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warthog911

Physical version?

Recommended Posts

Mainline421
2 minutes ago, roe said:

 

Obviously not true seeing as it clearly says "Código digital incluido.  El juego no incluye disco físico."  Now I don't speak Spanish but even I can work out what that means.

"The box contains a download code." Not ideal but better than nothing.

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gonnaenodaethat

Ah so Take Two knocked back the USB options. 

 

It's always aw aboot the Benjamin's whae those guys

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  • fir thi bairns 4

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Dryspace
2 hours ago, Mainline421 said:

I know most on this forum won't care at this point, but physcial copies confirmed for 5 December!

Come on! You say "physical copies" are confirmed, and yet the very page you link states "It does not carry a physical CD with the game".

 

And after you done gone and got me all excited!

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Mainline421
17 hours ago, Dryspace said:

Come on! You say "physical copies" are confirmed, and yet the very page you link states "It does not carry a physical CD with the game".

 

And after you done gone and got me all excited!

Dude as much as I hate the lack of disks (and the many hours of downloading to come) these are the physical copies, and GAME coined that term " La edición física" is "The physical edition" The UK pre-order page makes this clear in plain English. It's a real shame but as I found out on this thread many publishers have apparently done that this year and it's still much better than nothing! And will still be pre-ordering.

Edited by Mainline421

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ViperDG

This game is 112 GB. NO way is would come on regular DVDs. That's like 25 single layer and 14 double layer dvds. Even on Bluray it would take  a couple of them. And most people do not Blueray player sin there PC. Infact most new PCs don't have even A DVD player any more. Physical media is pretty much a thing of the past.

Edited by ViperDG

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Kubigz

I bought my pc last year and purposely skipped any disc reader. I believe there are thousands of guys like me.

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roe
2 hours ago, Mainline421 said:

Dude as much as I hate the lack of disks (and the many hours of downloading to come) these are the physical copies, and GAME coined that term " La edición física" is "The physical edition" The UK pre-order page makes this clear in plain English. It's a real shame but as I found out on this thread many publishers have apparently done that this year and it's still much better than nothing! And will still be pre-ordering.

A download code on a piece of card is not a physical edition of a game.

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gonnaenodaethat
7 minutes ago, roe said:

A download code on a piece of card is not a physical edition of a game.

Agree. 

 

As said before they had thi option on thi table tae put it oot on a USB stick - wid only hae cost them aboot a fiver tops. 

 

 

 

 

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McGuinness45
1 hour ago, Gwozdek said:

I bought my pc last year and purposely skipped any disc reader. I believe there are thousands of guys like me.

I've got a DVD and a Bluray player in my PC case that I built 5 years ago. I basically have never used them.

 

Edited by McGuinness45

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Dryspace
3 hours ago, Mainline421 said:

Dude...these are the physical copies, and GAME coined that term " La edición física" is "The physical edition" The UK pre-order page makes this clear in plain English.

'Physical copy' refers to--and has always referred to--a copy of the game. Not to a copy of the code to access the game, and not to a piece of cardboard or plastic, lol. Have you heard the term 'boxed copy'? That exemplifies the fact that the box and the copy are two different things.

If I'm not misunderstanding you, you're saying that Such-And-Such seller calls it a physical edition, therefore it is a physical copy. I'm afraid that's not how it works.

 

3 hours ago, Mainline421 said:

It's a real shame but as I found out on this thread many publishers have apparently done that this year and it's still much better than nothing! And will still be pre-ordering.

I don't underst--....What's better than nothing? You're saying that getting a download code is better than getting no game at all? Well, obviously, but that's not the alternative in question. Receiving a box with nothing in it but a code that allows one to download a game is no different than just downloading a game, except it involves a needless hassle.

I've written before about how the industry screwed PC users regarding Blu-rays, so I understand if a game isn't distributed that way (though there should no longer be any licensing fees, so the cost of production and shipping should be miniscule), they could distribute games on a cheap USB stick. @gonnaenodaethat said that such a stick should cost no more than $5, but I believe that if sourced in a quantity of 100,000+, the wholesale cost could be as little as a couple of bucks, maybe less. Remember, high quality isn't necessary.

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Dryspace
1 hour ago, McGuinness45 said:

I've got a DVD and a Bluray player in my PC case that I built 5 years ago. I basically have never used them.

I use my DVD player all the time, to install and play my collection of games. The only reason I'm even on this site is because I decided to take a chance on GTAV, which I purchased at Target, and which I installed from 7 DVDs.

 

As far as a Blu-ray player, the reason I never put one in my PC is that 1) There was never a game that required one, and 2) The prices never got low enough. And a big reason for this is that, unlike DVD drives, no one ever released any Blu-ray readers--only writers.

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Mainline421

Since I know a lot of people were going to get physical then changed their minds with the delay and I'm now stuck waiting hours for it to download (If only there was some sort of physical storage they could put in the box ey)  This is what you get in the physical version:

 

R9egDNwg.jpg

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IbYgqb0.png

 

They guy at the checkout even asked if I wanted to "protect the Disk for £1." Anyone who skipped this isn't missing much admittedly.

Edited by Mainline421
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spoonman039

well, that was expected. I mean, we know installing 20 dvds would be a pain.

..and we can dream about super deluxe edition with a cheap ssd in it 😂

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Yoona

Not even a map? What's the point then?

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Rusev
1 hour ago, Mainline421 said:

This is what you get in the physical version

What a waste...

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Jutland

No point to this at all, without the map.

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Mainline421
3 hours ago, Yoona said:

Not even a map? What's the point then?

Unfortunately not surprisingly. Quite disappointed with that tbh so ordered the map on Ebay for virtually nothing with free delivery to put in it myself.

2 hours ago, Jutland said:

No point to this at all, without the map.

The point is to maximise sale for T2 obviously, encouraging impulse buys and also free advertising. Useful for people purchasing as a present, wanting to pay cash etc. and I still prefer having this to absolutely nothing physical, it's still something to put with my physical games complete with the "new game smell."

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Dryspace
20 hours ago, Mainline421 said:

Since I know a lot of people were going to get physical...

Oh, I'ma get physical...

 

Seriously, though...this isn't even a physical version, because 'physical' refers to the game data being delivered in a physical manner--a copy of the code on a physical medium.

 

Apparently now it refers to the activation code being delivered in a physical manner. Those bastages...

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RedIndianRobin
12 hours ago, Dryspace said:

Oh, I'ma get physical...

 

Seriously, though...this isn't even a physical version, because 'physical' refers to the game data being delivered in a physical manner--a copy of the code on a physical medium.

 

Apparently now it refers to the activation code being delivered in a physical manner. Those bastages...

The days of physical discs are long gone. With game data being huge and internet getting cheap with higher speeds day by day, physical game disc days have come to an end.

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Dryspace
12 hours ago, RedIndianRobin said:

The days of physical discs are long gone. With game data being huge and internet getting cheap with higher speeds day by day, physical game disc days have come to an end.

I was referring to the fact that the term 'physical copy' is ridiculously being used to mean something that it's never meant before, that's all. 'Copy', as in 'Boxed copy', 'Physical copy', etc. has always referred to a copy of the game--not an activation code. Surely you agree that a person who's not as knowledgable about the state of the industry as we are can be excused for believing that 'Physical copy' means 'Physical copy'?

 

I don't expect games for PC to be released on discs anymore, but it has nothing to do with game data. If publishers had adopted Blu-ray, PC users would have purchased Blu-ray drives just like they purchased DVD-Rom and CD-Rom drives. Three discs (150GB) would suffice for installation sizes of up to ~225GB, which we're not at yet. Five discs would accomodate installation sizes of up to ~375GB.

 

Beside the fact that the absence of Blu-ray releases has resulted in an absence of Blu-ray drives, there are reasons that developers prefer online distribution, such as DRM, greater overall control, and the ability to release unfinished games based on the promise of patches.

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Rusev
1 hour ago, Dryspace said:

the ability to release unfinished games based on the promise of patches

giphy.gif

 

My personal favourite "ability".

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dieseltech20

Physical items means a loss in profits so they have been eliminated. 
 

When DVD/Disc media came out I always wondered what the next evolution would be. Never expected the answer to be NOTHING. 

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Dryspace
6 hours ago, dieseltech20 said:

When DVD/Disc media came out I always wondered what the next evolution would be. Never expected the answer to be NOTHING. 

Lol, I know what you mean, imagining us popping our tiny little holo-cubes into our computers.

 

F#%! me was I waaay off on that one.

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Mainline421
On 12/7/2019 at 3:06 AM, RedIndianRobin said:

The days of physical discs are long gone. With game data being huge and internet getting cheap with higher speeds day by day, physical game disc days have come to an end.

That's not true at all, there are games yet to be released that will have disks on PC and I have plenty of recent games with them too. Data size being used as an excuse doesn't make sense because that's when they should remain relevant. I can download 8GBs no problem but games like RDR2 take half the afternoon and most of the evening for me (over 24 hours for others) here physical storage would be much more convenient.

Edited by Mainline421
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Dryspace
1 hour ago, Mainline421 said:

Data size being used to an excuse doesn't make sense because that's when they should remain relevant.

@Mainline421 is right. There's also another angle I've mentioned before:

 

Even though CD Projekt RED has outright proved that DRM is unnecessary when a company is honest about making good games, the point is that the rest of the industry thinks piracy is a problem (or at least has a problem with being "screwed out of" even one potential cent).

 

By keeping install sizes as large as possible within reason--and not just copying over abysmal textures designed for 1280x720 at 10 foot viewing distances--I believe piracy would have been discouraged. How many would break down and buy a game when staring at a 24 hour download for which there is no guarantee it will even work--or not infect their PC with a virus du jour? Remember, we're talking about from ~10 years ago until now, when download speeds were much lower.

 

Illicit downloads would have decreased significantly, and companies could have convinced themselves that it actually mattered (Seriously--what kind of person pulls his hair out because he posted only a 300% profit margin instead of a hypothetical 320%? Publicly-traded companies are fine for commodities, but for video games...).

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RedIndianRobin
8 hours ago, Mainline421 said:

That's not true at all, there are games yet to be released that will have disks on PC and I have plenty of recent games with them too. Data size being used to an excuse doesn't make sense because that's when they should remain relevant. I can download 8GBs no problem but games like RDR2 take half the afternoon and most of the evening for me (over 24 hours for others) here physical storage would be much more convenient.

I can understand where you're coming from but honestly for the vast majority, digital is much more convenient. For example, installing GTA V via the 7 discs(I did buy physical copy back then for the goodies) takes close to 2 hours for me. And for that I had to purchase an external DVD reader/writer. Whereas downloading GTA V takes me no more than 30 minutes. 

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Dryspace
17 hours ago, RedIndianRobin said:

...installing GTA V via the 7 discs(I did buy physical copy back then for the goodies) takes close to 2 hours for me. Whereas downloading GTA V takes me no more than 30 minutes.

I have to point out, though, that your experience wasn't a limitation of physical distribution.

 

I.e. your installation was slow because you were using DVDs, and maybe--since my install time for GTA V was far quicker--your external drive was rather slow. If Blu-rays had been adopted originally, your installation time would have been a fraction of that, as their transfer rate is much faster than DVD.

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mwnn

It was never gonna come on a disc, unfortunately.

GTA V took me about 3 three hours to acquire through Steam @ ~9MB/sec.

The stupid launcher means I've even got to be online just to start it.

 

Most PC's now days don't even have optical drives, let alone blu ray drives.

Gaming has gone the way of music / film / tv streaming.

People have traded convenience for rights.

I'm lucky enough to have a grabbed a Libredrive ASUS BW-16D1HT so I can rip all sorts with it - including 4K bluray discs.

 

If the game is currently 120GB you're looking at:

3 BD-R DL (Dual Layer) or 5 BD-R (Single Layer)

15 DVD9 or 27 DVD5

 

Sadly it looks like it's gonna get far worse than not even having a disc or a download!

I see they've stuck RDR2 on Google Stadia.

The whole game is up there in the cloud and you're just playing an instance of it in a web browser.

No expensive hardware required.

This takes up back to the 1960's where a central computer held all the data and dumb terminals connected to it.

In time - once internet connections improve - that'll wipe out consoles & Steam-type services.

Quite clever really - it'll kill off piracy too.

 

The only reason they've stuck the code inside a box is to grab a few "physical" sales from people who don't shop online.

A 10p amaray case with a piece of cardboard/plastic inside - not even a printed manual.

Ultimately it's only the source code being free which grants you real ownership.

You think Rockstar might've given us the code to GTA & GTA2 at least; id software did with Doom, Quake, etc 😢

Edited by mwnn
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Dryspace

@mwnn Good post. A couple thoughts:

 

Quote

People have traded convenience for rights.

...

I see they've stuck RDR2 on Google Stadia.

The whole game is up there in the cloud and you're just playing an instance of it in a web browser.

No expensive hardware required.

Exactly! No expensive hardware required. One Size Fits All. The People's Experience for the People! Also, the freedom of driving your own vehicle is expensive. I can't wait until Big Brother delivers me from that headache.

 

I really, really want to think that most people aren't so ignorant not to understand how far backward this paradigm would put the gamer's immersion and overall user experience. Consoles would seem like a wonderland of configurability in comparison. And can you imagine the entire video game industry under the thumb of an outfit like Google or Facebook? The thought alone makes me want to start sending Sony and MS cards on Valentine's day.

 

Quote

Ultimately it's only the source code being free which grants you real ownership.

/*

I have to disagree on this. If the source code is actually free, then practically speaking there's no ownership at all, for anyone. Information can't be owned, as it doesn't actually exist like matter and energy do. It can only be artificially protected.

 

My view is that for games, the only real ownership is a physical copy of code, in which possession is tied to a key rather than an online account. This is because, while one does not own the rights to the code (i.e. the artificial protection), he does own a copy of the code which is physical property, and can give away, sell, or burn that property as he sees fit.

*/

EDIT: I'm not sure the previous point is as valid as I had thought, as it depends on what is meant by 'ownership'. Since I'm too tired to think right now, I'll just say that an embedded physical copy, whether or not the source code is free, is also real ownership, as it involves physical possession and the right of transferral.

Edited by Dryspace
Modification
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mwnn
On 12/30/2019 at 2:21 AM, Dryspace said:

 

I definitely agree with that physical, tangible items constitute a form of ownership.

At least for conventional items i.e. car, house, lawnmower, kettle, etc.

 

The only snag is that software is compiled into it's final form i.e. binary blob / executable from source code - C, C++, Python, etc.

Without having the source code you can't make any changes or improvements as technology changes over time.

You only have to look at GTA 1-4 and see how broken they are - they could all be fixed and enhanced by hobbyists.

You could even run them on any piece of hardware/system you like - PC, Playstation, Rasp Pi, Windows, Linux, OSX, etc.

 

Without hacks like SilentPatch and the clever people that make them - we'd all be completely knackered.

It could be so much better if SilentSergey and others had access to the original code.

Unless it's "commercially viable" Rockstar will never do it - and even then they can't get it right half the time i.e. GTA Android ports.

 

The trouble with games and technology in general is that's it's a throwaway product.

I've always thought they should be compelled to release the source code after a period of time - say 15 years or even 20.

Copyright of 90+ years or whatever it is seems absurd. 

Releasing the code wouldn't prevent them from still selling the game assets through Steam, PSN, etc.

If anything getting an updated, fixed version of a game maintained by hobbyists is all the more reason for people to keep buying it.

Probably won't ever happen though - lawyers, licensing and other secretive bullsh*t. 

 

Fortunately we've got some clever people out that bringing us open source remakes of games like XCOM, DIABLOSTALKER, SYSTEM SHOCK, and more...

I wish I could be one of them. Plus we've got emulation of older consoles with Retroarch, Dolphin, MAME, etc.

I've been playing games since the ZX Spectrum and Commodore Amiga 500+; so I've seen this stuff happen over and over.

On a separate note - I'm pretty happy that Volition have found the source code to Saints Row 2 and have pledged to fix it on the PC for free - how about that for customer service.

Edited by mwnn
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