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Why Vice City WORKS in modern times(my arguments)


The Made Man
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Good point. I forgot LC was flat as hell. Heck in real life Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens are mostly flat with very FEW inclines. Its only the Bronx that can be hilly but even still its more flat compared to LA. I really don’t see a big deal with flat vs hilly in gameplay.

 

Screw hilly gameplay give me strong weather effects especially with new technology like hurricanes that impact gaming since southern Florida has a lot of hurricanes. Now that’s revolutionary…

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21 hours ago, DexMacLeod said:

Because I was speaking primarily about driving. Driving on a flat and straight island gets boring pretty quick and driving from point A to point B

This is one of the reasons why the driving was the way it was in GTA IV. 3D era-esque simplistic physics just would be way too boring on such roads, so Rockstar made the driving physics much more complicated in order to accomodate the flat design of the roads. This is also something Rockstar could do in GTA VI, but it is 110% not going to happen, I don't even need to explain why.

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35 minutes ago, olzhas1one said:

This is one of the reasons why the driving was the way it was in GTA IV. 3D era-esque simplistic physics just would be way too boring on such roads, so Rockstar made the driving physics much more complicated in order to accomodate the flat design of the roads. This is also something Rockstar could do in GTA VI, but it is 110% not going to happen, I don't even need to explain why.

Yea i think people keep imagining the simplistic driving of GTA VC i.e the 3D era driving. Which didn’t even have weather effects for driving. And like I showed before GTA VC was small af compared to real life Miami…

I’ll post this again…

mapa_oblasti.jpg

 

 

vs 

 

Hwug5AA.jpg

 

Lil Havana in red. And lil Haiti in Blue. Look how FAR apart they are in real life.  A lot of Miami neighborhoods were missing as you can see. For those who think an HD rendition of Vice City will be small then think again. They not going to have a 9 month rush like last time. 3D Vice City was definitely a 9 month rush.

 

Overall, The LC IV comparison is a good comparison.  

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18 hours ago, DexMacLeod said:

lol, than I think maybe this just isn't the franchise for you.

 

Not really, it's pretty consistently been the only key negative bit of feedback about the last two major releases. They are using the same formula as they have since GTA III. It's old, tired and needs rethinking.

 

Never at any stage in my 200 hour playthrough of GTA V did I once think, 'oh a mountain, great, was getting bored of driving on the flat.'

 

18 hours ago, DexMacLeod said:

That's not at all the same. Los Santos still looks like Los Angeles. What's surrounding it doesn't change that. If they give Miami hills and twisty roads it's just not quite Miami anymore. I'd be fine if they chose to do that, but I just don't think they will.

 

You are missing the point. I'm not suggesting they are going to put mountains on a map of Miami. My point is that they take creative liberties where necessary to make their maps interesting as a game world. They will almost certainly condense various elements from Florida outside of the main city to do this. There are mountains in Florida, let's not pretend there isn't. As well as an additional surrounding landmass like Cuba, which isn't flat.

 

18 hours ago, DexMacLeod said:

I suppose after two minutes of playing the first GTA, I just realized that driving is a key component of the series' gameplay. As someone who enjoys games where driving is literally the only thing you can do, I don't have a problem with that. Driving in GTA games has almost always been fun so long as it's interesting and engaging. For me, flat straight roads don't provide that.

 

I mean I really don't agree. For a start Miami isn't just straight roads. It has a lot of straight roads, sure, but not really much different to Liberty City or Los Santos. American cities are built on a square grid system by design. As said in the above comment area's surrounding will be important, just like the map of GTA V. With Miami you have places like Big Cypress National Preserve, the everglades, all geographically interesting places that will allow for aspects of gameplay we haven't seen before in a GTA game. If you think those places are less interesting that driving over a mountain, that's fine, but I don't. 

 

And in terms of driving games, some of the best street racing games ever made are pretty flat and straight in terms of road layout. Burnout III, NFS Underground etc. They had to be because of their crude physics and lack of any jumping mechanics. Turning a corner is the same regardless of whether the road bends or if it's a 90 degree angle to the next street. Even more interesting on sharp corners if you ask me. Way preferred driving and taking sharp corners in GTA IV. Way more in line with a racing game, as opposed to slugging your way through the tight and awkward Hollywood hills.

 

Edited by DarkDayz
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4 hours ago, olzhas1one said:

This is one of the reasons why the driving was the way it was in GTA IV. 3D era-esque simplistic physics just would be way too boring on such roads, so Rockstar made the driving physics much more complicated in order to accomodate the flat design of the roads. This is also something Rockstar could do in GTA VI, but it is 110% not going to happen, I don't even need to explain why.

 

Meh, I'd say the primary reason was because of how tight/congested a lot of the roads were. I think Liberty City did a pretty good job of providing a diverse selection of driving roads, though. I'm not sure if giving every vehicle massive understeer is going to help as much in a place like Vice City but there's probably something they could do.

 

35 minutes ago, DarkDayz said:

Not really, it's pretty consistently been the only key negative bit of feedback about the last two major releases. They are using the same formula as they have since GTA III. It's old, tired and needs rethinking.

 

I don't even know what to say to this. The key complaint about GTA is that you have to drive places?

 

I'm not even going to address the rest. It just feels like you're struggling to keep an argument going that never needed to be an argument in the first place. Or like you're trying to convince me not to prefer diverse driving conditions in an open-world game that relies heavily on driving for it's map traversal simply because you don't care for the driving one way or the other. 

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33 minutes ago, DexMacLeod said:

but there's probably something they could do

I personally think weather affecting seriously your driving could be interesting, since it's Miami. Maybe they could finally include storms and make it harder to drive through them? Or the rain making your car far more slippery than it has been in previous titles, though considering how poorly received the driving was in GTA IV I'm afraid they won't ever try something interesting with it.

  

5 hours ago, The Made Man said:

And like I showed before GTA VC was small af compared to real life Miami…

I honestly always hated the Grand Theft Auto Vice City map. Aside from it feeling much smaller than GTA 3 (not sure if it's actually smaller), it was also incredibly poorly made. So many things are mis-sized and the second island literally has buildings that are just boxes with photos slapped on them. GTA 3, which was a year prior, was not this bad.
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I could send more pictures but you get the point. Rockstar's sloppiest job yet.

Edited by olzhas1one
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2 hours ago, olzhas1one said:

I personally think weather affecting seriously your driving could be interesting, since it's Miami. Maybe they could finally include storms and make it harder to drive through them? Or the rain making your car far more slippery than it has been in previous titles, though considering how poorly received the driving was in GTA IV I'm afraid they won't ever try something interesting with it.

 

Yeah, better weather affects could help, I think that's a tough balance to find though. There's a really thin line between rain slicked roads that make driving more fun/engaging and rain slicked roads that just make it a tedious nightmare to get around. Personally, I like sliding around a bit so I don't mind a slicker road, but I don't want to have to worry about hydroplaning every time I try to get around an NPC vehicle.

 

I'd like to see them add things like traction control and ABS that can be turned off/on and actually change the way the car feels. 

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3 hours ago, DexMacLeod said:

 

Meh, I'd say the primary reason was because of how tight/congested a lot of the roads were. I think Liberty City did a pretty good job of providing a diverse selection of driving roads, though. I'm not sure if giving every vehicle massive understeer is going to help as much in a place like Vice City but there's probably something they could do.

 

 

I don't even know what to say to this. The key complaint about GTA is that you have to drive places?

 

I'm not even going to address the rest. It just feels like you're struggling to keep an argument going that never needed to be an argument in the first place. Or like you're trying to convince me not to prefer diverse driving conditions in an open-world game that relies heavily on driving for it's map traversal simply because you don't care for the driving one way or the other. 


No, the key complaint being that a lot of the gameplay hours is the simple A-B mission path. A lot of which is driving because of the nature of the game. There is far too much of it. It is too simple and outdated. My argument was that if people get bored of it - which a lot do - it is nothing do to with the map. That’s all.

 

I’m not struggling at all, I have provided completely adequate responses to everything you’ve said and you’ve come back with that. So it’s not really me struggling. I’m here to discuss - which means sometimes my opinion will differ from the person I’m discussing a topic with. If you don’t wish to continue the discussion that’s fine, we’ll just leave it there.

 

I just didn’t think and still do not think the best creators of open world maps in the industry aren't going to continue their form because of straight and flat roads in Miami. Just think it’s a ridiculous statement. Cheers.

 

Edited by DarkDayz
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16 hours ago, olzhas1one said:

I personally think weather affecting seriously your driving could be interesting, since it's Miami. Maybe they could finally include storms and make it harder to drive through them? Or the rain making your car far more slippery than it has been in previous titles, though considering how poorly received the driving was in GTA IV I'm afraid they won't ever try something interesting with it.

  

I honestly always hated the Grand Theft Auto Vice City map. Aside from it feeling much smaller than GTA 3 (not sure if it's actually smaller), it was also incredibly poorly made. So many things are mis-sized and the second island literally has buildings that are just boxes with photos slapped on them. GTA 3, which was a year prior, was not this bad.
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I could send more pictures but you get the point. Rockstar's sloppiest job yet.

Good post. I believe VC was technically only SLIGHTLY bigger than 3D LC but not by much. But 3D LC was much more detailed and alive. And yes, the “mainland” of the VC map felt very bland, dry and dead. Unlike the 3 islands of LC. 

 

 

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It's because it was originally intended to be expansion/DLC but they then decided to make it a full game which caused it to be rushed and unfinished. This is super obvious once you unlock second Island, Downtown being fairly small with a lot of UV and texture issues around the second island (First island has UV and texture issues too but not as much as the second).

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1 hour ago, ChubbyB0b said:

with a lot of UV and texture issues around the second island (First island has UV and texture issues too but not as much as the second).

Every single GTA has these issues. I have found plenty of these things in GTA 4 and even GTA 5. For some reason, the most common issue across all games is mis-sized doors.

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One of many in GTA V

 

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There's even more of them in GTA IV but this one is the most insane example. Niko is NOT resized in this image, believe me.

 

In fact, I've found so many of these doors, even ones that are too tiny, and them being so noticable that I'm starting to believe that this is some kind of an inside joke between Rockstar modellers and it makes me wonder if we'll see this... stuff return in GTA VI.

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