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Mister Pink

Mindhunter | David Fincher | Netflix

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Mister Pink

Making a thread for this as it seems there are now a few of us watching this and we're spamming up the TV Series Chat thread.

 

mindhunter_s02_holt_mccallany_3_embed.jp

 

Mindhunter is a Netflix original produced (and many episodes directed) by David Fincher (Fight Club, Seven, Zodiac, The Social Network, The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo). From Wiki: Mindhunter revolves around FBI agents Holden Ford (Jonathan Groff) and Bill Tench (Holt McCallany), along with psychologist Wendy Carr (Anna Torv), who originate the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit within the Training Division at the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia. They interview imprisoned serial killers to understand how they think, with the hope of applying this knowledge to solve ongoing cases.

 

The interesting thing is that the show is based on real people. The serial killers in the show are based on real serial killers like Son of Sam, Ed Kemper, BTK, Charles Manson etc.  If you enjoy The Silence of The Lambs, the "formula" borrows heavily from it. Interviewing psychopaths to learn about them and their behaviours to try profile serial killers. 

 

Series 1 has an Critics/Audience rating of 97% and 95% respective rating on Rotten Tomatoes.

It's got an 8.6 rating on IMDB

Zero negative reviews on Metacritic, although one 'mixed' review that messes with the aggregate.  

 

We're now into the second season. There's talk that they want 5 seasons of this. 

 

Below are just some stills from the show. No spoilers, really. Just stills. 

 


667-mindhunter-107-unit-01740r5-15530177


MV5BMjc1MDUxNWEtN2I4Ni00OWQ1LWFiZWYtZDIw

 

MV5BMDY5NGRjMGItMTQxOS00ZmNhLTg1N2EtMDlm

 

MV5BNjY1ZGM5ZjQtZmY4Yi00NzBhLWJmNTktY2Yx

 

MV5BOTRiYzhhMTgtMzE2Yi00ZmJhLWFkYjMtNWMz

 

MV5BMWRkOGEyZDQtMDQ2OS00N2RhLTg4MmYtOTZh

 

 

Edited by Mister Pink
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Craigsters

I'll only have internet and netflix and a digital antenna  in November , so I'll diffidently be watching this show along with other netflix shows on my  netflix list

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Laker23

I'd expect there to be confirmation whether there's going to be a 3rd season very soon. 

 

I know Netflix apparently judge shows by how many people have watched the whole season within a couple of weeks, and then again within a month.

 

Fingers crossed because I need the full 5 seasons of this brilliant show.

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Mister Pink
9 hours ago, Craigsters said:

I'll only have internet and netflix and a digital antenna  in November , so I'll diffidently be watching this show along with other netflix shows on my  netflix list

Excellent. There's plenty of great content on Netflix. I find I do with it fine nowadays. Although finding the time can be hard. 

 

2 hours ago, Laker23 said:

I know Netflix apparently judge shows by how many people have watched the whole season within a couple of weeks, and then again within a month.

That's interesting. Where did you learn about those metrics? I'm not surprised as I often hear or seemingly often hear announcements for another series, fresh after the current series. 

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Laker23
6 hours ago, Mister Pink said:

That's interesting. Where did you learn about those metrics? I'm not surprised as I often hear or seemingly often hear announcements for another series, fresh after the current series. 

I've seen quite a few people working in the TV industry suggest that's how they usually measure the success and ultimately decide whether to renew or not.

 

No idea if it's gospel but it's certainly the consensus and easy to believe. If the show or actors get award nominations that certainly makes a big impact, too.

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Lonely-Martin

I really enjoyed this and along with the Mrs, we just crashed through both seasons, lol. Compelling and I couldn't take my mind off it really, lol. Especially when with the chap playing Ed Kemper, chilling stuff. Season 2 was equally impressive too, I really like the Tench character though that's not to say I don't with Ford of course as he's gripping to watch at times (in season one particularly, he had some Dutch-like qualities from The Shield - That curiosity of the mindset of those he investigates/learns of, you know?). Both are fantastic, as are all the actors as it's a very well acted show indeed. (We really are spoilt for choice with today's level of acting IMHO).

 

Can't wait to see where they go with this, I hope it gets the five seasons mentioned and the story fills out as it feels like a well planned and deliberate thing with what could grow and do wonder what other cases they use from IRL as I didn't know much of the main case in season 2, so hope for more than just the 'big guns'. Although, as said above, those here are very well done and take nothing away from it all.

 

(Proper hard to not talk spoilers there, lol - Really is a show that can spark good conversation).

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Mister Pink

I'm still about 7 episodes in to season 2. Man, every scene is like painting. It's just so aesthetically pleasing. 

 

Really enjoying how this season is unfolding. Without spoiling too much, Holden is sticking by his guns by his profiling, it's kind of the first time their new work has been put to the test. Holden is quietly confident in his profiling, he's not making too much noise about it but everyone is scrambling around, desperate to find a suspect. Like when you loose your keys, you start looking in strange places. Holden, is waiting to find someone that fits his profile.  I can't wait to further see how it unravels. 

 

On 9/22/2019 at 3:53 AM, Lonely-Martin said:

(Proper hard to not talk spoilers there, lol - Really is a show that can spark good conversation).

Absolutely. I'm going to finish this season this weekend and then I'll be back.. with spoiler tags!

 

Also, here is the man that Holden is loosely based on. 

 

holden-ford-john-e-douglas-fbi-mindhunte

 

John E. Douglas. 

 

From Wiki:

 

Quote

Douglas joined the FBI in 1970 and his first assignment was in Detroit, Michigan. In the field, he served as a sniper on the local FBI SWAT team and later became a hostage negotiator. He transferred to the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit (BSU) in 1977 where he taught hostage negotiation and applied criminal psychology at the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia to new FBI special agents, field agents, and police officers from all over the United States. He created and managed the FBI's Criminal Profiling Program and was later promoted to unit chief of the Investigative Support Unit, a division of the FBI's National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime (NCAVC).[1][2][3]

 

While traveling around the country providing instruction to police, Douglas began interviewing serial killers and other violent sex offenders at various prisons. He interviewed some of the most notable violent criminals in recent history as part of the study, including David Berkowitz, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Charles Manson, Lynette Fromme, Sara Jane Moore, Edmund Kemper, James Earl Ray, Sirhan Sirhan, Richard Speck, Donald Harvey, Gary Ridgway and Joseph Paul Franklin. He used the information gleaned from these interviews in the book Sexual Homicide: Patterns and Motives, followed by the Crime Classification Manual (CCM). Douglas later received two Thomas Jefferson Awards for academic excellence from the University of Virginia for his work on the study.

It's like of like reality is stranger than fiction. Would be hard to imagine Holden being a sniper on the local SWAT team. 

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Lonely-Martin

@Mister Pink. Just watched a documentary series that had John Douglas' name pop up and I was like 'that's the Manhunter chap' and saw it was once I checked in here, lol.

 

Anyway, sorry if the wrong thread but have you seen much True Crime documentaries? I caught Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills. (John Douglas isn't in this much, and just watching these I had Minghumter in mind before I saw his name there).

 

Wow! I'd never heard of this case. There are 3 doc's to this but each came out at staggered (1996, 2000, and 2011), with further follow ups to this case over the years. I don't want to spoil anything but if you haven't seen this and it's something you might be interested in, it's fascinating.

 

I highly recommend not looking into the case beforehand as for me, this was so engaging as I knew nothing and feel that would really work best here. It is unfortunately not a pleasant case with some upsetting scenes and such, but I feel not gratuitous too, discretion advised. It really highlights aspects Mindhunter covers and helps show why people like John Douglas needed to open new doors to thinking and investigating/profiling, and the justice system as a whole.

 

Just had to mention it as it was so engaging like this Netflix series.

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Mister Pink
11 hours ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Anyway, sorry if the wrong thread but have you seen much True Crime documentaries? I caught Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills. (John Douglas isn't in this much, and just watching these I had Mindhunter in mind before I saw his name there).

Is he in those docs? Yes, I happened to see them. I was lucky to have watched them back in 2009/20010, so when the 3rd one came out, it was like a revelation. I didn't expect to see a third one and the fact that the first two came out in '96 and 2000, it was just pure co-incidence that I watched them at the time and then a third one came out. 

 

I haven't watched them since then so, I'd love to re-watch them. Probably one of the most engaging documentaries I've ever watched. The fact that HBO had full access to the court proceedings was mental. And since then the judge has gone on to say he regrets the decision to let HBO in. 

 

It will be a good for me to re-watch them, knowing the John Douglas was involved. Kinda makes Mindhunter more real. Bit like watching films where GTA got inspiration. Makes the entertainment that slight bit more realistic, in a fun way. 

 

For anyone else reading this topic, I'll leave the trailer below for these powerful docs.  Just remembered that Warp (the music and film label) put this out in the UK. Warp Films put out Four Lions, This Is England, Dead Man's Shoes and '71. All sublime films. And their music label puts out Aphex Twin, Boards Of Canada, Brian Eno, Flying Lotus, Autechre etc. Fantastic label. Some times you can just do a random pick of one of their artists and strike gold. When I learned they had their logo on this documentary, along with HBO, you know it's gold. 

 

 

On Topic: Just finished Episode 8 last night. Man,  don't know what to say. Each episode is just golden. 

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Lonely-Martin

@Mister Pink. I didn't want to say where John Douglas appears, but expect to see him later into things in an advisory role offering thoughts on things as the controversy grew. I was watching and saw the name and thought 'Mister Pink mentioned him, I'm sure. Isn't tgat the Mindhunter chap' lol.

 

Just added weight to Mindhunters direction as the character grows. Even once retired, the man can offer great insight.

 

And Warp records released a good few tracks I remember. Mostly Aphex Twin but I think some LFO or other electronic/dance/experimental stuff. I think they released Pac-man from an Aphex Twin alias. Also read this was the first/only to be allowed Metallica music to feature too. 

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Mister Pink
On 10/9/2019 at 2:01 PM, Lonely-Martin said:

And Warp records released a good few tracks I remember. Mostly Aphex Twin but I think some LFO or other electronic/dance/experimental stuff. I think they released Pac-man from an Aphex Twin alias. Also read this was the first/only to be allowed Metallica music to feature too

You're dead right. You know your shiz!

 

So, finally finished Mindhunter 2. 

 

Easily one of the best shows I've watched thus far. Only criticism I can say about this show was a slight technical error on the colour grading. Under some light, where I suspect the grading over tungsten light, made the psychologist one slightly green looking. It didn't detract from the show at all, just a minor criticism. 

 

The finale reminded me of The Wire. *Mild spoilers* when a case gets resolved, maybe not the way they hoped or imagined and the severe lack of sense of achievement after. There's a kind of deflation. It's like anything in life though. The journey to reaching our goals gives us purpose and a sense of pride and working to achievement. Once you get there, it maybe be satisfying for a moment but there's usually a come down. What now? Like finishing Uni. For 4 years you know your life is set. What you need to do. Essentially, you've booked out the next few years of your life. Then it's over. This was a big theme for McNulty in The Wire. It was almost a high for him going after the Barksdale Organization. You get a couple of small wins, but ultimately it leaves you feeling hollow. I really got that sense with Holden. 

 

I didn't look up and was unfamiliar with the Kansas City Child Murders. It's very sad. And the show is also similar in tone to The Wire how it, conveys well, the anguish and distrust the black community shared for law enforcement. It also shows how hard it was for police to do their work, the politics from the local mayor, how their scientific approach has to overcome local outrage, local sentiment. "Are you looking at the KKK?" "It can't be a black male committing these murders" "KKK kills black people" - but all their research from serial killers indicated that serials killers rarely if at all target anyone beyond their own race. It's all very interesting and makes for compelling viewing. It's not preaching to us, who is right or who is wrong. It's apolitical. It's nuanced. Things are more complex than we think when it comes to catching criminals like that. And it's hard for people not to be emotionally driven. We're human after all. 

 

I would give this show a 10/10. I think if anyone likes the big HBO crime dramas like The Sopranos, The Wire, Boardwalk Empire where it's not wall to wall action but very thought-out, intelligent, well-produced, tight-script, tight dialogue, absolutely very cinematic looking, then they'll love this show. 

 

 

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Mister Pink

Mindhunter put in indefinite hold. :( 

 

Such a pity. Apparently due to producer David Finchers scheduling and pursuits of his first Netflix film. It's not cancelled but they released the actors from their contractual obligations. Fincher said it  would be unfair to keep the actors contractually on hold while Fincher pursued other projects. 

 

https://www.thewrap.com/mindhunter-netflix-releases-cast-but-show-not-canceled/

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Jason

Man that sucks, I really want to see them wrap the show up with the BTK killers capture. Hopefully this is just a temporary thing, it's a great show.

 

Saying that, it is nice to see Netflix and also HBO with Watchmen not push with further seasons if the showrunners aren't up for it for whatever reason, I'm sure many networks would simply find a replacement.

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Mister Pink
12 hours ago, Jason said:

Man that sucks, I really want to see them wrap the show up with the BTK killers capture. Hopefully this is just a temporary thing, it's a great show.

 

My thoughts exactly, bud. 

 

12 hours ago, Jason said:

Saying that, it is nice to see Netflix and also HBO with Watchmen not push with further seasons if the showrunners aren't up for it for whatever reason, I'm sure many networks would simply find a replacement.

That's a great point, actually. Never looked at it like that. 

 

Fincher is actually leaving to work on his first Netflix film. I'm going to put my conspiratorial hat on now. What if Netflix weren't happy with the audience numbers and because they have a good relationship with Fincher, then enticed Fincher away to do a film for them instead? Netflix might say "Look, the show is highly rated and is getting critical praise but there aren't enough people watching it to justify the budget. We're not cancelling you but you can do this film for us instead. If the numbers pick up for Mindhunter, it could be a sleeper hit, much like The Wire. Poor audience viewings but word-of-mouth success made it huge. Thinking too much in to it! 😛 

 

Just realized, first Scorsese, now David Fincher making Netflix films. Can Netflix be any more legit now? :D 

Edited by Mister Pink
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Jason
9 minutes ago, Mister Pink said:

Fincher is actually leaving to work on his first Netflix film. I'm going to put my conspiratorial hat on now. What if Netflix weren't happy with the audience numbers and because they have a good relationship with Fincher, then enticed Fincher away to do a film for them instead?

You know, I aint saying I believe that theory but at the same time, I don't disbelieve it either. Mindhunter is one of Netflix's best shows but it struggled to generate any sort of buzz on the 'net. Would make sense that they want to keep a talented creator like that on board but perhaps onto new things if Mindhunter isn't bringing in the numbers they need/want.

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Laker23

One of my favourite new shows in recent years so a huge bummer, but not at all surprising. I'd be very surprised to see this ever come back, despite no official cancellation.

 

Everything I've read suggests Fincher found the shooting exhausting and he much prefers making movies, anyway. As good as the show is, it's not like it had a huge following, so bringing it back in 4-5 years doesn't make much sense for Netflix, unless Fincher decides to give it closure.

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Yokelsson
On 1/16/2020 at 8:06 PM, Mister Pink said:

Mindhunter put in indefinite hold. :( 

 

Such a pity. Apparently due to producer David Finchers scheduling and pursuits of his first Netflix film. It's not cancelled but they released the actors from their contractual obligations. Fincher said it  would be unfair to keep the actors contractually on hold while Fincher pursued other projects. 

 

https://www.thewrap.com/mindhunter-netflix-releases-cast-but-show-not-canceled/

This sucks. It's the best show on Netflix. They took some creative liberties with some of the serial killers, but it's all good fun. There were some suspicious aspects of the Son of Sam case that they could have used instead of going the route that they did. He could have been more than a footnote in the show.

 

Fun fact: my final thesis in university, many years ago, was on serial killers and I've read pretty much everything written by John E. Douglas and Robert K. Ressler (Bill Tench is based on Ressler), as part of research.

 

Another fun fact: Ressler didn't truly coin the term serial killer. But humans tend to think alike, so it's entirely possible that he thought of it on his own separately from whoever came up with it first. First recorded use of the term was way back in 1930's in Germany. Ernst August Ferdinand Gennat, the director of Berlin criminal police, used the term serienmorder, referring to Peter Kurten - the Vampire of Dusseldorf. As for the English version of the term, it was used in 1950 in the book The Complete Detective, by Richard Hughes.

Edited by DareYokel
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Lonely-Martin

Another Deadwood, lol. Gonna leave us hanging after a couple of great seasons. But I get it's a numbers game, it's a shame but hopefully it'll garner a fan base more in time as it's found and could be returned to but we'll see.

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Craigsters
Posted (edited)

 

 

I finished mindhunter season  2 the other day, this  is a damn great show, can't wait for next season  to start, that  guilt song is stuck in my head now

Edited by Craigsters
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Mister Pink
4 hours ago, Craigsters said:

I finished mindhunter season  2 the other day, this  is a damn great show, can't wait for next season  to start, that  guilt song is stuck in my head now

Glad you enjoyed. I remember you were saying you hadn't got Neflix yet but you were going to get it and watch it. Thats cool. 

 

Also that Marianne Faithful song is hauntingly beautiful. Glad you posted it because I loved it in the moment but forgot to look it up. It's now added to my playlist. 

 

Charles Manson's music made it in too. 

 

 

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