Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. GTANet.com

    1. GTA Online

      1. Los Santos Summer Special
      2. The Diamond Casino Heist
      3. Find Lobbies & Players
      4. Guides & Strategies
      5. Vehicles
      6. Content Creator
      7. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Frontier Pursuits
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
    3. Crews

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. PC
      2. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Redemption

    1. Grand Theft Auto Series

    2. GTA VI

      1. St. Andrews Cathedral
    3. GTA V

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
    4. GTA IV

      1. The Lost and Damned
      2. The Ballad of Gay Tony
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
    5. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
    6. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
    7. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
    8. Portable Games

      1. GTA Chinatown Wars
      2. GTA Vice City Stories
      3. GTA Liberty City Stories
    9. Top-Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    1. GTA Mods

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Red Dead Mods

      1. Documentation
    3. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    4. Featured Mods

      1. Design Your Own Mission
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Rockstar Games

    2. Rockstar Collectors

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Movies & TV
      5. Music
      6. Sports
      7. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    3. Gangs

    1. Announcements

    2. Support

    3. Suggestions

Scion Dracos

Feedback from an Old Gamer

Recommended Posts

Scion Dracos

Dear Rockstar,


I'm a grandfather who has been playing video games since Asteroid and Pac Man. I spent an obscene amount of time playing GTA 3 and, at the time, fully expected to continue being a Rockstar customer, gamer and fan. GTA IV, however, began to turn me off. There were too many situations in which the challenge was based on overcoming the limitations of the game engine and control interface in order to tell my avatar what to do. This is bad design, guys. Challenges based on the limitations of your game engine  only serve to highlight those limitations... often in a negative light. I never finished GTA IV, for instance. Nor have I ever purchased or played GTA V. I was just never interested in revisiting the frustrations inherent in those games. Then your ported Red Dead Redemption 2 to PC and I was really interested. Well I've been playing RDR2 for the past week and I have been thoroughly reminded of why I never finished GTA IV or bothered picking up V. The games are really bloody frustrating. 


Arthur got too close to a guy on the road and the other guy, despite the fact that I had no weapons drawn and was only interested in making sure my horse was okay, took offense and started shooting at me. Before I could shoot back I had to:

1) Wait for the animation in which Arthur is comforting his horse to complete.

2) Open the weapon wheel and select my revolver.

3) Aim...


... why isn't he aiming?





For some reason I'd gotten stuck in the dialogue mechanic and had to press an extra key to aim my weapon. 


By the time I figured out what was going on Arthur was falling off his horse and I had to decide whether to reload and lose the last hour of progress or continue and lose all the perfect pelts I was carrying. If making players rage quit and never purchase your games again is your goal then you're on track. Spot on. Well done. 

If that's not what you want then may I make several suggestions? 


1st: refine your control schema. It is cumbersome, counter intuitive and really REALLY bloody frustrating. I don't enjoy frustration. Maybe some people do. I don't. I have no idea how many times I've been sitting in my chair, staring at the screen with a stupid look on my face, asking "why did you just do that?" or "why won't you [fill in the blank... mount a horse, run away, climb a fence or aim his bloody weapon]?" There's always a reason but after a week of playing this game I can tell you that I'm so annoyed that I don't want to do it anymore. The controls feel like an obstacle to rather than a conduit for my intentions and I have repeatedly found myself walking away in disgust and frustration. That's not a good look. Maybe you're fine with it but I would recommend you pay a little more attention to making the controls feel effortless. 

2nd: Animations should NEVER be a higher priority than control. If I want/need Arthur to do something waiting on him to complete an animation is just maddening. 

3rd: It would be nice if NPC interactions were a little more plausible: Some guy reigns his horse in on the path next to me while I'm brushing my horse. He gets offended when I don't move and starts shooting at me. WTF? Really? Everybody is crazy? 

Come on. 

Anyway, just wanted to say that I really do want to play RDR2. I want to explore it thoroughly and complete the story and get my money's worth. I just don't know if doing so is worth the aggravation... which will factor into my future purchasing decisions. You guys make amazing and progressively more beautiful open world sandboxes. The writing and story elements are top notch. I'm in. I want to play... I just want playing to feel more like play and less like hitting myself in the nuts with a hammer. 


Alright, I'm done.
Cheers and carry on.

  • Like 1

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
Mr. Jabe

As much as I liked GTA IV and somewhat saw it's clunkiness as a bit of a charm, even I have to got to a point with Rockstar where I think something needs to change with their design priorities. As incredible as the animations are in RDR2 they do impact the enjoyability of playing what is - at the end of the day - a game. No matter how much some people at the company seem to be embarrassed about making such.


I do think (maybe more like hope) that RDR2 is the straw that has broken the camel's back in this regard. It was at the forefront of criticism about the game and I think was what cost them all those game of the year awards that I think they were anticipating. Not to mention the impact it has had on the performance of Red Dead Online where the issues in gameplay are laid bare for all to see. I tried playing RDO earlier but just quit after getting insta-killed by auto-aim rifles which you can't actually blame anyone for using due to how awful the manual aiming is. The core gameplay - stripped of the context and atmosphere of story mode - just isn't enjoyable.


The impact on Red Dead Online's bottom line should surely make them sit up and take notice, if nothing else. 

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

alright i heard this a lot, even saw threads like “controls are garbage”. but is it as bad as you say like really, even on pc with some nice fps? or is it worse than gta IV’s? because gta IV’s controls were...aahh, you choose the words. asking this cuz i haven’t played the game. thank you for any replies.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Much as I agree with everything and literally everything in the OP. You are living in a capatilistic world. And Game companies are no exceptions to it.


They always do what they do for a very good reason. Be it PC or Gamebox, or Playstation.


I know who knew communism failed everyone always getting what they want. But I do take your points.


That said the way the PC game is set up is sh*t let's face it.


It's like playing in clunky world, but it was a rushed out thing RS games don't seem to think PC is worth their time even though all games are written on PCs whether they are for Play station orgiinally or what not. And they really are because almost everyone on Earth has a PC, not everyone has a PC, some have an X-Box and PC, some even have x. But PC is by far the biggest market. You would do well not to exploit your biggest user base with half arsed is all I am  saying.


Great games but I think your CEO needs a kick in the arse.


You wont go far wrong appealing to the lowest common denominator. That was maths joke look it up.


Insert <Henry Ford quote here> 😛

Edited by Calrid123

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

My grandpa had a go on the Nintendo Wii a few years back, he was rubbish at that too

  • Like 3

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
Scion Dracos

For clarification I'd like to add a couple details.
Firstly, I think RDR2 is an amazing game. On my machine (Haswell i5 4690k @3.8ghz, Nvidia 980ti, 16gb ram) it plays fairly well. I get a framerate that is both stable and above my monitor's refresh rate. The controls tend to be crisp and responsive with very little to no script based lag. There was some nasty stuttering for a while but an update to the Nvidia drivers sorted that out. Visually the game is stunning. The world design is gorgeous and a pleasure to explore. The writing is top notch.


My complaint is specifically about how often the controls feel cumbersome and counter-intuitive. All this post was meant to do was call attention to it in the hopes that the dev team will make an effort to iron such issues out for future releases.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • 2 Users Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 2 Guests

  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.