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shadyslady

But please Niko, NO MORE KILLING.

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shadyslady

Killing people has been an organic part of all GTA games. 

Hell, most of Niko's missions were hits, assassinations. 

As Rockstar went into a more serious direction this has become an issue though. 

Not only in GTA, but also RDR, like the message being an outlaw killing people is wrong and will lead to misery. 

 

*****Spoilers*****

 

Niko loses Roman or Kate, Johnny loses his friends and club and ultimately dies as some messed up junkie, 

Michael and Trevor both either die or Franklin has to live with the fact he killed one of his friends/mentors. (ignoring the Canon c ending, since this only got kinda confirmed with the casino update, Gta online in 2019 or what, years later), Arthur and John both meet fatal endings on their outlaw journey. 

 

This serious tone definitely wasn't present in the 3D or 2D era. 

 

Now if Rockstar keeps the HD era universe, how about a character who doesn't go apesh*t killing everyone? 

 

It could work. Yakuza series has this over 7 games strong. 

Hotline Miami, which is a bloody sh*t fest also has a character who only knocks out people in HM2, 

It could work. 

 

With multiple protagonists of course. 

Thoughts? 

 

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Algonquin Assassin

It's kind of ironic the title you chose refers to Ileyna Faustin's encounter where she asks Niko to confront the guy dating Anna Faustin and it's possible to do this simply by beating the sh*t out of him without killing him at all and you can follow Illeyna's plead.;)

 

There are other encounters/missions where it's possible for Niko not to kill anyone either. For someone who's a hired gun/assassin R* forwarded him and the player a number of opportunities where we can just use his fists if you really want and probably more than most protagonists.

 

But I get your point. Now you mention it I really hope the protagonist (s) don't die at the end of the story and/or someone close to them. It's become somewhat of a cliche in recent R* games. Hell Max Payne got to live and got somewhat of a happy ending at the end of Max Payne 3. 

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iiCriminnaaL 49
Posted (edited)

I have no problem with sparing some lives. It's Mikhail that has that issue.

Edited by iiCriminnaaL 49
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The Wolf Man
Posted (edited)

The 3D era games were more romanticized (or maybe just goofy).

 

GTA IV and the Red Dead games tried to be more realistic not just in the gameplay but also in the story. If you live by the gun there's a great chance that you will die by the gun. I think that's the point of both games. They want to make the players feel the consequences of their actions.

 

GTA V went back to the romanticized/goofy scenario (only a little bit more elaborated of course), and I think GTA VI will probably follow the same path.

Edited by The Wolf Man
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Zello
11 hours ago, shadyslady said:

This serious tone definitely wasn't present in the 3D or 2D era. 

Vice City stories

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éX-Driver

Outside of the story missions where you’re essentially only killing gangsters and other obviously morally reprehensible folk, you never really have to kill anyone. Especially not in the HD games. The very few times you DO, it’s more a case of kill-or-be-killed. Which, considering the protagonists of R* games are by no means morally upstanding citizens either, it seems obvious in-universe why they’d decide “if it’s between you or me, it might as well be you”, as Dutch puts it.

 

Niko for example is an illegal immigrant with basically no connections. He’s only in Liberty because he specifically wants to hunt down the man/men responsible for killing his friends. The only skills he has are the ones he picked up in the army, so he has essentially no choice but to be a hired gun if he wants to make enough to live and be able to get his foot in the door for hunting down the people he’s after. 

 

John in Redemption 1 only canonically kills his former gangmates and their new gang members. Otherwise he’s a law-abiding citizen. He’s also working under the jurisdiction of the federal government, and thus what he’s doing is technically legal.

Arthur is explicitly stated to be a criminal who’s robbing for survival. 

 

The only outlier is GTA 5, and that’s mostly because they were trying to ape the tone of San Andreas and Vice City. 

 

Hotline Miami is an assassination game, not necessarily an open-world action-adventure crime simulator.

The reason the Yakuza games are like that is because they’re Japanese and are focused on a distinctly Japanese setting. Outside of the cartoony joke stuff, it’s a fairly accurate representation of how the Yakuza operates in reality: underground business dealings to skirt regulations and tax law, and quiet murders in dark rooms hidden in some back alley. The concept of big shootouts and car chases are very much an American media thing, and are completely alien in Japan. You couldn’t have a GTA game set in Japan if you wanted it to be even remotely accurate to what modern day Japan is like. Modern GTA is a satirical take on American media and lifestyles. Dialling back on the violence would just neuter the franchise. Hell, it’s even implied in the name: Grand Theft Auto. It’s about fast cars and shooty pew-pews. You go in expecting anything else and you’re gonna have a bad time. 

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Copcaller

I like the option to occasionally spare lives love the idea of is this gonna reward me or bite me in the ass later on. 

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Ryo256
On 5/14/2020 at 5:35 PM, iiCriminnaaL 49 said:

I have no problem with sparing some lives. It's Mikhail that has that issue.

Can't keep his finger off the controller. Wasn't always like this though. GTA games got to him.

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Americana

I hope it does get to me...

 


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Algonquin Assassin
11 hours ago, Copcaller said:

I like the option to occasionally spare lives love the idea of is this gonna reward me or bite me in the ass later on. 

I think this could be greatly expanded on though.

 

It was such a cool concept in GTA IV as we never really had that freedom of choice in 3D era GTAs. I have to admit the choices could sometimes be rather shallow without that much of a consequence, but since this was the first time it was tried in a GTA game I'll let it slide somewhat. I did/do like how some sparred characters show up as random characters later on.

 

GTA V was disappointing in this regard IMO. Apart from the ending I don't really remember other choices throughout the story whether we could choose to kill or spare someone and it would have an affect. I'm even surprised that neither RDR1 or RDR2 expanded on it greatly as I would've thought given the subject matter it would've been perfect, but again there seemed like there was less and any choices present don't seem to go beyond what GTA IV was doing.

 

In saying that I would love if the choices carried more weight. Say you choose to spare or kill someone it could course change the entire story guiding us down a path to a different ending, different sets of missions etc a bit like Quantic Dreams' games, Life Is Strange etc. Maybe not quite to the level of intricacy of those games since they're not open world and are heavily narrative driven, but I don't see why the choices couldn't be made more in depth as they add alot of replay value.

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Outlaw Biker Viking

I agree with the OP in regards to that I hope nobody close to the main protagonist dies in the end. Algonquin Assassin is right (as usual) in that it has kinda become a cliche in recent R* games. If I’m gonna be completely honest, though, I’d rather have a character in a game where you play as a cop, detective, or spy be a (mostly) non-killer, just an arrester because they really are just that: law enforcement. Personally, I think killing is overall better fit for an organized crime related game like GTA, Mafia, or The Godfather games but still, I still agree that it’s better to not have it to where it doesn’t happen every two seconds. That really gets kinda ridiculous.

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Gettin up

I don't like the idea. I think GTA is based on cars and guns. And I'm not a fan of stealth missions.

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SonofLosSantos

5 was pretty lame in that accord as I felt like you never really lost anyone significant. Everyone from the beginning of the game made it to the end

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Americana
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Algonquin Assassin said:

I think this could be greatly expanded on though.

 

It was such a cool concept in GTA IV as we never really had that freedom of choice in 3D era GTAs. I have to admit the choices could sometimes be rather shallow without that much of a consequence, but since this was the first time it was tried in a GTA game I'll let it slide somewhat. I did/do like how some sparred characters show up as random characters later on.

 

GTA V was disappointing in this regard IMO. Apart from the ending I don't really remember other choices throughout the story whether we could choose to kill or spare someone and it would have an affect. I'm even surprised that neither RDR1 or RDR2 expanded on it greatly as I would've thought given the subject matter it would've been perfect, but again there seemed like there was less and any choices present don't seem to go beyond what GTA IV was doing.

 

In saying that I would love if the choices carried more weight. Say you choose to spare or kill someone it could course change the entire story guiding us down a path to a different ending, different sets of missions etc a bit like Quantic Dreams' games, Life Is Strange etc. Maybe not quite to the level of intricacy of those games since they're not open world and are heavily narrative driven, but I don't see why the choices couldn't be made more in depth as they add alot of replay value.

 

Looks like they really used their brains when creating Grand Theft Auto IV, while they were more like: "Umm... what kids nowadays want when it comes to Grand Theft Auto games?".

 


Edited by Americana
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Ryo256
10 hours ago, SonofLosSantos said:

Everyone from the beginning of the game made it to the end

Wish I could say that for all my playthroughs hehehe:

oqPndth.png

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CrimsonFolo

I wouldn't mind more non-lethal options but they gotta give some form of incentive - you can fight in gta V but half the time you will one hit the NPC causing them to die or you will spam pushes/kickes/punches until they die. GTA IV combat was getting there somewhat and San andreas had good ideas with the different fighting styles. 

 

Maybe there should be a slight de-incentive for killing people - Perhaps killing x amount of people could put you on a "wanted" list in a sense and could get attacked by bounty hunters (i wouldn't want it like RDR2 bounty system, more like lets say someone tries to come up and stab you or a car tries to ram you off the road and capture you) or maybe a vigilante may have a chance of attacking you perhaps.

 

 

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Dark Rosewood Varnish
On 5/14/2020 at 11:53 AM, shadyslady said:

 

 

This serious tone definitely wasn't present in the 3D or 2D era. 

 

 

 

 

GTA3 had an extremely serious tone. 

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shadyslady
3 hours ago, Dark Rosewood Varnish said:

 

GTA3 had an extremely serious tone. 

No need for nitpicking words. 

3D era was way more cartoonish and wacky. 

 

The other ppl seem to understand what I mean

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Racecarlock

How's that gonna gel with the standard player's free roam gameplay, which evolves 80 police homicides and a pile of blown up cars for breakfast? Because trying to stop players from doing that in a GTA game would be like trying to stop people from driving fast in gran turismo.

 

That's the thing, any anti killing message in GTA would NEVER be taken seriously, because odds are most players aren't following the law, stopping at traffic lights, helping old ladies across the street, and driving in a manner one would consider sane. You might as well make a point about how jumping is bad in a mario game. Or how fighting is bad in a mortal kombat game. You totally could, but everyone would just laugh at it.

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Zello
8 hours ago, Ryo256 said:

Wish I could say that for all my playthroughs hehehe:

oqPndth.png

I always make Michael take the shot.

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Ryo256
2 hours ago, Zello said:

I always make Michael take the shot.

Indeed, that way both Franklin and Michael get character development by actually doing something decisive for once.

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Algonquin Assassin
7 hours ago, shadyslady said:

No need for nitpicking words. 

3D era was way more cartoonish and wacky. 

 

The other ppl seem to understand what I mean

He makes a point to be fair. Out of all the 3D era GTAs GTA III is easily the most "serious" of them. In fact I think it's more serious than GTA IV in some ways.

 

Gameplay wise it doesn't have some of the quirky gimmicks like games such as San Andreas and VCS do. It's straight up, no nonsense, but that's why i like it just like I like GTA IV so it's not necessarily a bad thing however it's no accident GTA IV takes a lot of design/creative cues from GTA III rather than other games in the 3D era. 

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Ryo256
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Algonquin Assassin said:

He makes a point to be fair. Out of all the 3D era GTAs GTA III is easily the most "serious" of them. In fact I think it's more serious than GTA IV in some ways.

 

Gameplay wise it doesn't have some of the quirky gimmicks like games such as San Andreas and VCS do. It's straight up, no nonsense, but that's why i like it just like I like GTA IV so it's not necessarily a bad thing however it's no accident GTA IV takes a lot of design/creative cues from GTA III rather than other games in the 3D era. 

Actually I was playing III just recently out of nostalgia and I found out that III storywise is no-bullsh*t serious but in mission design it is probably more arcadey which V does pay homage to e.g Trevor's rampage mission and III having mission like getting a unlimited ammo flamethrower to burn 25 triads in given time or collecting at least 4 girls and delivering em to a cop party so Luigi can make money.

Storywise it is indeed way way way more serious than IV. You won't see a Bruice or Roman in there. But it doesn't build much connection either so people don't mean much to silent Claude nor will you see moments where you can feel the emotion (like Niko's anger or sorrow in IV). However the radio in III is more funny/wacky than SA and V. 

Nonetheless I think IV is a worthy sequel to III, which I can't say for a certain sequel...... 

Edited by Ryo256

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Niobium
5 hours ago, Zello said:

I always make Michael take the shot.

it's silly for franklin to be the one to take the shot and then get mad at michael for his taunt. you're the one who pulled the trigger!

it is better for franklin to be indecisive about it so that getting mad at him actually makes sense

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Zello
10 minutes ago, Niobium said:

it's silly for franklin to be the one to take the shot and then get mad at michael for his taunt. you're the one who pulled the trigger!

it is better for franklin to be indecisive about it so that getting mad at him actually makes sense

Michael's speech just flows much better and makes more sense when he pulls the trigger instead of Franklin.

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