The fundamental problem with heists in GTA V

[.Ryan.]

Please note that the intention behind this thread isn't to bash the heists or even really to criticise them as missions hence why I haven't placed it in the official complaint thread. These are also only my opinions so I'm not trying to push them as objective facts so if you don't agree with anything I say that's fine. Each to their own, but please respect my views.

 

To start just like everyone else here before GTA V's release I was super hyped for the heists as it seemed like one of GTA V's biggest draw cards. The first time I played the Vangelico heist was absolutely amazing and it felt like all the work I done preparing for the heist paid off, but then after this it just started feeling weird never really reaching that high again. The Merryweather heist felt like a massive waste of time because of all the work that went into preparing for was for nothing and then Blitz Play was similar. I felt a boost of enthusiasm for the Paleto Bay bank job, then it went away for the IAA building raid and then finally the Big Score. It's a strange rollercoaster of highs and lows.

 

You know what I think the fundamental problem is? There are too many heists too condensely packed. GTA V's been subject to criticism for its low mission count compared to other GTA games, but I don't think this helps at all. When I think about it the Vangelico heist appears really early in the story like 10-12 missions in then there's a bit of a gap to the Merryweather heist and it's even possible to do Blitz Play back to back, then there's a wait for the bank job since we hide out in the countryside and a slight wait for the IAA building raid and finally the Big Score. I feel exhausted typing all that out, but honestly the first time I played GTA V when I got to the Big Score I was so burned out it didn't even feel that special or like the "ultimate" heist. It just felt like a slightly longer extension of the other ones and a little anti climatic if I'm honest.

 

So with that being said and not diving into the "prep missions" as I could write an essay on those as that's another problem I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with the heists themselves, but to me the story simply doesn't accommodate the need for so many. If it had 120 missions or something and spread them out a bit better that would be fine.

 

If it were up to me and if I had a chance to rewrite GTA V's story I would only cut down to three heists and that would be the Vangelico one, the Paleto Bay bank job and the Big Score. I would probably still have the Vangelico one still at the start, but deeper in so we could get more of a chance to know Michael and Franklin a bit better, the Paleto Bay one where it currently is and by the time of the Big Score I think it would feel more like a better culmination without the feeling of burnout. Infact I would be craving it even more. I just think this would strengthen GTA V's "In pursuit of the almighty dollar" theme by the heists gradually increasing in complexity and payoff without the odd hoop jumping from going from getting a decent payout, to feeling like we're wasting out time, to getting another decent payout etc 

 

Anyway to me these three are the best in the game anyway and they should've been concentrated on, but the others feel a bit like filler that we could've done away with, with more character building type missions in their place. 

 

[Nappy]

SONOFLIBERTY SAYS GTA V SUCKS

 

 

i think Big Score and Jewelry Store were fine except the known scripted design part Gta V is known for. Heists also had this “preparation” that didn’t make sense, your heist preparation object is stealing a chopper from the military base??

Edited April 22, 2020 by Payne

[Guest]

I can see why you would have felt burnt out, six heists crammed in 69 odd missions with some of them being prep missions making the rest of the story seem shorter, and a couple of the heists feel like they were done back to back as you said so i can see the burnout thing. 

 

However I still disagree with reducing the heists, if anything I would have added a couple more heists with the caveat that there's a space of 15-20 missions between heists. They had this nice system of specialized crew members which felt underutilized imo, plus the stupid thing was that half the heists didn't involve payment, and one had a reduced pay to pay off Madrazo so a couple more heists for our own benefit and not for the FIB or something like that would have been better

 

I would probably drop the Merryweather heist if I had to drop one, since Blitz Play makes us encounter the main antagonist properly and Bureau Raid is basically us removing the FIBs leverage against us so both atleast have some story significance but Merryweather heist not so much. As for what I would add, the casino heist would have been awesome to do, the heist crew members would have a proper role here. Also we didn't really rob a standard bank in Los Santos, we robbed the Union Depository but it was more a super bank, so something like the Pacific Standard Job in Online, where we rob a regular bank some 30 missions before taking on the UD would have been cool. 

 

If these seem overkill, it's probably because I really liked the heist theme and I still feel the heist crew member system was underutilized, so a couple more heists for our own profit while maybe cutting Trevor's heist though I wouldn't mind keeping that too, would make the pursuit of the Almighty dollar theme seem more apt. If you feel it is too much then like I said 15-20 missions(with heist prep missions being 2-3 of these at most) between the six to seven heists would make the story around 90 to 120 missions which for 3 characters is how long the story should have been. The increase in length of the story could have been focused on each character doing their own thing, like Michael doing more Vinewood related missions, Trevor running his empire which we didn't see much off after he enters LS, and Franklin's mansion could have been delayed a bit while he's given some other arc to focus on especially when M and T are in exile. 

 

So this way the story will feel varied and not focused too heavily on the FIB angle and the heists won't feel like they come back to back, and a couple more heists added like the casino and Pacific standard bank would play more into the pursuit of the Almighty dollar and also give more spotlight to the heist crew members feature

Edited April 22, 2020 by Guest
Couple of typos

[TheSantader25]

I agree to some extent.

 

I would keep Blitz Play alongside the three you mentioned as well. I like the classic vibe of that heist. 

 

I would instead label the Merryweather Heist and the FIB heist as normal missions since they don't feel like actual heists. 

 

Technically speaking, GTA V's main missions are just as long as IV/SA because although they are fewer in quantity, some of them are quite longer than the average GTA mission. Though it still doesn't help because we still have a low amount of subplots. I would definitely increase the number of missions to 80+ so the heists would stand out.  The Countryside is specifically underused in this game and could gain advantage from a higher mission count. 

 

There are also a lot of small Fleeca banks across the map. I would love the option to rob them in free mode just like the stores. 

Edited April 28, 2020 by TheSantader25

[thisisdagger]

I just realized when I replayed the story how early the first heist is. I could have sworn it was much later the first time I played it.

[Niobium]

i think to strengthen the "pursuit of the almighty dollar" theme even more, the game should have been just about michael robbing banks. he should be able to stick up convenience stores in free roam, but he could also rob other things in side activities. he could be a burgular and break into rich people's houses at night. he could destroy atms and steal their money. in free roam, he could rob bigger targets than convenience stores, like small banks, small art galleries, etc, and make big money.

 

they should have just made franklin and trevor story mode DLC. franklin could focus on gang crime and there could be a big mission to take back grove street, while trevor could be focusing on expanding his drug empire in blaine county. (and cut out all of the hokey sh*t from trevor)

 

michael - robberies (all-new addition to GTA)

franklin - gang wars (like in SA)

trevor - drug empire (like in VCS)

Edited April 29, 2020 by Niobium

[.Ryan.]

Something I forgot to mention in my OP are the heist crew members. To be honest I loved the idea of this in theory, but in practice they're just....................eh.

 

I don't know if it's just me, but I never noticed any significant difference between them based on whether they were highly or lowly skilled. Unfortunately this seems to be because of GTA V's highly linear and scripted mission design. Like for example if you choose a sh*t getaway rider for the Vangelico heist he will always crash in the same spot. Or if you choose Rickie he'll always f*ck up. I just think it would've been nice if there was a degree of unpredictability on each playthrough.

 

Another issue I find with the crew members is despite the number of heists it feels like they're not utilised that well. The Merryweather heist and Blitz Play don't even use additional crew members for example. In all the playthroughs I've done of GTA V I use Packie as a gun man because the rest just feel like generic, forgettable goons. There's simply no incentive to use the other ones atleast to me.

 

I love the idea of this, but it feels like a wasted opportunity to explore more in depth. 

[Gettin up]

Jewel store was very fun indeed yes.

Blitz Play felt like the one from the movie The Heat.
I actually liked that you had to play all characters on that one. Switch, bang bang, then switch again.

I didn't like the Merryweather heist either. They could have made something better instead of that.

The Big Score obvious approach was very cool it's one of my favorites. All the shootouts and then escaping holding the gold by the helicopters. I mean that was just the mission you should expect from a game like GTA.

[El Penguin Bobo]

8 minutes ago, Gettin up said:

didn't like the Merryweather heist either. They could have made something better instead of that.

Honestly, if they got rid of the Merryweather heist completely from the game... absolutely nothing will change from the story. Even better, that boring Scouting The Port mission would have never existed.

 

All of the other heists were really fun though.

[Middle Class Roadman]

It's a shame the heists turned out how they did because from the way they were described the the pre release marketing I was really looking forward to them. 

 

Lets go back to San Andreas and think about the casino heist called Breaking The Bank At Caligula's - this was a heist where we had to do a number of fully fleshed out set up missions in the run up to the actual heist which included:

• Sneaking into a building to take photos of the casino blueprints
• Making a casino worker fall for you so she'll give you the keycard
• Infiltrating a dam and using stealth to plant charges then escaping
• Hijacking 4 police motorbikes and riding them onto a moving packer
• Stealing a helicopter from a military depot then using it to extract the armoured truck

For me this was one of the best mission strands featured in a Grand Theft Auto game and when Rockstar initially released information about these heists I was really looking forward to them as I thought they would go along similar lines to the BTBAC missions. I feel like GTA V attempted to replicate this approach but ultimately just didn't do it as good,  it was just done 100 times better in San Andreas. The so called set up 'missions' weren't actually missions and that was my main problem, buying masks and boiler suits counting as missions is nothing but laughable. In San Andreas the set up quests were fully fleshed out missions with cut scenes and such.

 

I think ultimately they tried to do too much with making heists the focal theme of the game. For me Three Leaf Clover is the best heist to ever feature in a GTA game, it was just a simple yet engaging mission without all the intricate planning and seemed somewhat believable compared to the heists in GTA V. 

 

On a positive note though my favourite heist was actually the IAA heist, using the janitor approach. some people may have found this way boring but I like slow paced, stealthier ways of doing things. 

[Lioshenka]

I actually agree. Until I read your post I never really realised there were "heists" in GTA 5. I mean, thinking of older GTAs it was all very obvious: in VC you robbed the bank, in SA you robbed Caligulas, in IV you robbed the bank all after careful preparation.

 

In GTA 5 Vangelico felt a bit like that, but then the rest of the game felt just like a bunch of normal missions. By that analogy, I can say that in SA robbing a bank with Catalina was a heist, stealing cars with Cesar was a heist, stealing a jet for Toreno was a heist.

 

V definitely lacked a clear boundary between them.

 

Not to mention that a significant part of it involved that lunatic Lester, and I just wanted to get over the part of the game where I might be hearing his voice.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Lioshenka

[Ryo256]

I think the major issue with GTA V is how little there is a payoff for anything. Even when you were working for the govt with Toreno, he still paid you for every mission you did. In IV, you had UL Paper contact who was the one that got you to Darko so there was an emotional pay off at least but for some reason V's FIB will screw you with almost no payoff. Vice city gave you an entire mansion for your work and III paid you almost every single missions. And honestly I found the Three Leaf Clover heist in IV a bit tedious but 250k is 250k.
 
Meanwhlie in V:



It's why GTA Online is so successful, they actually compensate you for every mission, they will give you something even if you failed it. But in Story mode, they usually spit on your face (quite literally with Michael and Madrazo's bitch) and expects you to be grateful.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Ryo256

[Copcaller]

I would replace the Merryweather heist with the casino heist from online but I think Vs main problem was it needed more missions as padding instead we get missions that could easily be combined like boiler suits and masks. Lack of payout is also annoying 

[Americana]

I would prefer Grand Theft Auto V to have 3 heavy heists with many more serious missions related to them.

 

---

[Badman_]

Another circlejerk thread.

 

 

So much has already been said about this "problem" (and many others).

One day perhaps people will get tired of complaining about GTA V.

7 years and stilll counting.

Edited May 5, 2020 by The Wolf Man

[El Penguin Bobo]

^ Honestly, I don't see this as a bitch and whine, more of constructive criticism. They could have just said, heist bad, and left it as that. I agree with some of the ways to make the heists better.

[Badman_]

I know how this community works when it comes to GTA V.

- When someone makes a negative criticism about the same subject... for the 100th time: constructive criticism.

- When someone makes a positive criticism recycling an old subject: the game is 7 years old. We've already discussed this. It's nothing new.

 

Anyway, I won't bother you anymore gentlemen. Stay safe 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by The Wolf Man

[El Penguin Bobo]

I've never actually seen anyone talk about heists, so this one's new to me

[Badman_]

1 hour ago, El Penguin Bobo said:

I've never actually seen anyone talk about heists, so this one's new to me

Edit: Pretty sure you will find even more in other forums around the web (plus YouTube).

 

(Last post I promise!).

Edited May 6, 2020 by The Wolf Man

[.Ryan.]

On 4/2/2020 at 12:13 PM, The Wolf Man said:

.Lol dude. You continue to intoxicate every thread that involves GTA 4.

 

Ignored from now on. Bye bye

 

13 hours ago, The Wolf Man said:

Another circlejerk thread.

 

 

So much has already been said about this "problem" (and many others).

One day perhaps people will get tired of complaining about GTA V.

7 years and stilll counting.

You know if you choose to "ignore" someone then it's probably not a good idea barging into one of their threads carrying on like a spammy troll right? It's pretty obvious all you read was the thread title. I'm not an idiot and I have a long memory son. 

 

In any case I still laugh at your observation that I "intoxicate" every thread that involves GTA IV like you have no idea how to use words in the right context. Regardless if similar threads were made 7 years ago I don't care because I'm not addressing if the heists were disappointing or if other heists were done better.

 

Don't like it? Get the f*ck out.

[Nappy]

invite me to your wedding

[Ryo256]

14 hours ago, The Wolf Man said:

I know how this community works when it comes to GTA V.

- When someone makes a negative criticism about the same subject... for the 100th time: constructive criticism.

- When someone makes a positive criticism recycling an old subject: the game is 7 years old. We've already discussed this. It's nothing new.

Actually that doesn't happen at all.

If you complain, you mostly get directed to the Official complaint thread. If you say something positive, it just gets ignored since we didn't have a praising thread to direct people to in the days when this game was literally the most praised game on the internet and anything close to a criticism was shot down. But now the tables have turned it seems.

Also I like your post on the Official complaint thread.

 

Maybe this is why we keep getting criticism threads, because people like you are still dismissing the game's flaws with 7 years in and counting it seems.

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Ryo256

[Badman_]

7 hours ago, Ryo256 said:

Actually that doesn't happen at all.

If you complain, you mostly get directed to the Official complaint thread. If you say something positive, it just gets ignored since we didn't have a praising thread to direct people to in the days when this game was literally the most praised game on the internet and anything close to a criticism was shot down. But now the tables have turned it seems.

Also I like your post on the Official complaint thread.

 

Maybe this is why we keep getting criticism threads, because people like you are still dismissing the game's flaws with 7 years in and counting it seems.

 

I can see that you are a new member. GTA 5 was praised on the internet but very, very criticized around here since day one.

 

I once made a topic praising the game's story and I was bashed away "because it was nothing new" and I was being redundant.

 

The consensus around here is that GTA V was disappointing. In the beginning it is understandable for you to show your disappointment. But to continue criticizing the game for the same reasons, over, over and over again, plus nitpicking and creating flaws that don't even exist is just sad and not necessary.

 

This is why I said that the whining thread is most of the time about nitpicking and fanboyism. People will easily praise a negative criticism of the game (creating nothing but a "circlejerk" around here).

 

'Till next time.

Edited May 6, 2020 by The Wolf Man

[Americana]

No need to be mad. Grand Theft Auto V is Rockstar's failure - no, not because it wasn't a good game. It's because it wasn't as good as it could have been.

 

---

[El Penguin Bobo]

OK, I can honestly see where The Wolf Man is coming from, this game does get overhated a lot around here (and trust me, I've seen worse games) but this thread isn't as nearly as bad as the others I've seen around here.

 

The other threads were just blatant sh*tflinging wars/hate threads, (mostly between IV and V) just hating and hating and not giving proper criticism on how to improve on that aspect of the game.

Edited May 6, 2020 by El Penguin Bobo

[Ryo256]

1 hour ago, The Wolf Man said:

I can see that you are a new member. GTA 5 was praised on the internet but very, very criticized around here since day one.

Actually I was a lurker here since 2013. I only made an account recently. I have personally seen the Official Complaint Thread since day one and saw it grow. In fact if you take a look at the early posts on it you will realize that actual complaints on it starts around the third page whereas the first 3 pages is mostly about how it's a perfect game and how the complaining thread is stupid because GTA V is a perfect game. But that's just one example, you can dig up even more back then of how much sacred this game was.

 

1 hour ago, The Wolf Man said:

I once made a topic praising the game's story and I was bashed away "because it was nothing new" and I was being redundant.

I seen many complaints thread here since 2013 that were legitimately constructive in criticism and told to shut up much like how praising threads have been told to be the same nowadays (though it's more about getting ignored then getting a response though). Community here was more intolerant to complainers at launch and now it seems to be intolerant to positive views as it goes on. However ever since I made an account here, I had to redirect about 3-4 complaint threads back to the official and allowed them to die out much like any other praising thread. V is just a forgotten game around these parts sadly, hate or love, no one really here cares except a few vocal members including me.

1 hour ago, The Wolf Man said:

The consensus around here is that GTA V was disappointing. In the beginning it is understandable for you to show your disappointment. But to continue criticizing the game for the same reasons, over, over and over again, plus nitpicking and creating flaws that don't even exist is just sad and not necessary.

You said that to all of the 146 pages on that thread, it's all the players' disappointment from start (2013) to the end (2020), by doing so you dismissed all the content in it including legitimate complaints along the actual nitpicking and the unnecessary non-existent flaws you claimed. So I ain't buying your explanation.
 

1 hour ago, The Wolf Man said:

This is why I said that the whining thread is most of the time about nitpicking and fanboyism. People will easily praise a negative criticism of the game (creating nothing but a "circlejerk" around here).

I don't disagree with that. This forum is now more negative than any GTA community towards V. Reason is because GTA V is massively praised since launch everywhere and it still is outside this community. People come here to vent because out there, GTA V is still shoved in peoples' face as the golden standard of gaming. That any game in its genre is just another GTA clone. So of course negativity will be generated, it's the natural response to over-praising something. If the hype doesn't live up to the false image we and Rockstar have come to paint of V, there will be people calling out bullsh*t. We are one of the few GTA communities that understand where they are coming from and of course we will welcome it. But as soon as criticism is understood and respected, it will just die out. Dismissing it will only make it grow.

[Badman_]

"You said that to all of the 146 pages on that thread, it's all the players' disappointment from start (2013) to the end (2020), by doing so you dismissed all the content in it including legitimate complaints along the actual nitpicking and the unnecessary non-existent flaws you claimed. So I ain't buying your explanation."

 

It was clearly an exaggeration of my part. Don't act like you never said something a little dumb in the heat of the moment. Just because it is recorded it doesn't mean I stand 100% with what I said. I explained what my point is. I can't force you to believe in my words.

 

48 minutes ago, El Penguin Bobo said:

OK, I can honestly see where The Wolf Man is coming from, this game does get overhated a lot around here (and trust me, I've seen worse games) but this thread isn't as nearly as bad as the others I've seen around here.

 

The other threads were just blatant sh*tflinging wars/hate threads, (mostly between IV and V) just hating and hating and not giving proper criticism on how to improve on that aspect of the game.

Thank you. This is pretty much my point.

 

This thread doesn't bring nothing new to the table. It's like going round in circles. Many of the people who are posting here have already discussed this subject in the past. What's the point? If you want to talk about it again then just go to one of the old threads. Don't act like an opportunist* whose only goal is to improve his ego (there are other communities out there for this).

 

@Ryo256 I read the rest of your post and I understand that you've been here for more time than I figured for. I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just think you got the wrong idea about what I said initially.

Edited May 6, 2020 by The Wolf Man
Change of words.

[El Penguin Bobo]

8 minutes ago, The Wolf Man said:

This thread doesn't bring nothing new to the table.

I appreciate this thread for not being, you know, another generic hate thread, even OP said it wasn't intended to be that.

 

As I said before, it's always good to give criticism to a game, every game isn't perfect but just hating on it just because doesn't really change anything lol.

[Ryo256]

17 minutes ago, The Wolf Man said:

This thread doesn't bring nothing new to the table. It's like going round in circles. Many of the people who are posting here have already discussed this subject in the past. What's the point? If you want to talk about it again then just go to one of the old threads. Don't act like a con man whose only goal is to improve his ego (there are other communities out there for this).

I do agree with you on this, I do believe this thread should just exist in Official Complaint thread. In fact I think anything remotely negative should just be there because it's much easier for frustrated people to go through 150 pages of complaints and be satisfied that someone out there doesn't think V is the messiah of gaming. That usually reduces the likelihood of creating another unnecessary complaint thread.

 

17 minutes ago, The Wolf Man said:

 

@Ryo256 I read the rest of your post and I understand that you've been here for more time than I figured for. I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just think you got the wrong idea about what I said initially.

I think I did get the wrong idea. I apologize for any misunderstanding. I just don't like dismissive behavior in discussion forums is all, if we can just word our appreciations and complaints of V in a respectful and understanding way then I think that's all this forum needs. That or we could just sticky the Official Complaint and (the newly made) Praising thread, never got why we didn't do that since 2013.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Ryo256

[.Ryan.]

2 hours ago, Ryo256 said:

I do believe this thread should just exist in Official Complaint thread.

But I'm not even "complaining". If I wanted to do that then I would've just went to the official complaint thread, but I feel there's more that be been discussed in a civil manner. The problem with posting in the complaint thread is it's fine for posting small, niggling complaints, but with this I want to invoke a flow of discussion that can also encourage positive discussion too. The Wolf Man has me on his "ignore" list so the odds are he hasn't even read what I was saying so he probably thinks I'm just mindlessly bashing even though I'm clearly not.

 

I know that similar threads have been made in the past (all those threads he posted are atleast 7 years old with the most recent being 2015), but I think we can all agree that most subjects regarding GTA V have been covered to some extent so where do we draw the line? If I saw someone made a thread like this recently then I wouldn't have made it obviously.