Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. PC
      2. Gameplay
      3. Missions
      4. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Gameplay
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
      4. Frontier Pursuits
    1. Crews & Posses

      1. Recruitment
    2. Events

    1. GTA Online

      1. DLC
      2. Find Lobbies & Players
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Vehicles
      5. Content Creator
      6. Help & Support
      7. The Diamond Casino Heist
    2. Grand Theft Auto Series

    3. GTA 6

    4. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    5. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA IV Mods
    6. GTA Chinatown Wars

    7. GTA Vice City Stories

    8. GTA Liberty City Stories

    9. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA SA Mods
    10. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA VC Mods
    11. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA III Mods
    12. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    13. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption

    2. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. News

    2. Forum Support

    3. Site Suggestions

BoulderFaceplant

Was Agent Milton being honest when he tried to strike a deal?

Recommended Posts

BoulderFaceplant

After the Braithwaite fiasco, Agent Milton stops by with an offer to Dutch’s Gang: turn in Dutch, and all of the gang will be quietly pardoned so long as they assimilate into legal society. 

 

As we know, not one member of the gang even considers this. But it made me wonder, was Milton being genuine here? Probably not, if the governments actions in RDR1 are anything to go by, but I have to admit, I think this works better for the story if Milton was being honest. It adds to the tragedy that the whole gang, sans Dutch, would’ve gotten a second chance in the world if only they’d seen through Dutch’s manipulation. This is also a great moment to show Dutch’s dishonesty. He says he would give his life to save any member of the gang; well here’s an opportunity to save the ENTIRE gang - including a young child - and he scoffs, flaunting the gang’s loyalty in Milton’s face like a personal trophy. He doesn’t even stop for a moment to hold a vote. 

 

I know that most logic points to the contrary, but I like to imagine the gang genuinely threw away a golden, nigh-miraculous opportunity. That they - and Dutch in particular - saw the correct choice and turned away from it. 

Edited by BoulderFaceplant
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Miko19

Milton seemed like a less underhanded individual than Ross, but we didn't interact with him enough to actually see it. The Pinkertons being a bit underdeveloped is probably my biggest gripe with the game's story :c

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
UpTheDowngrade

Great post. I believe we're meant to take Milton's offer at face value there.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jje1000

Personally I think Milton was under-defined as a character, which was a shame.

 

Not much to read off of him beyond his few appearances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
~INDIO~

I too think we should have definitely seen more of him. I was also displeased at the way he left the story.

I reckon he was a lot worse than what we saw though.. Ross learned from him.

 

Massive potential for that character that was just left behind. He could've been used for a really interesting DLC storyline to go alongside the main plot.

Edited by ~INDIO~
.
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rammer2k

Really depends on how long Micah was in his pocket for?  I don't believe he was just "caught" after Guarma, and started ratting out the gang.  I think it goes all the way to Blackwater.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mysterious hero
12 minutes ago, Rammer2k said:

Really depends on how long Micah was in his pocket for?  I don't believe he was just "caught" after Guarma, and started ratting out the gang.  I think it goes all the way to Blackwater.

While it's highly likely that Micah was the rat the whole time, he wasn't directly working with the Pinkerton's until after Guarma. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Auditore

Honestly i think he wasn't lying.Milton is pragmatic(well he was before the saint denis heist,after that he went scorched earth mode on the gang).

Both Ross and Milton manipulate but Milton has a more diplomatic approach,he talks and prefers a verbal solution before taking his guns out.

Milton only goes after dutch with guns when he runs out of peaceful options which is his main character flaw,he even dies because he wastes time talking instead of shooting.If it was Ross in the lead Dutch wouldn't make past Rhoades.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BoulderFaceplant
7 hours ago, Auditore said:

Honestly i think he wasn't lying.Milton is pragmatic(well he was before the saint denis heist,after that he went scorched earth mode on the gang).

Both Ross and Milton manipulate but Milton has a more diplomatic approach,he talks and prefers a verbal solution before taking his guns out.

Milton only goes after dutch with guns when he runs out of peaceful options which is his main character flaw,he even dies because he wastes time talking instead of shooting.If it was Ross in the lead Dutch wouldn't make past Rhoades.

 

Good point. In fact, even as far back as the cutscene when they’re introduced, Milton is the more even-headed one. Ross is the guy who taunts a little boy. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Auditore
9 hours ago, BoulderFaceplant said:

Good point. In fact, even as far back as the cutscene when they’re introduced, Milton is the more even-headed one. Ross is the guy who taunts a little boy. 

Yes he tries to destroy the gang using the members as spies,he actually suceeds with micah but he went to Arthur first.

Milton likes the sound of his own voice and hes a bit delusional kinda like Dutch,Ross saw that and realized that talking to criminals is a waste of time

I dont think milton was underdeveloped he's there just enough to make a impression.If he appeared more it would make no sense why he didnt arrest or kill Dutch,the events in the game make sense.

-Milton goes after Dutch after Cornwall hires the pinkertons services.

-Milton knows Dutch is close to Valentine and finds Arthur fishing

-Failing to convince Arthur Milton tries to find the gang hideout but everyone already left

-After so much recent chaos in the small town of rhoades Milton goes there thinking it has something to do with Dutch,he finds the gang and makes them a final peaceful offer

-After seeing the gang is loyal to dutch Milton goes violent 

-Milton is lucky that micah is part of the gang,Micah is now the spy Milton was looking for.

 

A import reminder that if the O Driscolls robbed the cornwall train they would be hunted by milton not Dutch.

Dutch effed up when he screwed up with a big company.

Edited by Auditore
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
crazedZ10

They wanted us to hate Milton but honestly he's just a guy trying to bring a group of psychopaths to justice. Yeah Arthur, Dutch and all are psychopaths. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alexlecj

"It's over. No more bargains. No more deals."

"I've given you enough chances..."

"You fools weren't listening to me, were you? I showed mercy... You mistook it for weakness."

"We offered you a deal, Mr. Morgan... you should have taken it."

 

I think he was being honest, since every time he engages us in a gunfight, he refers to the various deals he offered.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cutter De Blanc

I believe Milton was being honest when he offered the gang a deal, and the narrative gives me no reason to think otherwise. 

 

I wonder what would have happened if the gang had killed Milton and Ross at Clemens Cove

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BobbyThreeSticks

Here's my attempt at a rational, over-analyzed take on the situation.

 

Mr. Milton gives me the impression of being sincere when he offers this deal, sort of. I'll get back to why I say sort of in a minute. 

Mr. Milton strikes me as a pragmatist., an "the ends justify the means" kind of operative. I think he is allowed to operate in this way because the Pinkertons is a private agency that is hired by the government, instead of being an arm of the government itself. It is also worth noting that Mr. Milton seems to genuinely disapprove of the gangs ways (living outside of society). I think this philosophy is also why he gives the gang so many chances (way more than warranted, if you ask me) before dropping that approach all together. 

 

Now I said sort of before. When the offer of clemency is extended to the gang immediately after what is essentially the destruction of the Braithwaite family, the activities of the gang has (once again) affected the public more directly. The Braithwaites were arguably the second largest employer in the region with their vast farming operations, and their deaths probably caused a lot of people to become unemployed. The optics of their plantation home burning down could also be argued to have a negative impact on the local population, striking fear into people and giving the impression of crime being out of control. It is reasonable to assume that these actions greatly increase the pressure on Mr. Milton and his team basically overnight, leading to this deal being offered just to stop the violence, if only for a short while. It could be argued that imprisoning the leader of the gang would severely weaken their morale (at this point in the story, they all still look at Dutch like he's the second coming of Jesus), and thus their operations. With this in mind, I'd say it was a genuine offer. 

 

However Mr. Milton is not a naive, and neither is the agency nor the government. After the imprisonment and execution of Dutch, they would have probably hunted the remainder of the gang down. This would not be unwarranted as they have broken a lot of laws themselves, and the risk of a re-grouping or them taking up gangs of their own (Williamson gang in RDR, Micah's operations in the Epilouge for example) would have had to be considered risks too great to ignore. 

 

So with all that in mind, the deal was probably sincere at the time. But I see no way that they would just forget about the gang and let them be on their way forever.

 

Edited by BobbyThreeSticks
Format
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Johnnyb17

Comparing Milton and Ross isn’t useful. Like many have mentioned Milton is somewhat reasonable if a little too egotistical  

 

Ross on the other hand was a straight up Sociopath type

 

they showed the difference even in RDR 2 with his pithy comment to Jack 

“ enjoy your fishing kid” 

 

I feel Milton wouldn’t taunt a child like that bit more of the professional type. 

 

 

Edited by Johnnyb17
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheHouser

Don't think so. He's always been a no good inbred hick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GinsengElixir

When did Cornwall hire the Pinkertons? It had to be after Blackwater because they had Davey(or Mac, whomever the hell it was) and interrogated him after he was caught during the heist. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Auditore
On 12/9/2019 at 11:31 AM, Johnnyb17 said:

Comparing Milton and Ross isn’t useful. Like many have mentioned Milton is somewhat reasonable if a little too egotistical  

 

Ross on the other hand was a straight up Sociopath type

 

they showed the difference even in RDR 2 with his pithy comment to Jack 

“ enjoy your fishing kid” 

 

I feel Milton wouldn’t taunt a child like that bit more of the professional type. 

 

 

TDLR

Milton is a pragmatic "strong arm" cop.

Ross is a ruthless sociopath.

There's a parallel of Ross and outlaws mostly in RDR 1,in some ways ross and dutch(1911) are a bit similar,they are blind to their own ideals,step on everyone that is on their way and lack self awareness.Dutch at least realized who he was before death,Ross still lacked self awareness.

The point is that Ross is almost as crazy as the criminals he chases but he works for the law so he is ruthless to the "right people".

Dutch isnt even hunted because hes a danger,he is hunted by the law because a politician aims to use the death of outlaws to win the election.

I love the use of politics in RDR with Edgar Ross,it gives the character way more depth even if he isnt on the screen for a lot of time.

Edited by Auditore
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alexlecj
9 hours ago, GinsengElixir said:

When did Cornwall hire the Pinkertons? It had to be after Blackwater because they had Davey(or Mac, whomever the hell it was) and interrogated him after he was caught during the heist. 

 

 

He hired them after the train robbery in the Grizzlies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Copcaller
Posted (edited)

Personally I think Milton was being honest with the deal they wanted Dutch anyone else would be a bonus but ultimately not as important as Dutch they realized that hosesa is old and sick and if you capture Dutch you've severed the head of the gang.

Edited by Copcaller

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • 2 Users Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 2 Guests

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.