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In-Lore Chapter 6 Decisions

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Posted (edited)

After finishing Chapter 6 in RDR2, i was left slightly confused about why Javier and Bill would side with Dutch and Micah. The real answer is that they still needed John to have an issue with Bill, Javier and Dutch for RDR1, but what about the in-lore answer?

OPTION A: Dutch, Micah, Cleet, Joe

+Dutch is the leader of the gang, and someone they trust

+Greed for Money

+Bill doesnt like John

+Javier killed someone powerful in Mexico over a woman and thus he sees that John could betray the gang to keep Abigail and Jack safe

+Dutch, Micah, Javier and Bill had days to themselves in Guarma, before Arthur woke up, during when they likely just hunted for food and chatted, likely Micah had gotten Dutch, Javier and Bill to like Micah

OPTION B: Arthur, John, Grimshaw, Abigail, Tilly, Sadie, Jack.

+Arthur and Grimshaw have been in the gang for 20 years, the 3rd and the 4th ones to join

+John has been in the gang for 15 years, likely longer than Bill and Javier

+Javier and Bill saw when Micah shot Grimshaw

+Micah has been in the gang for maybe a year

+Dutch said there was nothing he could do for John, yet John was clearly alive

+Micah calls Javier a greaser, and Bill a dimwit, Javier and Bill do not like Micah, thus likely dont like Cleet and Joe either

+Dutch's hold has clearly slipped, while Javier and Bill dont know this, they should at least notice a change in Dutch, especially when Dutch didnt mind Grimshaw dying in front of them

+Arthur and Sadie had saved Abigail, while Dutch didnt care, Arthur and John clearly have a reason other than Money

+Arthur, Sadie and Abigail had killed Agent Milton

+Micah had gotten Davey, Mac and Jenny killed and Sean taken

-Abigail, Tilly, Sadie and Jack were not present to voice their opinions


As far as i can see, Javier and Bill have little reason to join in with Dutch and Micah, other than money. Opinions?

Edited by Tekno1
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Dark Spark

Bill is too stupid to figure any of this out himself, and Javier was extremely reluctant to actually draw on Arthur and John. He may have had doubts himself, but was too afraid to let it push him over the tipping point and turn on Dutch.

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I’ve seen many people theorize that one of the more important developments that comes from Guarma is Dutch saving Javier—which probably has a lot to do with him siding with Dutch later on.

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I found this... Its Interesting...

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I think it's simply blind loyalty to Dutch. In different ways, Javier and Bill are both outcasts, in Dutch they found acceptance and a philosophy they thought they could buy into (although they failed to notice that was being rapidly discarded).


Javier for example if you go fishing with him in Chapter 3 will talk about his time as a revolutionary in Mexico and how he feels Dutch understands the problems with society. Bill, kicked out of the army, was somewhat of an unwanted loner - Arthur commenting to Dutch in "Who the Hell is Leviticus Cornwall?" : "where did you find that moron?", but Dutch accepts him and brings him in to a community.


I think such blind loyalty is enough to explain why they at least stick with Dutch in the heat of the moment during the mission "Redemption" when things really blow up. However, we don't really know what happens thereafter. We do know by the events of RDR 1 they have gone their separate ways, and perhaps this parting happens relatively soon thereafter. Their absence is noticeable in "American Venom". The loyalty is instinctive, but I think after more time for reflection following the events of Chapter 6 (whilst not being shot at), they'd have realised Dutch's vision they'd bought into had fallen apart. Rational people would realise much quicker (i.e. the gamer with the birds eye view). But actually, like in real life when people fully "believe" in something, as Bill and Javier did in Dutch and his "plan", it takes quite a lot to dislodge that belief.

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