Combat changes

[AmyStone]

What does everyone think of the changes? It's a bit early to know for sure yet but a battle I was in yesterday did feel better than before. It took a bit more work to kill each other and it wasn't just a whole bunch of instant headshot kills. I'll know for sure in around a week but right now things feel better. And it was nice being able to lock on to someone in slippery. At close range it wasn't difficult to lock on and get a headshot. I have a feeling that card will not have much use any more.

[Ryan5252]

I haven't done any showdowns yet but it's on my daily challenges so I'll do it at some point today. It feels alot smoother in PvE clearing hideouts and bounty gangs. It seems more reactive.

 

One thing I have noticed though is a massive drain on weapon condition. I'm constantly cleaning my weapons after battles. Definitely wasn't this bad before so gun oil has become a lot more valuable. (And no, I haven't been swimming with them lol). 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Ryan5252

[AmyStone]

12 minutes ago, Ryan5252 said:

One thing I have noticed though is a massive drain on weapon condition. I'm constantly cleaning my weapons after battles. Definitely wasn't this bad before so gun oil has become a lot more valuable. (And no, I haven't been swimming with them lol). 

I hadn't noticed that. But I did notice there was an option clean all weapons when you're in a Showdown lobby (and I hope it's just the ones in your loadout and not literally all of your weapons otherwise it could get quite expensive).

 

I'm starting to wonder if these changes are really just a way of making us spend more money and not really about making the game better. Spend more on gun oil. Spend more on potions for deadeye. Spend more on getting a replacement card to SB. It sound like what they do in GTA. Bring out a car that performs well. Everyone buys it. Nerf it a few weeks later and improve the performance of another car to encourage people to buy that one. It forces people to buy a load of cars and spend money just to stay competitive.

[Hudawg]

Way too fast paced.   Good if it was free aim.  Over kill with auto aim.  And im not even just talking about pvp, but coop/pve too.

 

PIB is now king.  

 

Just doing BH missions, I ride up to a massive amount of enemies.  Auto Aim+PIB, everthings dead in seconds.  

 

Id say that PIB is the next card to be put on the chopping block.  

 

R* needs to refund players moneys when they alter ability cards.  The nerf to SB was simply uncalled for.     The card should be renamed to 'We Suck".   Because it makes everyone have crappy auto aim, from the user to anyone targeting the user. 

[RyuNova]

The way it was worded I was not happy about the changes to animations but having played with them for a few hours I like them. Sharper but not without weight.

[AmyStone]

7 minutes ago, Hudawg said:

Way too fast paced.   Good if it was free aim.  Over kill with auto aim.  And im not even just talking about pvp, but coop/pve too.

The pace is a lot faster. That will mean that good PvP players will dominate poorer players even more now. My movement settings are set at max - which were pretty good before the update but now the moment is incredibly quick.

 

They won't refund for the SB card. I tried to get refunded for NWO then they nerfed that but they wouldn't.

 

I also notices yesterday that my Lancaster fire rate was extremely rapid. It was firing at least twice as fast as before. I haven't checked the other weapons yet so don't know if they have an increased fire rate. Of course this just means you have to spend more money on ammo now. All part of the plan to make us poorer.

Edited September 11, 2019 by AmyStone

[Danish Crusader]

My honest opinion:

The new combat animations are complete and total garbage!

The game used to have a unique movement style, but now? Now it is just another arcade shooter.

Running while aiming, reloading at super human speeds and everything is fast, fast, FAST!

 

Everything feels like you are floating around and it just feels really bad.

I want the old animations and combat pace back, not this arcade movement crap that we got.

 

Long story short, they went way too far with the tuning and gutting of animations.

I can accept the looting and stowing of carcasses on horses, not everything else, no... Just, no!

Edited September 11, 2019 by Danish Crusader

[5.7]

Think my characters chewin’ tooooooooo much cocaine gum...

[ThaBirdCoot]

19 hours ago, Hudawg said:

Way too fast paced.   Good if it was free aim. 

Even full free aim, which I play, feels out of place now. No issue killing hordes of enemies. Fire from hip/win. Simple as, it really doesn't feel very rewarding at all. Also did a few story missions for the sake of testing the animations and getting used to. These are over in a couple minutes now because like you said coupled with auto aim and cards that system is total overkill.

[Hudawg]

5 hours ago, ThaBirdCoot said:

Even full free aim, which I play, feels out of place now. No issue killing hordes of enemies. Fire from hip/win. Simple as, it really doesn't feel very rewarding at all. Also did a few story missions for the sake of testing the animations and getting used to. These are over in a couple minutes now because like you said coupled with auto aim and cards that system is total overkill.

Im sure R* will compensate for that by adding more and more enemies on horse back that just spawn out of thin air right next to players.

 

[RyuNova]

16 minutes ago, Hudawg said:

Im sure R* will compensate for that by adding more and more enemies on horse back that just spawn out of thin air right next to players.

 

 

They will just go the GTAO route and increase the accuracy of enemies with each update instead of actually making interesting AI or set pieces. Like Bounty Hunting just had waves of enemies spawn behind you instead of roadblocks in strategic locations like Stranger missions have.

 

Eventually we will have enemies using Carano Rifles one shotting you from Horseback across the map.

[IceHeartache]

For me the combat is crap now, if you want to be "good" now, in assisted aim you just need

 

PIB

Dead eye tonics

a good shotgun and that is all

 

i actually liked the system before, because it feels a little like Max Payne 3 but now is like Fortnite, but well it is what it is, i hope in the future they fix the shotgun range, but i think they don't care about it 

For me the combat is crap now, if you want to be "good" now, in assisted aim you just need

 

PIB

Dead eye tonics

a good shotgun and that is all

 

i actually liked the system before, because it feels a little like Max Payne 3 but now is like Fortnie, but well it is what it is, i hope in the future they fix the shotgun range, but i think they don't care about it 

[Hudawg]

1 hour ago, RyuNova said:

 

They will just go the GTAO route and increase the accuracy of enemies with each update instead of actually making interesting AI or set pieces. Like Bounty Hunting just had waves of enemies spawn behind you instead of roadblocks in strategic locations like Stranger missions have.

 

Eventually we will have enemies using Carano Rifles one shotting you from Horseback across the map.

And they will all use Explosive ammo  ..lol

[gtmike]

Great changes overall. The animations are way better, the crap they had before had no business in an online game (worked fine in single player). The game wasn't slower paced, it was just clunky and frustrating.

 

Good riddance to slippery bastard, it was a game ruining card, RDO is a thousand times better without it.

 

They really should refund the money for people who upgraded it though, that's some bullsh*t.

[Rockett800]

The new gunplay is different. I know, hot take, but I mean the game feels very much like a run 'n' gun now, rather than the heavy slow shooter it was. And, honestly, it's fun. If you want you can sprint through battle, closing distances and blasting targets with shoulders and shotguns like a god-mode Hotline Miami level. And I like having the walking speed increase a lot. Using the thumbstick to full advantage takes our characters from four speeds to five and that's a huge difference. Being able to sneak, stroll, march, charge, and sprint is fantastic. Now, purposefully marching through a battle in Bolgers Glade, or clearing out a criminal mining camp by sprinting through with a double barrel and a six shooter is doable, and it feels like a John Woo or Tarantino western which is a ton of fun to play. But I was having fun before too, in an entirely different way.

 

The story mode style heavy, slow and deliberate movements feel right at home in the more serious Spaghetti Western influenced world of Red Dead. The combat scale and pace felt equal parts "Django" (1966) and clint Eastwood's magnum opus "Unforgiven." Your character is used to being a small person in a big world, but times are changing and you're forced from your western comfort zone. Gun fights were generally slow builds with quick violent ends. In less populated lands dead eye can still lend to awesome and terrible displays of power, clearing whole camps with a single bloody volley. But I've come to terms with the numbers of enemies, as well as the police AI, as being almost allegorical in nature. While a well trained shootist can still clear streets in the blink of an eye, the bodies are quickly replaced. To fight against civilization is a sisyphean task, you're only options are bend, run or die. The combat and style serves a purpose within the world, and in online it felt even more visceral. When against players you're no longer a nigh invincible beast eating shots left and right, you go down as quickly and violently as your enemy. And while that's still true, the animation cuts and speed boosts make it feel more like CoD than a classic western. Though with a few reverts, and some pretty different changes to combat, I feel it could be capitalized on well.

 

In a perfect world, we should be able to fully spec our characters out for different combat types. Gun preferences would lead to better weapon control and damages, and the player could build into varying athletic types. While high speed glass cannons should still be a viable build we should also get to create slow, steady heavy characters that can handle their own as well as everything in between. But that's a tall order, so let's just slow everyone down some again. No more matrix battle sprinting and no more semi-auto speed bolt actions. From there, though, continue to buff all damage. Give shotguns longer ranges, body shots should eat health in thirds and halves, and long range rifles should be able to reliably drop hit targets with ease. Guns aren't toys, and most who get shot drop fast with two hits usually keeping people down for good. The in game historical weapons especially should be slow and powerful, they're far from contemporary nines & AKs after all. To offset this, bloom and recoil ought to be increased heavily for all weapons. If we really want to cut down on the headshot reliance in game, we must make headshots harder. Great shooters are few and far between in real life. It's the reason soldiers are trained for center of mass, your aim will likely be off, so go for the largest target. Doesn't hurt that the torso is still important, and even a lucky novice could aim for the absolute center, pull slightly to the right and pierce a heart. This would also serve to make deadeye into a very useful tool. Before the update I found it only lightly used, and now it's next to useless. But by slowing down aimed shot accuracy and making follow up shots even harder dead eye could be used to great effect against multiple enemies and speedier targets. Add on some improvements to the cover system and battles could be made more tactical, dangerous and bloody in the best way possible. Shots would more often hit around you rather than in you, deaths would feel well earned and cool heads with well paced shots would often beat a volley of panicked random fire. Enemy AI already have pretty poor aim, so with more even odds gunfights wouldn't have to end in such ludicrous kill counts to still be long and interesting. I think that's the best way to improve upon the already interesting gameplay to craft a more unique experience over all.

 

As for the other things, I personally prefer having all the animations, as again it's world building through gameplay. I understand why they'd drop them, and why some prefer the change, but maybe it would have been better to have both passive and combat animations. To have it where while off hunting by yourself, or in the calm after you've cleared a hideout the full animations would play again for looting and skinning, but while you're in combat or on a mission timer your draw and holster speeds could increase slightly and you wouldn't have to sit through the whole animations for everything. Hopefully that's a doable change, feels possible enough.

Oh, and maybe it's just in my head because I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, but do horses feel more skittish now? Used to be my paint was almost a mini war horse, fearless of gunfire though quick to run around fanged attackers. Now though he often freaks around fire, sprinting away from the action and being real wary about coming back, and the buck rate around angry critters feels much higher than before too. My ol' Kentucky saddler feels braver, but still less so than he was before. Just hoping I'm not the only one to notice.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Rockett800

[CosmicBuffalo]

 

This video pretty much sums it up.  His channel was dedicated to free aim in RDO. I personally think the change in slippery has more to do with being vulnerable during free mode sales of trader cargo.

Edited September 13, 2019 by CosmicBuffalo

[RyuNova]

I dont know if its just me but we seem to have more health as well. I now have no issue just charging a camp with a any weapon and everyone is dead before they know it. You used to get gunned down in a hail of bullets the moment you were out of cover.

[LostReacher]

I'm honestly not fussed with online in rdro at all now. It's disgusting we should wait a whole year to get some real content added to online. Not my deal.

[CosmicBuffalo]

S&S now applies when on horseback effectively rendering it 100% useless for a solo player.  If any card deserves a refund, S&S does.  The card was nerfed out of showdowns 6 months ago. 

 

The card is now only a tank card for a future organized posse heist or something where everyone is gunned down with a minigun or something if one member doesnt have it equipped. 

 

There is literally no reasonable scenario in this game to use the card.  Its really more of a hanicap to have it equipped.  Cannot move, aim is reduced, damage of all weapons increased, speed of players is increased....I mean why on earth after a year of allowing it on horseback would R* remove that piece.  No one uses the card as is, it is now the worst Deadeye card. 

 

Edit: I bet this change will affect you while in a wagon...bringing the wagon to halt when you turn it on...will test.  S&S does work in wagons.

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by CosmicBuffalo

[AmyStone]

Having played around with SB, I can't see any point to it. No sane person would use it any more. It puts you a a disadvantage when it's activated.

Edited September 14, 2019 by AmyStone

[RyuNova]

Why can a strafe like Doom Guy if I lock on, fire and then move sideways. I am literally running at sprint speed side ways while looking forward. Its fast enough to dodge bullets.

Edited September 14, 2019 by RyuNova

[Ryan5252]

52 minutes ago, AmyStone said:

Having played around with SB, I can't see any point to it. No sane person would use it any more. It puts you a a disadvantage when it's activated.

It's a chocolate teapot. Rockstar should refund players, what we paid for isn't what we got. 

 

Have you played with any of the new cards? I looked at them on release day, wasn't too excited and kept my current cards. I'm reluctant to invest in anything new only to have it changed a few months later. 

[~INDIO~]

I love it, feels way better. You actually get into cover now instead of jumping over it.

Just need some more sweet revolvers and rifles now R*

[RyuNova]

On 9/12/2019 at 2:58 PM, Baltel said:

i actually liked the system before, because it feels a little like Max Payne 3 but now is like Fortnite, but well it is what it is, i hope in the future they fix the shotgun range, but i think they don't care about it 

For me the combat is crap now, if you want to be "good" now, in assisted aim you just need

 

Yes! Thats it, it had weight like MP but now you just float around on Ice Skates. Every action had to be tactical but now you can just Leroy Jenkins everything.

Edited September 15, 2019 by RyuNova

[Hudawg]

19 hours ago, AmyStone said:

Having played around with SB, I can't see any point to it. No sane person would use it any more. It puts you a a disadvantage when it's activated.

Well, its still useful for running around like a crazy person and turning it on and off, diving and using auto aim.  But, PIB still nulls it.

 

Really, it mostly effected players who used it to free aim with.    

 

For me, I only used it to avoid auto aim and to even the playing field in terms of pvp, because I use free aim.  Now, im pretty much forced to use auto aim.  And if im going to use auto aim, might as well use the PIB.

 

Some people, (Which boggled my mind) Claimed SB was the meta and OP.  Which was never ever true.  It was and still is PIB.

 

 Im pretty decent with free aim..  Now, with auto aim and PIB, im an animal in terms of slaughtering NPCS or Players.    What would have been a good 20-30 second shoot out with a player is now reduced to a half a second of Lock on, PIB, Flick, Dead.

 

I can't use free aim anymore because of the this change to SB, as much as I want to

 

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Hudawg