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djb204

New Combat System is too fast.

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djb204

It doesn’t feel or look like a gunfight from the Wild West anymore. The original system felt like a gunfight scene from a western. This new system feels like a fast paste competitive shooter. Don’t get me wrong, fast paste shooters are fun, but this change has hindered the Wild West gunfight experience. This fast paste movement change is a turn off. It doesn’t feel like a Wild West experience as much as it did prior. 

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Ghoffman9

One reason this was done is to make kills on players via bodyshots more viable by speeding up how quickly you cock the gun as well as reloading. Their other goal was making your character more responsive so it does not feel like you're piloting a tank while shooting on the move. Before the change the process was so slow, headshots were the go to kill method cause it was way faster kill method and was absolutely necessary to win fights.

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djb204
8 minutes ago, Ghoffman9 said:

One reason this was done is to make kills on players via bodyshots more viable by speeding up how quickly you cock the gun as well as reloading. Their other goal was making your character more responsive so it does not feel like you're piloting a tank while shooting on the move. Before the change the process was so slow, headshots were the go to kill method cause it was way faster kill method and was absolutely necessary to win fights.

I understand that, but it just spoils what the gun fights use to be. They should have just got rid of auto lock on and went straight free aim without the dead eye target painting. That would have maintained the realistic gunfight presentation while at the same time reducing headshots drastically.

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Pocket Fox

I like it :<

 

But some do not. 

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D T

I wish it was slowed down just a bit. I know it was pretty bad before, but now it legit feels like you're playing the scout from TF2. The animations don't even match the speed you're moving anymore either.

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djb204

It’s so Arcady now. I don’t know how else to describe it. It’s way too fast and unrealistic. You can move side to side in the blink of an eye. Why are Rockstar so hell bent on maintaining this lock-on auto-aim design? The sacrifices they are making just to keep this system intact could end up doing more damage then good. I was so hyped when I launched this update, but when I engaged my first bounty target and saw my overweight elderly gunfighter dodge bullets like Neo from The Matrix by moving side to side, my instant reaction was “WTF did Rockstar do?” 

Edited by djb204

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Ghoffman9

The problem is they put themselves in a corner with the ability cards. To nerf headshots would also require the removal of a few ability cards with the goal of headshot protection, which I think they really  don't want to do. With that off the table they had to buff the viability of body shots in some other way, this was what they came up with. The ability cards were the worst thing they could have added, it complicates things and creates a Rock, Paper, Scissors element to PvP that should not be there.

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djb204
12 minutes ago, Ghoffman9 said:

The problem is they put themselves in a corner with the ability cards. To nerf headshots would also require the removal of a few ability cards with the goal of headshot protection, which I think they really  don't want to do. With that off the table they had to buff the viability of body shots in some other way, this was what they came up with. The ability cards were the worst thing they could have added, it complicates things and creates a Rock, Paper, Scissors element to PvP that should not be there.

I agree. The game and PvP would be so much simpler and enjoyable if they just did-away with ability cards. I have friends that I use to game online with religiously on the first Red Dead. We were all hyped when RDR2 came out, but a lot of the new elements (like ability cards) pushed a few of them away. Sucks really because these guys were online in the first game all the time.

Edited by djb204

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ThaBirdCoot

They could tone it down slightly and it would be, okay I guess ? But the strafing movement... oh my god I feel like all the cocaine gum finally turned my char into some crazy arse juiced up coke head Tony Montana on his last stand.

 

Not feeling it right now, gunplay is very much a joke now against npc's you just drop them like flies and it feels unrewarding. Pvp a cruel joke. As if that needed any more hatred from me. I find it better shooting things from horseback currently, at least that isn't sped up so much in terms of movement. 

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djb204

Maybe Rockstar should separate the two combat systems? Example:

 

- Free Roam should retain original and more natural realistic speed. This new high speed movements, especially strafing (as stated above) is ridiculous against NPCs. I completely agree with that 100%.

 

- PvP modes can keep this Arcady fast paced run and gun if it fixes those headshot issues. Its still too fast for this game’s PvP IMO, but free roam doesn’t need this.

 

These changes stemmed from complaints regarding headshots in PvP right? I bet around 95% of those complaints stemmed from a PvP mode experience. These changes might be good for PvP competitive game modes, but they are spilling into free roam in a negative way. 

Edited by djb204

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GTAFanClub

I actually liked how it was before and I like the way it is now. But if I really had a choice, I would choose the way it is now because it just feels smoother. I like the slow movement for the Singleplayer but for an Online mode, I want it to be fast especially when I'm trying to make money.

 

But for the people that like realism, there should be an option to go back to slow looting.

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éX-Driver

I love the sped-up gunfiring and the more responsive controls, but I detest the sped-up reloading and lightness the characters have. All they had to do was remove the input lag [which they did] and speed up the cocking animations and it would’ve been perfect. Honestly, they should’ve slowed down the reloading animations. Already a bit ridiculous to begin with.

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Danish Crusader

I have said it before, I'll say it here and I'll continue saying it elsewhere.

These new controls feel like an Arcade Shooter, not a like Red Dead Redemption controls at all.

 

They are bad, too fast, and way to many animations were gutted...

I hate everything about the new animations.

 

And every single day, I will send Rockstar a feedback about how much I hate these new controls and wish for the old ones to return.

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Almostnasty

Strafing while ADS looks and feels completely broken. The ADS movements are now way closer to someone spamming a Marksman Rifle in GTA Online. Aside from the quicker reloads, the combat update feels pretty regressive IMO.

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Clickalot
5 hours ago, djb204 said:

It doesn’t feel or look like a gunfight from the Wild West anymore. The original system felt like a gunfight scene from a western. This new system feels like a fast paste competitive shooter. Don’t get me wrong, fast paste shooters are fun, but this change has hindered the Wild West gunfight experience. This fast paste movement change is a turn off. It doesn’t feel like a Wild West experience as much as it did prior. 

Could not said it better
 

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Duhillestpunk

I hadn’t noticed. Then again... I haven’t played for a while. But regardless that sucks they changed the combat. I get it, people want fast gameplay not “oh let me calculate the distance I am at and how my shots will hit my target”.

 

Rockstar should’ve made another lobby for free aim, as well as realistic shooting. Just makes sense.

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RyuNova

RDO has bled players since its sh*t launch. R* has had to cater to the casuals. The same people that complained that a 36 year old hard drinking and hard smoking Cowboy in the late eighteen hundreds felt slow and sluggish (You know who you are) are the same people who complained about it Online.

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TiberiusMcQueen

People that want fast gameplay should play GTA, not bitch about it to Rockstar in a WESTERN game. Reloading should take time, Drawing a rifle or shotgun from your back should take time, instead it's so fast that the guns on our back straight up teleport into our hands and the bullets magically go into our guns, those animations were already far too fast before the update, and they made it worse yet again. I want an RDO that feels like RDR2, not an RDO that feels like GTAO. The only change I like is them removing the delay between pushing the stick and moving, everything else is just awful. movement is overly sensitive. barely even moving the control stick takes you from not moving at all to powerwalking and it looks awkward as hell. I want the old controls back.

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Leftover Pizza

For freeroam, the current moving system is a dream so far. Skinning is quicker, no more 3 seconds idle time when storing something on your horse, faster walking pace, quicker gun access during hunting, much better! 

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Jason

The only thing I'd change about it is the movement speed while aiming, that's a little too fast. But on a whole I'm enjoying the changes a lot personally.

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Assblaster

Love the quick stowing and looting, but I hate the quicker movement. Moving at normal speed looks ridiculous now. And if I try to move him slow he still jerks about too quick,it's like the whole feeling of gravity is gone now if that makes sense.

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Ghoffman9
8 hours ago, ThaBirdCoot said:

They could tone it down slightly and it would be, okay I guess ? But the strafing movement... oh my god I feel like all the cocaine gum finally turned my char into some crazy arse juiced up coke head Tony Montana on his last stand.

 

Not feeling it right now, gunplay is very much a joke now against npc's you just drop them like flies and it feels unrewarding. Pvp a cruel joke. As if that needed any more hatred from me. I find it better shooting things from horseback currently, at least that isn't sped up so much in terms of movement. 

Enemies in Rockstar games have always been very easy to defeat in of themselves. Rockstar tries to compensate for this by spawning a sh*t ton of them and just throwing them at you all at once. Its what made the Doomsday Heists in Gta Online so difficult as the game throws a very large number of enemies all at once who respawn immediately when killed. Their whole strategy for difficulty is overwhelming you with sheer numbers alone. Its how they did things for years from Gta 3 up to now in RDR2.

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The Shakermaker

I played it briefly before I was kicked out by a server issue. The hand to hand seemed better. But the movement felt so odd. Not sure I like it. I might test it again some point soon

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RyuNova

The movement is fine if a little jittery but they should have left the reload speed alone. You can reload Dual Revolvers in seconds. Revolvers had high stopping power but long reloads whereas Pistols had low stopping power but fast reloads but now that's useless.

 

There is no tactically to gun fights now, before you had to think what weapons to bring but now you can just bring anything.

Edited by RyuNova

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Gleeman Vox
1 hour ago, RyuNova said:

 reload Dual Revolvers in seconds. Revolvers had high stopping power but long reloads 

The really wierd thing is that Dual Lemats reload super fast, but a single Lemat reloads with it’s old reload speed

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ThaBirdCoot
3 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Enemies in Rockstar games have always been very easy to defeat in of themselves.

Yeah, if you play aim assist. Flick a button/win

 

3 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Rockstar tries to compensate for this by spawning a sh*t ton of them and just throwing them at you all at once. Its what made the Doomsday Heists in Gta Online so difficult as the game throws a very large number of enemies all at once who respawn immediately when killed

What made Doomsday heist annoying, but not particulary hard was the bulletsponginess of enemies and their insane accuracy or shall I say the insta melt rapid fire trick. But we agree here. At least this isn't the case in RDO except for a few lawmen (St.Denis) and particular Npc's roaming the wilderness, perhaps also the jackasses at Thieves Landing.

 

3 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Their whole strategy for difficulty is overwhelming you with sheer numbers alone.

That's how I felt before animations were changed, especially on camp defenses it showed. But I liked that because it was actually challenging when you had to dispatch them with manual aiming.

Now they can throw everything they have at you but all you have to do is equip a leMat or shotgun and hipfire them to bits. Boring old gunplay. Sorry but that is my opinion, I can't enjoy it at all like I said. 

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djb204

So many animations were toned down, cut in half, or removed completely just to appease the Arcady crowd. Take the looting animations for example, it’s a minor change but it hurts immersion. The new looting animation feels like I’m racing against the clock to collect coins in Sonic The Hedgehog. The original design had us flip the bodies over and/or step over the bodies and lift the corpse to dig in their pockets. I don’t see the problem with this. It took a second or two, but what’s the rush? The whole purpose of this game was the old west experience, and that is what drew me in. It wasn’t your fast paste shoot em up firefight that other games are. Red Dead was different, but what’s with this change in creative direction? Why are they ruining the feel of this game? Rockstar even stated early on that Red Dead Online isn’t the fast paste chaotic experience that one would find in Grand Theft Auto Online, but that appears to be changing now.

Edited by djb204

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Slonitram

I'd much rather have this new combat system over RDR2's sluggish cover-based combat. Why? Because let's face it, RDR2 never had good movement. Sure, the animations looked good and fluid, but that came in the cost of making the gameplay fun and easy to control. I hated controlling Arthur because of how long he'd take to turn, how long he'd take to just start sprinting, how much he'd get stuck in doorways, rocks and other things I sometimes couldn't even see on the ground. I never found myself immersed in the singleplayer whenever Arthur would refuse to just even go through a door sometimes unless he did that long, boring animation of him opening a door. The same thing goes for combat too, because the clunky, slow movement simply did not fit well with the realistic mocapped animations. The game was too worried about showing off its motion capture work to actually make combat fun and interesting. When this carried over to Red Dead Online, I hated it even more, because Rockstar was clearly designing it to be arcade-y and fast paced. This made the sluggish tone from singleplayer even more of a struggle to survive and most of my time in old PVP is remembered in frustrating memories of my character taking too damn long to cock a Bolt Action Rifle when he's supposed to be someone with adrenaline running through his veins, working fast through everything to survive.

 

This new fast paced combat? I absolutely love it. Not only it reminds me of how combat was in Red Dead Redemption 1, it actually is fit for how arcade-y RDO has always been. Most importantly, it's fun. I'd rather take fun over immersion in a video game literally any day. Because a video game is never 100% immersive or realistic to me, no matter how hard it tries, and when it tries too hard, it just becomes frustrating and boring. I will admit that the only thing that carried me through RDR2's singleplayer campaign was the story, the characters, the music and the world. The gameplay? The gameplay belongs in a 101 book on how to not design a video game. The immersion? Barely ever felt it.

 

Next up, I hope Rockstar gets rid (or heavily nerfs) weapon bloom and the stupid camera shake whenever you get shot. No realism or immersion is had when you miss a shot not because you actually missed it, but because an arbitrary dice roll in the game's code decided "you're not landing that headshot because unfortunately, your circle for your weapon designed to hit targets at long ranges was 1 millimeter too big". Make it happen, R*.

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DarksunDaFirst
19 hours ago, djb204 said:

I understand that, but it just spoils what the gun fights use to be. They should have just got rid of auto lock on and went straight free aim without the dead eye target painting. That would have maintained the realistic gunfight presentation while at the same time reducing headshots drastically.

While this seems to be a popular opinion on these boards (it's a minority one), it would be extremely unpopular within the entire community.  

Please get over it - most people like the lock-on system.  That's why it's been the core of their aiming systems for almost 18 years now.

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The Deadite

I liked that the gameplay required you to be a bit methodical, Arthur feels like it has weight and theres tons of animations... but to be honest the RDR2 gameplay was never that great to begin and it shows more on online gameplay, i wasnt overly atached to it.

Im impartial to the changes tbh, its more arcadey and the new reloading speed is ludicrous- but PvE its now frenetic af and the looting speed and "minor" adjusments reminds me to RDR1.

Edited by The Deadite

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