Weapons rebalancing to reduce reliance on headshots as the primary kill method in PvP?

[gtmike]

They'll probably just add more cards to "balance" things.

 

Don't worry all you little Harry Potters out there, you'll be chugging your wizards brew and casting your magic spells more than ever before 

[Talisman_83]

21 minutes ago, gtmike said:

They'll probably just add more cards to "balance" things.

 

Don't worry all you little Harry Potters out there, you'll be chugging your wizards brew and casting your magic spells more than ever before 

I wonder how many new cards we'll see on Tuesday and what they'll be.

I do hope they aren't OP and existing OP cards are nerfed a bit.

Also, nothing outside of point blank shotgun or sniper should be a one hit kill in this game full stop, in my opinion.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Talisman_83

[Brutal Trout]

Im exited about new cards (they will never disappear, they would not add new ones otherwise...) but worried about that weapons rebalance. Other than putting new weapons out I don't really see what they could do to the already available ones. They fixed the Carcano and rolling block that were underpowered, also the Litchfield's aim, which was really welcome and on the other end the nerfing of the varmint was actualy a buff, so I hope they don't mess up too much.

 

We'll see about these new moves too, maybe free aiming will feel better hopefully.

[Happy Hunter]

14 hours ago, Pocket Fox said:

The bird population laughs at us now.

I tried to stop it happening.

 

 

Also, having a quick look for that I came across some old pre-nerf footage of it I took. Can definitely feel the difference.

 

 

Also pre-nerf Slow and Steady. I miss that, they nerfed it too hard in my opinion.

 

 

[Ronin Ogami]

 It's about both the aim mechanics, & the over lethally OP headshots, that make no sense when compared to people tanking shotgun slugs, SLUGS at close range. Also it's not that the headshots shouldn't kill, but time to kill IS too fast atm. That & You never get the chance to respond to any (cheap or sneak) attack when you're already dead, from a shooter you couldn't even see. Doesn't make PvP ANY fun. Too easy for everybody to just lock on & flick up, & that's NOT A PROBLEM WITH NPC'S. But with players, it's a system that needs more tweaking. & this ISN'T an FPS Shooter based game, it's a western sim. You want CoD, Go to COD. You want Fortnite, Go to Fortnite. & If you want free aim, I think you should have your own lobbies, it'd be less frustrating all around. Once you lock on to someone, the bloom should instantly go to full if you try flick up within a 1 1/2 second time span

[Hudawg]

12 minutes ago, Ronin Ogami said:

 Doesn't make PvP ANY fun. Too easy for everybody to just lock on & flick up, & that's NOT A PROBLEM WITH NPC'S.

IMO it does effect NPCS and co-op game modes too.

 

I can't even count how many times a random Mr Try Hard runs off way ahead of the group and kills all the enemy AI before anyone catches up.  Lock on, Flick up, Dead..  Killing all the npcs in seconds and sucking the fun out of the co-op mission.  Like the other 3 players in the game are just there to enjoy the ride.

 

I would chop off my pinky finger right now for a proper free aim lobby for all game modes.  The only time I get to play free aim co-op missions is with friends.  

 

I enjoy the co-op missions too.  But I tend to have to hope that im playing with newbies if expect any sort of excitement in the missions.  

[Jason]

41 minutes ago, Ronin Ogami said:

 It's about both the aim mechanics, & the over lethally OP headshots, that make no sense when compared to people tanking shotgun slugs, SLUGS at close range. Also it's not that the headshots shouldn't kill, but time to kill IS too fast atm. That & You never get the chance to respond to any (cheap or sneak) attack when you're already dead, from a shooter you couldn't even see.

Shotguns are always a balancing nightmare, it's not a problem specific to RDO. They also tend to have issues when there is any sort of desync or lag, which RDO sometimes has a lot of atm.

 

As for headshots being "OP" and the TTK being too quick, those are both direct symptoms of lock on aiming. Assuming they're in range you can see someone and have your crosshair on their head within half a second. There's no getting around that lock on aiming is the fundamental problem with RDO PvP.

 

44 minutes ago, Ronin Ogami said:

this ISN'T an FPS Shooter based game, it's a western sim. You want CoD, Go to COD. You want Fortnite, Go to Fortnite. & If you want free aim, I think you should have your own lobbies, it'd be less frustrating all around.

wut. RDO is anything but a sim and it is indeed a shooter that is first and third person. We shouldn't even have free aim lobbies, we should just have one lobby where everybody free aims as it would make shooting and firefights a much more enjoyable experience rather than left trigger and right trigger spamming.

 

I mean to put it simply, every major update now is seeing balancing changes both mechanically and with things like the ability cards that are all a direct result of the lock on system. They are actively having to balance around it because it's such a big problem.

[tonko]

5 hours ago, RyuNova said:

Remove the Ability Card system from PvP. Let players fight on pure skill alone instead of using the same cheating loadout every match. Its just people flopping around with Slippery Bastard and/or instantly going into Paint It Black. I f*cking HATE combat rolling in GTAO and Slippery Bastard in RDO.

What i find hilarious and tragic at the same time is when someone uploads his kill streak from Showdown on the internet and almost all the time he's flopping around in sepia tone (constant dead eye). 

5 hours ago, gtmike said:

They'll probably just add more cards to "balance" things.

 

Don't worry all you little Harry Potters out there, you'll be chugging your wizards brew and casting your magic spells more than ever before 

Classic Sergio Leone stuff. Still remember that awesome moment when Blondie chugged snake tonic, whipped out his magic cards and shot Angel Eyes dead.

 

1 point for Gryffindor.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by tonko

[RyuNova]

10 minutes ago, tonko said:

What i find hilarious and tragic at the same time is when someone uploads his kill streak from Showdown on the internet and almost all the time he's flopping around in sepia tone (constant dead eye). 

 

 

Yup, its literally the only wayu to play the game unless you play with a group where its banned by a gentlemans agreement. Cover, for example, is pointless seeing as PIB can shoot the balls off a fly so if the tip of your nose is pointing out the moment you leave cover you are dead.

[Caffeination]

While it’s a good change to deter players from simply flicking up and winning the battle, the PvP will remain inadequate since it still boils down to whoever locks-on first, and unbalanced with the ability cards.

 

I’ve known Rockstar for long enough that it’s simpler to live with such deeply-ingrained mechanics, they’ll do nothing besides tweaking and balancing the meme cards. At least the PvE cards exist since they are quite useful.

[Jason]

4 minutes ago, Caffeination said:

I’ve known Rockstar for long enough that it’s simpler to live with such deeply-ingrained mechanics, they’ll do nothing besides tweaking and balancing the meme cards.

In fairness, they're doing something they've never done before this patch which is making "substantial" changes to the games movement and it sounds like these are being done to improve the combat. So while I'd normally agree with you, they look to being taking a very welcome first step into getting out of their stubbornness with the next update.

 

That being said,  some developers are just inept when it comes to balancing PVP and unfortunately I think Rockstar are one of those developers. They're in good company with Blizzard who have been making PvP games for decades and are still hopeless.

[Caffeination]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

In fairness, they're doing something they've never done before this patch which is making "substantial" changes to the games movement and it sounds like these are being done to improve the combat. So while I'd normally agree with you, they look to being taking a very welcome first step into getting out of their stubbornness with the next update.

True, it's a welcoming change from their signature radio silence and stubbornness in GTA Online. Thing is, alongside re-balancing cards, adjusting the responsiveness of player movement and weapon aiming is something they can do any time, but the ability system is the main cause behind imbalances and distaste towards PvP, and it won't go away anytime soon.

[RyuNova]

This movement change rubbish, I seriously hope they dont drastically change the weight of our characters or movement. I really dont want it to go back to how floaty GTAO feels. GTAO feels like a last gen game while RDR2/O feels like a modern game. Please dont change it to cater to the idiots who want it to play like Fortnite and DOOM had a crack baby.

 

They already made the drawing weapons, throwing dynamite and fire bottles cater to idiots.

[Gleeman Vox]

55 minutes ago, RyuNova said:

This movement change rubbish, I seriously hope they dont drastically change the weight of our characters or movement. I really dont want it to go back to how floaty GTAO feels. GTAO feels like a last gen game while RDR2/O feels like a modern game. Please dont change it to cater to the idiots who want it to play like Fortnite and DOOM had a crack baby.

 

They already made the drawing weapons, throwing dynamite and fire bottles cater to idiots.

We won't know till it releases, but i hope it's things like not rag dolling off of ridiculously small ledges, balancing combat between braindead third-person players and fast strafing first-person players, or sliding off ridiculously small hills

 

"They already made the drawing weapons, throwing dynamite and fire bottles cater to idiots."

 

Disagree, this was a needed change for PVP. Why would I use a sidearm if i'm going to take forever to pull it out anyways?

Edited September 7, 2019 by Gleeman Vox

[Shane_Dbns]

It's time to get rid of lock on, Rockstar. You can do all the nerfs and buffs you want but the problems will still persist because the core mechanic is so archaic.

 

 

[wehweh01]

59 minutes ago, Shane_Dbns said:

It's time to get rid of lock on, Rockstar. You can do all the nerfs and buffs you want but the problems will still persist because the core mechanic is so archaic.

 

 

I'd like that but there's probably 90% of the playerbase that prefers aimbot. If anything they'd probably want more casual means of engaging in PVP. 

[Jason]

8 minutes ago, wehweh01 said:

I'd like that but there's probably 90% of the playerbase that prefers aimbot. If anything they'd probably want more casual means of engaging in PVP. 

"Fortnite’s player count is closing in on 250 million" - as of 170 days ago

 

Fortnite is the most casual mainstream game out there right now. It doesn't have lock on.

 

The idea that casuals prefer lock on is a complete myth.

[wehweh01]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

"Fortnite’s player count is closing in on 250 million" - as of 170 days ago

 

Fortnite is the most casual mainstream game out there right now. It doesn't have lock on.

 

The idea that casuals prefer lock on is a complete myth.

I don't think you know our own playerbase. Also, PC has no aim assist unless you use controller. Fortnite on console has aim assist.

[Jason]

Just now, wehweh01 said:

I don't think you know our own playerbase.

No game has a completely unique playerbase, there's a sh*t ton of crossover. It's not even that GTAO/RDO playerbases crossover entirely with Fortnite either, there's Call of Duty, Overwatch, Rainbow Six, all these other shooters, all of them have free aim.

 

RDO and GTAO are the exception among shooting games and the aiming along with the controls are one of the most criticised parts about the games.

 

Point is, there are very few players out there that aren't comfortable with free aim. It's a complete myth that casual players can't aim.

 

1 minute ago, wehweh01 said:

Also, PC has no aim assist unless you use controller. Fortnite on console has aim assist.

I think you're confusing aim assist and lock on. You still have to aim.

[Gleeman Vox]

20 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Point is, there are very few players out there that aren't comfortable with free aim. It's a complete myth that casual players can't aim.

Yeah but Red Dead has god awful free aim and we need to see if the movement update even changes that  to allow free aim to exist

Edited September 7, 2019 by Gleeman Vox

[Jason]

Just now, Gleeman Vox said:

Yeah but Red Dead has god awful free aim and we need to see if the movement update even changes that  to allow free aim to exist

Oh yea definitely, I aint saying it would be as simple as flicking the switch but it would a move that's well worth the effort IMO.

[The Shakermaker]

I'm sure I emptied my cattleman into a rival and they still survived to kill me. 

[wehweh01]

32 minutes ago, Gleeman Vox said:

Yeah but Red Dead has god awful free aim and we need to see if the movement update even changes that  to allow free aim to exist

 

29 minutes ago, Jason said:

Oh yea definitely, I aint saying it would be as simple as flicking the switch but it would a move that's well worth the effort IMO.

 

27 minutes ago, The Shakermaker said:

I'm sure I emptied my cattleman into a rival and they still survived to kill me. 

Freeaim is just fine. I literally kill players everyday with no aim assist. I don't use Paint It Black for PVP. 

 

Turn the aim assist off and use Slippery Bastard. If you don't have Slippery simply turn on Defensive mode the moment a player shoots or kills you. 

[Gleeman Vox]

43 minutes ago, wehweh01 said:

 

 

Freeaim is just fine. I literally kill players everyday with no aim assist.

And how many of those players are abusing first person strafing?

[GEИESIS]

7 minutes ago, Gleeman Vox said:

And how many of those players are abusing first person strafing?

Pretty much every high level players I have come across in Showdown. Some few don't but majority I have played against do.

[The Dedito Gae]

1 hour ago, wehweh01 said:

Freeaim is just fine. I literally kill players everyday with no aim assist. I don't use Paint It Black for PVP. 

Thats because you use SB, almost no one knows how to counter that card less alone free aim in this game- is just zigzagging with a shotgun/two mausers.

Its like bragging you just beat everyone at the local baby care, free aim in this game its pooppppp

 

Game wasnt designed for online but for offline storymode and it shows, gameplay its heavily flawed to the core since it released.

Edited September 8, 2019 by The Deadite

[Happy Hunter]

More or less all of my free aim is sniping from some little corner of the showdown map far off. Which it should be noted is very brave and courageous. Can't really speak for free aim outside of that, would just get painted quickly anyway. I do think it would feel quite clunky though.

 

Often when I'm attacked in defensive mode, I'll literally just run around in circles around them.

[ThaBirdCoot]

Unless you are of a level to use slippery and stay in dead eye all day in showdowns, there is no way to compete with "skilled" lock on players by free aiming. Forget about how good you might be, some cards & tonics your opponent uses will still cancel that in a heartbeat. Pve is kinda ok for free aim once you are used to how the different repeaters, revolvers and rifles work but it can be frustrating when enemies overun you. Mostly you will need use of a shotgun when cornered anyways because in typical R* fashion, for lack of having intelligent AI they will just aimbot rapid fire your arse 1 time outta 5. 

[wehweh01]

20 minutes ago, The Deadite said:

Thats because you use SB, almost no one knows how to counter that card less alone free aim in this game- is just zigzagging with a shotgun/two mausers.

Its like bragging you just beat everyone at the local baby care, free aim in this game its pooppppp

 

Game wasnt designed for online but for offline storymode and it shows, gameplay its heavily flawed to the core since it released.

I'll admit I generally engage players with whatever weapon they are using. Most people attack me with shotguns. Very rarely a revolver. 

 

My preferred weapon is a single LeMat or Cattleman and I tend to rely on headshots. As I stated before, I do not use aim assist.

[CMCSAVAGE]

Boy, did this thread take a wrong turn somewhere.