Turning Defensive Off For Certain Activities

[Ghoffman9]

I find this to be a real issue because many activities like legendary bounties turns your defensive off, then the game stupidly spawns you in free roam close to other players who will a lot of times start shooting at you before you can take five steps. Either make it remain active at all times or not spawn us in the eye of a sh*tstorm with players looking to shoot you on sight. I fail to see why Defensive needs to even be turned off if said activity is PvE related and not PvP. Just now I finished the five star Owlhoot bounty and I got spawned right in the middle of a posse of four who started attacking me immediately. What good is defensive if they keep shutting it off and throwing you right in the center of a griefer cesspit? Counterproductive if you ask me.

 

I never understood why Rockstar is obsessed with spawning you within spitting distance of other players. What GTAO should have taught them is that most in their community are assholes and most are not looking to be friendly. They don't make the world "feel more alive" that is never the player's job, it the job of the NPC's to do that. Some player riding by blasting music into his headset shouting every obscenity in the book does the polar opposite of that.

Its one of the things that Bethesda royally screwed up with Fallout 76, thinking that players alone is all thats needed to make a world feel alive.

 

I will just let Angry Joe wrap up my angry rant.

 

[CMCSAVAGE]

6 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

 I fail to see why Defensive needs to even be turned off if said activity is PvE related and not PvP.

The issue isn't disabling it, it's not having it reactivated after said activity, regardless of what it is.. If I'm in defensive mode before a showdown, then I should automatically go back to defensive, I shouldn't have to keep doing it.

[netnow66]

1 hour ago, CMCSAVAGE said:

The issue isn't disabling it, it's not having it reactivated after said activity, regardless of what it is.. If I'm in defensive mode before a showdown, then I should automatically go back to defensive, I shouldn't have to keep doing it.

Spawned in after one of the modes. Before I could change to Defensive, someone tackled me, hogtied me, tried to fire bomb me and eventually shot me. Rockstar is such an XXXXXXX company.

[Ghoffman9]

You'd think if they can get the game to remember your preferred setting when you log off, then it would also do the same when doing an activity. Numerous times after completing an event I get attacked before the needed thirty seconds pass to activate it. Its me either getting shot the moment I spawn in, or hiding in a dark corner somewhere counting down thirty seconds. Rockstar somehow has this twisted idea that players around you make the world feel more alive. They either ignore you and never give you the time of day, or they try griefing the sh*t out of you.The kind of reactions they want/expect are those only shared amongst friends, not complete strangers.

 

I honestly wonder what good Rockstar thinks its going to do spawning players that are complete strangers next to each other.

[CMCSAVAGE]

1 hour ago, Ghoffman9 said:

You'd think if they can get the game to remember your preferred setting when you log off...

Or the ammo you were using after respawning in PvP. 

[Jason]

Easy fix for this: default everybody to defensive mode in free roam. You have to remove defensive mode manually either through the quick menu or by raising your hostility.

 

Betcha no one would complain if they did this.

 

inb4 someone complains

[CMCSAVAGE]

19 minutes ago, Jason said:

Easy fix for this: default everybody to defensive mode in free roam. You have to remove defensive mode manually either through the quick menu or by raising your hostility.

And the first thing every asshat is going to do, is switch to offensive the moment they log on. To me, it's really not that big of a deal, but rather a stupid QoL thing that should be present.

[Jason]

13 minutes ago, CMCSAVAGE said:

And the first thing every asshat is going to do, is switch to offensive the moment they log on. To me, it's really not that big of a deal, but rather a stupid QoL thing that should be present.

Every asshat looking to grief, yes, but a big reason for the shootouts in those areas where it dumps everybody after missions is because of fear. Shoot them so they can't shoot you. People being scared of getting shot/griefed is a reason people grief, because years of games like GTAO have taught us that you can't trust anybody.

 

Defensive mode being default means if you want to grief in those situations where currently def mode gets removed, you'd be putting your self at a disadvantage. That alone would calm it down.

 

Of course they could just change it so defensive mode is reapplied for this specific situation but defensive mode being default for everyone would just plug all issues like this going forward and it'd be, like I said, an easy fix.

[CMCSAVAGE]

47 minutes ago, Jason said:

Every asshat looking to grief, yes, but a big reason for the shootouts in those areas where it dumps everybody after missions is because of fear. Shoot them so they can't shoot you.

Of course they could just change it so defensive mode is reapplied for this specific situation but defensive mode being default for everyone would just plug all issues like this going forward and it'd be, like I said, an easy fix.

Why people do it isn't the problem, it's the fact that they can. Having defensive as default doesn't change the issue of being in offensive when coming back into freeroam.

[Jason]

13 minutes ago, CMCSAVAGE said:

Why people do it isn't the problem, it's the fact that they can. Having defensive as default doesn't change the issue of being in offensive when coming back into freeroam.

Unless the default when entering free roam is always defensive.

 

What I'm suggesting would remove the remembering your hostility feature, you would be in defensive mode every time you enter free roam no matter what. It'd mean engaging in hostile actions, aka PvP, would essentially require you to opt-out manually through changing it in the quick menu or attacking players, who would already be in defensive and thus have the advantage.

 

[Dark Spark]

Or... you can keep your hand hovering over iron as you saunter clear of the area soon as you spawn back into Freeroam.

[Ghoffman9]

2 hours ago, Dark Spark said:

Or... you can keep your hand hovering over iron as you saunter clear of the area soon as you spawn back into Freeroam.

Not possible when you spawn in the center of a posse and its just one of you versus four of them. Can only shoot one person at a time after all.

[jazzbone]

Defensive as default would work for me.
Why is there even the change to offensive when we do a legendary bounty?
Better yet R* ends this nonsense with a private lobby option.

[AmyStone]

15 hours ago, Jason said:

Easy fix for this: default everybody to defensive mode in free roam. You have to remove defensive mode manually either through the quick menu or by raising your hostility.

 

Betcha no one would complain if they did this.

 

inb4 someone complains

No thanks. Such a faff for people like me who never use defensive. I don't want to have to always disable it when I join a new session.

 

But don't expect rockstar to change this. It's been that way in GTA since for ever. Whenever you load into a new session you lose your passive mode (unless they changed that recently). Rockstar want players to kill each other. You can't take part in any free roam event while you are in passive mode. Daily challenges for RDO always involve a showdown to force players to kill each other.

 

One other thing. Shooting someone once is not griefing. It's annoying but it's not griefing.

Edited October 8, 2019 by AmyStone

[Jason]

2 hours ago, AmyStone said:

You can't take part in any free roam event while you are in passive mode.

Means nothing in regards to RDO as there are no free roam events like that here, but you still get invites to all free mode events in RDO regardless of what mode you're in.

 

2 hours ago, AmyStone said:

Daily challenges for RDO always involve a showdown to force players to kill each other.

For showdowns and free mode events which you have to accept the invite for meaning you know you're entering PvP, yes, there are no PvP daily challenges anymore.

 

It doesn't matter what they did in GTAO, in RDO they've spent a significant amount of time to reduce open world PvP and griefing. They want open world to feel like the wild west (their own words) where you could always get shot, but they don't want it to be a 24/7 shooting gallery. They've even gone on records saying that they know players prefer co-op and that's where their focus is right now.

 

Anyway, my idea was more of a "hot take" idea, the best solution is obviously to reapply defensive mode if it is removed when you enter instanced content.

[netnow66]

3 hours ago, AmyStone said:

No thanks. Such a faff for people like me who never use defensive. I don't want to have to always disable it when I join a new session.

 

But don't expect rockstar to change this. It's been that way in GTA since for ever. Whenever you load into a new session you lose your passive mode (unless they changed that recently). Rockstar want players to kill each other. You can't take part in any free roam event while you are in passive mode. Daily challenges for RDO always involve a showdown to force players to kill each other.

 

One other thing. Shooting someone once is not griefing. It's annoying but it's not griefing.

You're entitled to your opinion but who decided what the number is? Once? My opinion is, if I'm in Defensive mode and fishing...or spawning in...or just generally minding my own business, you're griefing me. I don't care if it's once or more than once.

[AmyStone]

26 minutes ago, Jason said:

Means nothing in regards to RDO as there are no free roam events like that here, but you still get invites to all free mode events in RDO regardless of what mode you're in.

 

For showdowns and free mode events which you have to accept the invite for meaning you know you're entering PvP, yes, there are no PvP daily challenges anymore.

 

It doesn't matter what they did in GTAO, in RDO they've spent a significant amount of time to reduce open world PvP and griefing. They want open world to feel like the wild west (their own words) where you could always get shot, but they don't want it to be a 24/7 shooting gallery. They've even gone on records saying that they know players prefer co-op and that's where their focus is right now.

 

Anyway, my idea was more of a "hot take" idea, the best solution is obviously to reapply defensive mode if it is removed when you enter instanced content.

My main point in my post was about the way rockstar seem to like the idea of forcing players together in situations where they kill each other. Almost as if that kind of activity generates them more money - and maybe it does somehow. Any excuse they can find in both GTA and RDO they want to get people in an offensive mode either by making it look like an accident or bug (with defensive being removed when you re-enter free roam) or making it completely obvious where dailies force everyone to take part in a gun battle. Even defensive mode only goes half way toward what people really want. You can still be killed. They could have quite easily given us a full passive mode where it was impossible to get killed by other players but you can still hunt and fish etc. You can't play a race that doesn't involve death by other players. It just feels to me as though rockstar is run by a bunch of psychopaths who love watching players kill other players. So I'm not trying to justify the removal of defensive and just saying that you shouldn't expect this to change any time soon.

5 minutes ago, netnow66 said:

You're entitled to your opinion but who decided what the number is? Once? My opinion is, if I'm in Defensive mode and fishing...or spawning in...or just generally minding my own business, you're griefing me. I don't care if it's once or more than once.

If someone is in defensive mode then I agree any kill against them would be griefing because they have made it clear they are not interested in fighting. But anyone not in defensive getting killed once is not griefing. If you think it is then anyone that kills anyone in free roam is a griefer and that would be clearly nonsense.

[Lonely-Martin]

Game should just remember what mode we're in once we've chosen and not change unless we change it ourselves.

 

If a defensive player joins a PvP mode, they're just taken out until they leave and when returning to freemode, retain the initial settings. Easy.

3 hours ago, AmyStone said:

But don't expect rockstar to change this. It's been that way in GTA since for ever. Whenever you load into a new session you lose your passive mode (unless they changed that recently).

GTA:O remembers passive mode and has since the upgrade to current gen since release IIRC. (Never needed it on old gen as I stayed invite with nothing forcing us out public).

 

But also, if enough feedback is sent and with R* promoting anti-griefing measures that they have addressed since their arrival, I fully expect R* to address anything if enough thought is behind it to benefit all playstyles.

[Ghoffman9]

1 hour ago, AmyStone said:

My main point in my post was about the way rockstar seem to like the idea of forcing players together in situations where they kill each other. Almost as if that kind of activity generates them more money - and maybe it does somehow. Any excuse they can find in both GTA and RDO they want to get people in an offensive mode either by making it look like an accident or bug (with defensive being removed when you re-enter free roam) or making it completely obvious where dailies force everyone to take part in a gun battle. Even defensive mode only goes half way toward what people really want. You can still be killed. They could have quite easily given us a full passive mode where it was impossible to get killed by other players but you can still hunt and fish etc. You can't play a race that doesn't involve death by other players. It just feels to me as though rockstar is run by a bunch of psychopaths who love watching players kill other players. So I'm not trying to justify the removal of defensive and just saying that you shouldn't expect this to change any time soon.

If someone is in defensive mode then I agree any kill against them would be griefing because they have made it clear they are not interested in fighting. But anyone not in defensive getting killed once is not griefing. If you think it is then anyone that kills anyone in free roam is a griefer and that would be clearly nonsense.

Gotta give Rockstar credit though, they're actually taking steps to stop the PvP griefing with defensive mode and punishments for those who attack people in defensive. Granted its not perfect but its a hell of an improvement compared to GTAO where they're doing jack sh*t about it and encourage it more than anything. Even giving our businesses an option to do sales with PvP turned off, completely removing the PvP element entirely from our businesses at camp. Something unheard of in GTAO where any activity you do for a business gets a target placed on your head from a simple resupply to a full on sale. Even if you do the PvP sale they improved on that further by only alerting players nearby instead of everyone on the map like in GTAO.

 

I am 100% with you on that they're not doing enough but at least for the first time they're doing something about it besides encouraging and rewarding it. Baby steps I suppose.

[Jason]

18 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

My main point in my post was about the way rockstar seem to like the idea of forcing players together in situations where they kill each other. Almost as if that kind of activity generates them more money - and maybe it does somehow.

When people get forced to do stuff in games that they don't want to do they don't get their credit cards out, they do something else like playing another game.

 

And again, RDO doesn't force or encourage people into free roam PvP situations. There are no PvP daily challenges in free roam, something they removed due to player feedback. The only way to get into structured PvP right now is to do showdowns, PvP free mode events, player bounty hunts and then long distance Trader missions or a stranger mission where you may but not always be targeted by other players and you know this going into all of these modes and missions. In general free roam nothing encourages PvP.

 

Even then, assuming they did believe that griefing or open world PvP encourages people to spend money, in RDO you have weapons, pamphlets, ability cards and tonics. Weapons are cheap and a one time purchase, tonics are easy to craft/loot and ability cards cannot be purchased with gold bars. There's only pamphlets which I believe (could be wrong) are level locked and after this update, aren't particularly expensive anyway. Two hours of Collector and you can buy any pamphlet you want. As seen with a lot of the new cosmetics costing gold and the licenses for the Roles, Rockstar aren't looking to monetise things you can buy with cash, they're simply making stuff purchasable with gold bars only.

 

You're right that they could easily add a straight up passive mode but they choose not to, and they've explained this reasoning before in interviews but even if defensive mode was swapped with "passive mode", we'd still have the issue which spawned this thread which is that it gets removed and not reapplied when entering and leaving certain content. My idea was a quick and dirty fix and not one I genuinely expected to happen, again the better solution is to fix the issue at hand.

[netnow66]

34 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

If someone is in defensive mode then I agree any kill against them would be griefing because they have made it clear they are not interested in fighting. But anyone not in defensive getting killed once is not griefing. If you think it is then anyone that kills anyone in free roam is a griefer and that would be clearly nonsense.

Yes, this is where I stand on the subject also. Typically when I get killed by another player, I report to Rockstar and block on PSN using the in game features (sometimes while the player is killing me again if I didn't get the Parley prompt). There have been occasions, however, where I didn't notice when one of the PvP modes didn't change me back to Defensive. In those instances, I can't blame the player--but I do send another bug report to Rockstar about fixing their XXXX game. If I started a PvP mode in Defensive, I should revert there after the mode is over.

[Leftover Pizza]

19 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Not possible when you spawn in the center of a posse and its just one of you versus four of them. Can only shoot one person at a time after all.

I might be the only one, but I see it as an advantage when I get killed and spawn back in away from where you spawn back after the mission is done. I was going away from there anyway and now get a headstart. You don't lose anything when you get killed, but you gain distance instead. Of course, with my luck, I never get killed or hassled in those situations. 

[CosmicBuffalo]

After months of defensive, I just play in offensive...I only switch to create an advantage for me after someone attacks first. Most people will leave you alone, so its not a big deal.

[netnow66]

11 hours ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

After months of defensive, I just play in offensive...I only switch to create an advantage for me after someone attacks first. Most people will leave you alone, so its not a big deal.

Yeah, that's the thing. It's a matter of "advantage." I only PvP in the modes provided and they typically make me Offensive when I'm in them. When I'm in unglitched free roam, I'm always in Defensive (except when I spawn in or Rockstar's ineptitude doesn't put me back in Defensive after I leave one of the PvP modes) because I'm minding my own business. Defensive usually gives me enough of an "advantage" when griefers attack. I typically can escape or kill them (I keep one double barreled equipped with incendiary and one with explosive), then use the lobby hop glitch to easily and seamlessly jump to another server. If I didn't have glitches like the lobby hop, this game would be unplayable to me.

 

I'll agree that most people will leave you alone, just like in real life. But also like in real life, I don't want to be bothered when the occasional griefing XXXhat crosses my path. It's not a big deal to me--but it's a deal. If I can prevent it, I'd be silly not to. So that's why I keep Defensive up when I'm in unglitched free roam.

[Foxwolfe]

On 10/8/2019 at 7:35 AM, AmyStone said:

Even defensive mode only goes half way toward what people really want. You can still be killed. They could have quite easily given us a full passive mode where it was impossible to get killed by other players but you can still hunt and fish etc.

See this is why I like defensive, I can still be killed but it just eliminates that annoying ass auto aim. I hate passive mode in GTAO with a passion, it shuts off too much of the gameplay just to close off one type of interation with other players yet stifles the way you play vs everything else as well.

[Non Funkable Token]

At least isn't as blatant as the spawn after a heist in GTAO. Good thing there is passive mode will be activated if you were in passive before the mission, but still. No passive = rek or get rekt.

[Leftover Pizza]

An easy solution is make players, who just finished a mission and spawn back in a lobby, not be attackable for about 1-2 minutes and give them time to get back in Defensive Mode, if they do so wish.