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daltontigerboy

There has been no graphical downgrade from 1.00 (Image Heavy)

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daltontigerboy
Posted (edited)

Hello. I'm here today to put an end to the downgrade talk & fear-mongering that's been perpetuated by a false sense of placebo and psychosomatic bandwagoning on this website.

 

Before I go any further with debunking the “downgrade” tirade, a little bit of backstory to explain how and why I’ve decided to pursue this subject to reach my conclusion.

 

I’ve always been a digital player of RDR2, however, back in February I bought the disc version of RDR2 after viewing a post here comparing 1.00 and 1.03 - and seeing how ambient occlusion was in fact downgraded between the 2 versions. 

 

After getting that disc copy, and going into serious investigation on the matter (ie comparing footage and screenshots of my own and from YouTube), I was able to determine that the ambient occlusion was actually altered with the 1.02 day 1 patch, and then heavily downgraded with the 1.03 patch in late November when Online was introduced.

 

The ambient occlusion stayed in its downgraded state from 1.03-1.08, until Rockstar finally improved it with patch 1.09 back in May. 

 

However, the ambient occlusion we have from 1.09 to the present 1.13 does not match the ambient occlusion in 1.00 - Instead, Rockstar only managed to match it to where it was with 1.02 - which is still good, great even, but it doesn’t match 1.00, no version ever has. 

 

So, to wrap up this point I’m making so we can move on, there are 3 different versions of ambient occlusion we have seen in RDR2, and here’s a quick breakdown of them with some details:

 

• 1.00 (unpatched disc) - very clean and neat AO, nice neat shadows underneath objects and in creases where two surfaces meet. Looks good but can look a little unnatural and too “clean” in some instances. 

 

• 1.03-1.08 (Late November-May) - downgraded AO, shadows underneath objects in general store almost nonexistent and objects appear as if they’re floating on the table with no contact shadows, no shadow underneath Saint Denis Trolley at all

 

• 1.02/1.09-1.13 (Mid October 2018/May 2019-Present) - Better AO, shadows underneath objects in general store (but not like 1.00) and underneath Saint Denis Trolley. The AO looks different from 1.00 but in some ways I believe it appears more natural due to 1.00 looking too “neat” in certain instances.

 

Now that we’re done talking about AO, I want to bring up another thing I noticed after doing my investigation in February, which pertains to the sharpness of the game. 

 

On PS4 Pro (I cant speak for base PS4 and XB1 versions) RDR2 1.00 is sharper in appearance than 1.02-1.13 - and that’s just a fact. It’s not a lot sharper, but it is noticeable for someone who plays on a 65” 4k tv. Even though it’s sharper with 1.00, it becomes almost  as blurry as any other version once you start moving the camera - it only retains its sharpness when the camera is set still and it resolves the resolution quickly, unlike 1.02-1.13, where you have to wait a few seconds without moving the camera for the frame to sharpen (and even then it’s still not quite as sharp as 1.00)

 

The difference in sharpness between 1.00 and every other version isn’t anything crazy, but noticeable if you have a PS4 Pro and especially a 4k tv. 

 

Now, with those 2 points about AO and sharpness being made, allow me to get back to the main point I’m here to make today...

 

There is no downgrade. Everything else, other than the 2 things I mentioned, is visually IDENTICAL between 1.00 and all other versions of the game. Rockstar never downgraded the game’s visuals and anyone here who suggests that they have is suffering from a psychosomatic placebo effect. They are seeing what their minds and emotions are telling them to see, but not actually seeing reality. 

 

The other night I went and re-bought the disc version of the game, after skimming through this thread and seeing more talk of “downgrade” on each page, as well as people here believing the game is downgraded/upgraded with each new patch, but with no basis other than their placebo goggles. 

 

After several days of playing 1.00, swapping between it and 1.13, taking like-for-like screenshots in almost identical conditions, and observing/comparing them side by side for hours, I'm here to bring you the truth...

 

And here it is - top images are 1.00, bottom are 1.13 (most current update)

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The truth is, there is no downgrade. And there never was a downgrade (other than the AO from 1.03-1.08 as I discussed above).

 

RDR2 looks exactly the same now as it does in 1.00

 

The only minor differences you’ll see in these shots are entirely due to slightly different weather/lighting conditions (I got as close as possible), on top of the aforementioned different AO and sharpness.

 

Nothing was ever downgraded besides the AO, and now that AO has been restored back to the solid state as it was on 1.02, there’s absolutely no advantages to 1.00

 

• 1.00 has much worse performance than 1.13 running in high resolution mode

 

• 1.00 is extremely glitchy, having many distracting clipping issues with clothing and hair

 

• 1.00 has a buggy and jerky map/mini-map

 

• 1.00 has frame hitches and unevenness when moving the camera in 3rd person view (try rotating the right thumbstick in circles rapidly, it’s horrible)

 

• 1.00 has several issues with the weapon wheel and inventory menus

 

And many other immersion-breaking glitches and issues that I can’t bother to list right now. The only noteworthy benefits you get with playing 1.00 is the different Ambient Occlusion (personal preference), lanterns in front of Worth’s general store are on a night, better sharpness on PS4 Pro, and Johns gloves look normal. Oh and I guess you can temporarily visit New Austin with Arthur using a glitch. That’s literally it in terms of noteworthy benefits. 

 

I even looked at pedestrian density to see if there was a downgrade and I could not come up with anything conclusive enough to say there is, all the towns are absolutely bustling with life no matter which version you’re playing. Now, Is it possible that 1.00 may have 3 or so more NPC’s walking around at any given time? Sure, it’s possible...but it’s such a small difference that I didn’t notice it during my testing and comparing. 

 

There is not worse pop in or draw distance in newer builds either. 

 

1.00 is simply an inferior version at this point, and yet there’s many users on this website who have themselves (and others) convinced that the game has been visually downgraded - when it hasn’t and never has been.

 

I’ve done the research, the investigating, and put in the time + effort to prove it to you all - with visual evidence comparing like-for-like scenes (as close as I could get), and clearly the evidence speaks for itself. 

 

So can we stop this bullsh*t narrative now?

Edited by daltontigerboy

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Red Hardbro

Who the HELL do you think you are heh? If I want to complain about a downgrade then dawgonit I’m going to complain about a downgrade. Don’t come into this forum with you reason and logic and try to sway me I am simple country folk what I believe is what I believe good day Sir!!

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Dudu RDRII
Posted (edited)

Very good topic and very informative! Do you think the differences between 1.00 and 1.13 are the same through all four consoles (PS4/XB1/PS4P/XB1X)? I think the only difference is the resolution in each one (1080p/864p/Upscaled 2160p/Native 2160p).

Edited by Dudu RDRII

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CH14R1
Posted (edited)

Thanks for your work. I confess that I was one who stood over the fence, likely because the game impressed me so much at launch and maybe not that much when I restarted after being away for some time.

Edited by CH14R1

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daltontigerboy
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Dudu RDRII said:

Very good topic and very informative! Do you think the differences between 1.00 and 1.13 are the same between all four consoles (PS4/XB1/PS4P/XB1X)?

Yes they are from what I’ve seen.

 

All versions were altered in the exact same ways at the same times. 
 

1.00 on all four consoles has the same Ambient Occlusion solution, which was changed in mid Oct 2018 for the day one patch (1.02), and then they were all downgraded in late November with patch 1.03 - and then subsequently all improved back in May with patch 1.09

 

The visual makeup and fidelity of the game has never been altered, in any version, beyond the Ambient Occlusion changes - period. 
 

The main difference between each specific console version is the rendered resolution.

Edited by daltontigerboy

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Dudu RDRII
3 minutes ago, daltontigerboy said:

Yes they are from what I’ve seen.

 

All versions were altered in the exact same ways at the same times. 
 

1.00 on all four consoles has the same Ambient Occlusion solution, which was changed in mid Oct 2018 for the day one patch (1.02), and then they were all downgraded in late November with patch 1.03 - and then subsequently all improved back in May with patch 1.09

 

The visual makeup and fidelity of the game has never been altered, in any version, beyond the Ambient Occlusion changes - period. 
 

The main difference between each version is the rendered resolution.

I play Red Dead Redemption 2 on the Xbox One Fat ever since 1.03 and I can assure the game looks better after 1.09 (it's still the same thing in 1.13, so don't worry).

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ThroatSlasher2

This is gonna be great. Here's me stamping my ticket for the show.

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Gleeman Vox

even if there was a minor downgrade, the fact people were outraged is f*cking ridiculous

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SneakyDeaky

 

6 hours ago, daltontigerboy said:

After getting that disc copy, and going into serious investigation on the matter (ie comparing footage and screenshots of my own and from YouTube), I was able to determine that the ambient occlusion was actually altered with the 1.02 day 1 patch, and then slightly downgraded again with the 1.03 patch in late November when Online was introduced.

So, wait, you are saying there was a downgrade?

 

6 hours ago, daltontigerboy said:

The ambient occlusion stayed in its worst downgraded state from 1.03-1.08, until Rockstar finally improved it with patch 1.09 back in May.

And they tried to fix it? 8 months later? Perhaps after sites like dualshockers and eurogamer brought attention to it in March?

 

6 hours ago, daltontigerboy said:

However, the ambient occlusion we have from 1.09 to the present 1.13 does not match the ambient occlusion in 1.00 - Instead, Rockstar only managed to match it to where it was with 1.02 - which is still good, great even, but it doesn’t match 1.00, no version ever has

I see. 🤠

 

6 hours ago, daltontigerboy said:

•1.00 (unpatched disc) - very clean and neat AO, nice neat shadows underneath objects and in creases where two surfaces meet. Looks good but can look a little unnatural and too “clean” in some instances. 

 

• 1.03-1.08 (Late November-May) - downgraded AO, shadows underneath objects in general store almost nonexistent and objects appear as if they’re floating on the table with no contact shadows, no shadow underneath Saint Denis Trolley at all

 

• 1.02/1.09-1.13 (Mid October 2018/May 2019-Present) - Better AO, shadows underneath objects in general store (but not like 1.00) and underneath Saint Denis Trolley. The AO looks different from 1.00 but in some ways I believe it appears more natural due to 1.00 looking too “neat”. I’ll show you what I mean with my comparison shots here shortly.

Well, thank you for documenting the downgrade. Who needs to fear monger when we have you?

 

6 hours ago, daltontigerboy said:

On PS4 Pro (I cant speak for Xbox versions) RDR2 1.00 is sharper in appearance than 1.02-1.13 - and that’s just a fact. It’s not a lot sharper, but it is noticeable for someone who plays on a 65” 4k tv. Even though it’s sharper with 1.00, it becomes almost  as blurry as any other version once you start moving the camera - it only retains its sharpness when the camera is set still and it resolves the resolution quickly, unlike 1.02-1.13, where you have to wait a few seconds without moving the camera for the frame to sharpen (and even then it’s still not quite as sharp as 1.00)

 

The difference in sharpness between 1.00 and every other version isn’t anything crazy, but noticeable if you have a PS4 Pro and especially a 4k tv. 

 

Now, with those 2 points about AO and sharpness being made, allow me to get back to the main point I’m here to make today...

 

There is no downgrade.

I'm really confused.

 

6 hours ago, daltontigerboy said:

people here believing the game is downgraded/upgraded with each new patch, but with no basis other than their placebo goggles. 

Now I'm baffled! Did you not just show evidence that is exactly what happened?🤠

 

6 hours ago, daltontigerboy said:

 

The truth is, there is no downgrade. And there never was a downgrade (other than the AO from 1.03-1.08 as I discussed above).

 

RDR2 looks exactly the same from 1.00-1.13

 

The only minor differences you’ll see in these shots are entirely due to slightly different weather/time of day conditions, on top of the aforementioned different AO and sharpness.

 

Nothing was ever downgraded besides the AO, and now that AO

You don't even sound sure yourself...

 

6 hours ago, daltontigerboy said:

there’s absolutely no advantages to 1.00

New Austin glitch.

Lantern glitch.

Out of world glitch.

John Marston's clothing.

Your saddle doesn't spawn on the roof on Beecher's Hope

Can remove ugly and glitchy secondary holster.

Much more camp activity by far (Put in a few hundred hours in camp on 1.03 and then do exactly the same on 1.00, and prove to me otherwise.)

 

Believe it or not, but these are HUGE benefits for a lot of us, that's why we play the "inferior" version.

 

7 hours ago, daltontigerboy said:

1.00 is simply an inferior version at this point, and yet there’s many users on this website who have themselves (and others) convinced that the game has been visually downgraded

It is not all about graphics, you know? A lot of people, including me, are playing on 1.00 because of the reasons I listed above, not because of some minor lighting differences.

 

I'm already playing in true 4K on the Xbox X. Every time I turn the game on, I do a double take. I feel like I'm in a living and breathing painting with every landscape painstakingly handmade by some of the world's great visual artists. It is breathtaking and a technical marvel.

 

But I prefer to have the benefits I listed above when playing the game. That is my choice. Also after 6 YEARS of downloading update after update for GTA Online, which I had no interest in, I decided I would rather not allocate the hard drive space for RDO Online this time. That is my choice.

 

7 hours ago, daltontigerboy said:

So can we stop this bullsh*t narrative now?

I feel like this thread will only help the narrative, but that's just my opinion. Debate is fine, welcome, but what is not welcome is being told to believe I'm some deluded, bandwagoning fear monger.

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daltontigerboy
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

So, wait, you are saying there was a downgrade?

Ambient Occlusion was downgraded in late November of 2018 with the introduction of the Online Beta (update 1.03), and then fixed in update 1.09 in May of this year. 
 

As I stated, other than this one specific thing, the game was never graphically downgraded in any other way, contrary to what people here like to believe and bring up every time a new update releases. The point of my post was to clarify that for people who either weren’t sure or wanted to know the reality - and I spent a hell of a lot of time to bring forth unmistakable evidence to prove it. 

 

5 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

I'm really confused.

Sorry to hear that. I believe I articulated my points very clearly and most people probably understand what I’m trying to show here. Unfortunate that you’re just here to be cheeky and act like you’re missing the point for the sake of your personal preference justification. 
 

5 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

Now I'm baffled! Did you not just show evidence that is exactly what happened?

Nope. I just presented irrefutable screenshot evidence that the game looks nearly identical in the current update as it does with 1.00, other than a different (and sometimes more natural looking) Ambient Occlusion solution.

 

But go ahead, keep intentionally missing the point. 
 

5 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

You don't even sound sure yourself...

I’m very sure of everything I’ve said. I spent a lot of time making sure that I’m sure of it. 
 

5 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

New Austin glitch.

Lantern glitch.

Out of world glitch.

John Marston's clothing.

Your saddle doesn't spawn on the roof on Beecher's Hope

Can remove ugly and glitchy secondary holster.

Much more camp activity by far (Put in a few hundred hours in camp on 1.03 and then do exactly the same on 1.00, and prove to me otherwise.)

 

Believe it or not, but these are HUGE benefits for a lot of us, that's why we play the "inferior" version.

Listen, it’s fine that you prefer to play 1.00 because of your glitches and hatred of a holster - but most people will not see those things as “huge” benefits compared to a patched version that is relatively glitch/bug free, has way less clipping issues, feels much better to play, has a lot better performance, has the option to play Online....oh and of course looks almost visually identical to the unpatched version (as made evident by my post)

 

My post was meant to be informative for those who have been convinced by certain...users here that the game has been (and keeps getting) “downgraded” with each new patch - And the images speak for themselves. 

5 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

I'm already playing in true 4K on the Xbox X. Every time I turn the game on, I do a double take. I feel like I'm in a living and breathing painting with every landscape painstakingly handmade by some of the world's great visual artists. It is breathtaking and a technical marvel.

That’s great, and I agree. RDR2 is (easily) the best looking video game of all time, and my jaw is on the floor every time I boot it up. It’s absolutely gorgeous beyond belief. The fact that current consoles are capable of running such a game is nuts. 

Fortunately, none of that changes with the current version of the game, and I’ve spent a lot of time making sure of it. 🤠

 

5 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

I feel like this thread will only help the narrative, but that’s just my opinion.

Indeed.

 

5 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

Debate is fine, welcome, but what is not welcome is being told to believe I'm some deluded, bandwagoning fear monger.

If you are someone who claims the game has been visually downgraded beyond the AO alterations (and/or keeps being downgraded every time a new update comes out) like some other users here, you are exactly that. 
 

I’m just a guy here...with like-for-like visual evidence to disprove said users. 🤷‍♂️

Edited by daltontigerboy

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Cutter De Blanc
Posted (edited)

In the "man from blackwater" picture you cant see the mountain in the distance on the current version. Thats an example of the draw distance thing

Edited by Cutter De Blanc

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daltontigerboy
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

In the "man from blackwater" picture you cant see the mountain in the distance on the current version. Thats an example of the draw distance thing

After booting the game up on version 1.13 to look into this, that mountain you see in the far back of the 1.00 image is actually some background terrain very far away in the inaccessible “Mexico” area of the map, across from Flat Iron Lake. 
 

It was altered and doesn’t look like that anymore, it was changed to more flat terrain/smaller hills. 
 

So no, not a draw distance issue, because it’s not actually there now.
 

There is no difference in draw distance between 1.00 and the current version, as clearly evident by my screenshot comparisons - especially with the last comparison shot 

Edited by daltontigerboy

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UpTheDowngrade
Posted (edited)

Nah, the game was significantly downgraded. Already seen the proof a thousand times with my own eyes. You're fighting the facts, here.

Edited by UpTheDowngrade

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daltontigerboy
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, UpTheDowngrade said:

Nah, the game was significantly downgraded. Already seen the proof a thousand times with my own eyes. You're fighting the facts, here.

Lol..keep those placebo goggles on, even though you just posted in a thread containing factual visual proof otherwise. 
 

“You’re fighting the facts, here.”

Oh, the irony.

 

Please feel free to present 1:1 like-for-like images displaying the downgrade then. Don’t forget they gotta be almost exactly the same time, weather, and lighting conditions - or else you’d be wasting your time, and more importantly, ours!
 

Good luck, cowboy! 🤠

Edited by daltontigerboy

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Darealbandicoot

I'll help here. A mission that is like for like and has the time frozen is "The Wheel". Get comparisons from both versions of this mission when your asked to go to Pronghorn Ranch. It will take a while to get around with the wagon but it's like for like. 

 

Get comparisons from this mission folks and we'll see what differences we find. 

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SneakyDeaky
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, daltontigerboy said:

Ambient Occlusion was downgraded in late November of 2018 with the introduction of the Online Beta (update 1.03), and then fixed in update 1.09 in May of this year. 
 

As I stated, other than this one specific thing, the game was never graphically downgraded in any other way, contrary to what people here like to believe and bring up every time a new update releases. The point of my post was to clarify that for people who either weren’t sure or wanted to know the reality - and I spent a hell of a lot of time to bring forth unmistakable evidence to prove it. 

 

Sorry to hear that. I believe I articulated my points very clearly and most people probably understand what I’m trying to show here. Unfortunate that you’re just here to be cheeky and act like you’re missing the point for the sake of your personal preference justification. 
 

Nope. I just presented irrefutable screenshot evidence that the game looks nearly identical in the current update as it does with 1.00, other than a different (and sometimes more natural looking) Ambient Occlusion solution.

 

But go ahead, keep intentionally missing the point. 
 

I’m very sure of everything I’ve said. I spent a lot of time making sure that I’m sure of it. 
 

Listen, it’s fine that you prefer to play 1.00 because of your glitches and hatred of a holster - but most people will not see those things as “huge” benefits compared to a patched version that is relatively glitch/bug free, has way less clipping issues, feels much better to play, has a lot better performance, has the option to play Online....oh and of course looks almost visually identical to the unpatched version (as made evident by my post)

 

My post was meant to be informative for those who have been convinced by certain...users here that the game has been (and keeps getting) “downgraded” with each new patch - And the images speak for themselves. 

That’s great, and I agree. RDR2 is (easily) the best looking video game of all time, and my jaw is on the floor every time I boot it up. It’s absolutely gorgeous beyond belief. The fact that current consoles are capable of running such a game is nuts. 

Fortunately, none of that changes with the current version of the game, and I’ve spent a lot of time making sure of it. 🤠

 

Indeed.

 

If you are someone who claims the game has been visually downgraded beyond the AO alterations (and/or keeps being downgraded every time a new update comes out) like some other users here, you are exactly that. 
 

I’m just a guy here...with like-for-like visual evidence to disprove said users. 🤷‍♂️

Oh man, I don't think you understand me at all. Numerous times, sometimes even in the same sentence, you say the game wasn't downgraded and also say it was. I quoted some of those examples. This is why I'm confused.

 

Either certain elements of the graphics were downgraded, like the AO for instance, or they wasn't. That's that. And they were.
Either certain elements of the graphics were later upgraded, like the AO for instance, or they wasn't. That's that. And they were.
Either certain elements of the graphics were downgraded then upgraded from patch to patch, or they wasn't. That's that. And they were.

 

You cannot have it both ways. You even listed examples of those downgrades and upgrades, or "fixes." It doesn't matter how minor those changes were. It doesn't matter which patch they started tinkering with the graphics and which patch they stopped tinkering with the graphics, they did tinker with the graphics. That's that. You cannot list these examples your own self, no matter how minor, then try to whitewash them.

 

I'm glad the game looks great now with the latest patch. I really don't care about the AO now, they finally fixed it and fixed HDR. Good. I haven't seen all that many people talking about the AO much anymore since it was fixed. The discussion around 1.00 is usually about glitches, camp activity wildlife/NPC diversity and other details. The AO was a hot topic months ago. It's only been the last couple of pages on that thread where graphics have become a debate again.

 

And now we have you accusing people here of fear mongering.

 

5 hours ago, daltontigerboy said:

Listen, it’s fine that you prefer to play 1.00 because of your glitches and hatred of a holster - but most people will not see those things as “huge” benefits compared to a patched version that is relatively glitch/bug free, has way less clipping issues, feels much better to play, has a lot better performance, has the option to play Online....oh and of course looks almost visually identical to the unpatched version (as made evident by my post)

When this thread gets to 38 pages of people mostly agreeing with you, then fine.

 

Edited by SneakyDeaky

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daltontigerboy
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SneakyDeaky said:

When this thread gets to 38 pages of people mostly agreeing with you, then fine.

C’mon son...50% or more of the posts in that thread are from a small handful of users, some of which have already posted in this thread, as I expected them to. I’m sure they read the title and clicked on this thread faster than they could even blink. 
 

I certainly don’t expect this thread to reach any sort of length because, well, the situation is pretty cut and dry. 
 

Not to mention, I’m certainly not gonna be in here for 9 months whining about “constant graphics downgrades”, or a hairstyle, a holster, or the lack of a glitch - This thread was created for informative purposes only. 

Edited by daltontigerboy

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UpTheDowngrade
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, daltontigerboy said:

Lol..keep those placebo goggles on, even though you just posted in a thread containing factual visual proof otherwise. 
 

“You’re fighting the facts, here.”

Oh, the irony.

 

Please feel free to present 1:1 like-for-like images displaying the downgrade then. Don’t forget they gotta be almost exactly the same time, weather, and lighting conditions - or else you’d be wasting your time, and more importantly, ours!
 

Good luck, cowboy! 🤠

Sorry, you're wrong. No amount of your screenshots will convince us it hasn't been downgraded. It's a fact. Already posted my own comparisons. And I have two eyes and a brain to see it myself. The only person's time that is being wasted, is yours, desperately trying to convince us (for whatever reason), the game wasn't downgraded visually.

Edited by UpTheDowngrade

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daltontigerboy
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, UpTheDowngrade said:

Sorry, you're wrong. No amount of your screenshots will convince us it hasn't been downgraded. It's a fact. Already posted my own comparisons. And I have two eyes and a brain to see it myself. The only person's time that is being wasted, is yours, desperately trying to convince us (for whatever reason), the game wasn't downgraded visually.

“I don’t want to believe objective visual evidence because of my own biased preconceived opinions that have no factual basis - I only believe what my emotionally charged and placebo-corrupted judgement wants me to.”

 

Way to make people looking at this from an objective point of view immediately disregard anything you have to say lol. The only one here who seems desperate to believe something is you, “UpTheDowngrade”. 

Edited by daltontigerboy

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Tuskin38
9 hours ago, UpTheDowngrade said:

Nah, the game was significantly downgraded. Already seen the proof a thousand times with my own eyes. You're fighting the facts, here.

You're the one in the thread here looking at facts and refuting them.

Edited by Tuskin38

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Jake3

I don't mean to pour gas on the fire, but I can't believe no one has mentioned the low-res textures so far. I remember when I was watching one of those comparisons (a few months ago maybe - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB28K_ljqtM) and it's pretty clearly visible on the 2-minute mark. There are entire elements missing - for example there is some kind of patch on the right shoulder of his vest, other elements are much less pronounced and clothing looks more "blocky/chunky" - dare I say it has less tessellation? Otherwise, Valentine at night is completely fine and it's not a downgrade. The other lanterns aren't lit up because they are for sale (AFAIK). Now, I'd really like to see a comparison between 1.00 and current version of that specific shot, showing the vest texture issue! And how they haven't fixed Marston's gloves and pants so far is absolutely beyond me.

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daltontigerboy
2 hours ago, Jake3 said:

I don't mean to pour gas on the fire, but I can't believe no one has mentioned the low-res textures so far. I remember when I was watching one of those comparisons (a few months ago maybe - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB28K_ljqtM) and it's pretty clearly visible on the 2-minute mark. There are entire elements missing - for example there is some kind of patch on the right shoulder of his vest, other elements are much less pronounced and clothing looks more "blocky/chunky" - dare I say it has less tessellation? Otherwise, Valentine at night is completely fine and it's not a downgrade. The other lanterns aren't lit up because they are for sale (AFAIK). Now, I'd really like to see a comparison between 1.00 and current version of that specific shot, showing the vest texture issue! And how they haven't fixed Marston's gloves and pants so far is absolutely beyond me.

I’ve watched that video several times now and the only obvious difference I’m spotting is the lower quality Ambient Occlusion (since this was 1.07 and Rockstar didn’t fix it until 1.09)

 

It’s obvious in the bar scene and with that little bit with the grass at the end. Weather also isn’t quite 1:1 so when John and Sadie are leaving the bar that’s what makes that scene look different. Even the slightest difference in cloud cover, fog or weather in certain moments will do that though - And it changes so fast that it’s really almost impossible to keep it even for a comparison.
 

I don’t see any difference in textures at all. The vest looks the same to me. 
 

That video is compressed to hell and back though, so it’s not very good in terms of making a quality comparison. So many details in the scenes are lost with highly compressed 1080p YouTube videos so it’s hard to use them as a legitimate way to compare footage. The screenshots I posted at the beginning of this thread are full resolution, uncompressed shots you can actually see the smallest details in each scene.  

Edited by daltontigerboy

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Yoona

Thank you Dalton. There's been people calling this a PS2 game after the supposed "downgrade" lmao.

Edited by Yoona

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Jake3
12 minutes ago, daltontigerboy said:

I don’t see any difference in textures at all. 
 

That video is compressed to hell and back though, 

Uhm... Excuse me, but... LOL You don't see any difference in textures... "at all"? Funny thing is that even though the video is compressed, a lot, it's still easily visible where the problem is. Don't you see at least the difference in the detail on the right shoulder that I'm speaking of? What about the whole 3D model in the updated version looking like something borrowed from Minecraft? I'd be really interested to hear the opinions of other forum members on the subject.

 

And please don't explain to me how it's compressed and you can't see jacksh*t because of that - I know perfectly well what you are talking about and have done enough comparisons to know my way around stuff like that - it's just that this time compression is not enough (although it's pretty bad, and that's the funny thing) to hamper the comparison - and I know many other cases where it would have been more than enough to completely make the comparison useless - what you're blabbering about is simply something that you've learned (and is usually correct - just not in this case) and you're stuck on repeat. "It looks the same to you"... come on man, don't you see it's obvious? I see the difference in AO - I'm not referring to that, sorry. Do you realize what the 3D shape/model of the vest is? Do you realize it can't be affected by AO or compression? What's up at least with that? And no, last thing is that weather or lighting conditions also don't affect the shape of the vest. So again - sorry to break it to you but you explained 1000 other things which have nothing to do with that, trying to circle around the subject for unknown reasons, only to "prove" there's "absolutely no" graphics downgrade. Understand that I don't say it is something huge or something that you can't enjoy the game because of, however, on the other hand you claim there's "no downgrade AT ALL", which of course is laughable. The only thing I'd respect from you is if you could provide screenshots comparing the scene 1:1 between 1.00 and 1.13.

Edited by Jake3

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daltontigerboy
4 minutes ago, Jake3 said:

Uhm... Excuse me, but... LOL You don't see any difference in textures... "at all"? Funny thing is that even though the video is compressed, a lot, it's still easily visible where the problem is. Don't you see at least the difference in the detail on the right shoulder that I'm speaking of? What about the whole 3D model in the updated version looking like something borrowed from Minecraft? I'd be really interested to hear the opinions of other forum members on the subject.

Nope. I don’t see any difference in textures in that video. 
 

Like I said, I do see the obvious difference in Ambient Occlusion, and lighting is clearly different when they’re walking out of the bar so everything in that scene looks different, but that’s how lighting works. 
 

In one scene it looks like Johns sleeve might have a few less wrinkles on it, but a few scenes later they look exactly the same. 
 

You saying that something looks like a 3D model borrowed from Minecraft is...pretty laughable...and exposing your lack of objectivity considering how identical all the models are, except for the shot glass John takes a drink from at 1:21

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pariah87

Tell me how to get out of the map in 1.13 and then tell me 1.00 has no ADVANTAGES lmao

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Jake3
15 minutes ago, daltontigerboy said:

Nope.

And please don't explain to me how it's compressed and you can't see jacksh*t because of that - I know perfectly well what you are talking about and have done enough comparisons to know my way around stuff like that - it's just that this time compression is not enough (although it's pretty bad, and that's the funny thing) to hamper the comparison - and I know many other cases where it would have been more than enough to completely make the comparison useless - what you're blabbering about is simply something that you've learned (and is usually correct - just not in this case) and you're stuck on repeat. "It looks the same to you"... come on man, don't you see it's obvious? I see the difference in AO - I'm not referring to that, sorry. Do you realize what the 3D shape/model of the vest is? Do you realize it can't be affected by AO or compression? What's up at least with that? And no, last thing is that weather or lighting conditions also don't affect the shape of the vest. So again - sorry to break it to you but you explained 1000 other things which have nothing to do with that, trying to circle around the subject for unknown reasons, only to "prove" there's "absolutely no" graphics downgrade. Understand that I don't say it is something huge or something that you can't enjoy the game because of, however, on the other hand you claim there's "no downgrade AT ALL", which of course is laughable. The only thing I'd respect from you is if you could provide screenshots comparing the scene 1:1 between 1.00 and 1.13.

 

OK, even if we temporarily say "f*ck it" to everything else about textures, AO, lighting conditions, etc., don't you see the difference in the contours of the vest - why is it different between those two versions of the game in the video? Is it different today, compared to the newest version? I can't do that comparison. At least you could do that. Why don't you do that and put an end to it all. I'm also interested in doing it, as I don't want to just argue with some random person on the internet, I'd rather like to see a real quality comparison, which I've looked for on the internet, and so far there's none!

Edited by Jake3

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gtafan1995
12 hours ago, UpTheDowngrade said:

Nah, the game was significantly downgraded. Already seen the proof a thousand times with my own eyes. You're fighting the facts, here.

post your facts then, because what you are saying is called anecdotal evidence

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Jake3
1 minute ago, gtafan1995 said:

post your facts then, because what you are saying is called anecdotal evidence

I did... posted at least one fact. The only thing I can't guarantee is whether the same holds true compared to today's newest version.

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JC_HUMBLE

Ah sh*t, here we go again...

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