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Hudawg

Weapons rebalancing to reduce reliance on headshots as the primary kill method in PvP?

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Hudawg

Brought this up already in the Update topic.   But it got buried in the hype of new content.

 

But what does..  "weapons rebalancing to reduce reliance on headshots as the primary kill method in PvP" even mean?     This has me kind of worried because R* tends to get things backwards a lot.

 

Reliance on head shots?  Head shots = Instant kill.  Hard Lock Auto aim = Easy targeting.   PIB = faster bloom/no aim bobble.

 

Its not the "HEAD SHOTS" that's the issue, its the auto aim, especially when combined with PIB.  If there was a free aim mode, head shots would be a lot less easier to pull off on a instant/constant basis.    And since R* didn't mentioned auto aim.     What is going to happen with this weapon rebalance?

 

Body shots instant kills?   I mean, the only way to reduce to the reliance of head shots is to make every part of the other players body an instant kill.  

 

I have a bad feeling about this.  

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Lonely-Martin

So long as a nip in the butt don't mean insta-kill, lol.

 

I imagine critical hits like under the arms or the groin might be more damaging though. I dunno, I heard that in LOTR when they're told to aim under the armour. 😁

 

sh*t! Does that mean armour coming too? 🤔

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ivarblaauw

I hope they'll make vital parts deadly. Neckshots and heart should be instakill, whereas the gut should give you bloodloss, resulting in death within 5 seconds. 

 

I think this way, people would also try trickshots and bring back some popularity to RDO...

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Hudawg
6 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

I hope they'll make vital parts deadly. Neckshots and heart should be instakill, whereas the gut should give you bloodloss, resulting in death within 5 seconds. 

 

The problem with this is, it would make it even more easier to kill someone.  Which is not exactly what the game needs in terms of pvp.

 

R* doesn't seem to be addressing the core issues with pvp.  Instead, looking at the effects caused by the pvp they have implemented.

 

I mean, id be all for what you typed about vital parts being deadly.  But not if people have hard locking (in most cases WIDE setting) auto aim.  Even with vital parts being deadly. Its just easier to lock on, flick up.  Especially when combined with PIB>

 

They already tried to nerf the auto aim on head shots last update.  It really didn't do anything.  Players don't lock on and take 5 seconds to nail a head shot.   So im not sure what R* tried to accomplish the 1st time around.

 

The nerf to all dead eye cards really just put PIB on the top shelf in terms of faster head shots.

 

 

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IamCourtney

Maybe they'll just lower the headshot damage modifier such that most guns don't one-hit kill anymore? And/or maybe the new ability cards they've mentioned offer more headhot protection in certain circumstances?

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Jason

This is a scary change tbh.

 

It's literally only an issue because of the lock on + flick system, that should be what they remove instead of going down this route and nerfing what should be the most difficult place to hit.

 

If this change means everyone is going to be two hits to kill then it's gonna be yikes.

 

Also I hope it's not like the Varmint rifle changes where it nerfed the gun in PvE as well.

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Hudawg
8 minutes ago, Jason said:

This is a scary change tbh.

 

It's literally only an issue because of the lock on + flick system, that should be what they remove instead of going down this route and nerfing what should be the most difficult place to hit.

 

If this change means everyone is going to be two hits to kill then it's gonna be yikes.

 

Also I hope it's not like the Varmint rifle changes where it nerfed the gun in PvE as well.

Ya...

 

I mean.  They could remove WIDE lock on and force everyone to use the same NORMAL auto aim setting.  Since that has almost a full screen lock on radius. 

 

And have only auto aim lock on to the body.  Once you move the aimer lock on should break.     And remove the PIB bloom/aim bobbly bypass.  That would cut back the headshots slightly.

 

But if R* goes the opposite way and makes body shots do more damage. Players will die even quicker.  Which I doubt the people complaining about head shots want.

 

 

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DarksunDaFirst

I'm guessing that one of the main things they'll address is the Varmint Rifle - autoaiming with that thing (with or without PIB) is one of the main balancing issues.  You have other more deadly rifles, but for some reason at-range where their power is supposed to balance it out - the Varmint Rifle is still argubly the deadliest rifle in the game.  Now I'm not going to make real-life comparasions, but honestly for game balance reasons the Varmint Rifle broke the balance since Day 1.  The fact that if I get a body shot with a bolt action at range and somehow it doesn't make you flinch enough that I can't get a second shot in while you nip off a flinchless headshot is a problem.

Body shots with the long non-scope rifles should inflict more damage.

Edited by DarksunDaFirst

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Daleificent

I feel like shots on body parts with some debuff would be a way to go.

 

Keep it as it, headshots are insta.

 

We already get an accuracy penalty when were being 'surpressed' or w/e you'd call it but honestly not that big a deal. Works well to keep you in cover a bit if it's happening to you.

Maybe you're hit in the arm, and the accuracy debuff is a tad more severe and last 2-3 seconds longer. Perhaps it mimics being entirely out of dead-eye instead of a sway? Still timed though.

Hit in the leg? Sprint is gone, or reduced.

None of those should be insane, if you're confident in your ability you should be able to compensate for the debuffs to a fair degree but not enough to entirely negate them. A couple seconds is really all you should get on a debuff to keep it fair for both sides.

 

Only worry at that point is; how easy would it be to do these with auto-aim?

 

I feel like it'd give newer players a rewarding edge against cards on high rank cowpokes. Never Without One? Hit them in the arm, make it harder for them aim and use body shots while you have a couple second edge, for example. Or if they have the card that reduces damage while sprinting, shoot them in the leg and they can't, pump them full of bullets after. No idea.

 

Could be a dumb idea. (Possibly still better then what R* has planned. Hah!)

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jamsroob

I hope they're gonna make headshots do less damage and bodyshots do more damage…

 

For me that could mean I could loose the Never Without On card and I don't have to wear a hat anymore..Also gives room to equip one of the new cards, if there's a good one....

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Van_Hellsing

Headshots are way too OP. With the aimbot, gunfights are a farce. I shot an enemy five times in the chest and he would laugh it off. 

 

Then I get shot in the head with a varmint rifle from a mile away and it's an instant kill. 

 

The one ability card Never Without One that countered it, got seriously nerfed. 

 

I suspect that the weapon bloom will be increased. 

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Jason

Bodyshot damage shouldn't be touched frankly. Bodyshots are the default place we aim at when we hit LT, why should we be buffing that location?

 

Like I said earlier, this is all a problem of their own design, that design being their insistence on persisting with this lock on aiming. Remove that, improve the free aim controls and PvP balancing would be in a way, way better place.

 

Cause all nerfing headshot damage is gonna do is make the time to kill increase, meaning people will become bullet spongy which is not really what I want in RDO personally.

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CMCSAVAGE

 "weapons rebalancing to reduce reliance on headshots as the primary kill method in PvP"

 

The only thing this suggest to me, is that certain weapons are getting a buff to where it's a 2 bodyshot kill. This isn't going to affect headshots at all. A headshot will still be a 1 shot kill, unless someone has that stupid hat card. 

 

 

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Tasty_Pasta

I agree with @CMCSAVAGE, I don't see it as anything other than buffing the damage of some guns.  Which I think is warranted, because having to dish out 4+ body shots sometimes is just ridiculous.

 

On one hand I really just want them to go all free aim and that would solve all of the PvP problems.  And on the other hand I love using auto aim because God knows I'd never been able to hunt birds without it.

 

The real problem with the game is that for some reason the free aim control in RDR2 is stiff and total garbage.  I've never been able to get it feeling good in my hands since release day, especially compared to GTA where the free aim feels super smooth.  And it's magnified by that fact that there are no automatic weapons, so accuracy is of utmost importance.  I'm hoping the incoming "dramatic improvements to player control with quicker and more responsive movement across all phases of combat" means that they are revamping to aiming to no suck so much, but I'm not holding my breath.

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RyuNova

Remove the ability to flick up immediately after locking on. You are locked to centre mass for a few seconds before you can flick up. Or make it so that the "lock and flick" technique can only be used from very short distance.

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Hudawg
3 hours ago, Tasty_Pasta said:

 

 

The real problem with the game is that for some reason the free aim control in RDR2 is stiff and total garbage.

I find the actual free aim and shooting mechanics pretty damn good in free aim. Its the 3rd person movement thats clunky and stiff.

 

Guess to each their own. But i think we all agree there should a proper lobby type for what aim people choose to play with.

 

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Tasty_Pasta
17 minutes ago, Hudawg said:

I find the actual free aim and shooting mechanics pretty damn good in free aim. Its the 3rd person movement thats clunky and stiff.

Certainly the movement is stiff and delayed, that's been the Rockstar model since GTAIV.  But I'm always shocked when I go back to GTAV or Max Payne 3 and I can actually hit enemies.

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Happy Hunter

They said something similar last update, and it didn't seem to do anything at all.

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coach_wargo

They've painted themselves into a corner with the stupid magic card system. Most of the PvP issues could easily be resolved if the magic cards were scrapped. And not separating auto aim and and free aim is one of the most boneheaded ideas I've ever seen. 

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Pocket Fox
9 hours ago, Jason said:

This is a scary change tbh.

 

It's literally only an issue because of the lock on + flick system, that should be what they remove instead of going down this route and nerfing what should be the most difficult place to hit.

 

If this change means everyone is going to be two hits to kill then it's gonna be yikes.

 

Also I hope it's not like the Varmint rifle changes where it nerfed the gun in PvE as well.

The bird population laughs at us now.

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RyuNova
2 hours ago, coach_wargo said:

They've painted themselves into a corner with the stupid magic card system. Most of the PvP issues could easily be resolved if the magic cards were scrapped. And not separating auto aim and and free aim is one of the most boneheaded ideas I've ever seen. 

 

Paint It Black and Slippery Bastard can suck a fat one.

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Hudawg
2 hours ago, coach_wargo said:

They've painted themselves into a corner with the stupid magic card system. Most of the PvP issues could easily be resolved if the magic cards were scrapped. And not separating auto aim and and free aim is one of the most boneheaded ideas I've ever seen. 

Ya, i totally agree.

 

And being able to hold 100's of tonics and cooked animals is also an issue on top of what you mentioned

 

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wehweh01

This change is literally what it should have been from the start. It's exactly how guns are in GTAO. Headshots with Snipers will be instant death. Everything else will not be instant such as the Varmint Rifle, Bolt Action, and Springfield. Higher penalties on Shotguns, Repeaters, and Handguns. Penalties are due to range though so all headshots will still kill instantly up close. I don't see anything wrong with that. 

 

Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass about Autoaimer pvp. Definitely wouldn't mind some acknowledgement from Rockstar regarding balancing pvp for Expert Aimers.

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CMCSAVAGE
11 minutes ago, wehweh01 said:

Everything else will not be instant such as the Varmint Rifle, Bolt Action, and Springfield.

I beg to differ. A headshot will still be a headshot. It's just not going to be 3 to 4 body shots for a kill with whatever weapon is going to to be "rebalanced".

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wehweh01
29 minutes ago, CMCSAVAGE said:

I beg to differ. A headshot will still be a headshot. It's just not going to be 3 to 4 body shots for a kill with whatever weapon is going to to be "rebalanced".

We'll see I guess. We don't even have exact details. It's all speculation at this point.

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CosmicBuffalo

Maybe they will just make it so you cant auto aim on players, because thats the reason you can auto aim the head...the only problem, the tackle, its such a curse even if things went free aim, the tackle would have to be removed from those lobbies, or 1 shot deaths would have to be a thing. 

 

It could be that you can still auto aim but if you move the thumb stick at all it breaks the lock on and becomes free aim, so currently if the person is moving, the lock still holds to the center but all you have to do is move up unless they are running sideways from you just move up slightly and its a head shot even if the person is running full speed, because the auto aim holds the center for you.  Just turn on slippery bastard once you have locked on and try the head shots, it breaks the lock on and you actually have to follow the target with the stick. 

 

Again for all those who want free aim lobbies, trust me, its a blessing in disguise because that tackle is going nowhere...its annoying as hell in gun rush.

Edited by CosmicBuffalo

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wehweh01
43 minutes ago, CosmicBuffalo said:

Maybe they will just make it so you cant auto aim on players, because thats the reason you can auto aim the head...the only problem, the tackle, its such a curse even if things went free aim, the tackle would have to be removed from those lobbies, or 1 shot deaths would have to be a thing. 

 

It could be that you can still auto aim but if you move the thumb stick at all it breaks the lock on and becomes free aim, so currently if the person is moving, the lock still holds to the center but all you have to do is move up unless they are running sideways from you just move up slightly and its a head shot even if the person is running full speed, because the auto aim holds the center for you.  Just turn on slippery bastard once you have locked on and try the head shots, it breaks the lock on and you actually have to follow the target with the stick. 

 

Again for all those who want free aim lobbies, trust me, its a blessing in disguise because that tackle is going nowhere...its annoying as hell in gun rush.

Tackling isn't nearly as bad as dealing with Paint It Black players. The best way to deal with a tackler is running away until you have enough distance and your reticle pre-aimed to let loose some hipfire.

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Xtf
10 hours ago, Happy Hunter said:

They said something similar last update, and it didn't seem to do anything at all.

Looks like I'm the only one who noticed a difference with the last update, I've had to completely change the way I play after the changes to headshots with the last update and it now seems I'm more likely to get a kill shot when I think I should have missed.  I actually quite liked the weapon sway but when they threw in seperate camera sway as well it completely recked the way I've played for the last decade (rdr1 and gtas).  It does make sense that running has an effect on your aim but the swing seems totally wild compared to standing still or even shooting whilst riding. 

 

I wish they would just scrap the PvP mechanics from this game and import the gameplay from redemption 1.  Any 2 shots with a bolt action would kill another player but you would normally have to pickup a bolt action first.  Modes had limited ammo and weapons and the showdowns at the start of each match were brilliant.  I don't remember having any complaints with the first game and was hoping for more of the same. 

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tonko
12 hours ago, coach_wargo said:

They've painted themselves into a corner with the stupid magic card system. Most of the PvP issues could easily be resolved if the magic cards were scrapped. And not separating auto aim and and free aim is one of the most boneheaded ideas I've ever seen. 

Amen.

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RyuNova

Remove the Ability Card system from PvP. Let players fight on pure skill alone instead of using the same cheating loadout every match. Its just people flopping around with Slippery Bastard and/or instantly going into Paint It Black. I f*cking HATE combat rolling in GTAO and Slippery Bastard in RDO.

Edited by RyuNova

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