Why is RDO (& all R* games) aimed at Younger Gamers?

[Assblaster]

What I originally wanted Red Dead Online to be, was a genuine Wild West simulation. All the real models of guns with their actual names; actual prices and wages from the era, as well as era-correct clothing and colors. What we got was a kids' Saturday Morning Cartoon version of life in the Wild West. We have "ability cards" that magically help to either (a) protect you from damage in various ways, or (b) cause additional magical damage to enemies. They sped up the movement and firing speed for the online version of the game months after it was working just fine, and removed various animations in the process; and this resulted in an even more kid-friendly, cartoonish game. And I don't even want to get started on all the goofy colors and pimp-hats, none of which existed (except for ladies) back then. Men caught wearing that sh*t would've been tarred and feathered, then run outta town on a rail.

 

Why is this though? I was raised in the '60s and '70s, so I'm in that first generation of video gamers. The games were crude but I loved them; and as they got better I loved 'em more and more. When I bought my first 3DO in the early '90s, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. Now they've gotten to be near-simulations rather than the silly games I played as a kid, they're so much better in every way. So yes, I love video games, and don't hold back when it comes to buying them.

 

So why do adults get less consideration by the developers of these games? Surely I'm not an exception to the rule: kids who grew up loving video games aren't likely to stop loving them just because their hair gets grey! And unlike kids, they always have cash to spend.

 

I wish more than anything for more realism in games like this. And I think the pvp would be a helluva lot more fun if it were that way. Combat would require more care and strategy than this zany lightning-fast pew pew pew tonic chugging mess of boring invincibility. 

 

Surely I'm not in the minority in my wish for more of a Wild West sim and less of a looney toon adventure? or maybe I am.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Assblaster

[Ghoffman9]

44 minutes ago, Assblaster said:

What I originally wanted Red Dead Online to be, was a genuine Wild West simulation. All the real models of guns with their actual names; actual prices and wages from the era, as well as era-correct clothing and colors. What we got was a kids' Saturday Morning Cartoon version of life in the Wild West. We have "ability cards" that magically help to either (a) protect you from damage in various ways, or (b) cause additional magical damage to enemies. They sped up the movement and firing speed for the online version of the game months after it was working just fine, and removed various animations in the process; and this resulted in an even more kid-friendly, cartoonish game. And I don't even want to get started on all the goofy colors and pimp-hats, none of which existed (except for ladies) back then. Men caught wearing that sh*t would've been tarred and feathered, then run outta town on a rail.

 

Why is this though? I was raised in the '60s and '70s, so video games were born in my lifetime. They were crude but I loved them; and as they got better I loved 'em more and more. When I bought my first 3DO in the early '90s, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. Now they've gotten to be near-simulations rather than the silly games I played as a kid, they're so much better in every way. So yes, I love video games, and don't hold back when it comes to buying them.

 

So why do adults get less consideration by the developers of these games? Surely I'm not an exception to the rule: kids who grew up loving video games aren't likely to stop loving them just because their hair gets grey! And unlike kids, they always have cash to spend.

 

I wish more than anything for more realism in games like this. And I think the pvp would be a helluva lot more fun if it were that way. Combat would require more care and strategy than this zany lightning-fast pew pew pew tonic chugging mess of boring invincibility. 

 

Surely I'm not in the minority in my wish for more of a Wild West sim and less of a looney toon adventure? or maybe I am.

I wouldn't say its designed for kids but more designed around a micro-transaction system. They increased the speed of guns so that headshots were not an absolute must in PvP. Before the guns were so slow it was either headshot or bust. The amount of time it took to kill an enemy via bodyshots was much longer than it did to flick up and pull the trigger. Rockstar wanted to change that and make bodyshot more viable, they wanted to reduce the TTK via bodyshots. The ability cards were something I believe they came up with because they were running out of ideas for things to put in the game that they can charge players for. Before the latest update there was clothes, guns, and horses. That was pretty much it, which is why I think they included them.

 

Don't get me wrong though, I think they were a bad inclusion, it introduced a rock paper scissors element to the gameplay that should not be there. Secondly they made the mistake of making headshots one hit kill. Headshots should have only done increased damage, thus addressing the headshot problem. They would not need to speed up the guns if headshots cannot one shot.

[Jason]

Nothing of what you said is designed for kids.

 

Ability cards are a very simple and poorly thought out version of an RPG style passive skill tree. These types of systems have been around for a long, long time and have nothing to do with kids, it's just a (again, poorly designed) system designed to create a variety of play styles within the games PvE and PvP.

 

Fast gameplay also has zero to do with kids in any shape or form. The fastest shooting games out there aren't enjoyed primarily by kids, neither are the slowest games out there. The age demographic has nothing to do with the pace of the game.

 

As for bright coloured cosmetics, also nothing do with kids. They are bought by adults just as much as they are younger players. Go check out an MMORPG cash shop, games primarily played by adults, they are packed with bright, fancy cosmetics. People want to stand out from the crowd, so they buy cosmetics that help them do that and they've been doing it since day 1 of Red Dead Online with things like all white outfits.

[CosmicBuffalo]

The speed of the game was increased to get younger more gullible players to spend money on buying and playing the game thus getting more microtransaction purchases.  The online has to compete with COD, and GTAO quite frankly, and all other types of games that literally exploit ADHD and complusive personality traits.  This was summed up pretty accurately by South Park's episode about Cannadough. 

 

R* is not even close to the worst offender, but all of the recent gameplay changes and the cards were put in the game to encourage microtransactions by having people constantly playing the game. 

 

I heard a stat that the average youtube video is viewed for less than 30s.  The slow boil of story mode in any entertainment form although profitable if done right is not going to get the biggest bang for your buck.  If youre spending alot of time on something to make it detailed, it may sell great, but your actual profit will not be as high because all that detail translates into hours, wages, taxes employees...where as minecraft or some soccer rehash takes less effort  and may not sell as well...the profit is better because the cost is substanitally lower.

[Don Maximus Meridius]

Is just less realistic, not for kids, and not necessarily something realistic is more fun. Also you can pick prostitutes + use drugs in GTAO and limb amputations in RDO, I don't think this was designed for kids.

[Assblaster]

25 minutes ago, Don Maximus Meridius said:

Is just less realistic, not for kids, and not necessarily something realistic is more fun. Also you can pick prostitutes + use drugs in GTAO and limb amputations in RDO, I don't think this was designed for kids.

Well I disagree with the idea that more realism equals less fun. It just depends on the degree to which you do it. Overdoing it can be a chore to play, I realize. But more realism makes for more immersion, whether it's a racing game, hunting game, whatever have you.

 

As for GTA, I wasn't referring to those elements of the game (prostitutes and drugs) when I wrote "aimed at kids". Ridiculous stuff like flying cars and rocket-bikes that blow sh*t up...I think kids like that stuff more than adults do, but I could be wrong.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Assblaster

[Don Maximus Meridius]

8 minutes ago, Assblaster said:

Well I disagree with the idea that more realism equals less fun. It just depends on the degree to which you do it. Overdoing it can be a chore to play, I realize. But more realism makes for more immersion, whether it's a racing game, hunting game, whatever have you.

Its not what I said: realism is not required for fun, although some realistic games are very fun. I really like the way RDO was, but I understand when people complained about the animations (looting, skinning) slowing the pace, and R*... well, they had to make a choice, can't please everyone.

[Don Maximus Meridius]

22 minutes ago, Assblaster said:

Ridiculous stuff like flying cars and rocket-bikes that blow sh*t up...I think kids like that stuff more than adults do, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, I agree. GTA needs much more realism, I would like to see things like limited slots to carry guns & ammo (making big car trunks useful), stronger death penalties and absolutely no flying cars or motorcycles in GTA 6.

[Gray-Hand]

1 hour ago, Ghoffman9 said:

...

The ability cards were something I believe they came up with because they were running out of ideas for things to put in the game that they can charge players for. Before the latest update there was clothes, guns, and horses. That was pretty much it, which is why I think they included them.

 

Don't get me wrong though, I think they were a bad inclusion, it introduced a rock paper scissors element to the gameplay that should not be there. 

...

Ability cards cost ingame dollars and experience.  You cannot purchase them with gold.  The only way to get the best ability cards maxed out is to play the game for many, many hours.  There is no shortcut.

 

The ability card system is the opposite of pay to win.

[Ghoffman9]

8 minutes ago, Gray-Hand said:

Ability cards cost ingame dollars and experience.  You cannot purchase them with gold.  The only way to get the best ability cards maxed out is to play the game for many, many hours.  There is no shortcut.

 

The ability card system is the opposite of pay to win.

Thats not what I meant. Why do you think I brought up the clothes, guns, and horses? My point was that there was hardly anything there for players to even buy, thus they tossed this card system in and charged large amounts of money for these cards as one additional thing to work towards. To keep players interested they need things to strive for and there was not much of anything for them to work towards. Once they get their preferred guns, clothes they like, and the horse they wanted, they're pretty much all set. They got all they could want with nothing else to work towards.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Ghoffman9

[Gray-Hand]

1 minute ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Thats not what I meant. Why do you think I brought up the clothes, guns, and horses? My point was that there was hardly anything there for players to even buy, thus they tossed this card system in and charged large amounts of money for these cards.

Ah - my mistake.  I agree with you, in that they are probably designed as a money sink.

 

Having said that, I don’t mind the idea of ability cards, even if the execution could have been better.

[Gleeman Vox]

sped up movement speed was needed for non first-person players and people that played PVP & showdown, it has nothing to do with kids.

 

ability cards might not be the best but it's the only thing that makes the combat not so god damn bare-bones basic rockstar* style combat.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Gleeman Vox

[Assblaster]

7 minutes ago, Gleeman Vox said:

sped up movement speed was needed for non first-person players and people that played PVP & showdown, it has nothing to do with kids.

I wouldn't agree that it was needed. I for one had more fun in combat before the movement speed was implemented. It was more like you were in a western. It felt more real to me. Now it does feel more like Fortnite, which is why I thought the change was directed toward winning over kids.

[Labovasha]

That new movement system barley fixes the issues anyways. The interactions are sped up but it still has long pauses where the controls are locked down after performing certain actions. The biggest change I see is character run around like cartoons when they are shooting. 

 

I know that feeling but I do not think It's necessary an age demographic. It's some accessibility and an easily exploitable market. 

Back then people who played video games were a very small percentage of the population but now just about everyone plays video games.

Now you don't just have enthusiast, it's consumers and game design trends.

 

I honestly think rdo would have done just fine without all the pew pew nonsense. The ability cards were not a bad concept perse. They were somewhat on to something with the cards such as quite an inspiration which could of been implemented as a specialization that required gear and made use of the crafting system. Would of went hand in hand with a RPG style toxicity effect for people who abused tonics.

Slow and steady would be ok as equitable gear like armor that had effects on horse, stamina, movement speeds,  and works with the weather system.

 

[ALifeOfMisery]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

People want to stand out from the crowd, so they buy cosmetics that help them do that and they've been doing it since day 1 of Red Dead Online with things like all white outfits.

You're absolutely correct, but the irony of these players attempting to stand out when all they achieve is looking just like the droves of all white/black/shirtless hillbilly etc. dressed characters always gives me a laugh.

 

I do wonder how they feel when, as I've witnessed many times, they join a story mission and are met by someone else's character which is almost a carbon copy of what they thought was their original, stand out, character.

[CMCSAVAGE]

7 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

The ability cards were something I believe they came up with because they were running out of ideas for things to put in the game that they can charge players for. Before the latest update there was clothes, guns, and horses. That was pretty much it, which is why I think they included them.

Ability cards were there since day one. 

[RyuNova]

I am used to the movement speed changes now but I still dislike them.

[B Dawg]

(& all R* games)

 

I guess you haven't played the multiplayer of GTA IV and the 1st Redemption. Those were multiplayer components that R* actually did right.

Edited November 25, 2019 by B Dawg

[Ghoffman9]

4 hours ago, CMCSAVAGE said:

Ability cards were there since day one. 

Yeah, which was why I was talking in the past tense. I was talking about way back when they were making RDO and coming up with things to put into the game that players can buy.

[1898]

As long as the same people responsible for GTA online are involved, it's unlikely we'll see anything geared toward adults. I'd bet 99% of their western comprehension is probably from Back to the Future (doubt me? they brought a Delorian to the first reveal). Are they even interested in realism, read any related material or have or even know someone who has fired a pistol. Doesn't matter anyway, that's not what sells.

 

 

16 hours ago, Don Maximus Meridius said:

Is just less realistic, not for kids, and not necessarily something realistic is more fun. Also you can pick prostitutes + use drugs in GTAO and limb amputations in RDO, I don't think this was designed for kids.

You're right it shouldn't be designed for kids but they know their audience well. Yeah, they can slap warnings on the box and trailers but kids and pre teens are gonna eat that stuff up and R* knows it.

Edited November 25, 2019 by 1898

[Failed Again]

16 hours ago, Jason said:

Nothing of what you said is designed for kids.

 

Ability cards are a very simple and poorly thought out version of an RPG style passive skill tree. These types of systems have been around for a long, long time and have nothing to do with kids, it's just a (again, poorly designed) system designed to create a variety of play styles within the games PvE and PvP.

 

Fast gameplay also has zero to do with kids in any shape or form. The fastest shooting games out there aren't enjoyed primarily by kids, neither are the slowest games out there. The age demographic has nothing to do with the pace of the game.

 

As for bright coloured cosmetics, also nothing do with kids. They are bought by adults just as much as they are younger players. Go check out an MMORPG cash shop, games primarily played by adults, they are packed with bright, fancy cosmetics. People want to stand out from the crowd, so they buy cosmetics that help them do that and they've been doing it since day 1 of Red Dead Online with things like all white outfits.

Surely your Kidding

[rusbeckia]

17 hours ago, Assblaster said:

What I originally wanted Red Dead Online to be, was a genuine Wild West simulation. All the real models of guns with their actual names; actual prices and wages from the era, as well as era-correct clothing and colors. What we got was a kids' Saturday Morning Cartoon version of life in the Wild West. We have "ability cards" that magically help to either (a) protect you from damage in various ways, or (b) cause additional magical damage to enemies. They sped up the movement and firing speed for the online version of the game months after it was working just fine, and removed various animations in the process; and this resulted in an even more kid-friendly, cartoonish game. And I don't even want to get started on all the goofy colors and pimp-hats, none of which existed (except for ladies) back then. Men caught wearing that sh*t would've been tarred and feathered, then run outta town on a rail.

 

Why is this though? I was raised in the '60s and '70s, so I'm in that first generation of video gamers. The games were crude but I loved them; and as they got better I loved 'em more and more. When I bought my first 3DO in the early '90s, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. Now they've gotten to be near-simulations rather than the silly games I played as a kid, they're so much better in every way. So yes, I love video games, and don't hold back when it comes to buying them.

 

So why do adults get less consideration by the developers of these games? Surely I'm not an exception to the rule: kids who grew up loving video games aren't likely to stop loving them just because their hair gets grey! And unlike kids, they always have cash to spend.

 

I wish more than anything for more realism in games like this. And I think the pvp would be a helluva lot more fun if it were that way. Combat would require more care and strategy than this zany lightning-fast pew pew pew tonic chugging mess of boring invincibility. 

 

Surely I'm not in the minority in my wish for more of a Wild West sim and less of a looney toon adventure? or maybe I am.

Ok, boomer.

[Jason]

1 minute ago, Failed Again said:

Surely your Kidding

What have I got to be kidding about?

 

Everything OP named as being aimed at kids is also done in games aimed at and predominately played by adults.

 

Pace of the game has zero to do with kids, there's fast paced and slow paced games aimed at all demographics. Bright, colourful cosmetics are also the best sellers in games with adult playerbases. Ability cards are a poor effort of a passive skill system designed to create build variety and are also unrelated to kids.

 

None of this has anything to do with kids AT ALL. The changes they've made and content they've added are all things that they believe will make them the most money and despite what people think, mtx in games aren't exclusively bought by children. All of the popular mtx driven games (Fortnite, Fifa, Overwatch, etc) have massive whales that will buy up everything and everything the moment it comes out. New Fifa Ultimate Team card drops are followed by people who drop 4-5 figure sums on mtx the same day, GTA Online updates will have people who buy 1-10x Great White Shark Cards so they can buy all the new stuff, Fortnite players who own literally every skin and emote that's ever been sold, etc. These are adults doing this, not kids. Whales of course aren't exclusively the only people who buy mtx either and yea sure kids do spend money on mtx but whales are just as big if not more. In smaller games the whales are basically what keep the game alive in many cases.

[Assblaster]

Fortnite player distribution in the U.S. 2018, by age group

The Battle Royale game, in which up to 100 players fight it out at one time, is especially loved amongst the younger generations as 62.7 percent of Fortnite players are aged between 18 and 24, and a further 22.5 percent are between 25 and 34.

-www.statista.com › statistics › fortnite-players-age

 

So the majority of players in Fortnite are very young (18-24), another big chunk are still fairly young (25-34), leaving only 15% or so of the playerbase for ages older than that. This kind of game, with its wild cosmetics, skins, fast/physic-defying movement, etc. appeals more to younger gamers.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Assblaster

[gtmike]

So now "kids" are people age 18-34, and you're mad because the game caters to them?? 18-34?? Do you even hear yourself right now? Someone needs to close this troll thread.

[Assblaster]

18 minutes ago, gtmike said:

So now "kids" are people age 18-34, and you're mad because the game caters to them?? 18-34?? Do you even hear yourself right now? Someone needs to close this troll thread.

Younger gamers are the ones R* was catering to with things like the oppressor and space ranger guns in GTA. Mature gamers tend to dislike sh*t like that. RDO also has elements catering to the younger crowd, mostly. Am I "mad" about that? Where did I write that I was angry? This isn't a bitch & moan; I was simply wondering if others felt that this game might be sliding more and more into sillyville. 

 

Thanks for that armchair moderating though. 

 

BTW sorry for writing "kids", I changed it to "younger gamers" in the title. I didn't mean any insult, I'm referring mainly to millennials, but I'm not into stereotyping people, I realize plenty of young people are mature and plenty of older people are immature.

 

Geez what a mess I got myself into lol. Last thread I make lmao!

Edited November 25, 2019 by Assblaster

[gtmike]

18 hours ago, Assblaster said:

So why do adults get less consideration by the developers of these games? Surely I'm not an exception to the rule: kids who grew up loving video games aren't likely to stop loving them just because their hair gets grey! And unlike kids, they always have cash to

This what you asked. So now people aged 18-34 aren't adults? You make no sense. If you're shocked that companies are aiming their product at 18-34 year olds, really not sure what to tell you...

 

If RedM becomes anything like FiveM, you'll be able to make your own server based on the single player game, with your own rules. So my advice is stop whining and hold out for that.

[Assblaster]

2 minutes ago, gtmike said:

This what you asked. So now people aged 18-34 aren't adults? You make no sense. If you're shocked that companies are aiming their product at 18-34 year olds, really not sure what to tell you...

 

If RedM becomes anything like FiveM, you'll be able to make your own server based on the single player game, with your own rules. So my advice is stop whining and hold out for that.

I never said that at all. And I'm not whining geez what's wrong with you bud? That age range is a smaller percentage of players in Fortnite, the larger percentage quoted was younger than that, i.e. "kids". 

[Rokushakubo]

Can't agree with anything in the OP. An 'immersion slaying' pink jacket is not an indication that RDO is catering to younger gamers but rather allowing each gamer more options to express themselves in different ways aesthetically. 

 

Sorry but a 'genuine wild west simulation' went out the window when I saw a UFO atop Mt Shann and a vampire in Saint Denis. If there's room for a UFO in this universe, there's room for a pink jacket IMHO.

[Failed Again]

5 hours ago, Jason said:

What have I got to be kidding about?

 

Everything OP named as being aimed at kids is also done in games aimed at and predominately played by adults.

 

Pace of the game has zero to do with kids, there's fast paced and slow paced games aimed at all demographics. Bright, colourful cosmetics are also the best sellers in games with adult playerbases. Ability cards are a poor effort of a passive skill system designed to create build variety and are also unrelated to kids.

 

None of this has anything to do with kids AT ALL. The changes they've made and content they've added are all things that they believe will make them the most money and despite what people think, mtx in games aren't exclusively bought by children. All of the popular mtx driven games (Fortnite, Fifa, Overwatch, etc) have massive whales that will buy up everything and everything the moment it comes out. New Fifa Ultimate Team card drops are followed by people who drop 4-5 figure sums on mtx the same day, GTA Online updates will have people who buy 1-10x Great White Shark Cards so they can buy all the new stuff, Fortnite players who own literally every skin and emote that's ever been sold, etc. These are adults doing this, not kids. Whales of course aren't exclusively the only people who buy mtx either and yea sure kids do spend money on mtx but whales are just as big if not more. In smaller games the whales are basically what keep the game alive in many cases.

Why so serious..lol

too subtle I guess..(See winking Face clue)