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warthog911

Physical version?

Recommended Posts

Varys

lol pc nerds still don't have blu-ray drives. PS4 has had one since 2013 lol 😁😁😂😂👌👌🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤣🤣

 

/s

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mwnn

I'll just give you one last example for anyone who remains unconvinced about getting access to source code.

Let's take the classic Max Payne.

Let's say you've gone out and bought it off Steam for £9.99 (ha - what a rip off!) (£2.99 on sale if you're clever!)

You've just spent all that Christmas money and built a nice top of range PC with a Ryzen 3xxx chip.

Only it won't even start due to the old code in the executable.

Either refund it, hex edit it or play it with WINE under Linux (issues like this get fixed on a proper O/S)

 

Alternatively pickup an old console.

Rockstar appear to prioritise consoles now days despite getting their first big hit with Lemmings on the Amiga (DMA DESIGN back then)

I played GTA ONLINE yesterday on a PS3 and I have to say - I thought it was excellent (apart from some loading & lacking mouse aim)

£50 or so a year for PSN is a big downer though; I've seen special offers for £30.

Never realised that consoles had gotten that good.

 

Out of interest here's a few 1080p screen shots of:

Max Payne (WINE + D3D8to9 + DXVK) + widescreen fix

Max Payne 2 (WINE D3D) + widescreen fix

GTA IV (WINE + DXVK) + xliveless

GTA V (Proton)

GTA IV still runs like a one-legged asthmatic compared to the GTA V but I am using a 10 year old Phenom II X4 955.

Edited by mwnn

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Dryspace
2 hours ago, mwnn said:

I definitely agree with that physical, tangible items constitute a form of ownership.

At least for conventional items i.e. car, house, lawnmower, kettle, etc.

I see what you were getting at now. The inability to make the simplest of code changes that can result in a massive increase in playability and enjoyment--or in some cases the ability to even play at all--is an issue I've thought about very often. If I'm not mistaken, your point is that one can't really be said to own a thing if he doesn't have the right to do with it as he pleases--if he doesn't have control as well as possession--which makes sense.

 

But here's the thing: As you pointed out, there is a difference between source code and an executable, and as far as I'm aware, each has its own legal protection. Now let's say that I own a disc copy of a game, and I also have no legal restrictions regarding the information on the disc. In this case, are not the aforementioned conditions satisfied? I possess something with which I can legally do anything I want, without restriction.

 

I don't have access to the source code, it's true...but is this not the same thing as possessing a display, or a microchip, without having access to the schematics? Or possessing Chinese take-out without having access to the recipe? In this situation, one is free to do all that he's able to with his possession--but is the creator obligated to help him by divulging information that wasn't part of the purchase?

 

My original issue was not being sure that ownership is the right term when referring to information itself, and not the rights to information. If I own a copy of a game on disc, and one day find out that the code on the disc is no longer legally protected, do I now own the code as well? Does everyone own it? It seems to me that if everyone owns a thing, nobody owns it. But that may just be pedantry...

 

2 hours ago, mwnn said:

Unless it's "commercially viable" Rockstar will never do it...

You're right, but I think it's actually worse than that: The big AAA companies don't have commercial viability as their prerequisite, but rather commercial, err...sk-...sky-highability....🤔

 

It's not enough to be profitable. Forget the measly 3% - 20% profit margin that many industries make do with. No, an expenditure must expect to be doubled at the least to even consider lifting a finger. In an effort to balance the risk inherent to the production of information, I understand the desire to generate a higher return than is otherwise acceptable, but this goes way beyond that.

 

But I'm convinced it's not only relative profit but absolute profit. There are so many things that many of the AAA companies could do that would be great for gamers and great for video gaming, and would have no problem paying for themselves and then some. But because the principals aren't gamers and don't care a thing for video games per se, such efforts are never considered. Even if they make perfect financial sense they aren't considered because even if the profit margin is 1,000%, the dollar amount they would generate is a couple orders of magnitude beneath their radar.

 

2 hours ago, mwnn said:

Copyright of 90+ years or whatever it is seems absurd.

Yes, it is.

 

2 hours ago, mwnn said:

On a separate note - I'm pretty happy that Volition have found the source code to Saints Row 2 and have pledged to fix it on the PC for free - how about that for customer service.

Wow--I hadn't heard about that. I have a boxed copy of SR2 here on my shelf that I picked at Half Price Books. I never bothered opening it because of the severe issues I read about.

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mwnn
4 hours ago, Dryspace said:

Wow--I hadn't heard about that. I have a boxed copy of SR2 here on my shelf that I picked at Half Price Books. I never bothered opening it because of the severe issues I read about.

I'd get that registered on your Steam account ASAP.

They've said Saints Row 2 Remastered will be a separate entry in your library.

I expect they'll remove the old release and bump up the price; but that shouldn't affect anyone with an old retail key.

Let's hope they don't f**k it up (again)

 

Just out of interest here's a list of games which can be activated from old retail copies:

http://web.archive.org/web/20160505042257/https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7480-WUSF-3601

I got quite a few on that page just by looking at listings on eBay! 😛

A lot of them are old Games For Windows Live titles. There's a few extra ones that aren't mentioned like Terraria Collectors Edition.

Sadly you can't do GTA IV; not sure why it's on that list. Unless you buy it from Fanatical, Gamesplanet, etc and get a Steam key.

The old FPS Prey (2006) is no longer sold on Steam but that's a good one to get - if you can find it. I got a sealed copy for £3.50.

Always a chance a used one has already been done.

 

Edited by mwnn

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Dryspace
20 hours ago, mwnn said:

They've said Saints Row 2 Remastered...

Ohhhhh...that's what you mean. :yawn:

 

In other words they're not fixing the PC version for free--they're just porting the game to newer consoles, and then toss-porting that new console version right back over to the PC, as a port of a port--just like all so-called "remastered" games.**

 

The reason they're not charging existing PC customers is the usual one: For PC users, there's little or nothing objectively improved about the experience beside possible bug fixes (And as far as that, color me skeptical, because I've never yet seen a "remastered" game with real bug fixes), and thus they know they can't get away with charging existing PC customers without righteous backlash. If they thought they could, believe me--they would.

 

But make no mistake--if they didn't think they could make some money selling the PC port of the new console version to those who don't have the game, existing PC customers would get nothing at all.

 

As far as "How about that for customer service", I would ask the same question: They collected money for the PC version but so far have refused to deliver a working product for ten years.

 

How about that for customer service?

 

** Unlike the terms 'remake' or 'reboot', which refer to something logical, calling a game 'remastered' is nothing but meaningless marketing fluff. Games aren't mastered; therefore they can't be re-mastered. Mastering is a process that applies to recorded media--audio and video. It has nothing to do with programming and video games, except of course for any audio/video that is used in the game.

 

20 hours ago, mwnn said:

The old FPS Prey (2006) is no longer sold on Steam but that's a good one to get - if you can find it.

 

Yeah, I found a used but perfect boxed copy at Half Price Books a few years ago for $4.99 USD.

 

Unfortunately I was disappointed with the gameplay and

Spoiler

the aesthetics of the alien ship, and not long after being taken up

 

...I stopped playing. I was getting really great vibes at the beginning, too, because it starts just the way I like: No combat, no action, just a low-key highly-interactive opportunity to establish the atmosphere and setting. When the AAA PC FPS went extinct, that approach went along with it. 🙁

 

I always like to give a game a second try, which hopefully I'll do sooner than later.

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Lioshenka
On 12/31/2019 at 12:17 PM, Varys said:

lol pc nerds still don't have blu-ray drives. PS4 has had one since 2013 lol 😁😁😂😂👌👌🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤣🤣

Can you Remote Desktop from PS4 to your office PC to work remotely on dual monitor set up? PCs have been able to do this for years.

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RedIndianRobin
4 hours ago, Lioshenka said:

Can you Remote Desktop from PS4 to your office PC to work remotely on dual monitor set up? PCs have been able to do this for years.

You missed the /s at his post 😛 

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RuskiChleb
9 hours ago, Lioshenka said:

Can you Remote Desktop from PS4 to your office PC to work remotely on dual monitor set up? PCs have been able to do this for years.

yeah so what man ps5 and xbox will have ssd and rtx 2080 ti power for 500 bucks and ps4 was better than 1000$ pc so go cry u pc nerd

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Lioshenka
1 hour ago, RuskiChleb said:

yeah so what man ps5 and xbox will have ssd and rtx 2080 ti power for 500 bucks and ps4 was better than 1000$ pc so go cry u pc nerd

What the point of paying 500 bucks if you can't Remote Desktop from PS5 to your office PC to work remotely on a dual monitor set up? PCs have been able to do this for years.

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RuskiChleb
1 minute ago, Lioshenka said:

What the point of paying 500 bucks if you can't Remote Desktop from PS5 to your office PC to work remotely on a dual monitor set up? PCs have been able to do this for years.

yeah but can u play uncharted? i win, bye bye

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Lioshenka
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, RuskiChleb said:

yeah but can u play uncharted? i win, bye bye

I bought PS2 for £20 and can play San Andreas, and that's all that matters; and my £70 PC can do the rest. I win.

Edited by Lioshenka

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RuskiChleb
22 minutes ago, Lioshenka said:

I bought PS2 for £20 and can play San Andreas, and that's all that matters; and my £70 PC can do the rest. I win.

wtf does that matter, refer to my original post

and no, ur 70 pc cant play uncharted, not only that but a 70 pounds pc cant play any new game

like wtf m8, here i am, telling yall that new consoles will have 2000$ pc performance for 500$ and there here comes u "wElL i BoUgHt PsTwO fOr TwEnTy PoUnDs AnD pLaY gTa Sa AnD tHe rEsT cAn Do My 70 pOuNdS pC" like ok, but what does it matter and why do i care? not only ur lying, 70 pounds pc cant do sh*t my man

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Lioshenka
1 hour ago, RuskiChleb said:

wtf does that matter, refer to my original post

and no, ur 70 pc cant play uncharted, not only that but a 70 pounds pc cant play any new game

like wtf m8, here i am, telling yall that new consoles will have 2000$ pc performance for 500$ and there here comes u "wElL i BoUgHt PsTwO fOr TwEnTy PoUnDs AnD pLaY gTa Sa AnD tHe rEsT cAn Do My 70 pOuNdS pC" like ok, but what does it matter and why do i care? not only ur lying, 70 pounds pc cant do sh*t my man

Someone call the archeologists, here we have a wonderfully preserved specimen of a 2008 console fanboy!

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Arthur Bell

What specs are on your 70 pound PC anyway? I'm honestly curious. If you can RDP into a gaming setup, for the most part it should handle just fine as long as the internet connection is strong and you don't have too much latency with the controls.

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RuskiChleb
26 minutes ago, Lioshenka said:

Someone call the archeologists, here we have a wonderfully preserved specimen of a 2008 console fanboy!

these are straight facts, not a console fanboy

but i prefer consoles beacuse they are better right now, maybe in the future it will change 

 

 

i win bye-bye

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Lioshenka
5 minutes ago, RuskiChleb said:

but i prefer consoles beacuse they are better

 

Ahaha lol

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Lioshenka
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Arthur Bell said:

What specs are on your 70 pound PC anyway? I'm honestly curious. If you can RDP into a gaming setup, for the most part it should handle just fine as long as the internet connection is strong and you don't have too much latency with the controls.

It was a 5 years old second-hand HP box, which I stripped and put into an older bigger case, added a graphics card and an SSD from my old PC and bought a new BeQuiet PSU (so I guess that's another £60 for the PSU, though I could have carried on using my old noisy one). The specs of this newly emerged Frankenstein monster are:

 

HP ProDesk G2 400 MT INTEL i5 4590s CPU, 8GB RAM, 500GB SSD with NVidia GTX 660 2Gb graphics card with dual 20.5" Dell monitors.

 

It runs all GTAs without any problems, as well as all Mafias and the World of Tanks and to be honest I don't anticipate myself buying any new games in the next 10 years or so, so will probably just get another second-hand box once this one starts struggling in about 5 years' time. I was keen on the RDR2 at one point (which my PC would have struggled with), even considered clearing some space on my SSD for it, but since it's a download only I gave up on the idea.

Edited by Lioshenka

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RuskiChleb
1 hour ago, Lioshenka said:

It was a 5 years old second-hand HP box, which I stripped and put into an older bigger case, added a graphics card and an SSD from my old PC and bought a new BeQuiet PSU (so I guess that's another £60 for the PSU, though I could have carried on using my old noisy one). The specs of this newly emerged Frankenstein monster are:

 

HP ProDesk G2 400 MT INTEL i5 4590s CPU, 8GB RAM, 500GB SSD with NVidia GTX 660 2Gb graphics card with dual 20.5" Dell monitors.

 

It runs all GTAs without any problems, as well as all Mafias and the World of Tanks and to be honest I don't anticipate myself buying any new games in the next 10 years or so, so will probably just get another second-hand box once this one starts struggling in about 5 years' time. I was keen on the RDR2 at one point (which my PC would have struggled with), even considered clearing some space on my SSD for it, but since it's a download only I gave up on the idea.

nice, so u didnt paid 70 pounds for it, nice lying - u were lying about pc, u were lying about consoles being worse - what else are u lying about? consoles are the best

 

i dont have time for your my brutha, i go watch mrbossftw beacuse he respect us - the console players unlike u (like why no respect? i mean, i dont have anything against pc, they are worse but u do u man) and he has great content about rockstar games

 

i win bye-bye

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Dryspace
2 hours ago, RuskiChleb said:

like wtf m8, here i am, telling yall that new consoles will have 2000$ pc performance for 500$

Oooookay.....hold on here! I can't let this slide. 🤨 You're comparing a piece of HW that supposedly releases at the end of 2020 with HW from 2018. The X Series will release concurrently with the 30 Series, not the 20 Series.

 

For one, it's not 2080 Ti performance--the 2-year-old 2080 Ti is 17% faster. Even assuming that the 3080 Ti will be only 30% faster (which is very unlikely), the fastest gaming GPU will be 1.5 times faster than the X Series at launch. If the 3080 Ti is a 45% improvement (which is still less than the 10 Series was over the 9 Series), it will be 1.7 times faster than the X Series at launch. This means that at launch, a 2070 Super-level GPU will at bare minimum match the performance of the X Series.

 

At launch. So even if GPU generations continue at ~2 year intervals instead of the traditional 14-month interval, only half-way into the X Series' lifecycle the fastest gaming GPU will be at minimum 2.5 times faster, and probably closer to 3.6 times faster (or more). Just four years after launch, the X Series will be soundly beat by a GTX 1660-level card.

 

This is, of course, only comparing theoretical performance, and only the GPU. While I believe the one truly impressive aspect of the X Series is the alleged throughput of the storage system, it is still held back by an inadequate CPU at launch (while supposedly 4x faster than the XB1--which is good--it still doesn't match a 7-year-old 4770K).

 

If the only difference between a PC and a console were price/performance ratio, I would recommend a console to anyone. But contrary to what you claim, for gaming consoles have not been better than a PC for over 20 years. It's the full top-to-bottom control that Big Console has over the entire gaming experience that is bad for gaming. I'm not going to list all of the facts, as I may have done so elsewhere on this site. I don't think console gaming should die, because there is a portion of gamers who can't or won't use PCs. But the console domination of AAA gaming that occurred around 2008 has been bad for technical innovation and bad for gameplay. A portion of console gamers need to move on to PC in order to upset the balance so that we can get AAA console games AND AAA games designed for the open platform of PC again.

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undergroundvicious

What is this nonsense on this topic? 

 

Has this become a kindergarten? Stay focused on the thread's subject.

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RuskiChleb

just sayin

consoles r better

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Dryspace
On 12/31/2019 at 5:45 AM, mwnn said:

Rockstar appear to prioritise consoles now days despite getting their first big hit with Lemmings on the Amiga (DMA DESIGN back then)

WHOA...I don't know how I missed this post. Lemmings? That was (is) a superb example of quality gameplay design. That was the same guys who developed the GTA games?

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RedIndianRobin

sh*t went 0 to 100 real quick here WTF? 

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ArthurMorganRDR

What a nice conversation it has been in here, now i'm happy and jumping up and down on my chair with a huge smile on my face.

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Dryspace
8 hours ago, ArthurMorganRDR said:

...now i'm happy and jumping up and down on my chair with a huge smile on my face.

Katie Holmes is amazing, isn't she?

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