John Marston's Hair

[Red Hardbro]

All they have to do is just fix his got Damn hair! Man!! Is it really that hard if a task people have been asking for it since the game came out what the F UCK is the hold up. It just shows how scummy they really are to pretend not to see all these request, but instead keep updating that week azz online tack on that nobody is playing!!

[kubon352]

It's not hard for the devs, they just don't care anymore about SP.

[Holphino]

1 hour ago, Kubigz said:

It's not hard for the devs, they just don't care anymore about SP.

They really don't, but they had a PERFECT opportunity with the PC release to fix it. They added new bounties, new weapons, a new stranger mission, and a whole new mode to the game(photo mode). Which were all added to the console version via patch, so the same thing could've EASILY been done with John's hair.

 

ᵀᵃᵏᵉ ᵃ ˢʰᵒᵗ ᵉᵛᵉʳʸᵗᶦᵐᵉ ᴵ ˢᵃᶦᵈ "ⁿᵉʷ"

Edited March 12, 2020 by Holphino

[DanceKino]

40 minutes ago, Holphino said:

They really don't, but they had a PERFECT opportunity with the PC release to fix it. They added new bounties, new weapons, a new stranger mission, and a whole new mode to the game(photo mode). Which were all added to the console version via patch, so the same thing could've EASILY been done with John's hair.

 

ᵀᵃᵏᵉ ᵃ ˢʰᵒᵗ ᵉᵛᵉʳʸᵗᶦᵐᵉ ᴵ ˢᵃᶦᵈ "ⁿᵉʷ"

Thing is they don't see it as a problem. From their POV John is perfectly fine with jet black left parted hair as it was changed "per design" to show how much he "cares about Arthur" and that he has him in "his heart" or something.

Edited March 12, 2020 by DanceKino

[Excalibur Voltaire]

John's problem isn't really just the hair, but his design as a whole is uncanny

 

-While His hair looks slightly more tolerable if you wear a hat, it looks out-of-place if he's not wearing a hat

 

-John's facial animation reuses Arthur's one, making their expressions looks eerily similar

 

-John's face looks more rugged in both 1899 & 1911 yet the 1907 one looks just as clean as Arthur with the only difference being the scar

 

-While Arthur's walking and fast walking animation is different, John's fast walking is simply faster version of normal walking

 

-John's body looks offset with his skinny arms

 

-there's also a few things Arthur can do that John can't

 

-and lastly, if you compare Arthur and 1907 John's model, they looks creepily similar to each other, which is another uncanny valley

[Dying]

1 hour ago, DanceKino said:

Thing is they don't see it as a problem. From their POV John is perfectly fine with jet black left parted hair as it was changed "per design" to show how much he "cares about Arthur" and that he has him in "his heart" or something.

I think they do have a lot other problems in SP and Online (last one is cash cow and goes first), which need to be fixed first, before they are going into "cosmetics".

You also see, that PC release date was set and meet under highest pressure, because the released PC version was really bad compared to 1.00 for PS4 or XBOX. Some bugs also flipped to console later on together with "improvements" of the PC version.

[IzzyBlues]

Guys... There was a 12 year canonical time jump between RDR1 and RDR2. Can we please just leave it at that as to why John looks different and move on?

 

Seriously if I see another one of these threads pop up again I'm going to sh*t my pants.

[Old Man With No Name]

38 minutes ago, IzzyBlues93 said:

Guys... There was a 12 year canonical time jump between RDR1 and RDR2. Can we please just leave it at that as to why John looks different and move on?

 

Seriously if I see another one of these threads pop up again I'm going to sh*t my pants.

Not 12. Its just 4.

1899:John original hair

1907:Found arthurs hair in his satchel and wore it

1911:John original hair

[IzzyBlues]

2 hours ago, GroveStGTAV said:

Not 12. Its just 4.

1899:John original hair

1907:Found arthurs hair in his satchel and wore it

1911:John original hair

4 years is still a fair amount of time for someone to change their appearance.

[Dying]

47 minutes ago, IzzyBlues93 said:

4 years is still a fair amount of time for someone to change their appearance.

Indeed.

Well some guys here complain about R* laziness that they used the most easiest way to imply both characters to be used as player including animations, clothing fitting, haircut possibility etc. by ignoring the difference (except scars and general head shape) between them.

 

Further points of some guys here is that Abi did not changed her appearance at all, but John did (including name). But she was not wanted.

That Abi stick to her name and John returns to his wanted name and bought land (within the wanted area!) with it forced the possibility that Edgar Ross found/tracked them within few weeks (or months).

This whole action was not clever, but of course the way R* choose to set a bridge between RDR and RDR2.

 

The hair issue can be fixed, at least by users of PC version, if R* would not do it.

The other points are bigger work if it should look well without bugs/clipping etc.

 

[Holphino]

1 hour ago, Dying said:

Indeed.

Well some guys here complain about R* laziness that they used the most easiest way to imply both characters to be used as player including animations, clothing fitting, haircut possibility etc. by ignoring the difference (except scars and general head shape) between them.

 

Further points of some guys here is that Abi did not changed her appearance at all, but John did (including name). But she was not wanted.

That Abi stick to her name and John returns to his wanted name and bought land (within the wanted area!) with it forced the possibility that Edgar Ross found/tracked them within few weeks (or months).

This whole action was not clever, but of course the way R* choose to set a bridge between RDR and RDR2.

 

The hair issue can be fixed, at least by users of PC version, if R* would not do it.

The other points are bigger work if it should look well without bugs/clipping etc.

 

I understand that they most likely gave Arthur's hair to John because they didn't feel like modeling a bunch of new hairstyles for him. That makes sense to me, but what doesn't make sense is why John's NPC hairstyle isn't even an option. All they have to do is make it an option in the barber, they could even put it over length 7. It'd be that easy honestly, I mean the files for his hair are literally already in the game.  Plus John's NPC hair is compatible with playable John, as you can see in this pre-release screenshot.

 

Notice the satchel? Only playable John is ever seen wearing a satchel.

 

Also about your Abigail point, yes it's true she isn't wanted like John is, but John is only in hiding in Epilogue, Part 1. In Epilogue, Part 2 he starts going by his real name again, so i don't see any reason as to why he'd look so drastically different at that point in the story.

6 hours ago, IzzyBlues93 said:

Guys... There was a 12 year canonical time jump between RDR1 and RDR2. Can we please just leave it at that as to why John looks different and move on?

 

Seriously if I see another one of these threads pop up again I'm going to sh*t my pants.

Ok, I get your point. I don't exactly look the same way I did 12 years ago, but John having Arthur's hair is physically impossible. John has thin stringy greasy hair all throughout the main portion of RDR2, and RDR1. For him to suddenly have Arthur's thick clean hair, just really doesn't make any sense(plus John has a completely different hairline than Arthur, so unless he got a hair transplant there is no way he would have hair that even remotely looked like Arthur's, no matter how many years have passed). 

 

\

Gifs by @Darealbandicoot

 

One of these things is not like the other.

And yes I agree, there are too many threads about this on GTAForums. Not much we can do about it though.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Holphino

[Darealbandicoot]

8 hours ago, IzzyBlues93 said:

Guys... There was a 12 year canonical time jump between RDR1 and RDR2. Can we please just leave it at that as to why John looks different and move on?

 

Seriously if I see another one of these threads pop up again I'm going to sh*t my pants.

People naturally grow their dead friends hair except black and left parted and magically revert back to their own hair and color 4 years later? 

On 3/12/2020 at 11:43 AM, DanceKino said:

Thing is they don't see it as a problem. From their POV John is perfectly fine with jet black left parted hair as it was changed "per design" to show how much he "cares about Arthur" and that he has him in "his heart" or something.

Yep and don't forget butchering his signature cowboy outfit by giving him inflated bigger trash bag gloves, inflated Ranch disco pants, worse looking Cassimere shirt, and a totally buttoned up cowboy vest while taking the absolute piss and giving the correct true cowboy outfit to Red Dead Online. 

 

Oh and now making it so his clothes f*ck up if the satchel is removed plus not using Rob Wiethoffs fully recorded puking noises instead using Arthur’s when Red Dead Online has fully unique puking noises for male and female added. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Darealbandicoot

[JMarston]

2 hours ago, Holphino said:

 

\

Gifs by @Darealbandicoot

 

Those gifs are beautiful because they perfectly show how John NPC really is a young version of the John RDR. Instead the playable John, who should be much more similar to his version of John RDR, since he is very close to reaching the age he was in those events (only 4 years old), but no, they decide to put Arthur's hair on him, even if it is necessary to move John's ears to fit Arthur's hair...

[IzzyBlues]

I dunno man. People like to nitpick to the nth degree. I totally understand why people would be upset about things like this considering Rockstars attention to detail to other things, the thing is though, does anyone actually care though? And does it really matter when you are running around, riding your horse, getting shot at? Do you guys play the game in super slow motion and analyze every strand of hair and every piece of clothing on John while you are in high action moments?

 

I mean seriously, think about it. As others have stated in this thread, you can get John to look like himself in RDR1 for the most part just by tweaking his hairstyle and beard. As for the "trash can" gloves and "disco pants". I have no problem with these as John always had these clothes in RDR1. I actually love John's pants as they widen at the end, they are very similarly structured to the Bandito pants which I always dress my characters in because I've always loved the wider flare/bootcut style of pants, I just think they look cool, but again, different tastes and all.

 

Anywho I really think mods should start insta-locking these threads because this has been discussed to death a million times. It's clear they aren't going to revert or patch any changes to John's model in SP. It's been a while now since the game has released so people really need to get over this stuff. I'ma bow myself out of this thread though.

Edited March 13, 2020 by IzzyBlues93

[JMarston]

20 minutes ago, IzzyBlues93 said:

I dunno man. People like to nitpick to the nth degree. I totally understand why people would be upset about things like this considering Rockstars attention to detail to other things, the thing is though, does anyone actually care though? And does it really matter when you are running around, riding your horse, getting shot at? Do you guys play the game in super slow motion and analyze every strand of hair and every piece of clothing on John while you are in high action moments?

 

I mean seriously, think about it. As others have stated in this thread, you can get John to look like himself in RDR1 for the most part just by tweaking his hairstyle and beard. As for the "trash can" gloves and "disco pants". I have no problem with these as John always had these clothes in RDR1. I actually love John's pants as they widen at the end, they are very similarly structured to the Bandito pants which I always dress my characters in because I've always loved the wider flare/bootcut style of pants, I just think they look cool, but again, different tastes and all.

 

Anywho I really think mods should start insta-locking these threads because this has been discussed to death a million times. It's clear they aren't going to revert or patch any changes to John's model in SP. It's been a while now since the game has released so people really need to get over this stuff. I'ma bow myself out of this thread though.

[DanceKino]

59 minutes ago, IzzyBlues93 said:

I mean seriously, think about it. As others have stated in this thread, you can get John to look like himself in RDR1 for the most part just by tweaking his hairstyle and beard. As for the "trash can" gloves and "disco pants". I have no problem with these as John always had these clothes in RDR1. I actually love John's pants as they widen at the end, they are very similarly structured to the Bandito pants which I always dress my characters in because I've always loved the wider flare/bootcut style of pants, I just think they look cool, but again, different tastes and all.

 

I agree with you to a certain degree. John's hair when tweaked enough can look pretty similar to what it did in early RDR1 screenshots with a correct color so unless you zoom into John's hair 24/7 or remove your hat you won't notice much of a difference. The only problem I kind of have with his hair is the inability to remove hat and still look good, but to offset that, I just remember how in RDR1 you couldn't even remove your hat at all unless you wore 2 specific outfits.

However, my real problem with John comes with his 'post 1.00' version, where for some weird reason he gets Arthur's chest and shoulders, I mean, what's the point of changing them if his own chest and shoulders work PERFECTLY FINE? Chest and shoulders difference is pretty damn noticeable to me, especially if I wear something like Duster Coat. 
I don't know about you, but I instantly notice these huge oversized "trash can" gloves and laugh at them as they're INCREDIBLY inaccurate to what John wore in RDR1.
Speaking of "disco pants"; pretty much every variation of Ranch Pants by default is wide HOWEVER, in 1.00 John has less wider variation of them, which is more similar to what he had in RDR1 so this means they just removed (made unique versions look pretty much like any other to be more precise) 3 unique variations of Ranch Pants for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON.

Edited March 13, 2020 by DanceKino

[Holphino]

5 minutes ago, DanceKino said:

I agree with you to a certain degree. John's hair when tweaked enough can look pretty similar to what it did in early RDR1 screenshots with a correct color so unless you zoom into John's hair 24/7 or remove your hat you won't notice much of a difference. The only problem I kind of have with his hair is the inability to remove hat and still look good, but to offset that, I just remember how in RDR1 you couldn't even remove your hat at all unless you wore 2 specific outfits.

However, my real problem with John comes with his 'post 1.00' version, where for some weird reason he gets Arthur's chest and shoulders, I mean, what's the point of changing them if his own chest and shoulders work PERFECTLY FINE? Chest and shoulders difference is pretty damn noticeable to me, especially if I wear something like Duster Coat. 
I don't know about you, but I instantly notice these huge oversized "trash can" gloves and laugh at them as they're INCREDIBLY inaccurate to what John wore in RDR1.
Speaking of "disco pants", pretty much every variation of Ranch Pants by default is wide HOWEVER, in 1.00 John has less wider variation of them, which is more similar to what he had in RDR1 so this means they just removed 3 unique variations of Ranch Pants for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON.

Honestly we just need a John overhaul mod at this point. I'd be satisfied with just his hair restored, but John with the correct hair, open vest, smaller 1.00 gloves, 1.00 body, fixed ear position, and correct pants would be amazing. 

[Old Man With No Name]

https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/john-marstons-signature-hairstyle-from-chapters

Do you guys remember this?

Over 2.600 votes. Can you put this link to main post?

[cp1dell]

Let’s not have this spiral out of control again and get the topic locked. Petitions are useless, Rockstar is never going to do anything, just forget about it.

 

Eventually someone will make a mod for the PC to restore John’s hair. It’s inevitable. How soon depends on when OpenIV begins to support .ydr and .ytd for RDR2, and editing. Or josh releasing his mod/posting the hash. Whichever comes first. As of right now, it’s looking like we’ll have to wait on OpenIV since for whatever reason josh has no interest in sharing the hash with the community. So unless someone else does some digging and finds it, we’re waiting on OpenIV.

[TableTennisChamp]

On 3/13/2020 at 7:27 AM, JMarston said:

Those gifs are beautiful because they perfectly show how John NPC really is a young version of the John RDR. Instead the playable John, who should be much more similar to his version of John RDR, since he is very close to reaching the age he was in those events (only 4 years old), but no, they decide to put Arthur's hair on him, even if it is necessary to move John's ears to fit Arthur's hair...

Interesting how they gave John a nose job for RDR2 haha but this is a great comparison. If someone wanted to make the model for RDR1 exactly then the nose would be changed slightly, hair swept back a little more and trimmed just a tad, make him look a little angrier, his jawline, lips, and chin could be adjusted slightly.

[Excalibur Voltaire]

On 3/10/2020 at 10:34 PM, Kubigz said:

Well, I guess it's because you don't see him naked that often.

Sorry for the late response because I just noticed this but actually John does have his own shirtless body model which was shown during the house building montage. Which is during the epilogue no doubt, yet they don't use that model and used Arthur's one instead

[Darealbandicoot]

On 3/21/2020 at 5:02 PM, Legion of Hell said:

Sorry for the late response because I just noticed this but actually John does have his own shirtless body model which was shown during the house building montage. Which is during the epilogue no doubt, yet they don't use that model and used Arthur's one instead

NPC John also has his own body which is similar to the 1.00 John size 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Darealbandicoot

[spoonman039]

3 minutes ago, Darealbandicoot said:

NPC John also has his own body which uses the 1.00 John size 

yeah, that's pretty weird because I think it hasn't been used in game at any point. maybe in beta

[JMarston]

Red Dead Redemption Cover

Red Dead Redemption Artwork

John in RDR

Beta John from RDR

Red Dead Redemption II Artwork

John NPC in RDR II

John 1907 in RDR II pre-launch picture

John 1907 in RDR II mission picture

John 1911 / John 1899

John in GTA Online

 

 

 

 

 

 

Epilogue...

[cp1dell]

B-but, if you let his hair grow to m-m-max length it looks just like his original hair!

It's not noticeable!

 

Can't forget the classic: "People's hair change over time, that's totally why he goes from the style he has in 1899, to what he has in 1907, to only go back to the 1899 style come 1911!"

 

Oh, and the occasional: "Oh my gosh, balls shrink! Horses actually poop! I saw an animal attack another animal! Look at this scar on Arthor!! Rockstar are the GAWDS at detail!"

"It's just hair, wh-who cares!"

 

Like come on guys, Rockstar is only going to have PIs kick down your door if you try porting assets from one of their games to another, not if you admit they are lazy over the dumbest things sometimes.

Edited March 26, 2020 by cp1dell

[Gummy]

You guys are all wrong

 

THIS is John's real hair!

 

 

 

 

His hair glitched for whatever reason.

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Gummy 

[Holphino]

29 minutes ago, Gummy  said:

You guys are all wrong

 

THIS is John's real hair!

 

 

 

 

His hair glitched for whatever reason.

 

Perfection.

 

Every once in awhile RDR2's engine just decides to go mental with the hair physics for some reason. I've seen it do this a bunch of times with Arthur's hair too.  

[Badman_]

On 3/25/2020 at 11:12 PM, cp1dell said:

B-but, if you let his hair grow to m-m-max length it looks just like his original hair!

It's not noticeable!

 

Can't forget the classic: "People's hair change over time, that's totally why he goes from the style he has in 1899, to what he has in 1907, to only go back to the 1899 style come 1911!"

 

Oh, and the occasional: "Oh my gosh, balls shrink! Horses actually poop! I saw an animal attack another animal! Look at this scar on Arthor!! Rockstar are the GAWDS at detail!"

"It's just hair, wh-who cares!"

 

Like come on guys, Rockstar is only going to have PIs kick down your door if you try porting assets from one of their games to another, not if you admit they are lazy over the dumbest things sometimes.

They focused most of their efforts on the main campaign (Ch. 1-6), where the player can run through at least 90% of the entire game if he's dedicated, only to "relax" from the Epilogue onwards. 

I'm not saying that the Epilogue is bad (I quite liked it), but they clearly didn't have the same dedication on it. 

It would be better to just end the game with the "Red Dead Redemption" mission, giving the player the opportunity to free roam with Arthur afterwards.

If you ain't gonna make things properly then just don't do it.

Edited March 28, 2020 by The Wolf Man

[cp1dell]

I don't know, the epilogue seemed just as well polished aside from the John hair thing, and useless insertion of New Austin--which was obviously never supposed to be there from the start.

 

I would have taken a finished, and complete Guarma that basically works as RDR2's version of Mexico/Mexico chapter over New Austin any day. It's nice to see it updated with the visuals of RDR2, but it's just a waste and huge tease for something RDR1 related that we'll never get.

[hellsoldier06]

Of course.. new austin is simply useless...

Only 3 legendary animals, 2 fish, 2 bounty hunting missions and some dinosaurs bones...

 

To me, 3 or 4 unknow missions was the minimum to expect from the game....

 

And the god damn hairs to. Why dont create a unique hair growing for john.... especially when all the haircuts variations are in the game for a bit of NPC...