabitsuki]

I think the job of a game reviewer should be renamed to marketing reviewer since most 'reviews' out there are mostly based on bribes, first 10-minute impressions and advertising.

Edited April 12, 2021 by DownInThePMs

[Ryo256]

13 hours ago, Zello said:

 

This is a great video. Game reviewers are biased as hell.

Glad he also made the argument of how critics are more lenient on latest titles than a decade ago, even backing it with figures. Latest games are enjoying an inflated score whereas older games fought really hard to earn their place, building the hype that the said latest games in the series ride on.

[junkpile]

10 hours ago, DownInThePMs said:

I think the job of a game reviewer should be renamed to marketing reviewer since most 'reviews' out there are mostly based on bribes, first 10-minute impressions and advertising.

True dat. I love your avatar btw

[Bigglo145]

Dont understand why people pay attention to game reviewers, if you see a game that looks cool then try it lol understood that even as a kid

[Zello]

21 hours ago, DownInThePMs said:

I think the job of a game reviewer should be renamed to marketing reviewer since most 'reviews' out there are mostly based on bribes, first 10-minute impressions and advertising.

I hardly even pay attention to their scores. When I'm watching reviews I've already made my mind up and only watch them for the gameplay footage.

[The Tracker]

On 4/12/2021 at 5:45 AM, junkpile said:

 

What is a critic anyway, a human being like you n me giving their opinion on sth. 

How can someone decide for you other than yourself how valuable sth to you is. 

 

I for mine assumed there are somewhat reliable critics and myself looks what this gaming critic has to say.

If something is sh*t it's probably common they a majority says it's sh*t but then you got titles like Gta 5, RDR 2, Last of us 2, Cyberpunk 2077, etc. 

 

Titles that heavily polarize and there I see I can only trust my own senses. 

 

Gta 5 f. e. is a GTA 3 with more possibilities and better graphics, I mean gta online, this can be fun but ultimately is quite limited content wise. 

I for mine think story wise, character depth wise, it all went down after gta 4's zenith. 

 

Then these critics give it a high praise, same with Tlou 2, RDR 2, which are mediocre games at best

 

I mean, you're just like those critics, only you would put RDR2 and CP2077 in the same sentence 

[junkpile]

41 minutes ago, The Tracker said:

 

I mean, you're just like those critics, only you would put RDR2 and CP2077 in the same sentence 

Everyone got their own taste and to me these are mediocre games that give me nothing. 

If you like them that's good for you. 

Enjoy them all you want. 

You are the best critic of your own taste. 

How can someone else decide this for you? 

[Guest]

I haven't cared about critic reviews for many years now. Often they don't align with my personal view on games and I have enjoyed plenty of games that got a bad rep. I'd rather watch raw gameplay or streamers play it if I don't want to take a chance purchase.