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CheapArtiste

I have a theory: Ryder didn't want to be an antagonist

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CheapArtiste
Posted (edited)

So this is how it starts off-

 

 

Ryder was forced by Smoke to join Tenpenny. Like, he was threatened
in the introduction. We can even see smoke and ryder talking about it.

Many hints link to it. Like, Ryder told others Ballas car was having a drive by and the others weren't looking, if he really was not forced
he wouldn't have said a word.

And Ryder even shot the mob of cops coming to stop him and CJ from robbing the weapon supplies in the mission Robbing Uncle Sam. He and CJ went to the army and completed the mission.

All for Grove Street.

To give Grove Street dem guns.

Maybe rockstar had an arguement with Ryder's voice actor, so they decided to end him like that, cuz in the ryder's death mission, he says

"I'm a motherf*cking genius"

Which was already said alot back then.

Ryder could've never been an antagonist

You see,
Smoke's missions never benefited grove street
it just benefited him, and C.R.A.S.H
but Ryder's missions benefited Grove Street everytime..

 

Please tell me your thoughts on my theory and give additional points to support it if you have any, or state the possible loopholes about it and possibly debunk it. Thanks.

Edited by CheapArtiste
Edited the whole thing cus it was f*cked up before
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Carl Theft Auto

I thought he didnt really wanna be an antagonist at all but CJ is just too blind to see.

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Rhoda

I feel the hierarchy of command went C.R.A.S.H. > Big Smoke > Ryder.

 

Ryder went along with it, corrupted by the power and the drugs. Over time we saw his mental state deteriorate and he made increasingly questionable decisions. Given his personality, Ryder couldn't be trusted with any of the heavy work that was seen as risky. Smoke (like him or not) is dripping with charisma and has the gift of the gab. It stands to reason that Ryder would be sent out on these little trips that ultimately mean nothing in the long run to maintain the illusion he is a key player in all of this. He wasn't. He was swept up, taken advantage of and used, but in a different league to CJ. This isn't to say that Ryder is a good person, he absolutely isn't, but he was definitely strung along.

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Carl Theft Auto

I think the reason why Ryder betrayed grove is because he felt that he is not a major part of Grove. And the reason why he kept mocking CJ about everything (like his haircut) is because he felt that CJ is always receiving support and love from Big Smoke and Sweet, I don't remember Smoke and Sweet Supporting Ryder, but I remember in the mission House Party, Sweet was complementing CJ (like he's an Ice Cold Killer or something like that), and then Ryder got jealous and ask Sweet about what have Ryder done good that CJ didnt, Then Sweet just pushed Ryder away. Ryder joined Ballas because maybe that way he will be loved as much as how CJ was loved by Sweet and Smoke.

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LordStarship

And I thought the only reason Ryder betrayed Grove was because he knew about Smoke betrayal and Smoke forced him to join. He eventually accepted his fate and got along with it, becoming one of Loco Syndicate is a big deal.

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GhettoJesus

Yes it is a popular theory. Ignoring that it was probably a last minute decision to make him an antagonist it was clear that he was forced into betraying the Grove. Also druing Drive-thru Smoke tries to stop him from talking about the green Sabre. Ryder also says "You don't know what's going on" to CJ during Robbing Uncle Sam.

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NileshKumar
On 4/13/2020 at 2:00 PM, Carl Theft Auto said:

I thought he didnt really wanna be an antagonist at all but CJ is just too blind to see.

Umm, you are blind?

 

Ryder is still a mystery...

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MihajloS
Posted (edited)
Spoiler

xvfGTJL.jpg

Good theory. There are indications that Ryder actor was asking for more money, so he was fired by Rockstar games! They love to do it... only  money!

:r*:💲

Edited by MihajloS
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Carl Theft Auto
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, NileshKumar said:

Umm, you are blind?

If Wu Zi Mu see this, he will get the triads and kill you.

 

Wait he can't coz hes blind, sorry.

Edited by Carl Theft Auto
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StuntMaster100
On 4/14/2020 at 2:29 PM, GhettoJesus said:

Yes it is a popular theory. Ignoring that it was probably a last minute decision to make him an antagonist it was clear that he was forced into betraying the Grove. Also druing Drive-thru Smoke tries to stop him from talking about the green Sabre. Ryder also says "You don't know what's going on" to CJ during Robbing Uncle Sam.

yep I read somewhere it was a last minute change to make him an antagonist

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CheapArtiste

So is it confirmed that Ryder was made an antagonist in the end because of the payment issues and arguments with MC Eith?

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watersgta3
8 hours ago, CheapArtiste said:

So is it confirmed that Ryder was made an antagonist in the end because of the payment issues and arguments with MC Eith?

Either that or Ryder's VA was probably busy making his albums during the time the game was released and didn't have time to record more dialogue, so R* had no other choice. If they really wanted to get rid of him, they should've had him killed in the Green Sabre mission when he would help Sweet in the battle against the Ballas. I actually rewrote the game's storyline in FF to show what would happen if R* decided to keep Ryder on the GSF.

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Big_Smiley
59 minutes ago, watersgta3 said:

Either that or Ryder's VA was probably busy making his albums during the time the game was released and didn't have time to record more dialogue, so R* had no other choice

OG Eiht didn't have any major albums at the time If remember correctly in the years. There could've been various reasons why eight was cut off early from voicing Ryder. Is there proof he was actually cut early from voicing other lines? Na. Whatever happened between him and R* has always led up to speculation. I still had lots of respect for R*'s choice to include this Compton MC while the other being MC Frost. The Game was pretty good as B-Dup aswell even though I wish R* just gave him a little more voice lines before finishing his work in beat down on B-dup.

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DK06282000
Posted (edited)

I can't believe there are actually people who like this character. Osho was indeed right about this terrible excuse of a character. Everything about him is very bad. His looks, his annoying voice, and most importantly, his personality. How could anybody like this light skinned asshole? He has been very cruel and sociopathic towards CJ since day one, always talking sh*t to him and attacking him. I can't believe everyone else just stands there and lets that light skinned asshole treat CJ with such cruelty instead of standing up for him. How could any of you people like this character at all?!! If someone was treating you with this level of cruelty, you wouldn't like that character at all, now would you?! I'm more upset that CJ was upset about killing this asshole. But I think the story would've been so much better if Ryder was NOT included in this game at all, because he ruined the first half of the story for all of us. Worst, most unmemorable, most forgettable character ever.

5 hours ago, watersgta3 said:

Either that or Ryder's VA was probably busy making his albums during the time the game was released and didn't have time to record more dialogue, so R* had no other choice. If they really wanted to get rid of him, they should've had him killed in the Green Sabre mission when he would help Sweet in the battle against the Ballas. I actually rewrote the game's storyline in FF to show what would happen if R* decided to keep Ryder on the GSF.

How about you quit blaming VAs and R* for Ryder's own choice. He was cruel towards CJ since the very beginning and never had anything slightly nice to say about him. How can you or anyone else like that light skinned crack smoking asshole at all?

 

Also, I read that story of yours, and it was terrible. How anyone actually liked it is a million dollar question. Like I said before, people should talk about much more important characters of the series, such as Sal Leone, Catalina, Sweet, Big Smoke, Rosenberg, Lance Vance, Toreno, Woozie, Cesar, OG Loc, and even Tenpenny and Pulaski, because they're actually memorable and likable and will be remembered while this asshole, Ryder, is pretty much forgotten and extremely unmemorable and should've never been in the game to begin with, because he ruined the whole first half of the storyline.

Edited by DK06282000

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LordStarship
1 hour ago, DK06282000 said:

I can't believe there are actually people who like this character. Osho was indeed right about this terrible excuse of a character. Everything about him is very bad. His looks, his annoying voice, and most importantly, his personality. How could anybody like this light skinned asshole? He has been very cruel and sociopathic towards CJ since day one, always talking sh*t to him and attacking him. I can't believe everyone else just stands there and lets that light skinned asshole treat CJ with such cruelty instead of standing up for him. How could any of you people like this character at all?!! If someone was treating you with this level of cruelty, you wouldn't like that character at all, now would you?! I'm more upset that CJ was upset about killing this asshole. But I think the story would've been so much better if Ryder was NOT included in this game at all, because he ruined the first half of the story for all of us. Worst, most unmemorable, most forgettable character ever.

How about you quit blaming VAs and R* for Ryder's own choice. He was cruel towards CJ since the very beginning and never had anything slightly nice to say about him. How can you or anyone else like that light skinned crack smoking asshole at all?

 

Also, I read that story of yours, and it was terrible. How anyone actually liked it is a million dollar question. Like I said before, people should talk about much more important characters of the series, such as Sal Leone, Catalina, Sweet, Big Smoke, Rosenberg, Lance Vance, Toreno, Woozie, Cesar, OG Loc, and even Tenpenny and Pulaski, because they're actually memorable and likable and will be remembered while this asshole, Ryder, is pretty much forgotten and extremely unmemorable and should've never been in the game to begin with, because he ruined the whole first half of the storyline.

Ryder is like your friend that's always complaining, being cruel, all that stuff, but at the end of the day, he still cares about you. Without Ryder himself, I don't think the crew would have the same atmosphere. He keeps saying he drives better than CJ, but he's just pointing at the truth of the players that always crash their cars, not pointing towards CJ. 

 

Another reason is, CJ actually likes being around Ryder. With Ryder he always jokes and all, having fun, trying to get Ryder to lay down his crack. Even when he killed Ryder, he still can't accept that Ryder is actually the evil and he's gone, only after Cesar told him that Ryder nearly bang Kendl, which I don't think it's completely true since character like Ryder doesn't need a girl, he just needs friends like in the GSF. That's why Ryder is likeable, because he's relatable.

 

Points aside, it's up to you if you want to like him or not, but Ryder should've not been an antagonist in the first place.

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Americana

Who knows, as far as I understand Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas doesn't even have a real story.

 


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Tiago_The_Gamer96

He was forced by Big Smoke to betray his gang

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Jeansowaty
14 hours ago, watersgta3 said:

Either that or Ryder's VA was probably busy making his albums during the time the game was released and didn't have time to record more dialogue, so R* had no other choice. If they really wanted to get rid of him, they should've had him killed in the Green Sabre mission when he would help Sweet in the battle against the Ballas. I actually rewrote the game's storyline in FF to show what would happen if R* decided to keep Ryder on the GSF.

I was reading it once on wattpad iirc, could you possibly link it up? I think the last bit I read was when they were in San Fierro.

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GhettoJesus
7 hours ago, LordStarship said:

Ryder is like your friend that's always complaining, being cruel, all that stuff, but at the end of the day, he still cares about you. Without Ryder himself, I don't think the crew would have the same atmosphere. He keeps saying he drives better than CJ, but he's just pointing at the truth of the players that always crash their cars, not pointing towards CJ. 

 

Another reason is, CJ actually likes being around Ryder. With Ryder he always jokes and all, having fun, trying to get Ryder to lay down his crack. Even when he killed Ryder, he still can't accept that Ryder is actually the evil and he's gone, only after Cesar told him that Ryder nearly bang Kendl, which I don't think it's completely true since character like Ryder doesn't need a girl, he just needs friends like in the GSF. That's why Ryder is likeable, because he's relatable.

 

Points aside, it's up to you if you want to like him or not, but Ryder should've not been an antagonist in the first place.

Ryder is the funny guy from the group, his lines are hilarious. Cesar could have made up that part about Ryder and Kendl to make CJ feel better about Ryder's death. If Ryder really tried to bang Kendl then Cesar would have been way more angrier at Ryder and would have tried to kill him himself.

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CheapArtiste
5 hours ago, Jeansowaty said:

I was reading it once on wattpad iirc, could you possibly link it up? I think the last bit I read was when they were in San Fierro.

I'd like to read his version of the story, do you have the link? Please send it if you do, thanks.

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watersgta3
6 hours ago, Jeansowaty said:

I was reading it once on wattpad iirc, could you possibly link it up? I think the last bit I read was when they were in San Fierro.

https://www.wattpad.com/story/214732568-gta-san-andreas-re-write

1 hour ago, CheapArtiste said:

I'd like to read his version of the story, do you have the link? Please send it if you do, thanks.

https://www.wattpad.com/story/214732568-gta-san-andreas-re-write

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12231702/1/Grand-Theft-Auto-San-Andreas-Re-write

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watersgta3
1 minute ago, CheapArtiste said:

Thanks!

No prob.

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thisisdagger
On 4/19/2020 at 1:20 AM, DK06282000 said:

I can't believe there are actually people who like this character. Osho was indeed right about this terrible excuse of a character. Everything about him is very bad. His looks, his annoying voice, and most importantly, his personality. How could anybody like this light skinned asshole? He has been very cruel and sociopathic towards CJ since day one, always talking sh*t to him and attacking him. I can't believe everyone else just stands there and lets that light skinned asshole treat CJ with such cruelty instead of standing up for him. How could any of you people like this character at all?!! If someone was treating you with this level of cruelty, you wouldn't like that character at all, now would you?! I'm more upset that CJ was upset about killing this asshole. But I think the story would've been so much better if Ryder was NOT included in this game at all, because he ruined the first half of the story for all of us. Worst, most unmemorable, most forgettable character ever.

How about you quit blaming VAs and R* for Ryder's own choice. He was cruel towards CJ since the very beginning and never had anything slightly nice to say about him. How can you or anyone else like that light skinned crack smoking asshole at all?

 

Also, I read that story of yours, and it was terrible. How anyone actually liked it is a million dollar question. Like I said before, people should talk about much more important characters of the series, such as Sal Leone, Catalina, Sweet, Big Smoke, Rosenberg, Lance Vance, Toreno, Woozie, Cesar, OG Loc, and even Tenpenny and Pulaski, because they're actually memorable and likable and will be remembered while this asshole, Ryder, is pretty much forgotten and extremely unmemorable and should've never been in the game to begin with, because he ruined the whole first half of the storyline.

I also remember not really liking him since he was such a dick towards CJ all the time. Though maybe that was also just banter which I did not understand at the time where I first played the game. Sadly these kind of inflated asshole characters are somewhat of a recurring trend in GTA games. I find them to be quite cringy. Lamar at the beginning of GTA 5 is the same kind of douchebag and I really don't understand how Franklin is still hanging around with him after some of the the sh*t he pulled off.

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Evil empire

There are at least 1000 similar topics.

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Carl Theft Auto

Grove Street Doesn't support wearing underwears anymore so Ryder aint got no choice but to join ballas to be able to wear some underwear.

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Vladistar_895

SA storyline is full of mistakes and logic is missing. Ryder should died in The Green Sabre mission fighting close to Sweet. Why is he an antagonist? It doesn't make sense because of the recycled dialogue. So if Ryder's voice actor couldn't do more voice acting for whatever reason, he should died in The Green Sabre and used recycled dialogue. It would've made more sense.

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CheapArtiste
19 hours ago, Vladistar_895 said:

SA storyline is full of mistakes and logic is missing. Ryder should died in The Green Sabre mission fighting close to Sweet. Why is he an antagonist? It doesn't make sense because of the recycled dialogue. So if Ryder's voice actor couldn't do more voice acting for whatever reason, he should died in The Green Sabre and used recycled dialogue. It would've made more sense.

I don't know what to think about him dying in the Green Sabre mission, but sniping Ryder while he swims to his boat was a lot more funner lol. Ain't nobody got time to chase him in his boat!

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zBadBooyBR

 

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OmarMohammed
Posted (edited)

Long-story short, The voice actor of Ryder has quite, R* didn't know what to do with the character so R* just killed him in a disrespectful way 

On 4/24/2020 at 10:17 PM, Evil empire said:

There are at least 1000 similar topics.

For the love of god, If you don't like these 1000 similar topic's, then get out, is it too hard to understand?

Edited by OmarMohammed
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