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Hudawg

Weapons rebalancing to reduce reliance on headshots as the primary kill method in PvP?

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AmyStone
Just now, Lonely-Martin said:

Awesome, thanks for that. Sweet!

I hope it's just just defensive mode. It annoys the hell out of me when an NPC will steer their horse in your direction as you approach. If you ride into them they are so angry they want to murder you. Defending yourself against these crazy people gets you a bounty. You should be able to just get on your horse again and ride away.

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Fun 2
33 minutes ago, P.T. said:

So i read those patch notes. Someone please point out to me where they did anything for this

They increased the damage for all weapons, now it require less body shots to kill players.

Damage fall off modifier applies to headshots when not using telescopic sight, so in other words headshots no longer instant kill from long distances.

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CosmicBuffalo

I knew I needed to get those 100 free mode events before this update.  Slippery Bastard is worthless now.

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P.T.
3 minutes ago, Fun 2 said:

They increased the damage for all weapons, now it require less body shots to kill players.

Damage fall off modifier applies to headshots when not using telescopic sight, so in other words headshots no longer instant kill from long distances.

Ok , but that isnt making things any better to me at all.

Now no need t obother even trying for a headshot... just auto lock on and fire away......

The problem never was head shots causing insta death.

The probelem was and still IS the stupid auto lock on BS. 

This has not fixed a friggin thing .

 

 

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Fun 2
11 minutes ago, P.T. said:

Ok , but that isnt making things any better to me at all.

Now no need t obother even trying for a headshot... just auto lock on and fire away......

The problem never was head shots causing insta death.

The probelem was and still IS the stupid auto lock on BS. 

This has not fixed a friggin thing .

 

 

There's a new Showdown Series called "Takeover Series (Free Aim)".

The whole auto lock on is useless there.

But you will still experience those auto lock on problems in free roam

Edited by Fun 2

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P.T.
4 minutes ago, Fun 2 said:

There's a new Showdown Series called "Takeover Series (Free Aim)".

The whole auto lock on is useless there.

But you will still experience those auto lock on problems in free roam

Ok , so this "take over series" . Your saying that is free aim only ? But its not something that allows us to play all showdown series types with free aim ?

Im kinda confused here. I dont have a big issue with auto lock on in free roam , i roam around in def mode. Its the showdown series i can not enjoy ( but is something i prefer to play if i could enjoy it)  because of the auto lock on feature.

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Fun 2
Just now, P.T. said:

Ok , so this "take over series" . Your saying that is free aim only ? But its not something that allows us to play all showdown series types with free aim ?

Im kinda confused here. I dont have a big issue with auto lock on in free roam , i roam around in def mode. Its the showdown series i can not enjoy ( but is something i prefer to play if i could enjoy it)  because of the auto lock on feature.

Yes, there's a new series called Takeover Series that is free aim only.

However, it doesn't apply to all Showdowns. There's a normal version of the same series where auto lock on is applied there.

This series include the showdowns that's about getting to the top, capture modes ..etc

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P.T.
4 minutes ago, Fun 2 said:

Yes, there's a new series called Takeover Series that is free aim only.

However, it doesn't apply to all Showdowns. There's a normal version of the same series where auto lock on is applied there.

This series include the showdowns that's about getting to the top, capture modes ..etc

smh, why only do it for one type though? This is what is so dang frustrating , Dang Rockstar. #$%@

 

Why not simply do it for all showdowns? This is what we have been asking for .... but not just to be piegon holed into only 1 type of showdown. #[email protected]#

5 minutes ago, Fun 2 said:

Yes, there's a new series called Takeover Series that is free aim only.

However, it doesn't apply to all Showdowns. There's a normal version of the same series where auto lock on is applied there.

This series include the showdowns that's about getting to the top, capture modes ..etc

if this is the case, then all of us who have been asking for free aim ( at the least of for showdown series) need to flood this type of showdown as much as we can to show them , we want more like this . I will soley only be picking this showdown series for a while ( eventhough i wish it worked in the others) in hopes of showing them the amount of people who want this across the board.

Edited by P.T.

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Fun 2

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P.T.
2 minutes ago, Fun 2 said:

image?url=MSVnmBUo_fHjbLYMjAEUQ9p3KJ8fac

I really hope a lot of people will stick to playing this only for a while to show them we want this . So hopefully they add it to all showdown series in the near future! 

 

Thanks for photo, Im going to borrow it for a bit to spread awareness ( as i didnt see this explained in patch notes ) 

Edited by P.T.

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P.T.
34 minutes ago, P.T. said:

 

 

Thanks for photo, Im going to borrow it for a bit to spread awareness ( as i didnt see this explained in patch notes ) 

Im curious why they did not specifically point this out in patch notes though? The best way for people to know about a thing is to actually inform them of it ya know ? I mean i see it in game there, which is good, if people actually look for it. But there are many who have not been playing for the very reason of no true free aim . So it might make sense to highlight that addition for others to know about so they can at least come back and try it . 

 

My fear is if not enough play it ( some because they dont even know about it) Rockstar would use that as an excuse to not do more.

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MusicMan05
1 hour ago, P.T. said:

I really hope a lot of people will stick to playing this only for a while to show them we want this . So hopefully they add it to all showdown series in the near future! 

 

Thanks for photo, Im going to borrow it for a bit to spread awareness ( as i didnt see this explained in patch notes ) 

I think that's why they did one series vs adding it to all series. They're likely testing it to see how many players will play the Freeaim version vs the Autoaim version. I'm guessing that if there's enough Freeaim players, they might add seperate lobbies based on your aim settings in the future.

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P.T.
3 minutes ago, MusicMan05 said:

I think that's why they did one series vs adding it to all series. They're likely testing it to see how many players will play the Freeaim version vs the Autoaim version. I'm guessing that if there's enough Freeaim players, they might add seperate lobbies based on your aim settings in the future.

all the more reason if that is why they only added one, they should highlight it in notes and make sure word gets out well to everyone. 

A lot of people who want this , are not currently playing and havent been due to lack of it. So they need to do better job of getting that word out instead of expecting them to just know it. 

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Happy Hunter

It's a shame they pandered to some of the complaints about Slippery Bastard - the entire premise of the card is gone; no point in it anymore.

 

Buffing Slow and Steady up a bit is good I think, they butchered that one way too much when they nerfed it in that other update.

 

PIB is basically unchanged. I never saw anyone go 'oh I wish it took them more deadeye per shot!' No, people complained about it not having a counter at long range/open spaces, it bypassing inaccuracy and boosting shotgun range.

 

Some big buffs to sniping.

 

 

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Brutal Trout

Difference in firepower/damage done you can definitely tell. 

That overall increase in movement speed was not necessary imo, it doesn't make the game more fluid. I guess Fortnite players will be pleased with that.

Aim assist on scoped weapons like carcano and rolling block I don't think it was necessary other than to shoot birds out of the sky and lose all integrity, you got the varmit for that.... 

Waiting to see how close combat has improved because it was a catastrophy so far.

Directional damage indicator is fugly.

Edited by Brutal Trout

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Hudawg

SB altered for no reason.  Headshots nerfed.  Body Shots buffed.  Sniper Riles get aim assist.   All weapon mechanics speed up.

 

PIB is now king.

 

Gotta admit, I was worried.   And R* went above and beyond messing things up.  Game is now waaay to face paced with auto aim and PIB>

 

Sad thing is, after months of people begging for free aim.  They give players ONE little game mode.  A little crumb for the free aim bums I guess..lol

 

Edited by Hudawg

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Ghoffman9

They simply should have never made headshots instant kill. In all their previous games with online play, a headshot only dealt increased damage to enemy players, not kill them outright. Snipers were the only exception to this rule. It makes sense for a game that has auto-aim. Don't know what possessed them to make them change that rule. Picture an aimbot Sniper in TF2, that perfectly describes RDO PvP in a nutshell.

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tonko
21 minutes ago, Ghoffman9 said:

They simply should have never made headshots instant kill. In all their previous games with online play, a headshot only dealt increased damage to enemy players, not kill them outright. Snipers were the only exception to this rule. It makes sense for a game that has auto-aim. Don't know what possessed them to make them change that rule. Picture an aimbot Sniper in TF2, that perfectly describes RDO PvP in a nutshell.

RDR 1 multiplayer's headshots were instant kills.

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wehweh01
6 hours ago, Hudawg said:

SB altered for no reason.  Headshots nerfed.  Body Shots buffed.  Sniper Riles get aim assist.   All weapon mechanics speed up.

 

PIB is now king.

 

Gotta admit, I was worried.   And R* went above and beyond messing things up.  Game is now waaay to face paced with auto aim and PIB>

 

Sad thing is, after months of people begging for free aim.  They give players ONE little game mode.  A little crumb for the free aim bums I guess..lol

 

That Freeaim game mode is a farce. You can use Aim Assist there. It's utter trash. On the flipside we do get +20 xp per Freeaim kill on non player enemies. However, the PVP is absolute cancer now. I guess one could just get use to the changes but I think the movement speed is a step backwards along with the changes to Slippery Bastard & Paint It Black.

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Hudawg
4 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

They simply should have never made headshots instant kill. In all their previous games with online play, a headshot only dealt increased damage to enemy players, not kill them outright. Snipers were the only exception to this rule. It makes sense for a game that has auto-aim. Don't know what possessed them to make them change that rule. Picture an aimbot Sniper in TF2, that perfectly describes RDO PvP in a nutshell.

Head shots should be an instant kill.  Its reall the Auto aim should not even exist in pvp shooting games.  

 

R* should just remove pvp, let the game be pve only.     No muss no fuss.

 

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Ghoffman9
50 minutes ago, Hudawg said:

Head shots should be an instant kill.  Its reall the Auto aim should not even exist in pvp shooting games.  

 

R* should just remove pvp, let the game be pve only.     No muss no fuss.

 

In a game where you do all the aiming, headshot kills are fine. In a game where it does 95% of the aiming for you not so much. The way most developers do it right is limit instant headshot kills to weapons that have a high skill prerequisite to use consistently. Sniper rifles are the go to weapon of choice for most game developers for this style of play with its own set of weaknesses of being very ineffective when the enemy is in your face.

Rockstar has never been very good at making precise manual aiming and relied on auto aiming to make up for that for years.

Just offing someone in a single shot should never be easy in player versus player combat, its something that should be challenging to do. Not something that any idiot can do so long as they have two index fingers to hit the left and right triggers.

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Xtf
4 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

In a game where you do all the aiming, headshot kills are fine. In a game where it does 95% of the aiming for you not so much. The way most developers do it right is limit instant headshot kills to weapons that have a high skill prerequisite to use consistently. Sniper rifles are the go to weapon of choice for most game developers for this style of play with its own set of weaknesses of being very ineffective when the enemy is in your face.

Rockstar has never been very good at making precise manual aiming and relied on auto aiming to make up for that for years.

Just offing someone in a single shot should never be easy in player versus player combat, its something that should be challenging to do. Not something that any idiot can do so long as they have two index fingers to hit the left and right triggers.

As indicated above, it was in the first red dead redemption and we were all fine with it.
It's good that they've buffed the other weapons, you can now take someone out with 2 bolt action rifle shots, also as it was in the first game.

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éX-Driver
39 minutes ago, Xtf said:

As indicated above, it was in the first red dead redemption and we were all fine with it.
It's good that they've buffed the other weapons, you can now take someone out with 2 bolt action rifle shots, also as it was in the first game.

GTA 4 was the only Rockstar MP game where headshots didn’t kill outright. Even then, it was 2hko for even the weakest weapons in the game. 

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Ghoffman9
2 hours ago, éX-Driver said:

GTA 4 was the only Rockstar MP game where headshots didn’t kill outright. Even then, it was 2hko for even the weakest weapons in the game. 

Gta 5 Online operates the same way, ironically a game with automatic weapons for the longest time had a longer TTK on average than a game with only semi-automatic and bolt action weaponry. Its absurd when you think about it. All weapons in GTAO obey the rule of damage fall off the further away the target is. I cannot one shot headshot a player with a Carbine from mid-range, I know cause I had such a battle with a person a few days ago. Real good sport about it too, one of the few times I enjoyed PvP in Freeroam, had a casual friendly conversation as we fought.

While in RDO you could even one shot someone with a Varmint rifle from a long ways off until they nerfed it. Damage didn't matter cause it was amplified so much by landing a headshot that it didn't matter how weak the weapon you were using was. You had to be real close to be able to one shot someone with a headshot with most weapons in GTAO, so close that you're better off just using an assault shotgun to get the job done most of the time. The strength stat also gives you increased resistance to damage which only further reduced the likelihood of offing someone with a single shot to the head. If they have armor equipped, don't hold your breath waiting for that one hit kill. Same goes for BST.

 

RDR2 Online is nothing like RDR1's online. They copy pasted the Gta Online formula and coated it with a RDR paint job. Most of what you see came from GTAO or improvements as a result from what they learned from GTAO. Thusly its combat should have been treated the same. GTA 4's and RDR1's online were just footnotes, something they added to have a check mark on the box. Nothing they took real serious, but in case you haven't noticed those times have changed and Rockstar is dead serious about it now. Why else would they be even willing to change in-game mechanics with the way you move and shoot during fights to address balancing issues?

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éX-Driver
2 hours ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Gta 5 Online operates the same way, ironically a game with automatic weapons for the longest time had a longer TTK on average than a game with only semi-automatic and bolt action weaponry. Its absurd when you think about it. All weapons in GTAO obey the rule of damage fall off the further away the target is. I cannot one shot headshot a player with a Carbine from mid-range, I know cause I had such a battle with a person a few days ago. Real good sport about it too, one of the few times I enjoyed PvP in Freeroam, had a casual friendly conversation as we fought.

While in RDO you could even one shot someone with a Varmint rifle from a long ways off until they nerfed it. Damage didn't matter cause it was amplified so much by landing a headshot that it didn't matter how weak the weapon you were using was. You had to be real close to be able to one shot someone with a headshot with most weapons in GTAO, so close that you're better off just using an assault shotgun to get the job done most of the time. The strength stat also gives you increased resistance to damage which only further reduced the likelihood of offing someone with a single shot to the head. If they have armor equipped, don't hold your breath waiting for that one hit kill. Same goes for BST.

 

RDR2 Online is nothing like RDR1's online. They copy pasted the Gta Online formula and coated it with a RDR paint job. Most of what you see came from GTAO or improvements as a result from what they learned from GTAO. Thusly its combat should have been treated the same. GTA 4's and RDR1's online were just footnotes, something they added to have a check mark on the box. Nothing they took real serious, but in case you haven't noticed those times have changed and Rockstar is dead serious about it now. Why else would they be even willing to change in-game mechanics with the way you move and shoot during fights to address balancing issues?

Ranges are a good bit longer in GTA than Red Dead. It just doesn’t seem that way because RDO’s map is so dense.

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