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yungsufoto

GTA VI Protagonist & Diversity

Recommended Posts

Dark Rosewood Varnish
56 minutes ago, DexMacLeod said:

I feel like all you did here was call me shortsighted, repeat a couple points I made and then ignore all the other points I made. I literally addressed the women versus old people question twice within the post you quoted.

 

Fact remains you dismiss peoples arguments about women not being as physically able as men but then use those exact reasonings to make a case against having an older protagonist. `You also completely ignored the video I posted of a man who is probably about 70 physically dominating a man who looks about 30 and then ignored the points I raised about what Mike was involved with in BCS. 

 

I also didnt repeat your point, you said an older character would only work if they changed some mechanics - I said an older character would give them reasoning to do this, so I was actually agreeing with you in a way. What you need to do is get back in the other thread about GTA being more serious and address the numerous posters who called you out on your bizarre comments about ludonarrative dissonance.

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DexMacLeod
49 minutes ago, Dark Rosewood Varnish said:

Fact remains you dismiss peoples arguments about women not being as physically able as men but then use those exact reasonings to make a case against having an older protagonist. `You also completely ignored the video I posted of a man who is probably about 70 physically dominating a man who looks about 30 and then ignored the points I raised about what Mike was involved with in BCS. 

The arguments against a woman were her ability to fight and pull random NPCs from their cars. That's something I think a woman could do in a relatively believable way. It's not nearly the same as an old person ducking in and out of cover smoothly or moving faster than a slow jog. I don't know how many more ways I can come up with to express why the context is different.

 

I didn't see the relevance of your video. It was an old and experienced boxer fighting someone who's clearly not a boxer. My arguments against an elderly character had nothing to do with hand to hand combat, it was their ability to move around. I want a character who's more agile, not less.

 

I'm not sure what Better Call Saul scenes you're referring to. You were pretty vague on that so I can't give a specific response. From what I remember Mike remained pretty stationary anytime he did something resembling an action scene.

 

Again, I've never said that it absolutely couldn't work and even provided a few ways it could work. Some we seem to agree on, at least slightly. I'd just prefer a more versatile protagonist than we typically get in a GTA.

 

52 minutes ago, Dark Rosewood Varnish said:

What you need to do is get back in the other thread about GTA being more serious and address the numerous posters who called you out on your bizarre comments about ludonarrative dissonance.

I don't see how that's relevant to this conversation but that thread somehow devolved into something even worse than this one did at certain points. I don't really want any part of it.

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D T
9 hours ago, Ash_735 said:

 

Journey_95 meets John Marston (1911, colorized)

 

Spoiler

The funniest thing is if Rockstar made this joke today they'd get sh*tted on for being too woke and catering to SJWs.

 

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billiejoearmstrong8
On 5/29/2020 at 2:35 PM, RenegadeAngel said:

It made me wonder, have Rockstar ever touched jews?? The only jews in the whole franchise that I can think of are Johnny and the guys who bought the diamonds in GTA IV. Gotta play it safe though, because these guys run the whole world😂

As well as just being Jewish Johnny also fights against an anti-semitic biker gang and deals with anti-semitic comments from Billy Grey as part of the story. There's the Jewish mob (which the guys who buy the diamonds are part of), a lawyer that Niko assassinates, and Jewish peds on the streets. Brucie and Mori Kibbutz are also Jewish (the latter very proudly so), and I think Tony Prince mentions he is at one point as well. 

 

And don't forget Ken Rosenberg from Vice City/San Andreas. I don't know if there's more I'm not thinking of or not. They really only make up a small percentage of the US population (and I would assume a very tiny percentage of organised criminals/street criminals) so makes sense there's not a huge number. 

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GhettoJesus
45 minutes ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

As well as just being Jewish Johnny also fights against an anti-semitic biker gang and deals with anti-semitic comments from Billy Grey as part of the story. There's the Jewish mob (which the guys who buy the diamonds are part of), a lawyer that Niko assassinates, and Jewish peds on the streets. Brucie and Mori Kibbutz are also Jewish (the latter very proudly so), and I think Tony Prince mentions he is at one point as well. 

 

And don't forget Ken Rosenberg from Vice City/San Andreas. I don't know if there's more I'm not thinking of or not. They really only make up a small percentage of the US population (and I would assume a very tiny percentage of organised criminals/street criminals) so makes sense there's not a huge number. 

Wonder if Molly Schultz could be Jewish. Jewish people preferred to choose 1 (sometimes 2) syllable German surnames.

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billiejoearmstrong8
1 hour ago, GhettoJesus said:

Wonder if Molly Schultz could be Jewish. Jewish people preferred to choose 1 (sometimes 2) syllable German surnames.

Yeah could be. Although there's quite a lot of people in the US with German surnames who aren't Jewish as well.

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D T
On 5/9/2020 at 10:06 PM, Pink Pineapple said:

Look what happened to Battlefield V when they decided to "get woke". That game had a price reduction 2 weeks after release and it's sales were 14% lower than EA's predictions.

 

It's so weird man. The first game starred a male protagonist and sold 1.3M in it's opening week. And now the second game stars a gay female protagonist and has already sold 4M units in just the first three days. It's almost like including a diverse cast of characters didn't somehow diminish sales numbers? Almost like none of this sh*t actually matters and people will buy a game regardless of who they play as.

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Mid Night Club

I am not buying GTA 6 if it's not about Tommy Vercetti after the events of Vice City. :) Maybe up until he gets downed like Tony Montana in scarface through a final showdown , and *roll credits*

 

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Len Lfc
Posted (edited)
On 6/27/2020 at 11:22 AM, D T said:
 

It's so weird man. The first game starred a male protagonist and sold 1.3M in it's opening week. And now the second game stars a gay female protagonist and has already sold 4M units in just the first three days. It's almost like including a diverse cast of characters didn't somehow diminish sales numbers? Almost like none of this sh*t actually matters and people will buy a game regardless of who they play as.

While I do agree. Comparing BFV to TLoU PII is a poor comparison. TLoU was hated by bigots and idiots. BFV was disliked for a multitude of reasons. It was a rushed buggy mess of a game, that lacked any content. That attempted to portray WWII, yet it looked and felt nothing like it. DICE tried to change history, in an effort to appeal to everyone, then took the moral high ground and accused anyone who disagreed with them of "being on the wrong side of history". People just wanted an authentic WWII experience. They weren't sexist for feeling it wasn't a true WWII experience because there were women fighting on the frontlines of WWII. Even one of the war stories featured a female team on a particular mission. Where the real life history of it, it was a male team. Again, people were just upset that it seemed DICE were changing history to make themselves look like they 'cared'. People weren't mad at there being women in the game, they just wanted it to be portrayed faithfully. BFV didn't look like a representation of WWII. The skins didn't help, and neither did the "untold stories and unseen locations". People wanted the iconic locations. 

 

The reality of life, is that it's never black and white. It's always shades of grey. Of course some fans were straight up sexist. But most weren't. Unfortunately, it was just seen as dudes hating women in their game. And the world we live in, people don't want to listen or take the time to learn or understand.

Battlefield fans just wanted a WWII game that looked like WWII, felt like WWII, and had the moments they had dreamed of since BF 1942, in a modern Frostbite engine. Instead, they got a rushed game, with limited content. Empty promises, a completely new take on WWII, that was more of a caricature of WWII, and from their point of view, attempted to change history by putting women on the frontlines of WWII, and replacing male soldiers with female ones in the war story, just to appear woke. I don't 100% agree with all of it. I was fine with female soldiers. But I got it. The outfits you could customize your soldiers with weren't accurate to WWII, so it was a similar feeling to that. Everything just felt like it wasn't WWII.

 

The problem is, perception is reality. And when people are perceived to be sexist and offensive, you can't really say anything, or else you'll be lumped in with them. 

 

The Last of Us Part II is a fantastic game, BTW. Everyone should play those games!

Edited by Len Lfc
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Dark Rosewood Varnish

I'm still playing through TLOU2 but it's completely changed my mind about a female protagonist in a GTA game. I'd still prefer a male protagonist but if a female is the lead character in VI I wouldnt mind at all - if it's done right it could be pretty interesting.

 

Spoiler

I've thoroughly enjoyed playing as both Ellie and Abbie - both of them are fantastic characters to play as. Abbie is probably my favourite out of the two - she's pretty savage.  

 

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Len Lfc
5 minutes ago, Dark Rosewood Varnish said:

I'm still playing through TLOU2 but it's completely changed my mind about a female protagonist in a GTA game. I'd still prefer a male protagonist but if a female is the lead character in VI I wouldnt mind at all - if it's done right it could be pretty interesting.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I've thoroughly enjoyed playing as both Ellie and Abbie - both of them are fantastic characters to play as. Abbie is probably my favourite out of the two - she's pretty savage.  

 

TLoU is soooo good. I think too many people get hung up on the protagonists gender. Sure, I get it. So many stories we're used to hearing about are male criminals. But it can still work very well. I'm curious to see a Bonnie & Clyde styled story. 

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Dark Rosewood Varnish
8 minutes ago, Len Lfc said:

TLoU is soooo good. I think too many people get hung up on the protagonists gender. Sure, I get it. So many stories we're used to hearing about are male criminals. But it can still work very well. I'm curious to see a Bonnie & Clyde styled story. 

 

Yeah it's outstanding, just gets better and better as you play through it. Makes you realise how stupid some of the arguments in this thread against a female protagonist were. 

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Doodling Hitman

I want to play as a guy  :)

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marquuard
On 6/27/2020 at 12:22 PM, D T said:
 

It's so weird man. The first game starred a male protagonist and sold 1.3M in it's opening week. And now the second game stars a gay female protagonist and has already sold 4M units in just the first three days. It's almost like including a diverse cast of characters didn't somehow diminish sales numbers? Almost like none of this sh*t actually matters and people will buy a game regardless of who they play as.

And who the actual f*ck cares about it if it's a straight-ass male or a gay female when the game itself is a freaking masterpiece technology and gameplay experience-wise? I feel sorry for gamers who desperately try to go all political in every aspects and put a lot of effort into proving those sales numbers from the past and nowadays have anything to do with the protagonist's sex/gender/hair colour/lip size. And I think no prominent figure in the gaming industry has ever said a game can't be successful with a female protagonist, and the rest of the people who say so are simply so frustrated in their own reality they have no other complaint but to refer to the protagonist's gender as a selling point or not-selling-point. The game is good, all of the cutscenes are top-notch thanks to the highly advanced tools and sh*t for motion capture and so on. I buy games to enjoy them, I don't try to force my political view and theoretical certitude into them. And how could it even be possible in a game filled with zombies and big guys with a huge axe whom you headshot and doesn't die from it? It's just not the reality but a game you buy for entertainment. People really should manage their real life more instead of using a f*cking $60 game as an evidence of their own principle.

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suicidal_banana

I dont really care if the protagonist is gay black crippled or whatever, i just dont see why the fact that america is only just now waking up to human rights has to be shoved in my face, my country is full of all sorts of colorful people with all sorts of colorful sexual preferences and we all have been getting along fine for decades, i really couldn't care less about the whole LGBTQ and BLACK LIVES MATTER!!1! nonsense, thats america's issues, not mine, i dont need them in my videogame thanks.

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Doodling Hitman
44 minutes ago, suicidal_banana said:

I dont really care if the protagonist is gay black crippled or whatever, i just dont see why the fact that america is only just now waking up to human rights has to be shoved in my face, my country is full of all sorts of colorful people with all sorts of colorful sexual preferences and we all have been getting along fine for decades, i really couldn't care less about the whole LGBTQ and BLACK LIVES MATTER!!1! nonsense, thats america's issues, not mine, i dont need them in my videogame thanks.

Agreed. Except with the character being crippled, because then I can't really go climb around, jump rooftops or run after people, lol.

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ArthurMorganRDR

The next GTA character is confirmed guys

 

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Zapper

If a game is good, people are gonna buy. It's that simple. Battlefield V is simply a bad game. That's why it failed. Majority of the consumers don't give two sh*ts about politics in their entertainment products.

 

And after completing TLoU2 I believe it's better than initial 5-10 hours. It has some pacing issues akin to Uncharted 4, some questionable story decisions (the ending is fine but the fight was the single worst design choice in the game imo), but it's great that ND did something different from the first game. Overall it's a solid game, just not the masterpiece, peerless product everyone was making it up to be.

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RenegadeAngel
On 6/27/2020 at 10:30 PM, Dark Rosewood Varnish said:

 

Yeah it's outstanding, just gets better and better as you play through it. Makes you realise how stupid some of the arguments in this thread against a female protagonist were. 

Hold up, you actually had to play a game with a female protagonist in it to realize that? Better late than never then.

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Dark Rosewood Varnish
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, RenegadeAngel said:

Hold up, you actually had to play a game with a female protagonist in it to realize that? Better late than never then.

 

Are you still quarantined? Because you're clearly bored out of your skull to be reaching like this. If you actually bothered to read my posts in here you'd see that I disagreed with people citing females being weak as an argument for not having a female protagonist way before TLOU2 was released.

 

Go outside and get a life instead of following me around the forum trying to provoke unnecessary arguments. I literally have no idea who you are. 

Edited by Dark Rosewood Varnish
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RenegadeAngel
5 minutes ago, Dark Rosewood Varnish said:

 

Are you still quarantined? Because you're clearly bored out of your skull to be reaching like this. If you actually bothered to read my posts in here you'd see that I disagreed with people citing females being weak as an argument for not having a female protagonist way before TLOU2 was released.

 

Go outside and get a life instead of following me around the forum trying to provoke unnecessary arguments. I literally have no idea who you are. 

I didn't bother, that's why I asked. And hey, maybe you should go outside and get a life instead of telling me to do the same without even a slight resemblance of reason. Following around? What exactly is this made up bollocks?  

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MechanicMammal

I'm a straight white male but this is what I think.

I think sexuality should be dealt with like it is in the Mass Effect games, keep that side of the protagonists story blank and leave the player full control to carve that part of the character's personality during the story. Let him/her date either women, men or both if the player desires or none at all if they like.

I would not care if the protag was female or not as long as the story is good, but I do want it to be a single protagonist this time as opposed to multiple.

Rstar could even add the option to start the game as either a male or female protagonist use the same story just record different voice lines for the choice you make.

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VercettiGuy

To be honest I'd love to have the game now.

 

Not because I can't wait, but because stupid me and my buddy already figured out a complete set of GTAO2 characters and plots.

It's ready to go all we're missing is the game, ugh.

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Lotte

I think having a gay or even just a woman protagonist would be pretty cool or like, even at least having a good chunk the supporting cast being not being just straight dudes. Rockstar has been pretty weak on representation for ages and it'd be nice if they started sometime soon

 

I don't think Trevor really counts since the way that hes not heterosexual isnt...I don't want to say it wasn't serious because GTA is a jokey game or whatever but it doesn't feel like it was actually a part of his character, you know?

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DexMacLeod
On 7/2/2020 at 12:38 PM, MojoGamer said:

We already had Trevor and social media don't like it to this day.

https://www.engadget.com/gta-v-trans-ps5-xbox-series-x-representation-rockstar-180041678.html 

What does that article have to do with Trevor or social media's reaction to him?

 

On 7/2/2020 at 10:42 PM, Lotte said:

I don't think Trevor really counts since the way that hes not heterosexual isnt...I don't want to say it wasn't serious because GTA is a jokey game or whatever but it doesn't feel like it was actually a part of his character, you know?

Yeah, a lot of times the references to his sexuality either felt like random improvs, him trying to make someone uncomfortable, or the writers trying to be funny and thinking that a guy referencing being with another guy somehow qualifies as a joke.

 

I sort of like that his sexuality is kept vague and in the background though. I feel that's how these sorts of things should be done. In a GTA game what gender the main character finds sexually attractive should never have a huge impact on the story.

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Mutsor Tima

I've always expected the GTA VI lead to be a non-white female, because I guess every other type of entertainment is embracing female empowerment and diversity; what do you think of that?

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anizawa
On 6/27/2020 at 7:22 AM, D T said:

 

It's so weird man. The first game starred a male protagonist and sold 1.3M in it's opening week. And now the second game stars a gay female protagonist and has already sold 4M units in just the first three days. It's almost like including a diverse cast of characters didn't somehow diminish sales numbers? Almost like none of this sh*t actually matters and people will buy a game regardless of who they play as.

https://imgur.com/a/t8QDklZ

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Jabalous

A potential Grand Theft Auto protagonist! We start playing as a cashier as we slowly enter into the world of crime.

 

 

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billiejoearmstrong8
On 7/2/2020 at 6:38 PM, MojoGamer said:

We already had Trevor and social media don't like it to this day.

https://www.engadget.com/gta-v-trans-ps5-xbox-series-x-representation-rockstar-180041678.html 

I think the criticism of the transgender (or perhaps just crossdressing) peds included as a lame and dated joke is fair, I rolled my eyes at it too. But from what I've seen the way Trevor's sexuality was handled - just happening not to be straight and it not being a big deal to any of the other characters, and it being part of his identity but far from his whole identity - has mostly been praised. I think the inclusion of a transgender stripper, and again it not being a big deal, was pretty good too, and shows that this kind of diversity can work fine in GTA.

 

There were a couple of other little things that I liked, for example the scene where Jimmy realises how dumb it is to use "gay" as an insult was cleverly written. I don't think I've seen that point made more succinctly and indisputably, and it also served to show the character becoming more mature. I think there's plenty of room for both diverse characters and social commentary in GTA. It isn't at odds with it, it's an intrinsic part and they've already shown they're able to include it in a natural way. 

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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