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IndianaLiam1

What's your opinion on the Houser leave?

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IndianaLiam1

And do you think it will affect the new releases by the big R*?

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thisisdagger

I think it will have an impact... But if noticeable for us that's a different question. 

. As many others have said before, he's not the only creative mastermind at R*

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gig

Eventually will have an impact, probably after GTA VI. Eventually Sam will leave. And then you yell timber. 

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Thejeffster

Honestly I don't really care that much just as long as the quality of the games doesn't drop.

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Tysonesque
Posted (edited)

When a GTA game launches it's generation-defining. It always sets a new standard for the industry, but make no mistake about it.. nobody else in the industry achieves that standard. They just set it and all every other company can do is look up in admiration (see Kojima).

 

I have a feeling , this won't be the case with the next GTA. When i played gta games even as a kid , i knew these 3 names. They would come in the intro and and the outro. Written by Dan Houser, Produced by Leslie Benzies , Executive producer Sam Houser.

 

The next GTA will miss not ONE but TWO of those names. My point ? Exactly that. This GTA will differ from the others by simply not having those two names in the intro and outro . Literally 😁

 

No but seriously. Of course it doesn't look good  when the main man (Dan) behind the whole franchise is not there anymore. Every other big company that made my childhood has fallen from their pedestals : Bioware, Bethesda , even Valve. .

 

Let's see what happens.

 

Edited by Tysonesque
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Vanzant

My opinion is neither one will make a difference. Everyone is replaceable. It's one tough fact I've learned in many years of Auto Industry.

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Budz

Bad. 
 

Everyone goes on about how replaceable he is and this and that.

 

But, at the end of the day, there’s only one Dan Houser and one Rockstar Games.

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GRANDHEIST

--

Side Note: 

"It reminds me of what [Dan] Houser told me when I asked him why he continues to make video games; the thing that, throughout 20 years running the company, has personally given him the joy and the hope to persevere; the thing that explains Rockstar's shroud of secrecy, its shunning of the spotlight.

“Sam and I talk about this a lot,” he replied, “and it’s that games are still magical."

 

guess they're not..

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WanteD1
Posted (edited)

Sad! He was a great leader...but

Nothing happens!
R* is not one person! 

Edited by WanteD1

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RenegadeAngel

I don't think so. To me, the real question is: Was Dan Houser's departure a direct result of T2's overlords changing Rockstar's policy and if so, how will it affect the future of the company?

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Retro_Causality

i got 4 theories

 

1. He left because he didn't like the way GTA 6 was going, maybe it's going to be online focused and Dan is a big story guy

2. Bully 2 got canned, upset about that

3. Burn Out

4. Other reasons

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ventogt
7 hours ago, GRANDHEIST said:

--

Side Note: 

"It reminds me of what [Dan] Houser told me when I asked him why he continues to make video games; the thing that, throughout 20 years running the company, has personally given him the joy and the hope to persevere; the thing that explains Rockstar's shroud of secrecy, its shunning of the spotlight.

“Sam and I talk about this a lot,” he replied, “and it’s that games are still magical."

 

guess they're not..

Corporate bullsh*t will wear out even the highest paid people if it's not in line with the creative vision or capabilities of the other stakeholders

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Original Light
Posted (edited)

I don't believe we'll see an effect.


When Leslie Benzies left Rockstar Games, everyone was under the impression that Red Dead Redemption 2 would suffer because of it. This was the first Rockstar title that didn't have Leslie's touch. In reality, the title came out and it pretty much perfected/expanded everything RDR1 did right, and the writing was still top notch.

 

With Houser's leave, no doubt the writing may be a little different - but there's a lot of writing talent out there. You can't tell me that The Wicher 3 isn't phenomenal in its writing, or that Naughty Dog doesn't write good stories for their games - excellent talent is out there, and Rockstar is an elite studio to work at, no doubt there will only be room for the best talent to replace staff that eventually leave. 

 

 

Edited by Original Light
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Zapper

I'd have been much more worried if along with Dan, Rupert Humphires and Michael Unsworth and Lazlow left the company. They're all old timers and worked with Dan for a long time and I guess understands what makes GTA. 

4 hours ago, Original Light said:

excellent talent is out there

Disco Elysium is an indie game but the writing is phenomenal. You should play it if you haven't.

6 hours ago, Retro_Causality said:

i got 4 theories

 

1. He left because he didn't like the way GTA 6 was going, maybe it's going to be online focused and Dan is a big story guy

2. Bully 2 got canned, upset about that

3. Burn Out

4. Other reasons

Well Dan did write shorter stories, right? RDR1 was 18-20 hour long, same was Vice City but both of them are amazing. Not every game has to be RDR2 length.

Insiders said Bully 2 was probably shelved in 2019, not canned.

No. 3 is probably the most plausible but can be 4 too.

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Ash_735
On 4/22/2020 at 3:08 PM, thisisdagger said:

As many others have said before, he's not the only creative mastermind at R*

 

22 hours ago, Vanzant said:

My opinion is neither one will make a difference. Everyone is replaceable.

 

9 hours ago, WanteD1 said:

Nothing happens!
R* is not one person! 

This is always said but HOW many people is the "feel" of Rockstar? Ever since the Leslie Benzies incident Rockstar North lost over 40% of their long time staff, most of them veterans to the series, it was bad enough to cause a ripple effect which I pretty much think resulted in all three Single Player DLC stories being cancelled. It also resulted in many long time contributors leaving Rockstar NYC too, people like Stephen Bliss who for years was key to the visual identity of Rockstar Games, especially the later Sixth and Seventh Generation when they had this "punks of the industry" vibe going on. Now with Dan Houser, one of THE MAIN LEAD WRITERS of most of their games, gone, the man who wanted to push for games like Bully, Manhunt, The Warrior's, etc, the man who wanted to push the stories and writing of these games, you're deluded if you think it's not going to have any effect going forward. Combine that with the new "clean" Rockstar Games who are trying to force out "toxic" and "older" workers to be replaced by fresh blood in an attempt to steer the company into a more corporate friendly nodding dog you have to ask yourself that first question again, how many people have to leave before the "feel" of Rockstar Games is gone?

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Vanzant

A 40% Turnover rate in 20 years is nothing.

 

Also, yeah...things will change and will meet the gaming trends of tomorrow. That's going to happen no matter what. Change of people, policy and direction is inevitable. Ash, almost everything you said, is exactly what has to happen to any company if it wants to better itself for the future. This is why I said it won't make a difference.

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Ash_735
19 minutes ago, Vanzant said:

A 40% Turnover rate in 20 years is nothing

This was between 2014 and 2016, and a good chunk of them joined Leslie's new studio. Most others went freelance to get away from Rockstar after they saw how loyal staff got treated.

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Vanzant
14 minutes ago, Ash_735 said:

This was between 2014 and 2016, and a good chunk of them joined Leslie's new studio. Most others went freelance to get away from Rockstar after they saw how loyal staff got treated.

Yeah. That's normal. It happens all over the world with any industry. So, that means the company will need to replace those with newer educated people who will fill those voids to create a product that sells as well as previous products. It's how a business will continue instead of going stale with 50 year olds trying to recreate the magic of their prime 20 or 30 years ago.

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Budz
1 hour ago, Vanzant said:

Yeah. That's normal. It happens all over the world with any industry. So, that means the company will need to replace those with newer educated people who will fill those voids to create a product that sells as well as previous products. It's how a business will continue instead of going stale with 50 year olds trying to recreate the magic of their prime 20 or 30 years ago.

Yeah new people that haven’t got a clue what Dan or Rockstar is about. Yeah you’re right thousands of people out there that are great writers in there prime and ready.

 

But there’s no one like Dan Houser and the feel of Rockstar it’s self will change once none of the originals are there. Will be better for some, bad for others.

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GRANDHEIST

next GTA is when we possibly see the effect of Benzies departure

 

he would have had barely anything to do with RDR2

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Dark Rosewood Varnish
Posted (edited)

This forum trend of acting like Dan Houser was just another freelance developer is truly bizarre. The guy was the lead writer and co-creator of the entire series for goodness sake, of course it will have a huge effect on things going forward.

Edited by Dark Rosewood Varnish
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Damien Scott
6 hours ago, Ash_735 said:

Combine that with the new "clean" Rockstar Games who are trying to force out "toxic" and "older" workers to be replaced by fresh blood in an attempt to steer the company into a more corporate friendly nodding dog 

Now you had me worried. Rockstar is the most politically incorrect gaming company, they don't really care if anyone is offended by their games. It seems that will change and they'll tone down their games.

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thisisdagger
22 minutes ago, Damien Scott said:

Now you had me worried. Rockstar is the most politically incorrect gaming company, they don't really care if anyone is offended by their games. It seems that will change and they'll tone down their games.

 

With my last replay of GTA V i noticed how they were already making fun of SJWs who were just beginning back than . (the first Arab guy who called everyone a racist). Its quite amazing how they called out this whole movement before it was even a big thing.

I really really hope thats not going to get toned down... but I fear you are right

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ChiroVette
Posted (edited)

There's also the possibility that while the overall quality of any given new GTA game may fall a little, that Rockstar may be a little bit more productive. The thing is, after reading a crapload of interviews with Dan and Sam Houser, it occurred to me that as incredibly talented and dedicated as the pair is, maybe, just maybe, they just take themselves and their GTA legacy waaaay too seriously. I know that their paradigm is one that GTA has to be the best of the best. It has to break incredibly new ground every time, blaze new trails, and be heralded as the end all, be all game of the century. But is this really necessary?

 

Not for anything, but I miss the days of GTA games coming out every year or two, starting with GTA and winding all the way through San Andreas and the two PSP games, later ported to the PS2. I firmly believe that an argument could be made that GTA needs to be at least a little more prolific. I know GTAO is making mega bucks on Shark Card sales, but seriously...ten'ish years between new GTA games? 5 years between IV and V? In what universe is this a good thing? The Housers would argue that it isn't about the mega bucks that GTAO generates, but instead, its about the need to make that next GTA game completely Earth-shattering and groundbreaking compared to the last. I believe it is this exact philosophy that, for my taste at least, completely ruined GTA IV and the Crapisodes as games. The Housers were so desperate to turn GTA into some amalgamation of a movie and a game that, while we can argue and debate over storylines in IV and V, as well as "physics," the "game" part of the game was awful and bland to me. 

 

I guess my thinking here is I hope that their leaving is a good thing. Rockstar, in my opinion, needs to stop trying to stop the Earth's rotation with a new GTA game and just make a fabulous game to be played. VC was better than III in many ways, SA better than VC and III in many ways, and even the PSP games brought a lot of great stuff to the table, particularly VCS. Do I think that GTA needs to be treated like EA's sports games, where they churn out a "new game" every year with little or no improvements? No, of course not. We all known how that goes. But what about between full games, churning out sequels/prequels a lot more often?

Edited by ChiroVette
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José_Sócrates

Do you know what happened to Assassin's Creed when Ubisoft fired the creative director? The effect was very much noticeable, and even if you like the newer games better and don't know who's been working on them, you can pretty much tell when they fired the guy if you play all the games.

I'm afraid GTA without Dan Houser will become like Assassin's Creed without its creative director - A formerly great franchise that has since become a cash grab, milked every year/few years to get that sweet profit, devoid of everything that made it great in the first place.

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Zapper
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Damien Scott said:

Now you had me worried. Rockstar is the most politically incorrect gaming company, they don't really care if anyone is offended by their games. It seems that will change and they'll tone down their games.

Calm down, Sam is still at Rockstar. Humphries, Unsworth, Lazlow are also staying. I'm quite sure they know what makes a GTA truly a GTA.

 

I stopped playing GTAO in 2018, can anyone fill me in how the dialogue and humor feels like in the latest updates?

Edited by Zapper

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GRANDHEIST
26 minutes ago, Zapper said:

Humphries, Unsworth, Lazlow are also staying.

Maybe they are maybe they are not, don't know how big you have to be to get press release about your departure

 

worst fear is that reason why Dan left is that single player is scrapped completely or to bare minimum 

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Zapper
1 minute ago, GRANDHEIST said:

worst fear is that reason why Dan left is that single player is scrapped completely or to bare minimum 

It won't be scrapped completely I think but the thought of bare minimum makes me sick.

I believe Zelnick understands SP is what brings in players initially, sets up the base and then Online retains them. I wouldn't mind a shorter campaign if the content is solid. Well we'll see how GTA6 turns out then decide whether to stick with Rockstar or f*ck'em.

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Original Light
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Vanzant said:

Yeah. That's normal. It happens all over the world with any industry. So, that means the company will need to replace those with newer educated people who will fill those voids to create a product that sells as well as previous products. It's how a business will continue instead of going stale with 50 year olds trying to recreate the magic of their prime 20 or 30 years ago.

I'm actually surprised that the turnover rate at Rockstar hasn't been higher, or that their original management structure didn't collapse a long time ago. The Sam, Dan, Leslie, and Lazlow "gang of originals" endured almost 15 years unscathed. 

 

Maybe the video game industry is a little different than other industries, but every company I've ever worked at, the turnover rate was so high that if you walked in a year later - you wouldn't recognize anyone there. In the car dealership business, half of the store gets fired/quits within a 6 month period. I suppose that in the art/talent industry, people stick around longer because jobs are harder to come by.

 

I've known a few people in my life that tried to seek employment at Rockstar Games, with their Bachelor's or Master's in programming, art, or graphic design - and failed. It really is like a lottery trying to get employed by them. It's an elite institution. 

 

That brings me back to my original point, whoever "replaces" any top talent at Rockstar is more than qualified and capable. Any changes in the game design process, structure, planning, or personal preference of the writer/artist will hardly be noticeable to the player since it's a broad team effort of many employees - not just one person. 

Edited by Original Light

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