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Niobium

Johnny Klebitz Appreciation Thread

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Algonquin Assassin
1 hour ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

Karen now being a ruthless hardened IAA agent

This is getting a bit off topic, but I've always disliked Karen/Michelle in GTA V. Firstly in GTA IV after she's finished with Niko the UL Paper Contact implies when he says "we gave her life back" that she cut ties with them and I assume she just went back doing what she was doing before as that what it sounds like to me and secondly how and when did she become a high ranking IAA agent between GTA IV and GTA V? Again maybe this is something GTAO explains a bit more as she seems to have more of a role in that, but I'm strictly talking about GTA V and just like Trevor's rivalry with The Lost it feels shoehorned into the story just because "reasons" apparently. Infact I didn't know that's who she was until I came on here and people were talking about her.

 

Anyway I like using Packie as a crew member because lets face it he's still better than the other generic goons, but I have to admit the way we meet him is one of the most silly 1 in a billion chance encounters ever. His references to Three Leaf Clover are cool though and he's the best gunman to have so it's not all bad I suppose.

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TheSantader25
Posted (edited)

I f*cking hated Karen since the first day I saw her in IV anyways. Really wanted to kill her in GTA V. Instead we were given the opportunity to kill the ULP contact(which seems to be un-canon btw according to GTA ONLINE) who was a character I actually liked. 

 

Gotta say, I also hated how Johnny(or even Niko) screwed over Ray. Absolutely loved Ray as a character. It's also amusing because I'm barely fond of people who are a member of the italian mafia in the GTA Series. 

Edited by TheSantader25
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Niobium

karen went from someone who actually felt kind of bad for lying to niko, to a ruthless bitch who beat a man with a flashlight 😂 wtf rockstar. i hardly pay much attention to the story in online anyway because of the so called "MC Presidents" terrorizing los santos with their oppressor mk2s.

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Jeansowaty
1 hour ago, TheSantader25 said:

I f*cking hated Karen since the first day I saw her in IV anyways. Really wanted to kill her in GTA V. Instead we were given the opportunity to kill the ULP contact(which seems to be un-canon btw according to GTA ONLINE) who was a character I actually liked. 

THIS THIS THIS AND ONCE AGAIN THIS. Finally someone agrees how much of a bitch she was.

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universetwisters
On 5/8/2020 at 8:58 PM, Algonquin Assassin said:

 

 

I have a slightly different view about Luis. I really don't remember anyone praising him and even if some people were "parroting" Drunken Cowboy then no one (that stands out anyway) was doing the same for Luis. Guys like Drunken Cowboy, B Dawg, Niobium etc and other TLAD OGs were/are doing their bit for the fanbase, but can you seriously name anyone by name from the Luis fanclub? Because I can't and I've been here longer than you and basically everyone else that's posted in this thread so far.

 

Luis is alright, but I don't see how he was any more popular than Johnny. I think we can all agree that out of the trio Niko is definitely the most popular one, but between Johnny and Luis it seem to be basically level. I've been looking through the TBOGT forum and I'm hard pressed to find any specific examples of people "loving" Luis or at the very least more than Johnny.

 

Of course that doesn't mean that people don't. It's just nothing springs to mind like it does with Niko and Johnny.

 

 

 

I can't think of any names off the top of my head or anybody who particularly wouldn't shut up about Luis and mentioned him whenever they got a chance, I just remember Johnny and TLAD usually coming up last in polls about who the best IV episode/protag was for the most part

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Cutter De Blanc

I prefered free roaming in EFLC as Luis. Johnny's a better written character, but personally I didn't like him as much. Johnny always angry and upset, Luis just dont give a f*ck. Plus Luis had funner toys to play with. 

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Algonquin Assassin
7 hours ago, universetwisters said:

 

I can't think of any names off the top of my head or anybody who particularly wouldn't shut up about Luis and mentioned him whenever they got a chance, I just remember Johnny and TLAD usually coming up last in polls about who the best IV episode/protag was for the most part

 

But now the tide has shifted. Sorry Luis fans.

 

I get the impression that he's mostly liked by non-GTA IV fans. He doesn't have the appeal within the GTA IV fanbase like Niko and Johnny and it's rare to see anyone comment on his personality/character in any sort of depth or articulated analysis. Mostly I just see him a vessel for TBOGT's crazy sh*t that people seem to like than him himself.

 

Don't get me wrong he's definitely not the worst protagonist in the series, but he's not as interesting/well written as Niko and Johnny are.

 

 

10 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

I f*cking hated Karen since the first day I saw her in IV anyways. Really wanted to kill her in GTA V.

To be honest I didn't hate her that much in GTA IV. In a strange kind of way I felt sorry her that she was basically just doing her job, but in turn she started falling for Niko. Niko's reaction was perfectly understandable when he found out that she was basically using him, but at the same time I felt some sympathy that she was pretty much a victim of her job. I guess that's the danger of working undercover and getting too close.

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Nappy

Watched that cutscene again some time ago and she was pretty scared. It seemed Niko was thinking "should I kill her?", i'd like seeing it tbh.

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Eugene H. Krabs

I know this is supposed to be a Johnny thread but I really wish they made it more subtle Michelle was an undercover agent. I mean seriously, almost every time her mouth opens, it's about crime and if Niko's involved with it. I saw the "twist" coming from light years away.

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Algonquin Assassin
9 minutes ago, Eugene H. Krabs said:

I know this is supposed to be a Johnny thread but I really wish they made it more subtle Michelle was an undercover agent. I mean seriously, almost every time her mouth opens, it's about crime and if Niko's involved with it. I saw the "twist" coming from light years away.

This only became apparent to me on the second playthrough. The "clues" stick out like a sore thumb looking back in hindsight, but I didn't think she was an undercover agent at first. I just thought she was nosey and curious because she wanted to get to know Niko, but nothing struck me that she was working for the government specifically.

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TheSantader25

@Algonquin Assassin

Speaking for myself, I never felt any sympathy for her. She didn't seem even slightly ashamed of what she did to Niko and came across as a selfish prick to me. 

 

I didn't exactly call out who she was when I first saw her but based on the conversations, I knew "something" was off about her. 

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MyNameIsNotImportantBro
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

She didn't seem even slightly ashamed of what she did to Niko and came across as a selfish prick to me. 

In the mission "Wrong is right" Michelle apologized to Niko, If you listen carefully to the dialogue.

Edited by OmarMohammed

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TheSantader25
1 minute ago, OmarMohammed said:

In the mission "Wrong is right" Michelle apologized to Niko, If you listen carefully to the dialogue.

Though I never felt it was genuine. Non of her actions seem genuine to me. 

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Algonquin Assassin
4 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

@Algonquin Assassin

Speaking for myself, I never felt any sympathy for her. She didn't seem even slightly ashamed of what she did to Niko and came across as a selfish prick to me. 

 

I didn't exactly call out who she was when I first saw her but based on the conversations, I knew "something" was off about her. 

Fair enough.

 

I mean I wasn't balling out my eyes, but when she tells Niko that she'd been working for the government the whole time it was clear she had some hesitance in her voice like she was ashamed of telling of telling him, but had to because it's what she was tasked with. 

 

Sorry Niobium. I know this thread's about Johnny, but still an interesting sub conversation nonetheless.

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universetwisters
Posted (edited)
On 5/10/2020 at 9:23 PM, Algonquin Assassin said:

 

But now the tide has shifted. Sorry Luis fans.

 

I mean it'd be nice to have gotten a thread/poll from before V came out and people started parroting Drunkencowboy but what can you do.

Edited by universetwisters
sh*t my pants at Walmart last night
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Jeansowaty
14 hours ago, universetwisters said:

 

I mean it'd be nice to have gotten a thread/poll from before V came out and people started parroting Drunkencowboy but what can you do.

There was somebody called "fefenc" or something along the lines who was a heavy Luis fan. Admittetly, there aren't as many Luis fans as Johnny fans out there, true, but when it comes to me, I find him to be a well-written protagonist, but not one of the best. He's just "okay" to me. I've grown on him and the TLAD boys quite a lot but I felt some disconnect considering that they were your enemies in IV after No Way on the Subway and that later Johnny kidnapped Roman. His death was a shock since you don't see a protagonist die in such way but hey, it was 7 years ago. Sure it could've been written better, but you sadly ain't gonna change how the canon story is (but GTA Online is non-canon to me anyway). I like to think that V is in the same canon as the IV Revenge Ending (CTW likely too), but if it were in the same canon as the Deal ending, things would have been much different.

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Niobium
9 hours ago, Jeansowaty said:

There was somebody called "fefenc" or something along the lines who was a heavy Luis fan. Admittetly, there aren't as many Luis fans as Johnny fans out there, true, but when it comes to me, I find him to be a well-written protagonist, but not one of the best. He's just "okay" to me. I've grown on him and the TLAD boys quite a lot but I felt some disconnect considering that they were your enemies in IV after No Way on the Subway and that later Johnny kidnapped Roman. His death was a shock since you don't see a protagonist die in such way but hey, it was 7 years ago. Sure it could've been written better, but you sadly ain't gonna change how the canon story is (but GTA Online is non-canon to me anyway). I like to think that V is in the same canon as the IV Revenge Ending (CTW likely too), but if it were in the same canon as the Deal ending, things would have been much different.

and despite the fact that johnny and niko screw each other over, they still get along better than michael and trevor, who are supposed to be best friends 😂

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Jeansowaty

Right :yee:

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Niobium
Posted (edited)

i was doing some thinking about johnny klebitz's death, and then it f*cking hit me. johnny's death was symbolic, but not in the way defenders of the scene think.

 

think about rockstar's attitude towards single-player DLC. since GTA IV came out, there have been three amazing and fun DLCs (TLAD, TBOGT, and undead). but when GTA V came out, they announced a story mode DLC. then they later dropped it and pretended they never announced it. instead, they shifted to focusing their efforts on pumping DLC for online. in fact, it seems like some of the DLC for V's story mode has been repurposed for online. rumors were that the doomsday stuff was originally for single player. i also personally believe that the casino DLC was originally meant for single player as well, because players have requested rockstar to open the casino for so long, and they finally did- but it was only for online. (i don't have any proof for this ofc, but it seems reasonable to believe so)

 

so why continue to pump out DLC for V and RDR2 online instead of single player? because it makes more money, duh. when TLAD came out, it was actually pretty revolutionary because it set an example for what a single-player DLC can really do. it felt more like an expansion pack than a small DLC. but according to reports, take-two was not satisfied with the sales of EFLC. it could be because it was sold too late after IV came out, or it could be that it was an xbox exclusive for a year, but the point is that the execs in charge were starting to believe that single-player DLC was not worth investing in.

 

IV came out in 2008.

EFLC came out in 2009.

RDR came out 2010. undead came out later in the year.

LA noire came out in 2011.

max payne 3 came out in 2012.

GTA V came out in 2013. no single player DLC.

no new games between 2013 and 2018, apart from a GTA V port for the PS4.

RDR2 came out in 2018. no SP DLC has been released since, and i expect no DLC in the future.

we are in 2020, and no new games from rockstar have come out since RDR2.

 

something changed since GTA V came out. since GTA V, no single player DLC or game has been released by rockstar until five years later, with the release of RDR2. no new single-player content has been released since then. do you see rockstar's treatment towards single-player? they no longer focus on single-player content as much, because they figured they could make more money with less effort. they figured that they could make more money from shark cards/gold bars than a quality single player DLC.

 

so rockstar's sh*tty treatment of johnny k, a protagonist of a story-mode DLC, is how they feel towards ALL single-player DLCs (not just TLAD). the day johnny died was the day that single-player DLC died. intentional or not, johnny's death was symbolic of the death of story-mode DLC.

Edited by Niobium
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MyNameIsNotImportantBro
15 minutes ago, Niobium said:

the day johnny died was the day that single-player DLC

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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Niobium
1 minute ago, OmarMohammed said:

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

maybe you should read my post so you'll know what i am talking about?

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MyNameIsNotImportantBro
Just now, Niobium said:

maybe you should read my post so you'll know what i am talking about?

I read it, Explaining rockstar treatment to Singleplayer and DLC? And V came out everything changed? I'm not trying to be toxic or rude or anything like that, but that doesn't make a connection towards Johnny's death .

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Niobium
Just now, OmarMohammed said:

I read it, Explaining rockstar treatment to Singleplayer and DLC? And V came out everything changed? I'm not trying to be toxic or rude or anything like that, but that doesn't make a connection towards Johnny's death .

johnny is a single-player DLC protagonist. rockstar doesn't like single-player DLC. rockstar kills johnny. understand now?

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MyNameIsNotImportantBro
1 minute ago, Niobium said:

johnny is a single-player DLC protagonist. rockstar doesn't like single-player DLC. rockstar kills johnny. understand now?

Why they didn't kill Luis then?

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Niobium
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, OmarMohammed said:

Why they didn't kill Luis then?

i was trying to explain that it was symbolic.... that doesn't mean rockstar intentionally killed johnny to show how much they hated single-player DLC. symbolism doesn't have to be intentional

Edited by Niobium

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MyNameIsNotImportantBro
1 minute ago, Niobium said:

i was trying to explain that it was symbolic.... that doesn't mean rockstar intentionally killed johnny to show how much they hated single-player DLC.

Oh ok, you were just guessing? I guess?

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Niobium
Just now, OmarMohammed said:

Oh ok, you were just guessing? I guess?

if that's how you want to view it, sure.

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Algonquin Assassin
On 5/13/2020 at 3:02 AM, universetwisters said:

 

I mean it'd be nice to have gotten a thread/poll from before V came out and people started parroting Drunkencowboy but what can you do.

But I don't see why it matters if people were "parroting" Drunken Cowboy since he got banned 5 years ago. I seriously doubt HE was the reason that people took notice of Johnny. That's like saying people parrot me when it comes to Niko.

 

In any case I found an older thread that was made just after TLAD released and it shows that people were thinking about Johnny long there was even a GTA V.

 

Like I said maybe GTA V helped some people get back into Johnny/TLAD for whatever reason, but I don't see that as a bad thing. Even before GTA V Johnny was hardly the most disliked protagonist and maybe it's because some people may have never even played TLAD a bit like how Huang Lee isn't that highly rated. Not necessarily because he's a bad protagonist, but probably because some people haven't played CTW or atleast not enough to form an opinion on him. Lets also remember back when TLAD first launched in 2009 it was only available on 360 and PS3 and PC players had to wait for some time before they got to play it themselves thus a large portion of the fanbase were cut out.

 

Anyway regardless of whether no cared about Johnny before GTA V (which has been proven NOT to be true) the important thing is he's praised for the things that make him such a compelling and interesting guy now. 

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TheSantader25
Posted (edited)

I don't think it really matters who the least popular IV protagonist is/was. Obviously R* didn't kill Niko which was a right move. They killed the protagonist who made the most sense for him to be in San Andreas given the Lost's origins and the events of EFLC. I think they picked the most sensible one to kill. 

 

In the end Johnny's dead. 

Edited by TheSantader25
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Algonquin Assassin
3 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

In the end Johnny's dead. 

He isn't when I play TLAD.;)

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