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GTA VI Protagonist & Diversity


yungsufoto

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gunziness

I would have liked a female character, but before the term "feminism" became a thing in videogames like it is in a few (big budgeted) games today. I feel the idea of making women look suitable for hero-antihero roles in videogames nowadays is dishonest (at least in a lot of cases) and only done to put a check mark on the agenda topic and nothing else. There are many many games with genuinely good female protagonists way before this happened (at least that I know of), but I believe that if Rockstar does it in a GTA game in these times it will not be genuine from them and thus will result in another case of getting along with the agenda and in result get marketing (good or bad, but marketing) and good boy points, which is a thing they never needed because well... its Rockstar after all, they never needed nor wanted this to make millions.
Things change though, R* did change since GTA Online's success, so we will see whats ahead with the next GTA. I hope that for whatever thing they do, they do it genuinely. 
 

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Jabalous
39 minutes ago, Raavi said:

Keep moving those goalposts.

If you notice, a Grand Theft Auto protagonist does not involve himself in one or two type of crimes, bur rather nearly all of them. Assassinations? Check. Drugs? Check. Thefts? Check. Blackmailing? Check. Serial Killing? Check. Terrorism acts? Check. Intimidation? Check, and the list goes on and on. The most obvious and overused act of crime in Grand Theft Auto is armed violence, and based on the links you provided and other sources that are publicly available on the internet, women have a rare participation in this type of crime. Sure, R*'s writers can write a brilliant fictional story with a female protagonist, but I'd not bet on it and I think we'd get a character that is as silly as Catalina, or basically a female Trevor. Odds are geared toward male protagonists, and it is for a good reason.

Edited by Jabalous
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TheSantader25

So I gotta ask a question from both parties, which is harder to write? 

 

A very good male protagonist? Or a very good female lead? 

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DexMacLeod
6 minutes ago, gunziness said:

I would have liked a female character, but before the term "feminism" became a thing in videogames like it is in a few (big budgeted) games today. I feel the idea of making women look suitable for hero-antihero roles in videogames nowadays is dishonest (at least in a lot of cases) and only done to put a check mark on the agenda topic and nothing else. There are many many games with genuinely good female protagonists way before this happened (at least that I know of), but I believe that if Rockstar does it in a GTA game in these times it will not be genuine from them and thus will result in another case of getting along with the agenda and in result get marketing (good or bad, but marketing) and good boy points, which is a thing they never needed because well... its Rockstar after all, they never needed nor wanted this to make millions.
Things change though, R* did change since GTA Online's success, so we will see whats ahead with the next GTA. I hope that for whatever thing they do, they do it genuinely. 
 

I don't think it really matters. If they add a woman protagonist there's gonna be an uproar of people complaining that Rockstar caved to the SJWs no matter how well written she is. If they don't people are going to complain that they're just catering to fragile male egos who somehow think a videogame character threatens their place in the pecking order or that it's just "more of the same".

 

3 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

If you notice, a Grand Theft Auto protagonist does not involve himself in one or two type of crimes, bur rather nearly all of them. Assassinations? Check. Drugs? Check. Thefts? Check. Blackmailing? Check. Serial Killing? Check. Terrorism acts? Check. Intimidation? Check, and the list goes on and on. The most obvious and overused act of crime in Grand Theft Auto is armed violence, and based on the links you provided and other sources that are publicly available on the internet, women have a rare participation in this type of crime. Sure, R*'s writers can write a brilliant fictional story with a female protagonist, but I'd not bet on it and I think we'd get a character that is as silly as Catalina. Odds are geared toward male protagonists, and it is for a good reason.

In GTA when you rob a bank you're responsible for stealing the car you use, driving to the bank, crowd control, blowing the vault, emptying the vault, killing all of the cops that show up, and driving the getaway vehicle. The character we're playing as having a penis doesn't somehow make any of that realistic.

 

And, as you've agreed to, females in violent crime do exist, they're just rare (and noticeably less rare in the GTA Universe). They don't need an entire army of badass women to carry a GTA game. It only takes one.

 

You're right in that she could come off as silly, but personally, I think damn near everything in GTA comes off as silly so she'd fit right in if that's the case.

 

6 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

So I gotta ask a question from both parties, which is harder to write? 

 

A very good male protagonist? Or a very good female lead? 

I think it depends how they choose to approach it. I think if they choose to make a female's gender a big deal and really dig into what it means to be a female criminal in that world it would be tougher. But, if they just write her as a human being first and make her gender a secondary issue I don't think it would be any harder for them than writing a male character who also happens to not be exactly like them.

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Lonely-Martin
23 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

So I gotta ask a question from both parties, which is harder to write? 

 

A very good male protagonist? Or a very good female lead? 

I think it's more that it's hard to create a truly engaging story that finds near universal acclaim etc. like GTA can or Tomb Raider etc. Movies are much the same too.

 

Weather it's Lara Croft or Ellie, Sarah Connor or Ellen Ripley, or their male counterparts in other leading franchises. They get a more universal praise simply because all the elements come together so well that it goes beyond the sex/sexual orientation of a character.

Edited by Lonely-Martin
Wording.
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gunziness
23 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

So I gotta ask a question from both parties, which is harder to write? 

 

A very good male protagonist? Or a very good female lead? 

I'm not a writer so I wouldn't know exactly, but that would depend on what the thing or story is about, as long as it fits whatever you want to potray it shouldn't make a difference I believe.

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Spider-Vice

Women can write men accurately just like men can write women accurately... Let's not even go into that. In fact, why is there even a difference between who writes what or how easy it is to write a protagonist of a given gender? A woman who does the same criminal mischief as a man isn't less of a woman because of it. She can be written just like a male character and vice versa.

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Kirsty

A funny perspective is that a lot of people suggest that sexuality shouldn't be part of GTA, yet they use their own sexuality to determine why GTA shouldn't have a female protagonist. In other words, when we say "female protagonist", they can only imagine women they find f*ckable in the role, and these might have traits that are traditionally viewed as "feminine" in nature, like no muscles, revealing clothing, damsels-in-distress and all that tripe. That then leads them to imagine that women can't possibly be protagonists, because these women that they find f*ckable are incapable beating up gangs and firing weaponry, and thus too unrealistic for the GTA universe, since they can't live without the protection of a man.

 

Similar delusions can be applied to thinking about gay protagonists. They can't stand the thought that our protagonist might love the D, while simultaneously suggesting sexuality shouldn't be a "thing", as if this fictional character's preferences are in any shape or form a reflection of themselves.

 

 

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The Wolf Man

A lot of arguments but not a single one is convincing enough to me.

 

It is completely viable to adapt a female protagonist to the GTA series. Why not? Because most women don't rob banks or aren't used with weapons and such? It's a videogame.

 

What about Lara Croft? She hunts, kills and does everything that Nathan Drake does. Nobody ever complained about her being "unfitting" for the role. Why is it different with GTA?

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Ash_735

Look, here's the thing, Rockstar CAN make anything work, for all those of you saying numbers wise it doesn't make sense to have a woman or a gay protagonist, again, count the previous games and how many of them had straight males. If you want to use the numbers argument then we're overdue either a woman or a queer protagonist.

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Spider-Vice
1 hour ago, Kirsty said:

In other words, when we say "female protagonist", they can only imagine women they find f*ckable in the role, and these might have traits that are traditionally viewed as "feminine" in nature, like no muscles, revealing clothing, damsels-in-distress and all that tripe. 

Which is exactly why Lara Croft was suddenly such a good idea to everyone in the earlier games. There were literally complaints they "downscaled" her in the recent games...

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Kirsty
5 minutes ago, Spider-Vice said:

Which is exactly why Lara Croft was suddenly such a good idea to everyone in the earlier games. There were literally complaints they "downscaled" her in the recent games...

Oh no, not the triangle boobies! The only reason she's playable is because of those lovely triangle boobies! 

 

I've seen some unfortunate TLOU2 comments about a certain characters appearance, so even if we did get a female protagonist, this sadly also wouldn't be the end of the conversation because these people wouldn't stop there in using their own sexuality to talk about how un/attractive they find her.

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SonofLosSantos

Taliana vilasquez or however you say her name, had an interesting character from what we’ve seen. Handled herself well during heists. Took down enemies, handled the hell out of a car, any and all things our 3 protagonists were tasked with, she matched them. The argument that Elizabeta was “fat” is hardly relevant as body type could be changed and she’d still be the same boss ass bitch. She’s probably one of my favorite characters in the entire series. AND SHE WAS A LESBIAN! we could kill two birds with one stone like that!!!!

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Ash_735
20 minutes ago, Tao Cheng said:

Thought we had a gay protagonist called Trever. 

His re-introduction into the game is literally barebacking a junkie meth biker chick. People have a weird idea about what's "gay". Trevor is more chaotic anything goes, he'll f*ck anyone in the same way he'll torture or eat anyone.

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The Wolf Man

TLOU2 is a different thing. Every GTA has a new plot and a new set of characters, but TLOU2 is a sequel to an already established story and they forced/introduced a character into the game in the worst possible way.

 

Spoiler

Everybody around here lost their minds when Trevor killed Johnny just to show us that he was a badass. Saying that the "twist" that happened in TLOU2 is legit or creative is hipocrisy at minimum.

 

Edited by The Wolf Man
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Officer Ronson
3 hours ago, Kirsty said:

A funny perspective is that a lot of people suggest that sexuality shouldn't be part of GTA, yet they use their own sexuality to determine why GTA shouldn't have a female protagonist. In other words, when we say "female protagonist", they can only imagine women they find f*ckable in the role, and these might have traits that are traditionally viewed as "feminine" in nature, like no muscles, revealing clothing, damsels-in-distress and all that tripe. That then leads them to imagine that women can't possibly be protagonists, because these women that they find f*ckable are incapable beating up gangs and firing weaponry, and thus too unrealistic for the GTA universe, since they can't live without the protection of a man.

Coming from a South American country my view of criminal women is anything but, most women who are on organized crime are usually 30 to 40 year old cunning overweight mothers who know how to lay low and press their authority on anyone that f*cks up, men for them are just cannon fodder, soldiers to send out, even in some cases their own children! It spans like that in various countries of this region, a real anomality between them was La Catrina, but La Catrina was mostly show and she was always with her own squad of assassins, even when she got shot she got carried by a cop to a helicopter for medevac. 

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billiejoearmstrong8
5 hours ago, Tao Cheng said:

Well you have the option to crossdress

Crossdressing doesn't tell you someone's sexuality, you can be straight, gay or anything and crossdress. Trevor is neither straight nor gay, he likes men and women. He states in the game that he prefers not to be labelled, but accurate terms to describe him would be bisexual or pansexual. 

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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Jabalous

Given that Grand Theft Auto is a blend of Crime drama, thriller and action, it is worth to note that one would find it hard to name a highly rated movie or TV show in which a female character plays a role that requires the use of violence and weaponry. They can be seen playing a role within a criminal group/organization, but they usually handle the business side of things. Take Lydia of Breaking Bad-Better Call Saul as an example, she's a criminal by definition, but what does she do? She uses her position as the head of logistics at a multinational company in order to assist Gus Fring in expanding his meth distribution network and the procuring of chemicals and equipment to support his lab operations. There are no females playing a violent role in this top rated TV series, and the writers understand that it's for a good reason. In the show, the females can be seen serving their natural role, as in business (Lydia), mothers (Skyler) and lawyers (Kim Wexler). There's no point in appeasing to certain ideas about equality and representation if it does not come off as natural by not conforming to the criminal tendencies in the real world. In most cases, the best writing in crime fiction is inspired by reality. 

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Wucas wester

i would like it but only if it doesnt feel force lmao that doesnt sound like rockstar

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billiejoearmstrong8
5 hours ago, Jabalous said:

In the show, the females can be seen serving their natural role, as in business (Lydia), mothers (Skyler) and lawyers (Kim Wexler). 

Oh please 🙄. Do you really think female street criminals, violent criminals, gang members and organised crime members don't exist? Or in the military, law enforcement or other dangerous physical jobs? Just because men are in those roles more often it doesn't mean women never are.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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José_Sócrates
15 hours ago, Spider-Vice said:

Which is exactly why Lara Croft was suddenly such a good idea to everyone in the earlier games. There were literally complaints they "downscaled" her in the recent games...

Not really. Most of those complains are because Lara was badass in the first games and then they turned her into an inconsistently written mass murderer in the reboots. Saying those complaints are due to "mah triangular boobies" is just a weak strawman.

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Zello
9 hours ago, Jabalous said:

Given that Grand Theft Auto is a blend of Crime drama, thriller and action, it is worth to note that one would find it hard to name a highly rated movie or TV show in which a female character plays a role that requires the use of violence and weaponry. 

 

Felicia "Snoop" Pearson.

 

giphy.gif

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snoop_(The_Wire)

Edited by Zello
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SonofLosSantos
5 minutes ago, Zello said:

 

Felicia "Snoop" Pearson.

 

giphy.gif

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snoop_(The_Wire)

He seems to think that women should stick to the more secular timid quiet roles as opposed to being on the front line. Be seen not heard kind of deal. But I’d love a female protagonist in the vein of Felecia.

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