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Nuevo Paraiso Discovery - Datamining


VideoTech_

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Let's remember that to make New Austin and the RDR1 part of West Elizabeth, they very likely ported the map over first and enhanced/remastered the RDR1 assets (IIRC vegetation is even in the exact same spots as RDR1). It's very possible the Nuevo Paraiso stuff were leftovers from this port + remaster process, and given that we only had LOD's for Nuevo Paraiso that might be RDR1's LOD's... yeah, doesn't seem like they developed it much. Remember the Gaptooth Breach mine, the inaccessible part still has unfinished RDR1 assets IIRC. ;) 

 

I don't think there's any conspiracy or persecution here, deleting unused assets allows for size and even time savings in development with recompiling the map and how many things developers have to maintain.

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6 minutes ago, Spider-Vice said:

Let's remember that to make New Austin and the RDR1 part of West Elizabeth, they very likely ported the map over first and enhanced/remastered the RDR1 assets (IIRC vegetation is even in the exact same spots as RDR1). It's very possible the Nuevo Paraiso stuff were leftovers from this port + remaster process, and given that we only had LOD's for Nuevo Paraiso that might be RDR1's LOD's... yeah, doesn't seem like they developed it much. Remember the Gaptooth Breach mine, the inaccessible part still has unfinished RDR1 assets IIRC. ;) 

 

I don't think there's any conspiracy or persecution here, deleting unused assets allows for size and even time savings in development with recompiling the map and how many things developers have to maintain.

Yeah, I agree.

 

I think the possibility it was cut due to lack of development time, but some textures of the buildings were updated (Very small percentage), the artists definitely completed some work but hell that work could have been done many years ago lol. 

 

But hey, anything is possible for a DLC update for Red Dead Online and Single Player. (I hope) :)

 

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1 hour ago, Spider-Vice said:

I don't think there's any conspiracy or persecution here, deleting unused assets allows for size and even time savings in development with recompiling the map and how many things developers have to maintain.

by that logic they should immediately post a title update which strips the game of all unused files.

they've left a considerable amount of unused data inside of the game with a lot more detail than the RDR1 placeholder models. let's cut out all of the unused character models and their respective textures and sound bytes while we're at it.

 

it seems like they have a specific hard-on for killing the idea of an RDR1 recreation coming out of the modding community; the same community they used to embrace but now hate and take legal action against...

Edited by Awful Waffle
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8 hours ago, Awful Waffle said:

by that logic they should immediately post a title update which strips the game of all unused files.

they've left a considerable amount of unused data inside of the game with a lot more detail than the RDR1 placeholder models. let's cut out all of the unused character models and their respective textures and sound bytes while we're at it.

 

it seems like they have a specific hard-on for killing the idea of an RDR1 recreation coming out of the modding community; the same community they used to embrace but now hate and take legal action against...

Well, I think I agree with Spider-Vice.

It makes to sense to remove it if it has no use, and there's really no point keeping it since they're just SLOD models. However, when OpenIV supports the PC version I should be able to import them thanks to OpenFormats, but we'll see when the time comes. Then we can have a little look what's been changed and compare the SLOD's to the RDR1's ones, thanks to @Noru @DuPz0r on Discord that kindly provided some images for the buildings to compare the textures, the textures are slightly changed (windows and such) but that's a very small portion. Spider-Vice is definitely right about New Austin they probably used the old assets and remastered them from the ground up which is nice and saves a lot of time for mod devs in the community, it's a nice fan thing although not everything in New Austin is not finished it's a really nice addition to the game. 

 

Maybe there's more to this story but we'll find out when OpenIV supports the game, who knows what else is left. :) 

 

Another thing to add, the Armadillo Bank still remains in the game, so I wonder if they will use that at some point for a Red Dead Online Heist update or a potential remaster for the first game (probably not happening though).

Edited by VideoTech UK
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13 hours ago, Spider-Vice said:

Let's remember that to make New Austin and the RDR1 part of West Elizabeth, they very likely ported the map over first and enhanced/remastered the RDR1 assets (IIRC vegetation is even in the exact same spots as RDR1). It's very possible the Nuevo Paraiso stuff were leftovers from this port + remaster process, and given that we only had LOD's for Nuevo Paraiso that might be RDR1's LOD's... yeah, doesn't seem like they developed it much. Remember the Gaptooth Breach mine, the inaccessible part still has unfinished RDR1 assets IIRC. ;) 

 

I don't think there's any conspiracy or persecution here, deleting unused assets allows for size and even time savings in development with recompiling the map and how many things developers have to maintain.

To add to this, in West Elizabeth there are buildings marked on the map where there were some in RDR 1, but weren't in RDR 2. Everything that wasn't new in RDR 2 was definitely originally ported over and upgraded later. 

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1 hour ago, HOW'S ANNIE? said:

To add to this, in West Elizabeth there are buildings marked on the map where there were some in RDR 1, but weren't in RDR 2. Everything that wasn't new in RDR 2 was definitely originally ported over and upgraded later. 

Interesting.

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I still dont get why they just left El Presidio

 

It seems sloppy

 

Also the dock across the river from Brittlebrush Trawl,  why leave that?

Edited by Cutter De Blanc
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37 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

I still dont get why they just left El Presidio

 

It seems sloppy

 

Also the dock across the river from Brittlebrush Trawl,  why leave that?

Probably in-use for when looking at the map across the river. 

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I don't even know why we're allowed to cross over to the mexico shoreline from Manteca falls when they could just drown us like they do for the majority of the river

 

Like whats the point, it just allows us to glitch to mexico

Edited by Cutter De Blanc
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On 12/11/2019 at 12:00 PM, Cutter De Blanc said:

Rockstar just be like "f*ck you guys you dont get to make a mexico mod using our assets"

No, it's just them removing it to save space.

 

Not everything they do is malicious. Wow people.

Edited by Tuskin38
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Where I work we have a huge database which still includes masses of old records which have been imported from its old predecessor database, and even still a few records from the even older database before that one. None of these records link up with the current live sections so there’s no point in removing the legacy records. We could remove them, but that costs money in IT dept time. Not much money, admittedly, but it would still be a cost. We prefer to have IT working on current-use records that actually make money, rather than doing spring cleaning which is just a bit of money flushed down the drain.

 

Rockstar is a business. If it fails to make a profit then it will make no games. Its staff do proper jobs, their time costs money, there is only a set amount of time to do stuff, some things get prioritised, other things drop off the radar.

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On 12/12/2019 at 2:40 AM, VideoTech UK said:

Well, I think I agree with Spider-Vice.

it's all conjecture. I'm just going on the evidence.

since GTAV, Rockstar has conducted a steady campaign of silencing the modding community using a series of threatened lawsuits and realized legal action, it's not a secret...

 

you think their behavior is innocuous?

I disagree. most video game developers do no behave this way. Rockstar did not used to behave this way before the onset of GTAOnline and the prospect of millions of extra dollars in the form of pay-to-win (disguised as bypassing the grind).

 

if people mod your game and make their own fun and their own gameplay, they'll stop paying you for your sh!tty drip-fed-access to new content.

(for example) if people could've modded the game all this time, then we would've had the equivalent of Casino Heist years ago... among other things.

 

On 12/12/2019 at 3:31 PM, Tuskin38 said:

No, it's just them removing it to save space.

yeah... doesn't make sense.

there's plenty of extra content they could remove to "save space." why start by ripping out low-poly placeholders while leaving full-size models and textures intact?

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4 minutes ago, Awful Waffle said:

yeah... doesn't make sense.

there's plenty of extra content they could remove to "save space." why start by ripping out low-poly placeholders while leaving full-size models and textures intact?

I agree - the file only weighed at 865KB. 

 

5 minutes ago, Awful Waffle said:

it's all conjecture. I'm just going on the evidence.

since GTAV, Rockstar has conducted a steady campaign of silencing the modding community using a series of threatened lawsuits and realized legal action, it's not a secret...

 

you think their behavior is innocuous?

I disagree. most video game developers do no behave this way. Rockstar did not used to behave this way before the onset of GTAOnline and the prospect of millions of extra dollars in the form of pay-to-win (disguised as bypassing the grind).

 

I do yes. 

 

But usually cut content in many game titles is removed in later versions if present in most game titles. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

If it wasn't be used, then it was removed. You people are seeing boogey men where there isn't any.

That's exactly what the boogeymen want us to think.

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Regardless, Rockstar removing the low quality Meixco LoD's in the RDR2 files isn't going to hinder any possible Mexico mods at all, because again, something something Red Dead Redemption 1 files.

 

22 hours ago, Awful Waffle said:

if people mod your game and make their own fun and their own gameplay, they'll stop paying you for your sh!tty drip-fed-access to new content.

(for example) if people could've modded the game all this time, then we would've had the equivalent of Casino Heist years ago... among other things.

What are you smoking? There has been NOTHING stopping a modded "casino heist" for all this time. There are modded casino interiors pre-dating the GTAO casino update out there. The FiveM roleplay servers have probably had them around for a while too. Rockstar not adding something or removing something from the files does not stop people from modding anything, that's why it's called modding.

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

Regardless, Rockstar removing the low quality Meixco LoD's in the RDR2 files isn't going to hinder any possible Mexico mods at all, because again, something something Red Dead Redemption 1 files.

you're wrong, because every RDR1 map import we could have got was canceled because Take2/R* sued the modders.
using files from the same game and enhancing it with fan-made textures would be completely different.

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6 minutes ago, spoonman039 said:

you're wrong, because every RDR1 map import we could have got was canceled because Take2/R* sued the modders.
using files from the same game and enhancing it with fan-made textures would be completely different.

Yes, full blown map ports get shut down, but I'm not suggesting that. There are also loads of IV ports (weapons, cars, interiors, etc) modded into GTA V, some even being used in servers that are watched by hundreds of thousands on Twitch. We're also assuming now that the RDR2 Mexico LoD's have vanished from existence, which is likely not the case.

 

No more work has to be done now that they've removed the LoD's than there would have to be done from before they removed the LoD's. RDR2 even having those LoD's in the first place didn't lessen the work load at all.

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guess we'll just agree to disagree, kids.

you can think Rockstar [nearly a billion dollar corporation who brings lawsuits against modders] is innocent and naive. that's your judgement call, not mine.

 

1 hour ago, Tuskin38 said:

If it wasn't be used, then it was removed. You people are seeing boogey men where there isn't any.

yeah... this still doesn't make any sense. you haven't actually answered it yet so I'll just repeat myself.

there's plenty of extra content they could remove to "save space" which takes up a lot more data than these Mexican leftovers. why start by ripping out low-poly placeholders while leaving full-size models and textures intact?

 

riddle me that, joker.

Edited by Awful Waffle
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It's so strange to me how weird Rockstar has become with map ports.

 

Liberty City for V got shut down (which would have been amazing, and likely the quality of an official port).

Red Dead for V got shut down as well (probably the first step in ever having RDR1 on PC).

 

Yet here on these same forums we have multiple map ports to and from GTA III, VC, and SA. A total conversion of III into VC's engine. A mostly completed total conversion of a game that was never even released on PC, in SA--and they don't bat an eye.

 

Still don't know what's stopping the OpenIV guys from making false accounts/anonymously releasing their Liberty City to V porting tool, but whatever.

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15 hours ago, Jason said:

Regardless, Rockstar removing the low quality Meixco LoD's in the RDR2 files isn't going to hinder any possible Mexico mods at all, because again, something something Red Dead Redemption 1 files.

Huh? Perhaps the SLOD's are leftovers from the first Red Dead Redemption game but "nvo_01.rpf" was left in "levels/RDR3/Terrain/VWXY_03_06/" in the Red Dead Redemption 2 files. But I can understand why it was removed, most game developers often remove cut content in later versions of games. 

 

I have really put in a lot of time to research this. I would absolutely never misinform people and ensured a disclaimer was in place that makes sure nothing is confirmed and pure findings from the game files. But I am really trying my best to do everything I can to make sure I can make you happy and ensure the thread stays healthy as possible.     

 

 

Edited by VideoTech UK
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1 hour ago, VideoTech UK said:

Huh? Perhaps the SLOD's are leftovers from the first Red Dead Redemption game but "nvo_01.rpf" was left in "levels/RDR3/Terrain/VWXY_03_06/" in the Red Dead Redemption 2 files. But I can understand why it was removed, most game developers often remove cut content in later versions of games. 

 

I have really put in a lot of time to research this. I would absolutely never misinform people and ensured a disclaimer was in place that makes sure nothing is confirmed and pure findings from the game files. But I am really trying my best to do everything I can to make sure I can make you happy and ensure the thread stays healthy as possible.     

You're missing the point, the RDR1 files are out there on PC, if  you wanted to mod Mexico into RDR2 you have all the files you need right there.

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

You're missing the point, the RDR1 files are out there on PC, if  you wanted to mod Mexico into RDR2 you have all the files you need right there.

Oh, okay. I see.

I understand now, sorry about that. 

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