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GTA VI Protagonist & Diversity


yungsufoto

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José_Sócrates

To be honest, having a gay protagonist would be nothing new. As it was already said, we had Trevor. But I mean, Toni Cipriani was most definitely gay, super gay, he just never left the closet. And Mike, come on, it's pretty clear that he and Vinnie were having a sexual relationship, the tension between those two said everything. And how can people forget Tommy Vercetti? He was in prison for what, 15 years? It's obvious that he liked catching the soap. That's probably why he got along with Lance Vance, he wanted a piece of that ass. And what about Johnny? Why would he be so sad when Jim died? See, the common misconception is that people think he became a crack addict because of Ashley, but that is wrong, it was because his secret boyfriend was dead and he had nobody to turn to, so he turned to the crystal. Ashley tried to stop him, but he just couldn't forget Jim and the good times they had. That's why he let himself die like that, to assume his homosexuality, and to finally reunite with Kim again. And even in GTA V, you can tell Michael is gay. He is. That's why he let the yoga coach f*ck his wife. That's why he just doesn't kick Jimmy out and instead, tries to develop a relationship with him. Why would he do that otherwise? He wouldn't, he likes Jimmy, but he is too afraid to leave the closet.

See? A lot of GTA protagonists are gay, so if the protagonist of the next game is gay, that would definitely be ok.

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Niobium
4 hours ago, Aquamaniac said:

 

What about a KKK protagonist, it might made a good story as well but certainly will not happen, the KKK is as real as homosexuals, yet nobody seriously suggests it.

the fu*k's wrong with you

Edited by Niobium
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billiejoearmstrong8
2 hours ago, Officer Ronson said:

To be fair they did make gay pedestrians in IV overly flamboyant and a joke by giving them female pedestrian pain & scream voice sets. The Gay pedestrians in V are also overly flamboyant and then there's the crossdresser male prostitutes. 

This is true and it is a bit cringy looking at it now, although to be fair they did include quite a few more nuanced gay and bisexual characters in the main cast in IV. And they did a decent job of including a protagonist who isn't straight with Trevor in V imo, not exactly conventional or role model material but I like that it's just an extra facet of his character and not made into a big deal or a joke in itself. And it is GTA where almost every character and ped is exaggarated and caricaturish to some extent. Also these are 12 and 7 year old games. I think although by 2013 they still weren't perfect when it came to representing LGBT characters they had made a lot of progress, and that they'll continue to move with the times and improve in the next game.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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SonofLosSantos

Lord have mercy the bigotry is strong here. I can’t say I didn’t expect it but my goodness... why does it matter?!?

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Wolfman_

I never cared much about hookers in GTA. Don't know why it is such a big deal all of the sudden.

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Jabalous
On 5/1/2020 at 1:41 PM, Schwartzxz said:

f*ck no. if Rockstar starts doing that sh*t where they have to represent the women and the gays and other endangered species Ill never ever buy or play another game from them. movies have been doing that sh*t and I barely even watch any new movie these days. Im sick of it.

Redemption 2 has already dabbled into this 'forced diversity for the sake of it' within the Dutch gang. You can eliminate several characters within the gang and the story wouldn't lose a thing, but will actually gain more historical ground. Some people want to see diversity even if it doesn't fit a story that should be based on actual history, at least to a believable degree. It's one primary thing that I hated about the story, that is, meaningless diversity and the overdramatization of some events and characters. 

Edited by Jabalous
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GhettoJesus
1 hour ago, Niobium said:

the fu*k's wrong with you

Didn't you know? Gays are burning crosses in front of straight people homes and stuff. Duh.

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billiejoearmstrong8
44 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

Redemption 2 has already dabbled into this 'forced diversity for the sake of it' within the Dutch gang. You can eliminate several characters within the gang and the story wouldn't lose a thing, but will actually gain more historical ground. Some people want to see diversity even if it doesn't fit a story that should be based on actual history, at least to a believable degree. It's one primary thing that I hated about the story, that is, meaningless diversity and the overdramatization of some events and characters. 

You know that people who aren't straight white men being left out of the story by writers/historians is a thing right? Just because tv and films and a lot of historical reporting/retellings have portrayed history as being devoid of diversity doesn't mean it really was. "Forced diversity" in fiction can be a bit lame depending on how it's done but so is every character in everything being a straight white male by default. Of course racism and sexism were rife but there was plenty of diversity in the old west what with Mexico, the Native American population, the Black population and immigrants coming to the country and also plenty of stories of women who made an impact. 1950s westerns don't tell the whole story.

 

They're not going to make the main characters as bigoted as they could've been in those times because it's just not possible to make them at all likeable if they do that. But not everyone was totally unaccepting of people different to themselves, it's a gang of people who defy authority and convention so it isn't all that far fetched.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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Jabalous
44 minutes ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

You know that people who aren't straight white men being left out of the story by writers/historians is a thing right? Just because tv and films and a lot of historical reporting/retellings have portrayed history as being devoid of diversity doesn't mean it really was. "Forced diversity" in fiction can be a bit lame depending on how its done but so is every character in everything being a straight white male by default. Of course racism and sexism was rife but there was plenty of diversity in the old west what with Mexico, the Native American population, the Black population and immigrants coming to the country and also plenty of stories of women who made an impact. 1950s westerns don't tell the whole story.

Sure there were black and female outlaws and cowboys in that time, but they were also a minority, and surely there was no a wandering band of outlaws that consisted of nearly every race, sex and age group that existed back in the day, like the one depicted by the Dutch gang. The O'Driscolls were the closest to the reality of what an old Western gang was like, and it's what I imagined the Dutch gnag was like as recited by John in his adventure. It's obvious that the writers were catering to the Forced Diversity trend which, I believe, has plagued the entertainment industry and media. If every writer is following the same trend, then we would basically be consuming the same type of entertainment except only in a different skin. At one point, R* was leading and forming their own trends, but lately that hasn't been the case. They have been more cautious and conservative in what they're depicting, which is unfortunate. 

Edited by Jabalous
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TheSantader25

It's kinda sad that instead of talking about Gameplay and actual things that matter in the story we are fighting over this. Is this really a big deal? So what if the protagonist is white, straight, gay, a woman or whatever the f*ck R* desire. It means jacksh*t if they f*ck up some of the things that really define a video game's quality. Those are the things that deserve 6 pages of argument. Not this. 

Edited by TheSantader25
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IzzyBlues

Why does everyone keep referring to Trevor as gay? He was bisexual.

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Gtaman_92
15 hours ago, D T said:

We recently had a straight protagonist which was Arthur, I see no reason to add one again unless R* has a good reason too in terms of the story.


Gay people are a very small minority, they only make up like 3 percent of America’s population so the chances of the next protagonist being straight is 98 percent since it’s more heterosexual people in America, I have nothing against a gay lead character but it would make more sense if the character was straight for the next one.

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billiejoearmstrong8
13 hours ago, Gtaman_92 said:


Gay people are a small minority, they only make up like 3 percent of America’s population so the chances of the next protagonist being straight is 98 percent since it’s more heterosexual people in America, it’s common sense.

What percentage of people in America are Serbian war veterans? Way less than 0.1%. They still made a GTA protagonist one.

 

13 hours ago, Jabalous said:

Sure there were black and female outlaws and cowboys in that time, but they were also a minority, and surely there was no a wandering band of outlaws that consisted of nearly every race, sex and age group that existed back in the day, like the one depicted by the Dutch gang. The O'Driscolls were the closest to the reality of what an old Western gang was like, and it's what I imagined the Dutch gnag was like as recited by John in his adventure. It's obvious that the writers were catering to the Forced Diversity trend which, I believe, has plagued the entertainment industry and media. If every writer is following the same trend, then we would basically be consuming the same type of entertainment except only in a different skin. At one point, R* was leading and forming their own trends, but lately that hasn't been the case. They have been more cautious and conservative in what they're depicting, which is unfortunate. 

Surely there was more diversity and mixing of different races than depicted either in many biased historical accounts or in tv and movies made at a time when white males were given wildly disproportionate representation. 

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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Gtaman_92
2 minutes ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

What percentage of people in America are Serbian war veterans? Way less than 0.1%. They still made a GTA protagonist one.


Ok, your point is? We recently had a gay protagonist which was Trevor and Rockstar is known for making each protagonist different for each game. If anything I think the next lead character should be either of someone of South American decent or a women since we haven’t had any of those yet. 

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Wolfman_

Trevor is bisexual and he is a completely over the top character.

I think the suggestion here is to have a gay protagonist that is grounded and serious like Niko or Arthur Morgan.

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Gettin up
3 hours ago, The Wolf Man said:

I never cared much about hookers in GTA. Don't know why it is such a big deal all of the sudden.

I think hookers and strippers actually play a big role in a game like GTA. Because, you know. Beautiful female get males to play such games.

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Zello
53 minutes ago, Gettin up said:

I think hookers and strippers actually play a big role in a game like GTA. Because, you know. Beautiful female get males to play such games.

The average hooker is ugly and on drugs 

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Viceportcoke

Wouldn't mind playing a gay protagonist as long as he or she fits the story and is well grounded, they dont have to create a flamboyant character... How about a character like Gustavo fring from breaking bad or omar from the wire both are gay characters and arguably the best from their respected series.

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SonofLosSantos
3 hours ago, Jabalous said:

Sure there were black and female outlaws and cowboys in that time, but they were also a minority, and surely there was no a wandering band of outlaws that consisted of nearly every race, sex and age group that existed back in the day, like the one depicted by the Dutch gang. The O'Driscolls were the closest to the reality of what an old Western gang was like, and it's what I imagined the Dutch gnag was like as recited by John in his adventure. It's obvious that the writers were catering to the Forced Diversity trend which, I believe, has plagued the entertainment industry and media. If every writer is following the same trend, then we would basically be consuming the same type of entertainment except only in a different skin. At one point, R* was leading and forming their own trends, but lately that hasn't been the case. They have been more cautious and conservative in what they're depicting, which is unfortunate. 

I still don’t understand why you’re considering it to be “forced” diversity, as if diversity amongst poor and minority people hasn’t been that way since the beginning of time. I don’t mean to sound like an ass, but it just sounds like you’re speaking from lack of experience on how people interact with one another to assume that diversity is some alien concept formed from people who have some ludicrous agenda. If YOU aren’t comfortable with it just say that, but coming from someone of mixed race, it’s weird seeing people talk about it as if it’s unnatural or that it was never commonplace.

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Jabalous
47 minutes ago, SonofLosSantos said:

I still don’t understand why you’re considering it to be “forced” diversity, as if diversity amongst poor and minority people hasn’t been that way since the beginning of time. I don’t mean to sound like an ass, but it just sounds like you’re speaking from lack of experience on how people interact with one another to assume that diversity is some alien concept formed from people who have some ludicrous agenda. If YOU aren’t comfortable with it just say that, but coming from someone of mixed race, it’s weird seeing people talk about it as if it’s unnatural or that it was never commonplace.

Forced Diversity is when a story, that is supposedly representative of a time period in a particular place, is written without a historical basis of how society was actually like. I gave an example of the Dutch gang, but there is also the example of the inclusion of black characters in the Witcher series on Netflix, which does not relate to The Witcher books. That's clearly forced diversity for the sake of it. Imagine if Mafia 2 game had Asian or Latino characters in the Italian Mafia family ranks, would you be OK about it? I wouldn't, because I'd like to experience a story that is actually inspired by real history and not a distorted version of it. 

Edited by Jabalous
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Wolfman_

There are black people and gay people in the gang because Dutch is an intellectual/idealistic leader, but the world around them is a very accurate perception of the late 1800s.

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Ash_735
19 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

Forced Diversity is when a story, that is supposedly representative of a time period in a particular place, is written without a historical basis of how society was actually like. I gave an example of the Dutch gang, but there is also the example of the inclusion of black characters in the Witcher series on Netflix, which does not relate to The Witcher books. That's clearly forced diversity for the sake of it. Imagine if Mafia 2 game had Asian or Latino characters in the Italian Mafia family ranks, would you be OK about it? I wouldn't, because I'd like to experience a story that is actually inspired by real history and not a distorted version of it. 

And again on this, your view is from what? Old Movies? Real history depicts there were a lot of black outlaws at that time period, where do you think a good chunk of escaped slaves went? And using your example of Mafia 2, that game DID have Asians and Latino representation via other gangs in the story in a realistic manner.

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Collibosher
18 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

Forced Diversity is when a story, that is supposedly representative of a time period in a particular place, is written without a historical basis of how society was actually like. I gave an example of the Dutch gang, but there is also the example of the inclusion of black characters in the Witcher series on Netflix, which does not relate to The Witcher books. That's clearly forced diversity for the sake of it.  

For the sake of it? You don't think it could be for the sake of marketing/money? No, that's what the producers probably thought; "Let's FORCE black characters here without any reason, just for the sake of it haha!" Also isn't Witcher a some sort of fantasy series, not based on our universe?

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Kirsty

I've amended the topic title because I think this is an interesting and necessary conversation to have when it comes to future GTA protagonists, but please keep it civil and without insults. Report posts that cross the line and we will deal with them. 

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Orbea Occam

This whole rhetoric of ethnic minorities only being included in things to push a diversity agenda just reveals people as ignorant bigots. 

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Officer Ronson
Just now, Dark Rosewood Varnish said:

This whole rhetoric of ethnic minorities only being included in things to push a diversity agenda just reveals people as ignorant bigots. 

I'm not here to take their side but after the TLOU2 leaks maybe, just maybe there's people who are actually trying to push an agenda? Games have become even politicized by the day 

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Retro_Causality

I don't think Rockstar approaches their games like that...I don't think they go "ok we have 1 white protag, now its time for a black guy"

 

I think they just create the characters they want to for the game. I mean GTA V featured 2 middle age white guys in their 40s and a 20s black guy.


GTA 6 could have 3 white guys, if thats the story R* wants to tell

Edited by Retro_Causality
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Wolfman_
33 minutes ago, Officer Ronson said:

I'm not here to take their side but after the TLOU2 leaks maybe, just maybe there's people who are actually trying to push an agenda? Games have become even politicized by the day 

I don't know if there is such a thing as "a group of people trying to push an agenda", but TLOU2 (leaks) is clearly an example of someone trying to force his/her personal ideologies in an already established franchise. They tried so hard that they forgot some simple rules of storytelling and completely abandoned the themes of the first game.

Edited by The Wolf Man
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Raavi

7 pages of fragile masculinity and dudes that have deeper closets than Narnia.

 

Actually f*ck it, let's keep this going. Fair warning: my trigger finger is especially itchy after reading some of the sh*t in here. 

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Retro_Causality

I think diversity is extremely important and its always a good thing to want to create representation as wide as possible

 

all im saying is, I don't think that's how Rockstar approaches their development and writing of their games

 

 

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