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GTA VI Protagonist & Diversity


yungsufoto

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Secura

Does it matter? I mean even in GTA O you can shag the strippers and hookers even if you're a girl.

Edited by Secura
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Raavi
11 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

Okay. As I implied in my original post, a business like could exist to my limited knowledge about strip club scene, but not a wide scale that is usually depicted in a Grand Theft Auto game. I wasn't totally wrong about what I stated.

GTA's are set in cities like LA, NYC, Miami which are all huge metro areas. These tend to have all kinds of escapades on offer both sexual and non-sexual alike. An LGBT strip club in Vice City wouldn't even stand out. 

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Jabalous
16 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

ShoddyLimpingIvorybilledwoodpecker-small

Is this you after you sent me a crappy statistical study of your creation from a sex website although we were strictly talking about strip clubs? 

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Ash_735
1 minute ago, Jabalous said:

Is this you after you sent me a crappy statistical study of your creation from a sex website although we were strictly talking about strip clubs?

Look I'll be honest with you, you sound young, naive or just flat out stupid, if you're trying to sit there and tell me there's no link between strippers and the rest of the sex worker community then you're deluded. You also keep trying to argue people here one on one as if we all can't see the other posts here, dude, you're constantly getting dunked on by multiple people, sometimes you just have to admit you don't actually know about a subject and give up. What's more embarrassing is that you keep mentioning "realistic" and "wouldn't happen in GTA" when these things HAVE been shown in GTA and real life, and when that's pointed out you come up with some excuse and try and switch what you meant. Have you ONLY played GTAV or something?

 

Throughout this entire thread you've made claims which fell into sexism, derogatory terms, talking down about women, making claims on behalf of women, made claims for the sex worker industry, etc, and have just been consistently wrong but also being too stubborn to acknowledge that. Dude, just let it go, you have sh*tty views.

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Kirsty

Jabalous' first post in this topic (quoted below) is the only thing we need to know when debating with this dude. Nothing anyone says to him will hold any water and he'll deny everything until he's blue in the face. Gays and women aren't normal to him because they aren't believable and they barely exist in real life crime, let alone crime fiction! He certainly isn't going to believe us when we tell him strip clubs exist for anyone else but men.

 

The end.

 

On 5/1/2020 at 5:36 PM, Jabalous said:

How about a normal, engaging and believable Crime story and protagonist? There's no need to cater to personalities that are rarely seen in real crime or crime fiction. There would be need for the writers to push sexuality into the story dialogue and events. it's a series revolving around crime fiction and not commentary on sexuality and other societal issues, except in radio chatter and other in-game media. V had enough of that in the story and I'm hopeful that nothing like it would sneak into the writing again. Any rare crime-based personality would turn me off instantly, like in the instance of the game featuring a female protagonist. 

 

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Spider-Vice
5 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

you sound young

Or the very opposite.

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Secura

I mean, women don't commit crimes as often as men and aren't involved with organized crime to the same level either.

 

It wouldn't be authentic to have a female crime fiction protagonist if you're trying to design a story like that.

 

But the whole strip club and hookers BS is a total strawman and has nothing to do with the validity of what he's written there.

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Jabalous
14 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

Look I'll be honest with you, you sound young, naive or just flat out stupid

If anyone in this topic falls under all of these categories, it'd be you. Sorry, but it's reality. You can get over it, however, with time. 

 

14 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

You also keep trying to argue people here one on one as if we all can't see the other posts here, dude, you're constantly getting dunked on by multiple people, sometimes you just have to admit you don't actually know about a subject and give up. 

"Getting dunked on by multiple people" as in "being trapped in an echo chamber full of same-minded people who cheer me on every post regardless of whether it's discussing a point or resorting to ad hominem attacks". There's nothing to know or teach about this subject as I believe it's a collection of opinions. If you think otherwise, then you're delusional.

 

14 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

What's more embarrassing is that you keep mentioning "realistic" and "wouldn't happen in GTA" when these things HAVE been shown in GTA and real life

What things that have bee shown in GTA and real life and I disagreed on? Be more specific otherwise you're making up claims that I didn't make.

 

14 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

Throughout this entire thread you've made claims which fell into sexism, derogatory terms, talking down about women, making claims on behalf of women, made claims for the sex worker industry

No body has yet to show me my posts where I talked down women or displayed a sign of sexism. Reactionary posts don't count of course, but I believe they can be necessary when someone personally attack you in order get the rise of you. 

Edited by Jabalous
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13 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

Jabalous' first post in this topic (quoted below) is the only thing we need to know when debating with this dude. Nothing anyone says to him will hold any water and he'll deny everything until he's blue in the face. Gays and women aren't normal to him because they aren't believable and they barely exist in real life crime, let alone crime fiction! He certainly isn't going to believe us when we tell him strip clubs exist for anyone else but men.

 

The end.

 

 

Point well made.

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Jabalous
14 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

Jabalous' first post in this topic (quoted below) is the only thing we need to know when debating with this dude. Nothing anyone says to him will hold any water and he'll deny everything until he's blue in the face. Gays and women aren't normal to him because they aren't believable and they barely exist in real life crime, let alone crime fiction! He certainly isn't going to believe us when we tell him strip clubs exist for anyone else but men.

 

The end.

 

Can you disprove this statement of mine which you quoted, then? 

 

"There's no need to cater to personalities that are rarely seen in real crime or crime fiction" 

 

Be specific, prove that they're not rare relative to males with numbers and all. 

 

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Ash_735
9 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

There's nothing to know or teach about this subject as I believe it's a collection of opinions. If you think otherwise, then you're delusional.

Treating Women and Gay people with respect and not view them as lesser thans is an opinion huh.

 

I love how you've claimed to be personally attacked too, the only thing I've done is question if you've had any actual interaction with women in real life, and you've gone on the massive defence and got all insulted about that, which if anything, well, you know.

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Kirsty
18 minutes ago, Secura said:

I mean, women don't commit crimes as often as men and aren't involved with organized crime to the same level either.

 

It wouldn't be authentic to have a female crime fiction protagonist if you're trying to design a story like that.

 

But the whole strip club and hookers BS is a total strawman and has nothing to do with the validity of what he's written there.

Same dude also said somewhere in this topic that the black people in the RDR2 gang wasn't authentic enough. Playing devil's advocate isn't a good look on this occasion.

 

7 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

Can you disprove this statement of mine which you quoted, then? 

 

"There's no need to cater to personalities that are rarely seen in real crime or crime fiction" 

 

Be specific, prove that they're not rare relative to males with numbers and all. 

 

I'm not trying to dispel or prove your theories about crime, I'm calling you out on you saying women and gays aren't normal.

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Jabalous
9 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

Treating Women and Gay people with respect and not view them as lesser thans is an opinion huh.

You've yet to show me which specific posts of mine I viewed women and homosexuals lesser. This is an accusation and it needs an evidence. 

 

9 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

I love how you've claimed to be personally attacked too, the only thing I've done is question if you've had any actual interaction with women in real life, and you've gone on the massive defence and got all insulted about that, which if anything, well, you know.

I interact with all kinds of people, different genders and sexual orientations, but I fail to see how this contributes to the discussion. You basically create a straw man out of me, which is the second logical fallacy you're resorting to, and then attack me.

8 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

I'm not trying to dispel or prove your theories about crime, I'm calling you out on you saying women and gays aren't normal.

How did my post imply that I don't view them as normal? I fail to see that. You're taking it out of context. I meant normal as in 'as we normally see in real-life criminal trends and fiction".

Edited by Jabalous
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28 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

Jabalous' first post in this topic (quoted below) is the only thing we need to know when debating with this dude. Nothing anyone says to him will hold any water and he'll deny everything until he's blue in the face. Gays and women aren't normal to him because they aren't believable and they barely exist in real life crime, let alone crime fiction! He certainly isn't going to believe us when we tell him strip clubs exist for anyone else but men.

 

The end.

 

 

I don't see nothing in his post that implies misogyny . He just stated what would not be believable in GTA universe, because even though GTA is just a game, writers borrow and research a lot from reality of crime organizations and criminal activities in general. But even if R* make female protagonist in next GTA game, i'm confident it won't be cringy, even though for some people such as myself it would break immersion. It seems to me you and some of the other members here are just enjoying ganging up on this dude.

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Secura
22 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

the black people in the RDR2 gang wasn't authentic enough. 

JFC.

 

There are bad takes and that is one of them, my apologies Kirsty.

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Kirsty
17 minutes ago, ACR said:

It seems to me you and some of the other members here are just enjoying ganging up on this dude.

 I get that it might appear that way from the last page or so but we’re ballsdeep (:yee:) in this at over 30 pages now and we’ve seen some colourful opinions that really test one’s faith in the community. I’m sure that everyone can fend for themselves if they’re going to use the platform.

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Jabalous
35 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

Same dude also said somewhere in this topic that the black people in the RDR2 gang wasn't authentic enough. 

It's true, Kirsty. Can you search for an Old West gang in which black and white outlaws ganged up to kill and steal? It's the same thing that Dan Vavra was called for because he didn't include black characters in Kingdom Come: Deliverance. "Authentic" and  "History-based" games and movies do and should exist.

Edited by Jabalous
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Spider-Vice

Rockstar games do not aim for authenticity. KC:D was advertised as an authentic historical game. Same sh*t with Battlefield having women soldiers when EA never advertised it as fully accurate (and there were women soldiers IRL).

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Raavi
3 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

It's true, Kirsty. Can you search for an Old West gang in which black and white outlaws ganged up to kill and steal?

 

You sure, man?

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/lesser-known-history-african-american-cowboys-180962144/

https://www.nypl.org/blog/2019/08/21/outlaws-adventurers-women-old-west

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-history/2019/03/17/black-cowboys-were-common-old-west/3180296002/

 

3 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

t's the same thing that Dan Vavra was called for because he didn't include black characters in Kingdom Come: Deliverance. "Authentic" and  "History-based" games and movies do and should exist.

https://www.thehumanityarchive.com/history/black-people-medieval-europe

https://www.publicmedievalist.com/uncovering-african/

http://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/outcasts/downloads/heng_race_racism.pdf

https://psmag.com/education/yes-there-were-poc-in-medieval-europe

09612020100200287

 

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Jabalous
3 minutes ago, Spider-Vice said:

Rockstar games do not aim for authenticity.

And I understand that, and I actually commended the concept of Dutch being shown as a progressive man in a world of racists and bigots. It's not an authentic story per say, but it's original and doesn't feel forced, especially when the man himself eventually turned his back on his long-time gang friends. There's a nuance in the characters that I appreciate. 

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kingcs
40 minutes ago, ACR said:

I don't see nothing in his post that implies misogyny . He just stated what would not be believable in GTA universe, because even though GTA is just a game, writers borrow and research a lot from reality of crime organizations and criminal activities in general. But even if R* make female protagonist in next GTA game, i'm confident it won't be cringy, even though for some people such as myself it would break immersion. It seems to me you and some of the other members here are just enjoying ganging up on this dude.

Well, he can tag you in if you like? This is a NO DQ handicap match. 

Edited by kingcs
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Lonely-Martin
4 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

And I understand that, and I actually commended the concept of Dutch being shown as a progressive man in a world of racists and bigots. It's not an authentic story per say, but it's original and doesn't feel forced, especially when the man himself eventually turned his back on his long-time gang friends. There's a nuance in the characters that I appreciate. 

So, it seems R* can deliver an unforced original story regardless of authenticity.

Edited by Lonely-Martin
Wording.
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Jabalous
19 minutes ago, Raavi said:

I always said that there were black cowboys/outlaws and cowgirls, but my point is that the Dutch gang isn't history-based (i.e. no blacks, natives, whites, Mexican and wandering ladies banded together to kill and steal), and therefore it's not authentic. I also said that the The O'Driscolls is more representative of a gang was like back then. 

12 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

So, it seems R* can deliver an unforced original story regardless of authenticity.

I always think of R* as neutrally positioned; making fun of everybody and don't take a stance. Some stories in this topic, which features a female protagonist, already suggests 'masculinity vs. femininity' as a driving theme for the story. This wouldn't be the R* I know if they write such a story. 

Edited by Jabalous
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SonofLosSantos
2 hours ago, Zello said:

 

This is a strip club not that far from me. Women go there.

Is that Miami?? I swear I just saw big G

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kingcs
9 minutes ago, SonofLosSantos said:

Is that Miami?? I swear I just saw big G

DC. These folks may know Big G as Slim Charles.

 

Was starting to think that I was the only DMV resident on here. 

Edited by kingcs
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Lonely-Martin
19 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

 I always think of R* as neutrally positioned; making fun of everybody and don't take a stance. Some stories in this topic, which features a female protagonist, already suggests 'masculinity vs. femininity' as a driving theme for the story. This wouldn't be the R* I know if they write such a story. 

My point was, you keep saying ideas suggested like a potential female protagonist needs to be realistic or authentic, backed by stats and facts. But then say that while RDR2 wasn't authentic for you, it worked and was a good unforced original story.

 

Basically, whatever R* do, they can make it work and it doesn't need to be factually correct like you've been saying this long.

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SonofLosSantos

J: That doesn’t exist in real life!

Everyone: Yes it does (proof)

J: okay well there’s not a lot of them so it’s not valid

 

is basically the sum up of this ENTIRE argument 

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