How would you feel about a teen protagonist?

[Guest Billy Russo]

Just wondering what your thoughts would be on this. We've had younger protagonists like Frankilin, but nobody that feels really young from what I'm recall. I'm talking like someone that is maybe 18 or 19 and they get thrust in to the world of crime. I think it'd be interesting. Maybe something like A Bronx Tale type of story. A youngster that gets taken under a criminal's wing. Always wondered what it'd be like playing GTA as a character like Jimmy from V for example.

 

I guess the only issue would be the controversy surrounding it I presume, but Rockstar has done games like Bully in the past. Granted, it was more like prank violence than full-on crime like GTA.

 

Although I would expect the dialogue to be a lot more different than what we'd be used to in a GTA game, and the whole theme of the game would be very different. Just a thought anyways, thought I'd post a thread that might get people talking.

[Grotti Vigilante]

I'd rather someone older and more experienced in my honest opinion. CJ is about 24 years old in the events of San Andreas, to which previously he was about 19 before he moved to Liberty City in 1987. Luis Fernando Lopez and Franklin Clinton were both 25 years of age. They were young and barely fully mature though. Tommy Vercetti, Johnny Klebitz and Niko Bellic were 35, 34 and 30 respectively, both fully mature adults still in their prime but with enough life experience behind them to both give them a jaded view of the world they live in, and to be taken more seriously as a criminal. Even though you're about 18 or 19 with your suggestion, you're still barely an adult, and in fact not of legal age to drink alcohol and such. For me this is largely down to preference, but honestly I don't think a young and immature adult would be as good a protagonist as a more experienced older character. 

[Gtaman_92]

A protagonist that’s any younger then 23 would not work because they are not fully mature and experienced enough to make wise and smart choices within the criminal world. They will get themselves killed too easily by being too naive and trusting.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Gtaman_92

[Max.pain]

i think it wouldn’t matter much

[Guest Billy Russo]

54 minutes ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

I'd rather someone older and more experienced in my honest opinion. CJ is about 24 years old in the events of San Andreas, to which previously he was about 19 before he moved to Liberty City in 1987. Luis Fernando Lopez and Franklin Clinton were both 25 years of age. They were young and barely fully mature though. Tommy Vercetti, Johnny Klebitz and Niko Bellic were 35, 34 and 30 respectively, both fully mature adults still in their prime but with enough life experience behind them to both give them a jaded view of the world they live in, and to be taken more seriously as a criminal. Even though you're about 18 or 19 with your suggestion, you're still barely an adult, and in fact not of legal age to drink alcohol and such. For me this is largely down to preference, but honestly I don't think a young and immature adult would be as good a protagonist as a more experienced older character. 

Yeah, fair point. I'd be fine with this also. Someone MUCH older than Michael. Someone that has been out of the game for a long time, or like a Gran Torino kind of character that gets involved with gangs. Clint Eastwood style. That could be really cool.

 

7 minutes ago, Gtaman_92 said:

A protagonist that’s any younger then 23 would not work because they are not fully mature and experienced enough to make wise and smart choices within the criminal world. They will get themselves killed too easily by being too naive and trusting.

That's kind of the point I was trying to get across though. Someone young and naive, and as the story progresses we see them grow, learn the criminal lifestyle and rise up. What would be cool is to have actual noticeable ageing in a GTA for a change. You start the story as a late teen and by the end of the story you're in your early 20's with this character and you've got all that character development. It would give Rockstar more of an opportunity to introduce seasons and have the map change as the story progresses. I just think it'd be cool, although maybe too ambitious by me.

[DexMacLeod]

I don't know, GTA characters aren't really known for their maturity so I'm not sure that aspect would be a very big departure. I also don't really think age would make them any more or less naive to the criminal world.

 

If we're talking about someone new to crime and just being thrust into the criminal underworld than I think someone younger and not fully formed yet would have a much easier time adapting to it than someone who's been living on the straight and narrow for 30+ years.

 

Odds are we're going to get at least some sort of fish out of water story, though. I think a young, fresh faced kid might be a nice twist on that. I also think you could do an 18-19 year old with a decent enough amount of experience. Maybe he/she is a kid raised in a family of criminals but has always been kept at arm's length of the dirtier stuff and some sort of early inciting incident draws them deeper in.

 

Also, a more naive character (not that a young person needs to be naive or that an older person can't be) just makes room for more betrayals and twists which makes for a more compelling story.

 

Personally, I'd just like to see a protagonist that's considerably more athletic than we normally get. Ya know, someone who can run a little faster, climb stuff more smoothly, and run up and down slight hills without falling on their face.  

Edited November 15, 2019 by DexMacLeod

[squeezx]

No lol. Just not even remotely GTA. Maybe Bully. 

[Matty]

In a multi protagonist set-up - a younger/teenage protagonist would potentially work, especially when paired with an older protagonist who serves as the mentor in a similar way that Michael serves as Franklin's mentor in GTA V. 

 

I however could not see it working in a single protagonist setup, especially if they are completely inexperienced in criminal dealings. Sure, playing as a completely inexperienced protagonist would be a different gameplay experience but don't think it'd necessarily be a better gameplay experience in my opinion, nor would it be believable.

[GTK0HLK]

I think that kind of age is way too young.., or anything I get started with..,

unless of course you give them a terrible life to begin with..,

by their choice.., or just the unlucky ___ who got alot of bs.., but held strong through it..,

 

if anything.., a 20-21 seems around there for me..,

they can age in the game(not giving much reason for people to spot random b.s. about a random person drinking.., unless they did so by their own will~and where that way when it came to authority, if it's an American setting~)

they have some story options opened up due to being at the age where most things open up..,

and their back ground can be nearly anything reasonable..,

from advanced education to tired from the daily grind to etc..,

[an 18-19 would be just leaving school..,~which may inturn require some some background in that~ or out of it for a few years and you pretty much question alot about them, unless their past life dictates.., which again brings in School, and etc subjects<which I don't mind.., but others may not>]

 

that and it's much reasonable to start the character off with transportation or access to the different forms of getting around the city.., since not all kids really leave the home, or school, or areas of activity.., unless again.., background and that kind of person.., or who visited, or knows the city.., at the very least in today's world.., not many go out to the places where our character will.., or have the interests to..,

<while I don't mind the character, I'd rather they be at the 20-21+..,

since I myself have had a few idea for someone who was out of that world, sudden thrown in..,>

[Zello]

No thanks I prefer someone who has some experience in the criminal world. IMO the perfect age range for a protagonist should be between their 30's to early 40's. I'm kinda like Tom Cruise the perfect age should be 33 lol.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Zello

[GTA3Rockstar]

So, Bully? lol

 

Won't work for GTA tbh

[Algonquin Assassin]

I wouldn't mind it, but 18/19 would be my cutoff point as any younger wouldn't be very realistic. However at the same time I think it would also limit story possibilities as a 18/19 year old running a gang, being a highly skilled assassin etc wouldn't be very realistic either. Not to mention it would seem pretty silly for such a young guy to hold any sort of power over older and more experienced criminals. This is one of the reasons I'm not a fan of CJ as he still feels too young and naïve to be taken seriously seeing as he sh*ts bricks when Smoke pulls a bat on him at the start of the game yet he's in his mid 20s. 

 

Anyway a possible compromise I could see if the story takes place over a number of years/decades like a Mafia game. In Mafia II Vito was only about 18-20 in the beginning and he was just doing petty crime until he got sent to prison and came out a few years later. Tommy was also quite young when he got sent to prison (About 20) so the potential for a younger protagonist is there, but I think it would have to be aided by a multiple year/decade type story so we get to see him get older and become more hardened in time to make it seem feasible as 40-50s hours of a young guy learning the ropes and being taken under the wing would be get pretty boring IMO so I would rather it be kept at the beginning and watch him evolve like Ezio Auditore, Vito and other coming of age protagonists if R* were going to go down this path.

[Grotti Vigilante]

1 hour ago, SonOfLiberty said:

Not to mention it would seem pretty silly for such a young guy to hold any sort of power over older and more experienced criminals. This is one of the reasons I'm not a fan of CJ as he still feels too young and naïve to be taken seriously seeing as he sh*ts bricks when Smoke pulls a bat on him at the start of the game yet he's in his mid 20s. 

I did contemplate whether this would’ve been a good point to bring up. I can’t imagine a mob boss realistically thinking it a remotely good idea to hire a young man whose barely an adult to do any of the mafia’s dirty work. Part of Niko and Tommy’s intimidation comes from physical prowess, in which they are both fully grown men in their prime, but also with some more life experience behind them. I feel like it’d be harder to take the likes of Franklin more seriously in that same position since’s he’s still very young. Never mind an 18/19 year old who can’t even drink yet.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Grotti Vigilante

[GTA-Biker]

Honestly,I think any protagonist under the age of 20 would seem too young to be a GTA protagonist.IMO ideal age for a GTA protagonist is between 20 and 49,anyone younger would feel more like a Bully protagonist (at 17-19 they would be physically capable,but probably wouldn't be as mature and probably wouldn't be taken too seriously by older criminals),and anyone older would probably no longer be physically capable of doing all the stuff GTA protagonists do.

[Gentlebreeze]

Rockstar release Bully 2 and then GTA VI after would be the closer thing we get to this.

 

Multiplayer stand point.

[Guest Billy Russo]

5 hours ago, SonOfLiberty said:

I wouldn't mind it, but 18/19 would be my cutoff point as any younger wouldn't be very realistic. However at the same time I think it would also limit story possibilities as a 18/19 year old running a gang, being a highly skilled assassin etc wouldn't be very realistic either. Not to mention it would seem pretty silly for such a young guy to hold any sort of power over older and more experienced criminals. This is one of the reasons I'm not a fan of CJ as he still feels too young and naïve to be taken seriously seeing as he sh*ts bricks when Smoke pulls a bat on him at the start of the game yet he's in his mid 20s. 

 

Anyway a possible compromise I could see if the story takes place over a number of years/decades like a Mafia game. In Mafia II Vito was only about 18-20 in the beginning and he was just doing petty crime until he got sent to prison and came out a few years later. Tommy was also quite young when he got sent to prison (About 20) so the potential for a younger protagonist is there, but I think it would have to be aided by a multiple year/decade type story so we get to see him get older and become more hardened in time to make it seem feasible as 40-50s hours of a young guy learning the ropes and being taken under the wing would be get pretty boring IMO so I would rather it be kept at the beginning and watch him evolve like Ezio Auditore, Vito and other coming of age protagonists if R* were going to go down this path.

Fair points. I definitely would love to see the game take place over a number of years as well like I mentioned, you start out small and then get deeper and deeper in to crime. With that comes the experience and then he falls more in line with the likes of Niko, Tommy etc. The biggest reason I think this would be cool is the map would have to evolve as well as the character, so rather than everything looking the same, you get map updates as the game progresses. We've had it where different parts of the island unlock of course, but I don't recall us ever having significant changes to the look/feel of everything. Bully had seasons, and I always thought it was pretty cool for such an old game.

[Americana]

Well, main character of Mafia II, Vito, is 18 years old when you start the story... but it certainly doesn't feel like it.

 

---

[DexMacLeod]

5 hours ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

I did contemplate whether this would’ve been a good point to bring up. I can’t imagine a mob boss realistically thinking it a remotely good idea to hire a young man whose barely an adult to do any of the mafia’s dirty work.

I don't know if that would actually affect much. The GTA formula typically has you starting out doing smaller jobs and earning the trust of mission givers. As time goes on those early mission givers vouch for you with higher up guys or word of your deeds spreads and people keep giving you progressively bigger and bigger jobs.

 

I think a younger character that people don't trust at first would actually make that progression feel more natural.  

[Guest Billy Russo]

29 minutes ago, DexMacLeod said:

I don't know if that would actually affect much. The GTA formula typically has you starting out doing smaller jobs and earning the trust of mission givers. As time goes on those early mission givers vouch for you with higher up guys or word of your deeds spreads and people keep giving you progressively bigger and bigger jobs.

 

I think a younger character that people don't trust at first would actually make that progression feel more natural.  

That's what I was thinking. Usually with a GTA character you're just thrust in to the storyline. You did see characters like CJ & Franklin shift slightly from when we first see them, but I don't think it was executed very well.. I do agree anything below the ages of 18 or 19 would be unrealistic, but I don't think those ages are totally out of the realm of possibility. 

 

I like the suggestion @Matty made of having a younger character and an older mentor, both playable characters. As much as I wanted GTA VI to be a single playable protagonist again, I also wouldn't be against a story like that, as long as both characters had good development. 

[Grotti Vigilante]

3 hours ago, DexMacLeod said:

I don't know if that would actually affect much. The GTA formula typically has you starting out doing smaller jobs and earning the trust of mission givers. As time goes on those early mission givers vouch for you with higher up guys or word of your deeds spreads and people keep giving you progressively bigger and bigger jobs.

 

I think a younger character that people don't trust at first would actually make that progression feel more natural.  

This isn't really a thing I'm prepared to argue about because really, it's mostly down to preference. I still don't think someone as young would be taken as seriously as someone older, but even so, Tommy Vercetti was young when he started working for the Forellis. So much so that by the age of 20 he'd made Sonny anxious about his reputation and got set up for an ambush which lead to him getting a fierce nickname and reputation. But I'd still generally prefer older more mature characters in their 30s as a personal preference.

[DexMacLeod]

3 minutes ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

This isn't really a thing I'm prepared to argue about because really, it's mostly down to preference. I still don't think someone as young would be taken as seriously as someone older, but even so, Tommy Vercetti was young when he started working for the Forellis. So much so that by the age of 20 he'd made Sonny anxious about his reputation and got set up for an ambush which lead to him getting a fierce nickname and reputation. But I'd still generally prefer older more mature characters in their 30s as a personal preference.

Yeah, I personally don't really have an age preference apart from maybe someone under  35. I just want a character that's physically capable. That's probably not even so much an age thing though as much as it's just the way Rockstar designs their games.

[Volatollotalov]

I think the question misses the point.

 

One of the hooks of a game like this is to take the player out of their lived experience and immerse them in another place and / or time, soak it all in crime and then extrapolate the interesting parts of that character's lawlessness to the extreme. Just how many kills do you need to complete GTA5 or RDR2?

 

It just isn't plausible to apply those range of adventures and crimes to anyone in real life whatsoever.

 

Even the ultrawealth aspect is fantasy, of course. Unless you're a highest tier world-class sports star or a one in a billion rockstar (other musical genres apply, obviously) then actual individuals with truly vast riches and a huge power network of influential contacts at their disposal are few and far between at any age of life but less so in their 20s and 30s - mainly because there's always someone above them still calling the shots, and ready to skilfully guide plenty of that wealth into other hands.  

 

Even the sons and daughters of gold-plated oligarchs and national dictators tend to live fairly dull lives until at least their early 30s.  Similarly yet to greater degrees of audit organised criminals and druglords tend not to get their personal private armies, DIY submarine fleets and military base islands until at least their 50s and beyond - and even then it's over-rated, I understand. Nevertheless, age, sadly, still dictates rank in that world. Survival plus experience is at a premium and the drug cartels have yet to adopt truly progressive working practices. 

 

Where else to plausibly make megariches? Tech startups create billionaires in their 20s/30s of course - just look at Facebook and, a generation before, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. But they didn't get there from a ghetto, they did it from ensconced leafy halls and rainy garaged suburbs, and then grew into increasingly comfortable office blocks. Just like R* once rented a room above a shop. A game that simulates two or three decades of board meetings, marketing reports, sales strategies and earnings forecast spreadsheets - punctuated with hundreds of hours of coffee meetings at the least - won't sell all that much. Ironically.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Volatollotalov

[~INDIO~]

No because anyone over 25 would probably snap them in half

[billiejoearmstrong8]

Just seems like the younger the protagonist was the higher the chances of them being annoying and/or boring. It would be harder to make a criminal character that age compelling and there would be the danger of major cringe from them trying to write them as trendy and down with the times lol. I love Jimmy in Bully but I think that works because it's a game about school life and coming of age. A kid like that in a crime game probably wouldn't have been so good. 

[REVENGE777]

I mean, I think it would be an interesting idea for sure. Seeing the trials and tribulations of a troubled youth struggling to find his path in the world. If it was one protagonist that aged as the campaign went on, I think that would be the best course of action. Similar to MK Deception 

[OG Freddy LOC]

 

 

Somewhat topsy turvy , a Junior Triad .China boy Huang Lee,  or a small time crook younger than CJ, 

a teen age Mike GTAAdvance, all this arch-type characters rolled into a  joint,

can do the fandango..

 

I can't come up with a solid figure of a teen age witch pro-tag. for GTA VI double tap on that. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by OG Freddy LOC

[Lotte]

I guess it'd work but not necessarily with the way GTA traditionally works? same with the thing about the protagonist being unable to pilot planes initially. It would work better of the story was maybe...a different mode from the part of the game where you go crazy and just goof off?

[Guest Billy Russo]

On 11/16/2019 at 2:54 PM, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

Just seems like the younger the protagonist was the higher the chances of them being annoying and/or boring. It would be harder to make a criminal character that age compelling and there would be the danger of major cringe from them trying to write them as trendy and down with the times lol. I love Jimmy in Bully but I think that works because it's a game about school life and coming of age. A kid like that in a crime game probably wouldn't have been so good. 

Honestly I think Rockstar is one of the best when it comes to dialogue. Well most of the time, anyways. Of course it is hard to nail down the exact specifics and personalities of a teen today. A long as they don't go Watch Dogs 2 level of 'edgy' I think it'd be fine. As for making the character compelling, I actually think it largely depends on the background of the character and other factors like height. If you do a 19-20 year old that is pretty tall and relatively stocky/hardened for his age, maybe someone who gets in a lot of fights in his past and has had a tough upbringing. I could easily see someone like that being believable. Even up against more older people. 

[Copcaller]

Would prefer a protagonist in their twenties at least

[Zello]