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Zak Ras

George Floyd

Recommended Posts

Raavi
2 minutes ago, DEALUX said:

Do you base that on media reports, which by the way, are probably the most agenda driven and unreliable they've ever been, or are there some actual stats supporting this claim? I've seen some numbers that seem to contradict this.

I can back up every single claim I made in that post with academic literature and statistics. Black people make up only 13% of the US population yet represent 24% of deaths at the hands of police.

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sivispacem
45 minutes ago, Halal Cyborg said:

(something @sivispacemdid earlier I might add)

I note you failed to address my previous querying of this.

Can you point to where I "insulted" the poster in question?

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Halal Cyborg
14 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

I note you failed to address my previous querying of this.

Can you point to where I "insulted" the poster in question?

I felt saying he had his dick in hand and calling them ignorant was flaming personally...especially given their statement barely contained any malice and wasn’t exactly vitriolically hateful in any sense.

I personally wouldn’t address someone that way and even more so if in a position of power.

And the PBM banned again above merely quoted someone’s words...anyway I am responding to you as you asked but I’m not going to continue like a dog with a bone.

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DEALUX
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Raavi said:

I can back up every single claim I made in that post with academic literature and statistics. Black people make up only 13% of the US population yet represent 24% of deaths at the hands of police.

There are a lot of studies that contradict each other on the topic as seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_deadly_force_in_the_United_States

 

Blacks seem to commit a majority of some crimes and maybe you would argue that some of those arrests are unjustified but that still wouldn't account for the disparity unless you think 100% of the cops are racist or looking for black people to arrest. Of course, in any given case you could argue that a black victim of a police shooting was unjustifiably killed. I guess I'm unconvinced that I should always assume it's racism and not just plain old incompetence but I can definitely imagine cops viewing black suspects differently compared to whites and the resulting consequences of that. I think the reality is worse than what some people think. It's not overt racism. It's just the kind of biases that most people have, conscious or not, which can have devastating effects if you are a cop.

Edited by DEALUX
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SonofLosSantos
3 minutes ago, DEALUX said:

There are a lot of studies that contradict each other on the topic as seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_deadly_force_in_the_United_States

 

Blacks seem to commit a majority of some crimes and maybe you would argue that some of those arrests are unjustified but that still wouldn't account for the disparity unless you think 100% of the cops are racist or looking for black people to arrest. Of course, in any given case you could argue that a black victim of a police shooting was unjustifiably killed. I guess I'm unconvinced that I should always assume it's racism and not just plain old incompetence but I can definitely imagine cops viewing black suspects differently compared to whites and the resulting consequences of that. I think the reality is worse than what some people think. It's not overt racism. It's just the kind of biases that most people have, conscious or not, which can have devastating effects if you are a cop.

I understand what you’re saying, maybe it’s not blantant racism and may just be prejudice. I’m not sure which one I’ve personally dealt with more. BUT, as a public servant there no excuse for that kind of ignorance or bias. To be honest, those crime statistics go out the window when you realize they aren’t only killing “criminals”. They’re killing elders, children, paramedics, not just people that “most” would be consider to be “unsavory”

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FangDangFoo
52 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

I note you failed to address my previous querying of this.

Can you point to where I "insulted" the poster in question?

Pretty sure you called him a dick waving spunk-bucket, but that could be fake news, not entirely sure. 🤑

 

Anyways: to simplify things (mainly because I'm drunk and unable to type clever).

  • Police - Upholders of law as prescribed by lawmakers.
  • Courts - Practitioners of sentencing in light of a guilty verdict for infringing laws. (death penalty included).

I don't see any judges or other law makers going out into the street and killing civilians.

 

The cop in question knelt on a guys neck for almost 9 minutes, despite the  'suspect' being face down in handcuffs,

 

There's absolutely no racism in U.S. Law Enforcement.

 

Just gonna leave this here.

 

 

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sivispacem
49 minutes ago, Halal Cyborg said:

I felt saying he had his dick in hand

with one's dick in one's hand

(idiomatic, vulgar, informal) In a state of being unprepared, powerless, or idle. 

 

49 minutes ago, Halal Cyborg said:

and calling them ignorant

Displaying ignorance =! being ignorant. 

 

49 minutes ago, Halal Cyborg said:

I personally wouldn’t address someone that way

Well, I personally wouldn't pick my nose and eat the contents, but I'm not going to start advocating reprimands for everyone who does.

 

46 minutes ago, DEALUX said:

Blacks seem to commit a majority of some crimes 

I'm not sure why people seem to be under the false illusion that this is at all relevant.

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Halal Cyborg
2 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

with one's dick in one's hand

(idiomatic, vulgar, informal) In a state of being unprepared, powerless, or idle. 

 

Displaying ignorance =! being ignorant. 

I concede there are worst things a person could say to another but I reiterate maybe not someone in a position of power.

There are dictionary definitions for all words both old and new but it doesn’t change their meaning.

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sivispacem
Just now, Halal Cyborg said:

I concede there are worst things a person could say to another

No sh*t.

 

Just now, Halal Cyborg said:

I reiterate maybe not someone in a position of power.

I'm not sure pussy-footing around and being overly diplomatic is a prerequisite of being "in a position of power".

 

2 minutes ago, Halal Cyborg said:

There are dictionary definitions for all words both old and new

There are six snails on my garage door.

 

I, too, can post things of no relevance.

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Halal Cyborg
47 minutes ago, SonofLosSantos said:

They’re killing elders, children, paramedics, not just people that “most” would be consider to be “unsavory”

This sounds like a Genocide...if true that’s horrendous.

 

Do you have anything to back up what you’re saying?

 

What sort of numbers are we talking?

 

Who are they? The majority of the police or a tiny minority?

 

 

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Zello
10 hours ago, Halal Cyborg said:

Nope I’m allowed to have an opinion on it sorry mate.

Have you been to Poland and Croatia? I’ve been there with black friends and I can assure you they had the same trip as me.

also my wife is Middle Eastern and had the same trip as me and we met many friendly locals.

With black friends. Now imagine if they were on their own.

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Awful Waffle

spicy


4VXa5az.jpg

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Halal Cyborg
36 minutes ago, Zello said:

With black friends. Now imagine if they were on their own.

I imagine they would be treated the same...it’s not as if I’m stuck next to them...I think it’s delusional to assume that any black people traveling in Eastern Europe will be arrested or not served in restaurants.

Racism is a problem in this world but not to the extent you’re making it out to be with statements like that.

 

I actually dated 3 girls of Caribbean descent and the biggest issue in the place I lived (Thornton Heath at the time) was old Jamaican men kissing their teeth at us walking arm in arm down the street etc...white people didn’t care that we were mixing.

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SonofLosSantos
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Halal Cyborg said:

This sounds like a Genocide...if true that’s horrendous.

 

Do you have anything to back up what you’re saying?

Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Philando Castile, Breonna Taylor.... their graves back up what I’m saying. My personal experience backs up what I’m saying. If you TRULY want to know and understand, you’ll look into it for yourself. We aren’t being dramatic. This isn’t a game. This isn’t a joke. This is real life and my people are being targeted and being killed. It’s been like that since we’ve arrived on this land, although that’s a different story....

Edited by SonofLosSantos
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Craigsters

Psst! Rodney King

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FangDangFoo
Posted (edited)

To give a flavour to what appears to be a global sentiment; a track from one of my latest Spotify recommended compilations called, funnily enough 'Black Lives Matter'. Yes it's called that.

 

Released in 1988, admittedly, slightly crass, and not a sentiment I neccesarily share, but a sentiment that has existed in the 'Black' community in parts of the U.S.A. for a considerable time;

 

N.W.A. (Listen to the 'White' monologue).

 

 

Edited by FangDangFoo

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Halal Cyborg
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, SonofLosSantos said:

Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Philando Castile, Breonna Taylor.... their graves back up what I’m saying. My personal experience backs up what I’m saying. If you TRULY want to know and understand, you’ll look into it for yourself. We aren’t being dramatic. This isn’t a game. This isn’t a joke. This is real life and my people are being targeted and being killed. It’s been like that since we’ve arrived on this land, although that’s a different story....

So you think the police are targeting all African Americans because of six graves?

You would think if they were targeting the genocide of an entire race they’d have killed a lot more innocent people don’t you think?

I think often people of all races are in the wrong place at the wrong time and variables conspire to doom them to their fate.

Lets say your people are being targeted though how does that work exactly? Is it from the top of the police department? Don’t you think the many African American police would notice?

I am sorry you have had such bad experiences but thinking your race is being systematically exterminated by the establishment is delusional.

 

This is my favourite hip hop track of all time probably...listen to the lyrics 

 

 

 

Edited by Halal Cyborg
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FangDangFoo
9 minutes ago, Halal Cyborg said:

I am sorry you have had such bad experiences but thinking your race is being systematically exterminated by the establishment is delusional.

 

Tell that to Native Americans

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Raavi

 

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Halal Cyborg
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, FangDangFoo said:

Tell that to Native Americans

They were...how exactly does it relate to this discussion?

I didn’t say theres never been any genocide of any sort did I? 
Such a selective quote pick out with a comment that has no relation to what I’m saying just so you can virtue signal.

 

They were brutally wiped out almost entirely in a very short period of time...this isn’t happening to African Americans sorry it just isn’t 

Edited by Halal Cyborg
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Lonely-Martin
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SonofLosSantos said:

Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Philando Castile, Breonna Taylor.... their graves back up what I’m saying. My personal experience backs up what I’m saying. If you TRULY want to know and understand, you’ll look into it for yourself. We aren’t being dramatic. This isn’t a game. This isn’t a joke. This is real life and my people are being targeted and being killed. It’s been like that since we’ve arrived on this land, although that’s a different story....

I don't normally enjoy talking about this type of topic as I'm worried I'll say the wrong thing or word things poorly and upset/offend people. I don't want to cause ripples, and must stress, I'm fully supportive of the BLM cause too, always have and always will be.

 

I honestly don't mean to single you out either as it's something I read/hear elsewhere too. But I've read a couple of your posts where you say 'my people' and do feel that it does have an 'us/them' feel to it that I'm not sure I agree with. They're my people too although I am white, at least that's how I've always seen it. We're all human after all. This incident troubles me as much as you, I'm sure, and only hope the discussions/protests can help bridge that 'us/them' feel between races.

 

Forgive me if I misunderstand or offend, I don't mean to. But I am of the mind we are all, or should be, in this together and want equality throughout. Just looking for a better understanding is all from someone who has strong feelings on this unfortunate topic.

 

To be fair, much like the N-word. I quite dislike how it's widely used among the black communities in a friendship kind of way but once a white/other race person uses it, it's a foul word to use to call someone. I hate that word and would never use it, but the way it does get used confuses me a bit TBH. Again, I mean no offence with these queries, just as things are being talked about more, I'd like to understand these things better and learn more.

 

-------

 

Anyway, ever since I was a kid and saw the Rodney King incident, and the following riots from that case and was quite shocked myself to learn those cops got found not guilty back then, I've always just felt sad anytime an issue like this pops up again and again. I forget many names off the top of my head, but remember many instances where regardless of the crime someone is suspected of, unless they pose immediate threat to life, it always has troubled me to see the way some police do react and it really does frustrate me to learn the next time it happens, things seem to take a backward step or show the past incidents had little effect longer term. Things really do need to change, IMO.

 

What we saw with George last week was absolutely shocking. Not just that the man lost his life, but the way the policeman stayed on top of him after the man had fallen silent and the way none of the other officers did nothing until too late. To know these bullies can be so carefree/mindless during that moment was truly shocking and it's absolutely unacceptable.

 

I don't believe it's always a racial thing, but I do believe many times it is though, and I do feel the police in America have a reputation earned by being too heavy handed and often 'bullies with a badge' too. I've had a few run in's with the police in England here myself and feel some really convey an 'I am' attitude rather than an 'I am here to do what's correct' mindset. That said, I also don't believe all police are this way or racist, but the ones that are really do hurt things for other officers that can do a fair and fine job in any part if the world, let alone here or America.

 

I hope I made sense.

Edited by Lonely-Martin
Autospell fail.
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SonofLosSantos
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Halal Cyborg said:

thinking your race is being systematically exterminated by the establishment is delusional.

 

This is the most ignorant and insensitive thing you could possibly say to me. You don’t know what it’s like to even speak on. You speak from a position of privilege. You don’t have to fear for your life. You don’t have to feel uncomfortable In certain situations dealing with police, even in situations where you work along side them. You don’t have to feel like less than human, and you don’t have to have your family tell you that they worry about your safety and the hands of those sworn to protect and serve you. Before my injury, I was out here in the field. I saw what happened. I heard what they said about us. I saw how the black officers wouldn’t even dare to look us in the eyes. Since the United States was founded, and even before that, black people in this country have been systematically terrorized by police and white people as a whole. The Tulsa black wall st. Race attacks, the intentional spread of syphilis around blacks as guinea pigs, the genital mutilation of black women by white doctors in the name of “science.” And the existence of the KKK, WHICH STILL EXIST TO THIS DAY. We’ve given these people no reason to hate us, we never asked to be here, we never asked to suffer. People like you are the reason why the events of today are happening. Because we try to get people to understand and acknowledge us and our suffering, but we continue to get insensitively dismissed by those that can’t be bother to care enough to listen or understand. Don’t tell me I’m delusional, because from my point of view thats exactly how you sound.   

 

 

@Lonely-Martin it’s not “us” vs them. It’s right vs wrong. Injustice vs equality. This is life vs death. I’m not saying this in the cliche’ “oh I have black friends” kind of way, but my mothers mother was white, god rest her soul. I don’t harbor any hatred in my heart for any group of people. There are many white people that see and understand our plight and have been working tirelessly to help this cause for decades. We just want to live without fear of abuse or harassment or even death. We want to have the right to exist. Why do they hate us so much?

Edited by SonofLosSantos
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Zello

 

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Zello
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Halal Cyborg said:

Lets say your people are being targeted though how does that work exactly? Is it from the top of the police department? Don’t you think the many African American police would notice?

There have been minority quotas in the NYPD. Their stop and frisk has mainly targeted blacks and hispanics.

 

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-nypd-quotas-lawsuit-20191205-osdwj4kounf5xkvurkj3wshqry-story.html?outputType=amp

Edited by Zello
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sivispacem
6 hours ago, Halal Cyborg said:

So you think the police are targeting all African Americans because of six graves?

Obvious straw man aside, it's difficult to argue that the US criminal justice system doesn't disproportionately target minorities. We've already seen the officer involved shooting statistics, but there's also an unequivocal bias in sentencing policy which sees minorities vastly more likely to be imprisoned, and for longer, than whites convicted of the same crimes. 

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DEALUX
12 hours ago, sivispacem said:

I'm not sure why people seem to be under the false illusion that this is at all relevant.

But dealing with black criminals on a regular basis or really any people that look a certain way is probably what influences cops to view certain groups a different way (i.e. racial profiling). This obviously doesn't excuse their erratic and violent behavior but it perhaps shows that this issue is harder to "fix" than just simply firing or jailing the "racist cops" (though some people right now seem to think all cops are racist).

 

I don't know. America's f*cking weird. Everyone seems so obsessed with race, even the liberals who are probably closet racists judging by the amount of white guilt I see from them.

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sivispacem
9 minutes ago, DEALUX said:

But dealing with black criminals on a regular basis or really any people that look a certain way is probably what influences cops to view certain groups a different way (i.e. racial profiling).

That's not quite the point I was making; it was more that there's no direct or indirect relationship between rate of offending amongst ethnic groups and requirement for the use of force against suspects.

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Halal Cyborg
Posted (edited)

@SonofLosSantos I’m afraid you know absolutely nothing about my life so making such incredible assumptions is extremely ignorant.

I am sorry it upsets you to have to think about this and to have your opinion questioned but facts don’t care about your feelings and yes while there is racism towards your people nothing suggests there is a systemic genocide against your people...if there was then do you think you’d still be here along with your people? You clearly have a deep distrust of white people which is driven by negative experiences of course and it’s easier to simplify things internally and think the worst of all and the ultimate deepest fear which is that you’re being systematically wiped out...nothing supports that regardless of how upset you are or refuse to allow me an opinion.

9 hours ago, Zello said:

There have been minority quotas in the NYPD. Their stop and frisk has mainly targeted blacks and hispanics.

 

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-nypd-quotas-lawsuit-20191205-osdwj4kounf5xkvurkj3wshqry-story.html?outputType=amp

I have no problem believing the police do more stop and search etc but as you well know you’re responding to this out of context as I was specifically referring to @SonofLosSantos saying his people are being systematically targeted for extermination by the establishment...not arrested or stopped.

 

9 hours ago, sivispacem said:

Obvious straw man aside, it's difficult to argue that the US criminal justice system doesn't disproportionately target minorities. We've already seen the officer involved shooting statistics, but there's also an unequivocal bias in sentencing policy which sees minorities vastly more likely to be imprisoned, and for longer, than whites convicted of the same crimes. 

see my above response you’re both deliberately responding out of context...By targeted I meant systematically wiped out SS style...I asked him for evidence of this and he provided me with 6 graves...try six million then we have an unequivocal genocide against a people.

It is amazing to me how so much of the world hates my wife’s race and yet they’re continually successful...she hides her nationality frequently and we avoid speaking Hebrew in public when abroad in some countries because historically her people have been targeted for genocide over and over and whenever anyone starts throwing the word around without justification it is quite frankly insulting to their memory.

 

I hope it is now clear to the non delusional posters that I’m not saying there isn’t targeting in the sense of arrests but that there isn’t a culling of an entire race...that’s mental illness to think that.

9 hours ago, Zello said:

 

I think spike lee films are great

 

Jungle Fever, Crooklyn, Clockers and now the amazing Blackklansman are my favourites...I also have a huge collection of old Reggae and dub on vinyl and a lot of old school hip hop...ultramagnetic MCs “Critical beat down” is my fave album of that era.

 

incidentally @SonofLosSantos I just remembered how when I started dating an Israeli/Jewish girl I lost loads of friends and they shunned me...particularly socialists...don’t assume anything it makes an ass of u and me

Edited by Halal Cyborg
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sivispacem
22 minutes ago, Halal Cyborg said:

@SonofLosSantossee my above response you’re both deliberately responding out of context...

I feel that's adequately covered by the "obvious straw man aside" aspect of my comment, given that it was you who invoked the notion of genocide. The poster you were responding to did not, either implicitly or explicitly; you've simply pretended they have.

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