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Retro_Causality

I love Rockstar, but i hope they update their gameplay mechanics for VI

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Kris194
14 hours ago, DexMacLeod said:

I'd love to see them do something more in-line with Forza Horizon but driving in that game takes a modicum of skill and there's a slight learning curve. I don't see it happening as Rockstar seems pretty dedicated to making sure that even people with no skill or patience to learn can pick up their games and be good from the start.

Question is, is it that big of a problem? Many people will be playing this game for many years. Games like Forza Horizon are still arcade games but at the same time they are not NFS.

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DexMacLeod
3 hours ago, Kris194 said:

Question is, is it that big of a problem? Many people will be playing this game for many years. Games like Forza Horizon are still arcade games but at the same time they are not NFS.

Personally, I'm all for a little learning curve. Something that's easy to pick up and be decent enough at right off the bat but takes some experience to really "master". If it's too easy straight away it just gets stale that much quicker for me.

 

I think there's always going to be some learning curve though, or at least adjustment, just because every game plays and feels at least a little different. At least for me, it always takes a bit of time to train my brain not to drive the way I did in the last game I played. Hell, I still keep my index finger on the RB button anytime I'm driving in a game even though GTA is the only one that uses it for the handbrake.

 

 

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yolobigman

We need realism, and a sh*t ton of it just like RD2.

 

Just a few things I wanna see

-Being bailed out of jail like in RD2

-Cops able to arrest and a lot more realism to the way they move especially the swat team. Would be cool to see them use flashbangs, riot shields etc.

-I wanna drive around the city and see fights, shootouts drug dealing going on.

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ArmenianAssasin77
Posted (edited)
On 5/1/2020 at 7:36 PM, Kris194 said:

Agree, Rockstar needs to find sweet spot between playability and realism, something they did successfully in RDR 2. Game feels realistic but it isn't annoying at the same time.

RDR2 is too realistic i really dislike not being able to carry all my weapons. Or having too clean my guns all the time.

1 hour ago, yolobigman said:

We need realism, and a sh*t ton of it just like RD2.

 

Just a few things I wanna see

-Being bailed out of jail like in RD2

-Cops able to arrest and a lot more realism to the way they move especially the swat team. Would be cool to see them use flashbangs, riot shields etc.

-I wanna drive around the city and see fights, shootouts drug dealing going on.

I agree they should add this in GTA VI

- 9/5 jobs

- Having to eat or otherwise you''ll starve to death

- Having to own a gun license to buy guns

- If you die the game ends.

Obviously im being sarcastic.

GTA doesn't need to be  realistic , GTA needs to be fun.

Edited by ArmenianAssasin77
Grammar mistake
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AntonGandonBF3

Seems like the most disscused part related to physics in GTAV compared to GTAIV is the driving. One feels more "boaty" the other more "glued to the ground". And I agree with both.

 

With this in mind, I think they need to make cars feel more in beetwen those two games.

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Kris194
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ArmenianAssasin77 said:

RDR2 is too realistic i really dislike not being able to carry all my weapons. Or having too clean my guns all the time.

I agree they should add this in GTA VI

- 9/5 jobs

- Having to eat or otherwise you''ll starve to death

- Having to own a gun license to buy guns

- If you die the game ends.

Obviously im being sarcastic.

GTA doesn't need to be  realistic , GTA needs to be fun.

You are able to carry all your weapons, they are on your horse which is always close. When it comes to cleaning weapons, I had to clean my weapon probably 10 times throughout 150 hours I played this game (so far).

Edited by Kris194

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billiejoearmstrong8
Posted (edited)
On 5/1/2020 at 3:59 PM, Kris194 said:

5 minutes? Are you even aware how far you can get in 5 minutes? It's not following anymore but rather guessing where the guy/girl might be. You can calculate your chances of being lucky.

 

New crowd? Do you mean millennials? The same crowd, that says, that RDR 2 is boring game because it's slow paced game? The same crowd, that play Fortnite and spend a lot of money on it? The very same, that won't read something just because it's too long? Gimme a break. Trying to appeal to millennials will result in mediocre game to many others. It's also funny, that you complain about RDR 2 animations which are best in class. Animations in AC are lifeless af. I would also like to add, that for many people, that Rockstar was targeting with RDR 2, it was the best game they ever played.

Just FYI that's not what millennials are. Millennials were born from around 1981 to 1995 so the oldest ones are almost 40 and the youngest in their mid 20s. They're the generation than came after generation x and used to be known as generation y but are now more often called millennials, the generation that experienced the new millennium and the change over to the internet age. You're thinking of generation z (born from around 1996 to 2010, never experienced life before the internet age).

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8
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yolobigman
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, ArmenianAssasin77 said:

RDR2 is too realistic i really dislike not being able to carry all my weapons. Or having too clean my guns all the time.

I agree they should add this in GTA VI

- 9/5 jobs

- Having to eat or otherwise you''ll starve to death

- Having to own a gun license to buy guns

- If you die the game ends.

Obviously im being sarcastic.

GTA doesn't need to be  realistic , GTA needs to be fun.

Actually I like the having to eat idea and the owning gun license one.

 

would be cool if you have scenarios in gta 6 were you shoot yourself for protection and the cops check if u have a gun license for it. 

 

And 9/5 jobs will be fun, just like in rd2 how stores close at night, rd2 was not too realistic, the realism makes it f*cking fun and I hope in gta 6 they make you store weapons in cars / duffel bags

 

and having to eat or you will starve to death will give you a realistic feel, which is what most of us want

Edited by yolobigman
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Xiled

There were quite a few people annoyed by the eating mechanic in sa. Most of the time I didn't even notice it or saved enough, or you know actually went to eat sometimes. It was kinda realistic how they handled it. First you got hungry, if you didnt eat, you would lose muscle, than you would lose fat, than you would start to lose health. So in a way fat CJ technically had more health. Have only seen it in rare cases where someone has died from starving to death in SA. Mostly in speedruns.  

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Kris194

Annoyed? You didn't even have to eat in San Andreas. More realistic approach can add a lot to the game.

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ArmenianAssasin77
1 hour ago, Kris194 said:

Annoyed? You didn't even have to eat in San Andreas. More realistic approach can add a lot to the game.

Why the f*ck would i care about eating or a realistic feel in a game , i play games to escape reality not to relive it in a game.

Like RDR2 im a outlaw why would i give 2 sh*ts about hunting and fishing i want to kill and rob people , but the game punishes you for doing that (Honor/Broken Bounty system) 

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Dark Rosewood Varnish
6 hours ago, ArmenianAssasin77 said:

Why the f*ck would i care about eating or a realistic feel in a game , i play games to escape reality not to relive it in a game.

Like RDR2 im a outlaw why would i give 2 sh*ts about hunting and fishing i want to kill and rob people , but the game punishes you for doing that (Honor/Broken Bounty system) 

 

GTA Online seems like it would be more your thing if you just want to aimlessly run around causing havoc while being armed with every weapon the sun and being able to magically pull rocket launchers out of your ass.

 

It's 2020, times have changed.

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Kris194
7 hours ago, ArmenianAssasin77 said:

Why the f*ck would i care about eating or a realistic feel in a game , i play games to escape reality not to relive it in a game.

Like RDR2 im a outlaw why would i give 2 sh*ts about hunting and fishing i want to kill and rob people , but the game punishes you for doing that (Honor/Broken Bounty system) 

Game punishes you for hurting innocent people, it's so weird...

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Journey_95

Open ended missions would be a huge mistake and lead to repetitive forgettable missions like in every Ubisoft game these days or Mafia 3. Linearity and scripted stuff makes missions more memorable. I really hate this criticism, I'm worried Rockstar will listen and make the next GTA boring

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El Penguin Bobo
30 minutes ago, Journey_95 said:

Open ended missions would be a huge mistake and lead to repetitive forgettable missions like in every Ubisoft game these days or Mafia 3. Linearity and scripted stuff makes missions more memorable. I really hate this criticism, I'm worried Rockstar will listen and make the next GTA boring

Exactly what I mean, not to say Ubisoft are sh*t developers, they make awesome games imo, but their mission design is lackluster and it always stuck out to me until you realize you're just doing the same thing over and over but in a different location.

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Journey_95
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, El Penguin Bobo said:

Exactly what I mean, not to say Ubisoft are sh*t developers, they make awesome games imo, but their mission design is lackluster and it always stuck out to me until you realize you're just doing the same thing over and over but in a different location.

Thats why I preferred their earlier games like Splinter Cell or the AC Ezio Trilogy. The missions back then were memorable.

 

Now its the same thing in every game..and they hide it behind "choose your own style" marketing but at the end of the day there are only 2 ways to do it (more stealthy or shoot everything) and that gets boring real quickly. There is nothing unique happening.

 

I think they make fun open world games but in terms of writing and mission design they are lackluster these days, especially compared to Rockstar games.  

Edited by Journey_95
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KingAJ032304
Posted (edited)

I was playing GTA III, VC, and GTA V,  the other day on my PS4 and one MAJOR thing stuck out to me. There's not enough "side-activities" to do. And then GTA SA had just enough but they all are kind of done bad and don't really work to well. One of my many praises for the ORIGINAL 2006 SR game (having the balance of nice story, characters, music, humor, tone, and depth, realistic setting, and npcs while also having a lot of innovations, interesting features, being in a CALM environment while also having a lot of surprisingly well executed side stuff in general with the quality=quantity unlike SR2 onward) GTA IV was surprisingly really good at this two (but SLIGHTLY lacked on the quantity, but it still had an AMAZING balance. I'll say out of all GTA games, TBOGT got the balance practically perfect)

Edited by KingAJ032304
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Algonquin Assassin
9 hours ago, Journey_95 said:

Open ended missions would be a huge mistake and lead to repetitive forgettable missions like in every Ubisoft game these days or Mafia 3. Linearity and scripted stuff makes missions more memorable. I really hate this criticism, I'm worried Rockstar will listen and make the next GTA boring

They don't need to go to that extent. Just make them like the 3D era GTAs and GTA IV and ease off on the ridiculous and ball busting fail states. I don't think anyone really wants every single mission to be completely open ended, but I think most people are just tired of having freedom restricted for overly stupid reasons. 

 

It's a balance R* got right in the past. No reason they can't do it again. 

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Dark Rosewood Varnish
14 hours ago, KingAJ032304 said:

I was playing GTA III, VC, and GTA V,  the other day on my PS4 and one MAJOR thing stuck out to me. There's not enough "side-activities" to do. And then GTA SA had just enough but they all are kind of done bad and don't really work to well. One of my many praises for the ORIGINAL 2006 SR game (having the balance of nice story, characters, music, humor, tone, and depth, realistic setting, and npcs while also having a lot of innovations, interesting features, being in a CALM environment while also having a lot of surprisingly well executed side stuff in general with the quality=quantity unlike SR2 onward) GTA IV was surprisingly really good at this two (but SLIGHTLY lacked on the quantity, but it still had an AMAZING balance. I'll say out of all GTA games, TBOGT got the balance practically perfect)

 

Agreed on the side activities point, I think RDR2 had a good amount of side activities. I liked how some of them weren't linear and didnt need to be triggered either - for example home invasions could just be done spontaneously without having to trigger them, outside of the companion homestead robberies you could pretty much just approach any enterable ranch or homestead, tie up the occupants and loot the place dry. Hunting as well, again this wasn't a fixed side activity you had to trigger but just something you could do spontaneously while in free roam - hunting also added hours of gameplay as it was needed for items of clothing and camp upgrades.

 

I'd like to see more side activities like these that don't necessarily need triggering. I'd also like to see them rope the in game camera (if they include one) into some sort of side activity - I'm not entirely sure but I think San Andreas had a side activity involving the camera, it's been so long since I've played that game that I cant fully remember. It will be cool just to see activities that encourage a bit of map exploration.

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AntonGandonBF3

Love reading the replies here. Everyone has a point and everything is written civilized.

Nothing to do with the speculation thread.

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darkdayz
Posted (edited)

 

On 5/8/2020 at 2:43 AM, Algonquin Assassin said:

They don't need to go to that extent. Just make them like the 3D era GTAs and GTA IV and ease off on the ridiculous and ball busting fail states. I don't think anyone really wants every single mission to be completely open ended, but I think most people are just tired of having freedom restricted for overly stupid reasons. 

 

It's a balance R* got right in the past. No reason they can't do it again. 

 

Totally. It's actually crazy too because their newer games require more development.

 

For example, Sunshine autos in VC told you what car you needed, nothing else. The pursuit of finding that was fun, had us thinking, looking at guides, you can find one here at 2am on a Tuesday - ok.

 

RDR2 told us what we needed, a wagon from the oil field, told us exactly where to get it - not fun. The latter requires more code, yet has less pay off. Makes zero sense.

 

There was some good moments in RDR2 though. Bandit camps for example, the only way to fail is if you die - this is good - everything else up to you. More choice would have been even better, as choice was a bit of an illusion, stealth kill or all guns blazing. Why not send your horse into the camp with a dead bandit on it, confusing everyone so you can grab the loot without anyone noticing, etc etc.

 

Finding specific animals, as the code surrounding the animals was almost random sometimes. This is also good.

 

Mission over because you shoot a person too early - not good.

 

 

Edited by darkdayz
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The Wolf Man

If you think the current R* gaming mechanics are okay and don't need improvement then you are a fan of R* but hardly a fan of gaming itself. At least not a hardcore fan (which is not a problem at all... don't get me wrong).

 

R* games are heavily scripted. Too much. Games are supposed to be challenging. The player must increase his ability and creativity if he wants to progress further. There is no challenge and no creativity if the developer grabs your hand and show you the way every time. 

 

My sense is that modern gaming is more about showing how technological advanced your product is than actually making the player have fun with it.

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Jabalous
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, The Wolf Man said:

If you think the current R* gaming mechanics are okay and don't need improvement then you are a fan of R* but hardly a fan of gaming itself. At least not a hardcore fan (which is not a problem at all... don't get me wrong).

 

R* games are heavily scripted. Too much. Games are supposed to be challenging. The player must increase his ability and creativity if he wants to progress further. There is no challenge and no creativity if the developer grabs your hand and show you the way every time. 

 

My sense is that modern gaming is more about showing how technological advanced your product is than actually making the player have fun with it.

I think that by now players should have already realized that Rockstar Games are first and foremost storytellers. I don't subscribe to the concept that all games, open world or not, should have nonlinear missions design and that player should freely explore how to tackle all challenges. In order for the story to be convincing, cohesive and with a unique presentation, the developer will have to sacrifice the player's freedom to an extent, and this is exactly what R* has been doing and will likely continue to do as their games are highly appreciated for the semi-realism, tech, presentation, living worlds, great storytelling and characters building. For these aspects to shine and feel unique, they have no option but to follow a scripted mission design relative to, say, an Assassin's Creed game.

 

Even though Redemption 2 offers multiple choices in how to tackle some story missions, they're cinematically presented with cutscenes and dialogue to support the narrative, like when Charles ask Arthur how to proceed while they were planning a raid on the Murfrees outside of their cave (1. luring them out of the cave with dynamites or 2. sneaking into the cave and taking them out). If this particular mission was in an Assassin's Creed game, the player would've been given a mark on the map with a mission statement to go and kill and bunch of enemies. With that in mind, and as we've seen in the recent Red Dead game, some missions still offer more than a single way in how to tackle it, so the statement that R*'s games are completely restricted missions wise isn't true.

Edited by Jabalous
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Dark Rosewood Varnish

Yeah I'm not really too fussed about story missions being 'scripted'. Don't get me wrong it'll be better to have missions like GTA IV where we could complete tasks in multiple ways but for me its not a deal breaker. V's missions were heavily scripted but I still enjoyed them and thought some of them were brilliant. Same with RDR2 - the missions were very cinematic but some of them were incredible to partake in, like Blood Feuds Ancient And Modern - I don't think I've ever been so engaged while playing through a mission like I was with that. 

 

For me as long as theres side activities to do and ways to work them into role playing during free roam then I'm not too bothered about story missions being linear or scripted - as long as they're entertaining and exciting to play through. 

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The Wolf Man
Posted (edited)

The Last Of Us can be considered a storyteller kind of game and has more creative gameplay mechanics than most of Rockstar games. And that ain't saying much since Naughty Dogs games are also very scripted.

Edited by The Wolf Man

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Kris194
Posted (edited)

I also wouldn't like open ended missions, they need to be memorable, open ended missions are really not like that. They would feel pretty much the same, only locations would be different.

 

  

1 hour ago, Dark Rosewood Varnish said:

For me as long as theres side activities to do and ways to work them into role playing during free roam then I'm not too bothered about story missions being linear or scripted - as long as they're entertaining and exciting to play through. 

Agree.

Edited by Kris194
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El Penguin Bobo
6 minutes ago, Kris194 said:

I also wouldn't like open ended missions, they need to be memorable, open ended missions are really not like that. They would feel pretty much the same, only locations would be different.

You pretty much just described in every Ubisoft mission design ever lmao.

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DexMacLeod
54 minutes ago, Kris194 said:

I also wouldn't like open ended missions, they need to be memorable, open ended missions are really not like that. They would feel pretty much the same, only locations would be different.

That's actually how I felt about RDR2, for the most part. The missions are primarily just a mindless shoot'em up down a prescripted path and the only things that change are the location and the NPC ally telling you where to go and who to shoot. Even when they give you "choices" you're typically just choosing which enemy to kill first before everything devolves into the same shootout you've done dozens of times.

 

I'd much rather have missions I can do multiple times in multiple ways than ones where I just follow along, do as I'm told, and enjoy the view. A mix of both would be preferable, though.

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Jabalous
22 minutes ago, DexMacLeod said:

That's actually how I felt about RDR2, for the most part. The missions are primarily just a mindless shoot'em up down a prescripted path and the only things that change are the location and the NPC ally telling you where to go and who to shoot. Even when they give you "choices" you're typically just choosing which enemy to kill first before everything devolves into the same shootout you've done dozens of times.

 

I'd much rather have missions I can do multiple times in multiple ways than ones where I just follow along, do as I'm told, and enjoy the view. A mix of both would be preferable, though.

Aren't all action/adventure games basically shoot'em up? Why would Red Dead, which is based on Western movie tropes, be any different? Tell us, as an example, how you'd redesign Blood Feuds, Ancient and Modern mission so that you can complete it in multiple ways without losing its cinematic quality?  

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DexMacLeod
18 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

Aren't all action/adventure games basically shoot'em up? Why would Red Dead, which is based on Western movie tropes, be any different? Tell us, as an example, how you'd redesign Blood Feuds, Ancient and Modern mission so that you can complete it in multiple ways without losing its cinematic quality?  

I said "mindless shoot'em up". It's just shoot from cover at the swarm of robots while you make your way down a predetermined path. As opposed to games where the enemies and environments allow for strategy and thought.

 

As for that mission, it would be as simple as the manor having more than one working entrance. You'd still get that cool, cinematic walk up to the house and the tense standoff that follows, but from there you'd have the choice to either just stand in front of the house and mow down the enemies that spawn out of it, or you could use the gunfight in the front of the house as a distraction and sneak in through a side entrance and search the place yourself.

 

When you get to the barricaded door it triggers the swarm of enemies outside which then leads to the final cutscene as it did before. It still wouldn't be a completely free and open-ended mission but, like I said, they don't all have to be. A mix of both would be ideal.

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