What does griefing mean to you?

[kcole4001]

43 minutes ago, Hiply said:

It's never going to happen, but; one way to mitigate some of this would be persistent servers instead of P2P.  Eventually most griefers in a persistent environment would wind up on KoS lists and become an object of sport instead of an annoyance.

It would likely be a lot easier to track and ban cheaters also, but that seems to be a very low priority.

[Lonely-Martin]

3 hours ago, AmyStone said:

Ok, I don't think that quote works. If I try to steal someone else's sale and they prevent me from doing it then are they griefing me?

More you griefing them as you're imposing on their gameplay and instigating things unknowing if they welcome it. It's on the person attacked for if they see it as grief or as a welcome challenge, you attacked them, they attack you. It's developer sanctioned grief all round really, lol. A circle jerk of a farce given the game's promotion. Lies.

 

We all have our limits and wants in a videogame like this that is deliberately trying to target all types of playstyles even though they're serving up the PvE players on purpose knowing they are gonna be griefed. For some it's not welcomed and never will be. Not when it's forced, so it will always be seen in the negative way, grief.

 

I do get that it is part of the game obviously, but I'm not playing to compare cock size, lol. I don't need challenging or to be on guard all the time or go out of my way to not interact in an online game as I'm there for the PvE only. That's where R* and T2 are complicit in developer sanctioned griefing which only plays playstyles against each other and favours the one, PvP players. 

 

A deliberate thing as it stops us all uniting to push for a better gaming experience all round, in my opinion.

 

With the stealing of stuff, it can invite a good ol' game of hot potato as we don't necessarily lose the content or see time wasted if we fight back, it should be up to the player if they want to invite said challenges or not. Lobby choice is key. But they again (after the mess that is GTA:O businesses) enable players to blow stuff up in an instant, and beyond as griefers or those forcing their PvP on others will interfere with anything else which, with stupid cards and explosive ammo, takes no time at all. Certainly no skill or challenge. But it doesn't stop there as griefers just want to disrupt another's game any way they can. So it ensues, and it grows and grows, along with the power creep of weapons or these daft cards over time too.

 

It's not optional, and definitely not balanced. I'm convinced 'balance' is a bad word at R*/T2 towers, lol. It's that petty, the defensive mode was a smokescreen. If they don't intend it to be balanced and have this area as fair sport while keeping those with no desire to play those aspects room to play in the peace they wanted and expected through R*'s promoting of RDRO, they should offer lobbies so those that choose the PvE only content can enjoy their game without the enabled bozo's free reign to be griefers.

 

With a game offering PvE content to draw the PvE crowd in, forcing PvP on those players is just spite. Probably part of their 'the freeloaders are a problem playerbase to solve' bollocks of a target set back a while. I mean, it's working to an extent as I know I'm not interested in running the gauntlet on yet more grinding of the same sh*tty businesses that plagued GTA:O, so I've little choice but to dump this mess and move on to other games. Luckily for GTA, we have legitimate options to forego that content and still enjoy our PvE. This game is so cheap because it lacks choice while promoting just that, lol. It's just lies.

 

Hence, a game killer for me and many. It's childish from R* and those stupid top trumps only add to the crap out there along with unpunished glitches and cheating, which seasoned griefers will and do seek out and exploit to further their cause. R* again is complicit because they allow it free reign.

 

As for the 'anti griefing measures, they're inevitably flawed and anyone out to be a griefer will expose any weakness in them, especially defensive players and sales can just be blown up by a passer by in no time. There's clearly plenty defensive players basically saying 'leave me be, I don't do PvP but R* is forcing us to share the map. Find a PvP player to fight' by selecting defensive and becomes a beacon of a target. They're setting us up as fish in a barrel, again.

 

If they're going to offer PvE content to draw that crowd, putting them in a potential PvP situation is always going to be considered grief. R* should stop sending mixed messages and setting players up to be griefed, by you or anyone that looks to impose on our gameplay. But alas, it is very clear many PvP players need the easy prey and don't want to fight their own ilk. It's pretty pathetic and as shown with GTA:O, if left to grow, it grows into a toxic part of the playerbase. (Which R* further enabled by adding stupid flying bikes and orbital cannons to monitise the sanctioned grief and further see it grow that playerbase. It's a toxic brewing method, lol).

 

If we were talking about a game that doesn't and won't offer pure PvE content, then it becomes something different, a PvP game. And then I and many simply wouldn't have even considered RDRO as it wouldn't have any appeal as it offers gameplay not made for us and we'd have no room to come and complain or call foul. But alas, it's R*/T2 looking to be petty, childish, thick headed, whatever. But certainly not honest in their promoting of RDRO.

[Nerfgoth]

Everything outside mission objective!

 

One thing that is defiantly is griefing is killing you after you done trade route or any free mode event that kicks player out of defensive after you load back in to free mode....

[Van_Hellsing]

Apart from the technical definition of griefing, I see it as a nefarious way of Rockstar for throttling your income. En passant, for the griefers it is a twisted way to give some false meaning to their insignificant lives. 

 

Rockstar is catering to griefers to put you in a slow and exposed vehicle and notify the entire lobby that you are trying to make a buck. 

 

If you lose a sale, you can buy gold or a shark card to make up for lost revenue. If you are actively griefing, you don't spend time generating money. So you are likely to have a mtx. 

[1898]

1 hour ago, Van_Hellsing said:

 

Rockstar is catering to griefers to put you in a slow and exposed vehicle and notify the entire lobby that you are trying to make a buck. 

That's it for me. Taking the back roads or railroad tracks to avoid other players is part of the fun and challenge but notifications ruins it. Any monkey with a controller can easily destroy a wagon.

[kcole4001]

Notifications and a BIG red spot on the map is what takes any sense of fair play out of it.

I've forgotten to re-engage defensive numerous times after doing a few races or a showdown for a daily and wondered 'what the heck is that big red dot on the map?' only to go a little closer and find out it's someone's trader sale and realize I'm on offensive mode.

Plus the notifications when I'm actually in defensive (as I intended) to 'switch to offensive mode to see nearby rival missions'.

My answer: "no! f*ck off R*"

[netnow66]

36 minutes ago, kcole4001 said:

I've forgotten to re-engage defensive numerous times after doing a few races or a showdown for a daily and wondered 'what the heck is that big red dot on the map?' only to go a little closer and find out it's someone's trader sale and realize I'm on offensive mode.

I play in glitched solo lobbies most of the time, so the only confrontations I have during long distance deliveries occur when there are bandits attacking my buyer when I approach.

 

When I play in the quick on call missions that put me into Offensive, if I forget to switch to Defensive when the mission is over and I get popped, I don't fault the player because my opinion is that anyone playing in Offensive is saying "I'm fair game, come and attack me at will," regardless of whether or not you're going to the butcher, treasure hunting, etc. 

 

Rockstar (after much wailing and gnashing of teeth) gave us Defensive that not only helps us if attacked but that also tells those with common decency and sense that we don't want to be bothered. It takes a special kind of axxxxxe to want to bother other players.

 

 

[FuturePastNow]

Attacking a distant sale isn't griefing since the game tells you to do it and rewards you for it. It's asshole behavior but it's not breaking the rules of the game.

 

Attacking a short-distance sale, or a moonshine sale that you happen to come across? The game doesn't mark them on the map or reward you for destroying it. That's griefing.

[CosmicBuffalo]

48 minutes ago, FuturePastNow said:

Attacking a distant sale isn't griefing since the game tells you to do it and rewards you for it. It's asshole behavior but it's not breaking the rules of the game.

 

Attacking a short-distance sale, or a moonshine sale that you happen to come across? The game doesn't mark them on the map or reward you for destroying it. That's griefing.

I fully agree with this.  PVEers can sell short and skip stranger missions that tell you this will make you offensive in this game.  If someone doesn't steal the stuff as instructed, then its a gray area, but I would lean on the side of not griefing because the game is actually telling you attack and also the person doing the job should be aware they are target. 

Spoiler

 

You can still grief people in defensive on short sales by shooting dynamite arrows at their wagons.  I realize PVEers hate this, but in my own opinion, getting attacked on activities where the game is telling people attack in this game is so rare, it really not a concern for short sales players who ride in defensive.

 

I personally enjoy the competition of business activity pvp.  I also find knowing the work-arounds entertaining.  Griefing really isn't my style, but playing with people who do is really the only way to learn how to beat them.  I enjoy demoralizing griefers.  And really the only way to be able to do it, at least for me, was to actually become one for a short period of time.  It is definitely possible to beat most of them.  However, if they are in a posse, its best to tuck tail and run, you can a learn a lot if dont, but it can bruise your ego, for like 5 mins.  

 

 

[Buddy Hightower]

On 5/3/2020 at 11:26 AM, Fun 2 said:

It is.

No dumb outlaw would destroy the wagon he was seeking to steal.

Also griefing is to annoy other players or ruin their experiences, it doesn't matter what the game tells you to do, it's still called griefing.

The game doesn't TELL me to do anything, it INVITES me to engage in PvP.

But that doesn't matter either, the fact of the matter is that the entire map is a pvp zone weather you want to admit it or not.

I really can't stand PvP in rockstar games, it's just a waste of time and money, however to call someone a griefer because they like the way the game is setup is nonsense.

[Direwrath]

5 hours ago, kcole4001 said:

Notifications and a BIG red spot on the map is what takes any sense of fair play out of it.

I've forgotten to re-engage defensive numerous times after doing a few races or a showdown for a daily and wondered 'what the heck is that big red dot on the map?' only to go a little closer and find out it's someone's trader sale and realize I'm on offensive mode.

Plus the notifications when I'm actually in defensive (as I intended) to 'switch to offensive mode to see nearby rival missions'.

My answer: "no! f*ck off R*"

And they appear even if you are far away, like why would I race across the map just to go mess with the player?

 

4 hours ago, netnow66 said:

IRockstar (after much wailing and gnashing of teeth) gave us Defensive that not only helps us if attacked but that also tells those with common decency and sense that we don't want to be bothered. It takes a special kind of axxxxxe to want to bother other players.

Griefers are not the players with any common decency nor do they have any sense. When I am in defensive mode I tend to become a bigger target, more so if it is my posse who are in defensive. This is how you can really pick out the griefers from the "outlaw" players. I can play in offensive for a week of gameplay and not have one player mess with me, but that one time I go into defensive the idiots come out of the woodwork. Once again, it seems R* wants to give us pve players a false sense of security in this game but are more willing to give leverage towards the pvp players who just cannot leave others alone. 

 

 

[Mik73]

I avoid almost all PvP in online games these days, but I still have a pretty ambivalent notion about the concept of 'griefers' or griefing behavior. A big part of me thinks, if the game allows for certain kinds of PvP behavior..then that is not griefing, the game is working as intended.  I put the problem and the responsibility square on Developers for designing games that enable, encourage or facilitate toxic or unwanted negative player-to-player interaction.  

 

I tend to apply that also to player behavior that is 'outside the norm' for what the Developers intended. For example: A well-geared higher level player following a lower level player around constantly killing them. Or a guild/crew/posse doing the same thing.  That could be called 'griefing' behavior. But I have absolutely no patience for players, or worse the Developers themselves, saying "we don't encourage that behavior and want you to report those players for griefing". Or just, "that is bad behavior and they shouldn't do that. Shame on them!".  That is not a 'solution'.  Nor, of course, is half-baked 'parley' solutions or Bad Sport lobbies (gimme a break, you *gave* them rocket launchers, grenades and Dynamite.  What did you think was going to happen?). Or 'passive' modes that hamstring players gameplay.  Parley just temporarily limits the 'griefing' behavior to one player or group, but does nothing to limit the overall ability for constant 'negative player-to-player' interaction across future encounters or game sessions.  

 

Expecting players of wildly divergent ages, maturity levels, social, educational, mental and cultural backgrounds to adhere to some kind of softly-enforced, verbally encouraged video game version of a 'Social Contract' in a conflict-oriented virtual world is an absolute fools errand. We see this in game after game and developers consistently seemed surprised that these 'soft measures' to discourage 'griefing' behavior don't actually work.

 

Developers can wipe out most of these issues entirely by recognizing that a large cross-section of humanity thrown into a confrontational cauldron like a video game, will never agree to 'play nice' or 'play fair' in games that do not (and should not) provide real life 'accountability' for bad actors. If Developers & players don't like 'griefing', they need to stop wagging their fingers at 'griefers'. and put in place hard controls to enforce, as much as possible, the kind of gameplay Developers and Players would like to have. Ideally these 'control' systems would be in the players control as much as possible. It could be giving them private sessions, or proper PvE-only settings or servers,  etc.  There are plenty of examples out there, some good others not-so-much. 

 

But that implies that the Developer, R* in this case, is actually 'on board' with that PvE, or non-confrontational play style. Clearly R* is not. They want player confrontation regardless of any individual player's desires.  And when it comes down to it, R* really does not care if some players 'take it too far'. There are no real control systems to prevent it. They expect 'nice' players to take it on the chin encounter after encounter, session after session. With only a weak 'parley' system in place to close that barn door -- after the 'griefing' has already occurred. Which does nothing to prevent the next 'negative encounter' with the next 'griefer' or the next one, and the next one, etc.

 

If the game allows for 'behavior X' to occur. It will occur. Arguing about whether that is right or wrong, or 'how can we get players to stop that' is just never going to work. Either the Developer puts in the options or designs the game to prevent it or they don't. I never get upset at a player for killing me. I know what I'm getting in to if I decide to do a 'sell mission' in a 'populated lobby'. I just switch sessions or ride away and shake my head at R* for flattening our collective game experience to one, confrontation-oriented, model.  

[Rotarl]

I know PvP is part of the game and can even be encouraged by the way Free Roam goes.

But forcing someone into it, whether they want to or not, is a sign of griefing to me. You could be doing a mission, which in all fairness attracts them, or just roaming around. You'll be roped into having to fight back one way or another. Or switch sessions so you can find your next griefer.

Attacking someone just because. Does that rank 10, fishing by the lakeside, seem threatening to your rank 200+ self?
 

[Direwrath]

51 minutes ago, Rotarl said:

I know PvP is part of the game and can even be encouraged by the way Free Roam goes.

But forcing someone into it, whether they want to or not, is a sign of griefing to me. You could be doing a mission, which in all fairness attracts them, or just roaming around. You'll be roped into having to fight back one way or another. Or switch sessions so you can find your next griefer.

Attacking someone just because. Does that rank 10, fishing by the lakeside, seem threatening to your rank 200+ self?
 

At that point it's not about them being threatening, it's about them being an easy target. The griefing players aren't looking for a fight, all they want is to kill other players with the hopes that it is ruining that players day so they can stoke their ego. 

[Rotarl]

25 minutes ago, Direwrath said:

At that point it's not about them being threatening, it's about them being an easy target. The griefing players aren't looking for a fight, all they want is to kill other players with the hopes that it is ruining that players day so they can stoke their ego. 

The worst part is that this nonsense goes way further than that. First ever experience I had with Red Dead Online was a full posse chasing em around to lasso and kill me. And that was before Frontier Pursuits, back when we had everyone dotted in the map. Before Defensive, even.
Now I have to keep my weapon wheel open when someone passes me by even in defensive when helping my low rank friends.

[Tez2]

2 hours ago, Mik73 said:

But that implies that the Developer, R* in this case, is actually 'on board' with that PvE, or non-confrontational play style. Clearly R* is not. They want player confrontation regardless of any individual player's desires.  And when it comes down to it, R* really does not care if some players 'take it too far'. There are no real control systems to prevent it. They expect 'nice' players to take it on the chin encounter after encounter, session after session. With only a weak 'parley' system in place to close that barn door -- after the 'griefing' has already occurred. Which does nothing to prevent the next 'negative encounter' with the next 'griefer' or the next one, and the next one, etc.

I remember one of Rockstar live streams, they were streaming GTA Online when suddenly a griefer appeared and started killing them abusing all sorts of features available to him, the community managers didn't like that and tried to move away or switch sessions from what I remember.

It shows that even the community managers aren't "on board" with their own PVP model, so the only reason I could think of why such model even exists is microtransactions aka gold bars.

Players who destroy wagons for no reason aren't likely to purchase gold bars, some of them if not most, would complain at the other players who do purchase gold bars, yet their actions is what promote other players to do so, it's quite ironic.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Fun 2

[Direwrath]

1 hour ago, Rotarl said:

The worst part is that this nonsense goes way further than that. First ever experience I had with Red Dead Online was a full posse chasing em around to lasso and kill me. And that was before Frontier Pursuits, back when we had everyone dotted in the map. Before Defensive, even.
Now I have to keep my weapon wheel open when someone passes me by even in defensive when helping my low rank friends.

Yeah when I was mid level we had a seven player posse of 200+ players attack me and my husband forcing us from the server. Seven vs two isn't much of a game if you ask me, but on my end, I did kill a few of them because they were being overzealous and stupid.

 

And I understand being wary of other players, even if they are in defensive. This is where I do not understand why R* keeps pushing that they want players to interact and yet they allow the ability to grief? I love greeting other players, seeing their characters and their horses, it just hardly ever happens because players flee when I ride towards them. When everyone is so afraid to be around each other it makes meaningful interactions non existent.

53 minutes ago, Fun 2 said:

I remember one of Rockstar live streams, they were streaming GTA Online when suddenly a griefer appeared and started killing them abusing all sorts of features available to him, the community managers didn't like that and tried to move away or switch sessions from what I remember.

It shows that even the community managers aren't "on board" with their own PVP model, so the only reason I could think of why such model even exists is microtransactions aka gold bars.

Players who destroy wagons for no reason aren't likely to purchase gold bars, some of them if not most, would complain at the other players who do purchase gold bars, yet their actions is what promote other players to do so, it's quite ironic.

This is why I have and still refuse to spend any money on gold in this game. I want to support the game, I really do, but the lack of response to the problems the players face just turns me away. Griefing, being one of the big ones they are determined to ignore.                   

[Failed Again]

"Grieving's": just another word for nothing left to lose

Edited May 5, 2020 by Failed Again

[RyuNova]

It's a murky topic at best.

Griefing, at least on here and places like Reddit, seems to be doing anything that the "victim" does not like. Just being close to someone is "griefing" and grounds to be killed. You could be picking Wild Mint and someone comes near you and you accidentally pick the Mint they want and you get two Sawn Off Shotguns in the back for being a "Griefer"

 

You see people post stories on Reddit about them and a six man Posse delivering some Trader stuff in a long distance sale and some level one rides near them on a Donkey and they kill the level one and repeatedly hunt him down for two hours until he quits the game and then justify it by calling him a Griefer or a potential one. "Shouldn't have come near us then..." f*ck off, that makes you the griefer AND a bully.

[Hiply]

10 hours ago, RyuNova said:

Griefing, at least on here and places like Reddit, seems to be doing anything that the "victim" does not like.

So, a not so hypothetical since it happened to me last night:

I am not in Free Roam, I'm in Camp mode and Defensive, max honor, low hostility.  I get a popup telling me one of my Moonshiner customers has been captured and I need to free her.  I get an "E" option to recall straight back from the boonies to my shack, which I use, and boogie to the capture site.  I get there, wipe out the agents while ignoring the two players who are running around in the scenario area.  I start to free my customer and they both close up to standing right next to me.  As soon as she's freed they pump enough lead into her to ballast a small boat, failing my mission for me and immediately turned red.  I blew one of them apart but caught a Volcano round to the head from the other one and died.

Were they griefers or just playing the game as intended?

Edited May 5, 2020 by Hiply

[Direwrath]

10 hours ago, RyuNova said:

It's a murky topic at best.

Griefing, at least on here and places like Reddit, seems to be doing anything that the "victim" does not like. Just being close to someone is "griefing" and grounds to be killed. You could be picking Wild Mint and someone comes near you and you accidentally pick the Mint they want and you get two Sawn Off Shotguns in the back for being a "Griefer"

 

You see people post stories on Reddit about them and a six man Posse delivering some Trader stuff in a long distance sale and some level one rides near them on a Donkey and they kill the level one and repeatedly hunt him down for two hours until he quits the game and then justify it by calling him a Griefer or a potential one. "Shouldn't have come near us then..." f*ck off, that makes you the griefer AND a bully.

This is where the intentions of one player defines the term. For instance, yesterday I was riding out of Valentine when a player on foot came running up to me. At first I slowed the horse so I wouldn't accidentally run the player over, they came around to the side of me and pulled me off of her. I fired a warning shot with my shotgun, spooking my horse away from them before I aimed my gun at them and waited for a response. Initially I thought the player was trying to steal my horse, but couldn't because she was set to "posse only" for interactions. But they were quick to wave and never pulled a gun so I put mine away, waved at them and they kept on running back to Valentine. For all I know the player was just trying to get on the back of my horse to hitch a ride, or they could have been trying to steal my horse? With their intentions unclear, I reacted in a defensive manner and could have killed the player when all they were asking for was a ride back into town. Was the player a griefer? Personally I doubt it because a griefer would have shot my horse after they couldn't steal her then turned their gun on me. I can't blame the player for thinking that my slowing down was a sign to jump on my horse, and they probably didn't blame me for firing the shot and pulling my gun either. This is why I wished there were better ways of getting another player's attention than what we are being given.

 

31 minutes ago, Hiply said:

So, a not so hypothetical since it happened to me last night:

I am not in Free Roam, I'm in Camp mode and Defensive, max honor, low hostility.  I get a popup telling me one of my Moonshiner customers has been captured and I need to free her.  I get an "E" option to recall straight back from the boonies to my shack, which I use, and boogie to the capture site.  I get there, wipe out the agents while ignoring the two players who are running around in the scenario area.  I start to free my customer and they both close up to standing right next to me.  As soon as she's freed they pump enough lead into her to ballast a small boat, failing my mission for me and immediately turned red.  I blew one of them apart but caught a Volcano round to the head from the other one and died.

Were they griefers or just playing the game as intended?

Was there a prompt that other players can kill your target? I don't get that mission much so I cannot remember but if not than yes, they were griefing you just to get a rise. Simply put, there is no incentive to kill that target for them. They won't gain anything if it isn't a part of the mission itself, therefore by killing her all it does is ruin your mission and frustrate you. Just the fact that they waited beside you for you to free her tells me that was their intention in the first place. 

 

Last night in Valentine there were a ton of players and it was a level 7 who was shooting at each and every one of us as we rode in. He shot me when I pulled in to the gun shop, and then when I left to hit the general store. I didn't pay the player any mind, but other players didn't like what he was doing and they just kept killing him, they were still at it when I left. I am left to believe that if you start a fight you better be ready to go.

[Hiply]

1 hour ago, Direwrath said:

Was there a prompt that other players can kill your target? I don't get that mission much so I cannot remember but if not than yes, they were griefing you just to get a rise. Simply put, there is no incentive to kill that target for them. They won't gain anything if it isn't a part of the mission itself, therefore by killing her all it does is ruin your mission and frustrate you. Just the fact that they waited beside you for you to free her tells me that was their intention in the first place. 

 

No, there was no prompt at all.  My lone regret is that I had a repeater out instead of a shotgun with incendiary ammo.

Hindsight being 20/20 I would have hit one with a fire bottle and dove for cover instead of just going straight to guns.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Hiply

[SynVok]

With defensive and parlay available being griefed is a choice in RDO. That said, the game was more interesting when it first rolled out. People used to gather in the towns and there was a lot of interaction. Ever since R* removed dots from the map the game is a snoozer.

[Direwrath]

13 minutes ago, SynVok said:

With defensive and parlay available being griefed is a choice in RDO. That said, the game was more interesting when it first rolled out. People used to gather in the towns and there was a lot of interaction. Ever since R* removed dots from the map the game is a snoozer.

No disrespect but that is a bold statement. A griefer chooses to grief other players, nobody chooses to be griefed upon. Defensive is a joke and so is parley, you can be destroyed in defensive with a simple stick of dynamite. And parley? It takes the player already being killed for that to make a difference. Face it, players choosing to mess with other players for the "thrill" of it are far from being redeemable, those types of players are forcing other players to play "their" game. I have yet to see anyone say that they were begging other players to grief them for the lulz. 

And to compare the beginning of the game to what we have now is not really working, back when the game started we were all on the same ground. Now you have high level players with explosive arrows and cards that give an advantage against lower level players who go without, not to mention the players who have learned to mess with the game somehow and find exploits to use. 

[Surebrec]

griefing to me is what most people would consider to be griefing.

some dickhead, loitering around, usually outside the starting point for a moonshine delivery, or camping at a mission turn-in location, waiting to cause players to fail in their objective for no other reason than to be a disruptive dickhead.

I've such a dickhead try to grief me on more than one occasion whilst starting out on a moonshine delivery. he just sits there and waits for anyone and everyone, with the sole purpose of trying to destroy their delivery. it happened again about 15 minutes ago, he followed me, but he couldn't lock onto me because I was in defensive mode. he instead came right up behind me and threw either a stick of dynamite or a fire bottle that lit my wagon. I managed to wound his horse so he couldn't finish my wagon off before I switched instances.

I was able to go back to my moonshine shack in the new instance, and was able to restart, this time with no sign of said dickhead.

I also managed to find an NPC selling a treasure map, which was some good luck out of it all.

that's what a griefer is to me, and I suspect that's what many peoples idea of what a griefer is.

having said that, R* themselves are to blame, for allowing the game to function like this. that doesn't mean that because people can choose to be dicks, they HAVE to, dickheads are still dickheads in their own right.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Surebrec

[Hiply]

1 hour ago, Surebrec said:

that doesn't mean that because people can choose to be dicks, they HAVE to, dickheads are still dickheads in their own right.

Quoted for Truth.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Hiply

[RyuNova]

2 hours ago, Hiply said:

Were they griefers or just playing the game as intended?

 

As @Direwrathsaid, if the game didn't tell them to (which I still think is a sh*tty cop out) then yes its griefing.

 

 

[Lonely-Martin]

12 hours ago, RyuNova said:

You see people post stories on Reddit about them and a six man Posse delivering some Trader stuff in a long distance sale and some level one rides near them on a Donkey and they kill the level one and repeatedly hunt him down for two hours until he quits the game and then justify it by calling him a Griefer or a potential one. "Shouldn't have come near us then..." f*ck off, that makes you the griefer AND a bully.

Online gaming is plagued by that crap in general. I see it all the time where folk boast that it's all fair game, but it's complete bollocks and those in said posse's/crews/groups that do this are in full denial IMHO.

 

Online is such an hotbed for bullying like this. When I hear them in GTA, a group of adults targetting a lone kid usually, along with all sorts of disturbing talk and messages (as I've been caught up in all that when they assume I'm the kid), it's pretty disturbing sometimes. There really is no excuses when it goes like that.

 

You can literally feel them drooling at the prospect of knowing they can bully without consequence, gearing up by saying sh*t like 'who can we f*ck over now' 'let's rape that little f*cker' and so on. And as R* (and other companies) don't do enough, they're definitely complicit, as much as ignorant parents of course as we parents should be more aware of what online gaming is all about regardless of what games they play and pay attention to what our kids are exposed to. But without a platform to be a disgusting human to another, it wouldn't be such an issue as that toxic side to a playerbase is deterred more and more and the rise of the griefer/try hard/bad sports wouldn't have as much chance to grow into the sub-culture it is now.

1 hour ago, SynVok said:

With defensive and parlay available being griefed is a choice in RDO.

 

*facepalm*

[Surebrec]

2 hours ago, SynVok said:

With defensive and parlay available being griefed is a choice in RDO. That said, the game was more interesting when it first rolled out. People used to gather in the towns and there was a lot of interaction. Ever since R* removed dots from the map the game is a snoozer.

griefing is a choice of the griefer, not those being griefed. griefers can still f*ck other players up whether or not they are in defensive. victims being in defensive mode just makes it harder.

[CosmicBuffalo]

5 hours ago, Hiply said:

So, a not so hypothetical since it happened to me last night:

I am not in Free Roam, I'm in Camp mode and Defensive, max honor, low hostility.  I get a popup telling me one of my Moonshiner customers has been captured and I need to free her.  I get an "E" option to recall straight back from the boonies to my shack, which I use, and boogie to the capture site.  I get there, wipe out the agents while ignoring the two players who are running around in the scenario area.  I start to free my customer and they both close up to standing right next to me.  As soon as she's freed they pump enough lead into her to ballast a small boat, failing my mission for me and immediately turned red.  I blew one of them apart but caught a Volcano round to the head from the other one and died.

Were they griefers or just playing the game as intended?

Griefers. 

Spoiler

I dont think the game is telling them anything. They realized you were doing something and interrupted you.  This is similar to gang hide out sharing that was a big part of the beta.  People would rage if you looted the bodies in a hideout and you didnt kill anyone and call you a griefer if you looted dead bodies and they were technically right.  To be fair to the ragers, money was scarce in beta.  If there is no prompt, thenthe player is technically griefing.  If the game is telling you, attack this person...then thats gameplay, and trying to separate the two is just too dicey even if they simply blow up your stuff.  Once the mission ends, then this where it really starts to become a question.  If player attacks another player, as they did here, they are opening the door for you to attack them.  So, then it becomes a question of (as another post was made) when it does it become griefing when the attacked becomes the attacker?

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by CosmicBuffalo