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Nuevo Paraiso Discovery - Datamining


VideoTech_

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Cutter De Blanc
15 hours ago, Duhillestpunk said:

That does sound like something Todd would say but I do remember Rockstar saying that as well. In fact I think it was during an interview for Red Dead Redemption 2. I’ll try and find it.

They said it to the previewers, then again the previewers weren't allowed to see every place,  so it wasn't technically a lie

Edited by Cutter De Blanc
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Pretty much every open world developer in the past decade or so has been guilty of the "if you can see it you can go to it!" shtick. I remember Randy Pitchford I think saying it for Borderlands 2, which isn't even open world, but then again that was Randy Pitchford who's one of the greasiest people in the industry.

 

It will never be reality as long as we continue to have landlocked worlds and I don't know why people still fall for it now and then.

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TheJesus1996
18 hours ago, cp1dell said:

@Duhillestpunk Pretty sure that was Todd Howard when talking about Skyrim. "You see that mountain? You can climb it!"

That was Kojima with Death Stranding

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TheJesus1996
3 minutes ago, Alexlecj said:

He said that too, only he was right.

He was, climbing that mountain was a pain in the ass lol

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HockeyMike24

I was wandering around the corner of the map earlier and noticed how strange the border of the map is in New Austin. Was this just how it was designed in RDR1? Seems weird to me to have all these looping roads that have nothing near them with NPC's traveling around in circles.

5ozsize.jpg

Just trying to understand the map design here... Nothing around yet so many roads and paths leading around in circles with just a small shack in the bottom right.

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Aye, it was like that in RDR1. It is a pretty strange part of the map, I can't remember if it was used much in RDR1.

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Officer Friendly
On 12/26/2019 at 12:34 AM, CrissRiot said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Nuevo is there, and that's huge for any Rockstar game as their maps are generally "here's the map, that's it" (aside from out of bounds stuff). GTAO's map? No unused map pieces (yes Yankton, but its the Guarma situation), no room for expansion (whereas Nuevo is RIGHT THERE), and there is clearly framework there (RDR1). You don't think they are KICKING themselves for not building a way to expand the physical map on GTAO?

 

Hopefully, it's something they've considered and see value in.

I just hope they add a remake of RDR1 into the existing game. If they want to create the longevity of GTAO they better start with bringing players back into SP, then rope them in with online stuff later.

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Has anyone made an extension of the map with the roads from Mexico in RDR for RDR2? It's hard to find a good map of RDR that isn't incredibly blurry and pixelated.

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Cutter De Blanc
1 hour ago, Jason said:

Aye, it was like that in RDR1. It is a pretty strange part of the map, I can't remember if it was used much in RDR1.

As I recall there was a treasure around there in RDR1

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silly_nate
2 hours ago, HockeyMike24 said:

I was wandering around the corner of the map earlier and noticed how strange the border of the map is in New Austin. Was this just how it was designed in RDR1? Seems weird to me to have all these looping roads that have nothing near them with NPC's traveling around in circles.

5ozsize.jpg

Just trying to understand the map design here... Nothing around yet so many roads and paths leading around in circles with just a small shack in the bottom right.

It was used in a race in Redemption 1. I cant remember if it was a horse race or wagon race though. I do agree though it is an odd place :whuh: I like to pretend there’s an extra road in there that leaves New Austin/Gaptooth Ridge and goes to the next state.

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Death2Drugs
2 hours ago, silly_nate said:

It was used in a race in Redemption 1. I cant remember if it was a horse race or wagon race though. I do agree though it is an odd place :whuh: I like to pretend there’s an extra road in there that leaves New Austin/Gaptooth Ridge and goes to the next state.

Well, yeah. It kind of reminds me of the old GTA 3 Liberty City which had that tunnel that really lead to nowhere, but you couldn't help but imagine what was "beyond". The map only stops there because the game devs wanted it to stop there.

 

Anyway according to the Red Dead Wiki: https://reddead.fandom.com/wiki/Sea_of_Coronado

 

So, in theory, there is a road which leads to some other area of RDR's USA. We just don't see it; it would be kinda weird though if RDR3 came out, took place in say 1879 and took place in the area west of the Coronado.

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CrissRiot
6 hours ago, Death2Drugs said:

Anyway according to the Red Dead Wiki: https://reddead.fandom.com/wiki/Sea_of_Coronado

Lol, that wiki. Gave them proof that the sheriff in "If the Hat Fits" is the same character as the Blackwater Sheriff in 1907 (they were seperate pages, but he is the same character named Oswald Dunbar). Merged the pages, wrote new text, gave them multiple bits of proof. They said I was wrong, undid my changes, yadda yadda. Basically, a "f*ck you, you dumbass".

 

Months later I casually check, and lo-and-behold, the pages are merged and he is deemed the same character. f*cking jokes lol.

Edited by CrissRiot
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Death2Drugs

Speaking of weird part of the map...

 

itHfdwR.png

 

I don't understand why Rockstar would go so far to make this lower corner of the map so detailed and gradually become visible even though you can't access it without a glitch. Funny enough this part of the map is not even part of Mexico's original borders in RDR2. The rest of Mexico doesn't appear like this.

 

If you go there this is what you see:

n958uvqzefg31.jpg

 

Is it just me or does this part of the map look like it was being worked on and they just gave up on it? You can ever hear seagulls in this area and fish will spawn. (pic is not mine btw)

 

Of all the secrets (Gavin, Zinmeister) this game holds, the Sea of Coronado is honestly the strangest, since it has no context (except that missionary letter which might be worth looking at again). It feels like Rockstar wanted to make a scaled down version of the Grand Canyon, put it in Mexico (kinda like how they put the Utah formations in Mexico), and then cut it because the game was getting too big.

 

Someone should check Punta Orgullo to see if any of this was in the original Red Dead...

Edited by Death2Drugs
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Duhillestpunk
3 minutes ago, Death2Drugs said:

Speaking of weird part of the map...

 

itHfdwR.png

 

I don't understand why Rockstar would go so far to make this lower corner of the map so detailed and gradually become visible even though you can't access it without a glitch. Funny enough this part of the map is not even part of Mexico's original borders in RDR2. The rest of Mexico doesn't appear like this.

 

If you go there this is what you see:

n958uvqzefg31.jpg

 

Is it just me or does this part of the map look like it was being worked on and they just gave up on it?

It honestly wouldn’t surprise if Rockstar gave up on working on the map. And agreed why make it all nice and purdy if we can’t go to it legally? Without a glitch?

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Mirror Park Resident

They included the other side of Sea of Coronado within borders because they can't stop us from crossing there, most likely. Both sides are too close.

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Death2Drugs
1 hour ago, Mirror Park Resident said:

They included the other side of Sea of Coronado within borders because they can't stop us from crossing there, most likely. Both sides are too close.

Actually at a certain point the game will just slide you back into the "American" side of the sea, and you will automatically sink if you try going to the "Mexican" side, if you try directly traveling from New Austin, I need to test it again but you definitely can't get to that part of Mexico without glitching there.

 

 

1 hour ago, Duhillestpunk said:

It honestly wouldn’t surprise if Rockstar gave up on working on the map. And agreed why make it all nice and purdy if we can’t go to it legally? Without a glitch?

 

Rockstar is pretty infamous for leaving in a lot of beta stuff and sometimes obviously. Occam's razor - they wanted to focus on the newer regions, and at some point all work on Mexico was stopped (I'm guessing 2013-2014 most likely) to focus on Lemoyne, New Hanover, and Ambarino.

 

The prevention is probably to make the game not feel "incomplete", to give the illusion the map is more complete than it actually is.

 

Edited by Death2Drugs
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CrissRiot
3 hours ago, Death2Drugs said:

The prevention is probably to make the game not feel "incomplete", to give the illusion the map is more complete than it actually is.

 

*cough*Tempest Rim*cough*

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I think whats very likely is that halfway through development they realized there was no real motive for the player to go to Nuevo Paraiso (hell theres no real motive for the player to go to New Austin either unless you're playing online) and just scrapped all plans, models and textures for it. With the exception of El Presidio. This can kinda be further proven by the leaked map back in 2016 that turned out to be legit. The entire Hennigans Stead/New Austin/Nuevo Paraiso is blocked out, which leads me to believe they might've even been considering scrapping Hennigans Stead and New Austin as well but most likely kept it due to the fact that they had already probably designed all of it and knew players would be pissed if you couldnt access it. Which also explains why that entire area feels like an afterthought in RDR 2 because it kinda is lol.

 

Anyway, as much as I want to believe the chance of a DLC in Mexico might be possible, I am very aware of how Rockstar now operates and if its not going to significantly financially benefit them in some way, they are not going to do it. But if RDR 2's online component keeps performing the way it is, and GTA Online starts to die down a little bit, the chances of a single player DLC in the New Austin region could be a little bit more likely....

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Death2Drugs
23 hours ago, UnknownDivision said:

I think whats very likely is that halfway through development they realized there was no real motive for the player to go to Nuevo Paraiso (hell theres no real motive for the player to go to New Austin either unless you're playing online) and just scrapped all plans, models and textures for it. With the exception of El Presidio. This can kinda be further proven by the leaked map back in 2016 that turned out to be legit. The entire Hennigans Stead/New Austin/Nuevo Paraiso is blocked out, which leads me to believe they might've even been considering scrapping Hennigans Stead and New Austin as well but most likely kept it due to the fact that they had already probably designed all of it and knew players would be pissed if you couldnt access it. Which also explains why that entire area feels like an afterthought in RDR 2 because it kinda is lol.

 

Anyway, as much as I want to believe the chance of a DLC in Mexico might be possible, I am very aware of how Rockstar now operates and if its not going to significantly financially benefit them in some way, they are not going to do it. But if RDR 2's online component keeps performing the way it is, and GTA Online starts to die down a little bit, the chances of a single player DLC in the New Austin region could be a little bit more likely....

I agree.

 

This may be a stretch, but I also think it's likely Rockstar just designed some out-of-map areas for the sake of convenience; I think it was mentioned somewhere that RDR was meant to be a trilogy, and it's heavily implied the van der Linde gang operated west of the Coronado. So, they probably put all these unfinished areas to be finished later for RDR3.

 

Makes you wonder.

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  • 3 months later...
Death2Drugs

Bumping this thread because there's new evidence and it's worth a look into this mystery again. This entire map was compiled by a Redditor who is credited in the image (NOT my work) and it is a full terrain map including outside areas.

 

qM8VtuE6mSQ2DS49I9jhIrD8o0gZ-HEIKrCpqWHpw5e5J5QItrf8CxeOJHweHBwJ0toiGd6CdWzLPs0kN9XdHiFOSEdT_acTDxzP68sHZt8hVQ8xB4m1P5tOnuKZQuUs9Mg21rBS9N461SWS_wcYdQ5e1k3dIY_Ej8ewkvk2krEWzHToKII8YePwlJ_qr1mEITEuG92JOETnyAUfWLDyfODe1OPhE4Nxi6tDnw8jH7tvfxw7-VhFJ1UIs0CSNJVJqppDPB8sW9zsukEgc1jCqYYMqMMaVU_slV0bqaHvXCh43j_sLeGbxsRtkHAtDFgaShkFBFMNnSGaZTEOhT7r68AyQUAkzswg4fNYtEkGd8H16JoxX5Up7ZqVaIA2uW4BYN9JtRJec-JewxzHnVl5cwkHFiCZgNZxS3mjZ1cciTlhJsRY__LTVYnHqRHfCDGD47XM_6S0cqwfPnY6iMZDMpkMNqfbuV-embvTYZUJ_jHiR3PSlHhsnhgivp9I2RYwVBH-r9M30xZktZ8YOmHt_N9aArkG5SPVhg_8CftrhWrOMCIE2zwk-39AtJYmxb9f5VaevASvAOixeIKTiVkwSqC88e3GuROz89BK3qcpg07v-IDkPSsuy4oBzWqnqjskqwhsixSYLjzdpI3Ce3Lh9HL0mThz2DK34lCtrsE6Nuh1rdSGVRxoTsr9YJqfzHVoIAYtlu70sltnKj4eqfeVtG98rH6jGUcnA9wP7BWg4TQWomZwQ5SAmg=w947-h943-no

 

This is very telling... it's pretty obvious that Nuevo Paraiso was being worked on and even has its own extended out of bound areas, which stretch far too long for an area that was supposedly never in the game... I also find it compelling that some other outside portions of the map look like they could have been in the game.

 

There was an infamous leak that came out after the game release, which included a lot of content, including the idea that Arthur was going to be a bisexual character, and graphic scenes of racism... which caused it to be disregarded... since then, some of the info in that leak has actually been corroborated (i.e. Guarma being visitable, significant story changes, etc.). There were some other map hints, including:

 

1. Mexico was going to be in the game

2. There was going to be an El Paso-based city on the very west of the map

3. There were going to be more areas of the US South, including some more white nationalist factions

4. There was going to be a Utah-based area with many Mormons... perhaps the outside areas of Ambarino, and the areas north of New Austin could be the last remnants of this, the geography lines up.

5. Southern California was going to be in the game, including San Diego and a coastline... the evidence for this is mostly scant sadly, so this area was likely removed very early if correct. However, it does appear that the Sea of Coronado borders some California-like area...

6. Texas? looks like it was moved to be south of Lemoyne

 

The mystery is allusive... but it looks like we have a better idea of what the geography in RDR's North America looks like...

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Tuskin38
50 minutes ago, Death2Drugs said:

This entire map was compiled by a Redditor who is credited in the image

They're also a user here:

 

Edited by Tuskin38
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thisisdagger

Mexico and Guarma as seperate expansions... A man can dream.

 

At the very least for Mexico I see a slight sliver of hope but Guarma is just too out there. Which is quite the shame since I love tropical settings and all that crunch work going into the area is probably pretty much wasted

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On 1/4/2020 at 4:31 PM, Death2Drugs said:

Speaking of weird part of the map...

 

itHfdwR.png

 

I don't understand why Rockstar would go so far to make this lower corner of the map so detailed and gradually become visible even though you can't access it without a glitch. Funny enough this part of the map is not even part of Mexico's original borders in RDR2. The rest of Mexico doesn't appear like this.

 

If you go there this is what you see:

n958uvqzefg31.jpg

 

Is it just me or does this part of the map look like it was being worked on and they just gave up on it? You can ever hear seagulls in this area and fish will spawn. (pic is not mine btw)

 

Of all the secrets (Gavin, Zinmeister) this game holds, the Sea of Coronado is honestly the strangest, since it has no context (except that missionary letter which might be worth looking at again). It feels like Rockstar wanted to make a scaled down version of the Grand Canyon, put it in Mexico (kinda like how they put the Utah formations in Mexico), and then cut it because the game was getting too big.

 

Someone should check Punta Orgullo to see if any of this was in the original Red Dead...

You could be right. I could also be "right" in proclaiming NP and surrounding areas were dumped about 60% of the way through the port, leaving only the LOD models and basic shader dictionaries. You can still find the ill-placed weather markers and sound trigger objects in their test places (those black and grey squares hidden usually under the map). You'll probably find things like the sound track trigger for NP in a few trigger locations, BM dictionaries, the WLS dictionaries and a few tucked away things that aren't really widely talked about yet. Pretty sure those are still in the game.

 

Also highly unlikely you'll see anything in single player releases in terms of NP but that doesn't necessarily mean NetOps won't bring the port to the multiplayer map.

 

I could also be right in saying things like the GTB actually mine completely exists and most of the stuff is in tact with primitive LOD texturing, but was dumped as well and simply closed off with a rock caving the rest of the mine in.

 

But what do I know. I'm just some lurker. 🤷‍♂️

Edited by SgtQ
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thisisdagger

The Sea of Coronado is indeed very curious...

It just pains me so much to think about workers at Rockstar being crunched into insanity and then in the end part of this fantastic work they did was all for nothing... just hidden away somewhere to be found by folks who looked really hard. At least we can appreciate it in some way.

I'd be pissed if I was working on that part of the map just to find out its worthless.

God I hope it will be eventually added even if just for online *shudders*

Edited by thisisdagger
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Death2Drugs
On 4/26/2020 at 10:12 AM, SgtQ said:

You could be right. I could also be "right" in proclaiming NP and surrounding areas were dumped about 60% of the way through the port, leaving only the LOD models and basic shader dictionaries. You can still find the ill-placed weather markers and sound trigger objects in their test places (those black and grey squares hidden usually under the map). You'll probably find things like the sound track trigger for NP in a few trigger locations, BM dictionaries, the WLS dictionaries and a few tucked away things that aren't really widely talked about yet. Pretty sure those are still in the game.

 

Also highly unlikely you'll see anything in single player releases in terms of NP but that doesn't necessarily mean NetOps won't bring the port to the multiplayer map.

 

I could also be right in saying things like the GTB actually mine completely exists and most of the stuff is in tact with primitive LOD texturing, but was dumped as well and simply closed off with a rock caving the rest of the mine in.

 

But what do I know. I'm just some lurker. 🤷‍♂️

Yes, as a matter of fact, much of the Mexico map does appear to even have working physics in some locations, but not so much in others (which allows the player to completely explore the solid LOD areas of the map, including the seemingly endless southern mountains). Weather patterns for the area are apparently distinct. Hell, it appears even some paths had survived; there were reports of peds spawning in Nuevo Paraiso (this was removed), and you'll even occasionally see birds fly into the area.

On 4/27/2020 at 1:52 PM, thisisdagger said:

The Sea of Coronado is indeed very curious...

It just pains me so much to think about workers at Rockstar being crunched into insanity and then in the end part of this fantastic work they did was all for nothing... just hidden away somewhere to be found by folks who looked really hard. At least we can appreciate it in some way.

I'd be pissed if I was working on that part of the map just to find out its worthless.

God I hope it will be eventually added even if just for online *shudders*

Red Dead Redemption 3 hopefully will have such areas, if that ever happens...

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Cutter De Blanc

Managed to get my horse to Guarma. Left horse on the mexico side of the river, then passed out on a cliff to glitch there, went over to the dock by El Presidio and whistled until the horse came. Then I went looking to get the horse out of the map. Didn't have to look far. A little ways west of Ojo Del Diablo is a sandy hill amidst the cliffs, which you can ride up, and because the area is incomplete,  they didn't put any sort of slip zone there. Rode up, and out of the map, and then off to Guarma. If you whistle for it when its there,  you'll get the "Your horse is not on the island" message, but your horse will continue to follow you. If you die, you respawn in Guarma without the horse. 

Edited by Cutter De Blanc
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